How many of you got sad over Mona's death? [Archive]

Hatch

06-06-2002, 08:03 PM

I'm with Qender on this. I hope she's alive. Her and Max both lost family and need each other's support. Max's family getting slaughtered was a shock but that pulled me into the game... Max loses his family and makes them all pay... That cut scene of him standing on top of the Aesir building at the beggining lets you know that justice was served. You just couldn't tie it all together until the end. The level with the Hallways, his wife screaming and child crying gave me chills. What a great story! Can't wait for the next one!

Loc Dog

06-06-2002, 08:13 PM

i definately think she is still alive, they left it way to open for possibilities for her to be dead, i think if she had been killed max woulda gone done and picked up her body or something for a moment, and slightly changed that scene.

Kalki

06-07-2002, 03:43 AM

Didn't she get shot in the head? Or maybe the bullet grazed it.

Anyway, I don't see what the big deal over Mona is? She meets Max, drugs him and he gets beaten up for it. He sees evidence of her prescence at the manor. Then she gets shot at the Aesir building. She didn't make an impact on me at all. Not much screen time was devoted to her. Max starts laying it on thick the moment they meet?? I know it's been 3 years since the tragedy but in the player's perspective it wasn't too long. Instead they could have shown that he still couldn't get over his wife. Oh and mona had a twin sister who came out of where?? I never really got it.

[ 06-07-2002, 03:45 AM: Message edited by: Kalki ]

Cathome

06-07-2002, 05:16 AM

I wasnt expecting it. I hope she will take part in the second story. In fact, she was the one of them worse to stay alive (excuse me for poor English, hope youll understand).

[ 06-07-2002, 05:17 AM: Message edited by: Cathome ]

Guest

06-07-2002, 08:47 AM

Don't get me wrong, I think she's alive, but I didn't really want her to be. As part of true film-noir story she should be evil, but later die. The hero is often slightly sad but overall best on his own. Having her return in the sequel is a bit... comic bookish. It's interesting to see a blend of comics and film-noir in a computer game, since the artwork of many comic books is already heavily inspired by the lighting in film-noir films... But I seem to have gone off-topic here. I don't necissarily like mona, but I don't think she's betrayed max enough yet. Also a bit odd, the "femme fatales" usually befriend the hero character for quite a while before exposing their duplicity...

Gryph

06-10-2002, 05:25 PM

I became seriously depressed after she was killed. I almost committed suicide over it. But I instead channeled that negative energy by flying over to Finland and smacking Sami over the head.

Seriously, I didn't really care about Mona much. I always thought she was a bitch-whore from hell.

Rott King

06-10-2002, 10:41 PM

I thought her and Max were paerfect...i was really pissed when she "died" but i know she isn't.Her body just wouldn't vanish after a headshot, i bet she just got graized.OR, for a more darker feel, she and the old bitch staged it to get at Max in the next game. images/icons/mad.gif

biXen

06-11-2002, 01:54 AM

Me and Max likes bad girls... We want Mona to live, marry that bitch... *slap*

LeadBullet

06-11-2002, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by The Baskinator:
I didn't care that Mona died. In fact, I was expecting it. It's watching the scene of Max's family getting slaughtered that I can't handle.What do you mean? They didn't show it happen.

Cathome

06-11-2002, 06:30 AM

The thing I cant stand that she died too quickly and wasnt care to kill more junkies near elevator. This place was one of the most difficult and hateful for me.

SkavenRMD

06-11-2002, 06:51 AM

What do you mean? They didn't show it happen.But you could hear the fear and despair in her voice.

And that's exactly what made it hard to handle. Imagination is stronger than direct images. At least in people who haven't gotten used to being spoon-fed. images/icons/smile.gif

With the technology we had, showing it happen would have looked really cheesy. The same applies to the silly puppet-like dialogue cutscenes in many of today's games IMO. Sometimes it's a better idea not to show, than to show something poorly made that ruins the opportunity to imagine. We didn't have good cutscene technology, but we had great voice actors.

I hope you catch my drift. I don't want to sound like Barney when he exclaims, "Let's imagine!" images/icons/blush.gif

biXen

06-11-2002, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />What do you mean? They didn't show it happen.But you could hear the fear and despair in her voice.

And that's exactly what made it hard to handle. Imagination is stronger than direct images. At least in people who haven't gotten used to being spoon-fed. images/icons/smile.gif

With the technology we had, showing it happen would have looked really cheesy. The same applies to the silly puppet-like dialogue cutscenes in many of today's games IMO. Sometimes it's a better idea not to show, than to show something poorly made that ruins the opportunity to imagine. We didn't have good cutscene technology, but we had great voice actors.

I hope you catch my drift. I don't want to sound like Barney when he exclaims, "Let's imagine!" images/icons/blush.gif <hr /></blockquote>Just like the icecave monster in Star Wars IMO is much scarier when it isn't shown to us like it is in the special editions...

Omario

06-11-2002, 11:13 AM

Well, I"m not so sure; she was standing in front of the elevator and kinda gripping Max's jacket and then she got she got shot in the head, and FLEW backwards into the elevator back-wall, proving that:

1. The bullet went at full force into her head with incredible power unblockable by any skull or bone and had enough power to send her flying backwards into the elevator, and judging by the blood that had come out in that split second, it was one hell of a shot and oblvously went through her head.

and...

2. ...therefore, SHE IS DEAD!

Kalki

06-11-2002, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
With the technology we had, showing it happen would have looked really cheesy. The same applies to the silly puppet-like dialogue cutscenes in many of today's games IMO. Sometimes it's a better idea not to show, than to show something poorly made that ruins the opportunity to imagine. Interesting. You were probably right in what you did. Seeing them die may not have had the same impact. Our imagination was enough to fill in the blanks. And while hearing the shots and the screaming, I kinda felt like I was Max closing my eyes in pain while trying to mentally share those moments with them. I'm not even sure if that makes sense...

But what I'd like to know- to get a better understanding of the development process- is did you guys decide on this beforehand or did you experiment with it? Did you create the scene showing them being shot and then redo those bits to make it like it is now?

[ 06-11-2002, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Kalki ]

SkavenRMD

06-11-2002, 03:25 PM

We indeed did a scene which showed Michelle startling and turning to look behind her, and another one with her falling down onto the bed, but they didn't look dramatic enough. Not showing but only hearing it happen turned out to work better. We favored this solution especially after we had received the excellent voice performances.

Sometimes a great voice performance can be even ruined by poor animation. If the actor performs very passionately but the character moves like a christmas shop window servo puppet, it just won't look good. The dreadful image of the stiffly moving character intrudes your mind, and you cannot imagine something better.

Interestingly enough, this rule also expands to animated films. Some people say that Japanese animation sucks because it often has a very low frame rate. But what the makers of those films have realized, is that the brain often fills in the blanks better than the animator. Just watch any Tiny Toons episode animated by Kennedy Cartoons and you'll believe. images/icons/smile.gif

Well, if you can't watch any of those, I can summarize Yoda style: "Lots of inbetweens does not poor keyframing improve."

biXen

06-11-2002, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by OMARIO:
1. The bullet went at full force into her head with incredible power unblockable by any skull or bone and had enough power to send her flying backwards into the elevator, and judging by the blood that had come out in that split second, it was one hell of a shot and oblvously went through her head.

and...

2. ...therefore, SHE IS DEAD!You need help... it was a STILL IMAGE with sound... your imagination is a bit too vivid boy...

Guest

06-12-2002, 12:45 AM

I don't think she was shot in the head. I initially thought that. But I think later it was decided that she had been shot in the shoulder and the angle she was drawn at made it look like it was her head. It's not like the makers of the game have a penchant for hiding bodies or anything. There is obviously something behind this style of "death". Probably a lazarus style appearance in MP2.

Kalki

06-12-2002, 03:45 AM

Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
We indeed did a scene which showed Michelle startling and turning to look behind her, and another one with her falling down onto the bed, but they didn't look dramatic enough. Not showing but only hearing it happen turned out to work better. We favored this solution especially after we had received the excellent voice performances.

Sometimes a great voice performance can be even ruined by poor animation. If the actor performs very passionately but the character moves like a christmas shop window servo puppet, it just won't look good. The dreadful image of the stiffly moving character intrudes your mind, and you cannot imagine something better.

Interestingly enough, this rule also expands to animated films. Some people say that Japanese animation sucks because it often has a very low frame rate. But what the makers of those films have realized, is that the brain often fills in the blanks better than the animator. Just watch any Tiny Toons episode animated by Kennedy Cartoons and you'll believe. images/icons/smile.gif

Well, if you can't watch any of those, I can summarize Yoda style: "Lots of inbetweens does not poor keyframing improve."Very Very Interesting, thanks! images/icons/smile.gif So, how many endings did you do? images/icons/wink.gif

SkavenRMD

06-12-2002, 02:53 PM

Just one.

Well, at one point we thought about having the camera follow Nicole Horne as she falls to her death from the helicopter platform of the Aesir building (hence the unused "Naaaaaaaaa!" scream that can be found among the voice files), but we concluded it would be a bit too corny.

Kalki

06-12-2002, 04:30 PM

Cool! I graemlins/love.gif love graemlins/love.gif tidbits like these. But they should go into a FAQ or an interview or something that documents the various aspects of the games we play. Like a director's narration on a DVD movie... images/icons/smile.gif

PinpointMarxMan

06-12-2002, 05:35 PM

I'll have to give you credit Remedy, like the other guys said, the voice acting was great. Nearly perfect. I have a question though, what did you do for the baby crying? Did you use a real baby or did you find a really good voice actor for that?

Also, I dont believe Mona is dead either, and I think she will play a more involved role in MP2.

[ 06-12-2002, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: PinpointMarxMan ]

SkavenRMD

06-13-2002, 01:02 AM

But they should go into a FAQ or an interview or something that documents the various aspects of the games we play. Like a director's narration on a DVD movie...I think we'll rather just concentrate on the game. images/icons/smile.gif

I have a question though, what did you do for the baby crying? Did you use a real baby or did you find a really good voice actor for that?It was a Standard Issue Baby Cry that can be found in the General 6000 sound effect library. It was either a very good acting performance by a Standard Issue Baby, or the child of a foley artist who had installed a microphone above the cradle. "The hand that mikes the cradle", heh heh.

While we're on the subject, did you ever watch the television version of the movie Chinatown II? It had the weirdest baby cry, ever. Maybe something went wrong with the surround channels when authoring the television version? I don't know, but I had to rewind it and re-listen it a few good times. I couldn't believe my ears. It sounded like a three-headed mutant baby.

But I did it even weirder. I tried pitch-shifting the baby cry two octaves down and playing it in reverse. Now that's weird. graemlins/hhg.gif

Guest

06-13-2002, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
But I did it even weirder. I tried pitch-shifting the baby cry two octaves down and playing it in reverse. Now that's weird. graemlins/hhg.gif My god, what your neighbors must have thought...