Gmax in the house!

[Co11]

Ok, Discreet JUST released GMAX, the free model editor from the guys who brought us 3D Studio Max. I'm trying to see if Max Payne's plug-in's will work for it, so far no luck... Any Suggestions?

[Neverman]

You can't use GMax with Max Payne. The developer has to create support for it. Remedy made MaxEd. Remedy made no 3DS Max support for level editing. Remedy has not said they ever will. Therefore, there is currently no support for GMax and you can't use it for Max Payne. Nor will you ever be able to unless Remedy licenses it. It's NOT free to developers either.

[biXen]

GMAX is also mainly for level design and basic stuff. I don't think you can make animations, characters or any other more advanced modelling.

[November235]

GMax *Dev* isn't what we (the mod-makers) would want. It is what Remedy would (hopefully) use to create the game pack that allows us to model without $3000 software.

I'm certainly going to give this thing a try.

It does do modelling, animation and texturing. Look at some of those screenshots. I read all the intro pages stuff, and it's basically 3DS MAX without some of the really advanced stuff.

If Remedy have the time, they could (I think) make a game pack that replaced 3DS/MS3D Whatever we use + ActorFX - rolled into one.

[ 09-28-2001: Message edited by: November235 ]

[Guest]

Be great if they did release a game pack. I would love to model things for max, but like most people out there I just can't afford 3ds max. Perhaps if they released a disk with some mods on and the game pack they could recoup the money for the game licence needed for gmax dev. Not only would this help the moding community but also provide a solution to the hosting problems that most of the TC producers are facing. After all I would be willing to pay £10 for the disk rather than having to shell out thousands on 3ds max.

[November235]

Ditto here. GMAX forever!!

[SamiV]

Disclaimer: The following is my personal opinion and does not reflect our company policy. I have not been involved in any gmax beta programs but have had an eye for the software since it's first public annoucement and I have discussed my views on it with discreet employees.

I think the basic idea behind gmax is excellent. Finally a "warez free" high-end 3d tool for the mod scene for all games. My optimism stopped once I got to talk with discreet (creators of 3ds max and gmax) about the kit.

One of the major gmax problems (of which discreet is very low key about) is how expensive is the "gmax developer" is. Eg, the package we as the developer need to buy to be able to convert our existing tools (like the .kf2 exporter etc) to a "game pack" that the gmax can load.

One license for 3ds max 4 is multiple times cheaper than a lisence for "gmax developer". Just so you get a ballpark on how much discreet actually wants the developer to pay to get a tool which doesn't actually add anything to the existing toolset.

My personal feeling is that what discreet is trying to do here is to make the developer be the "bad guy" for not releasing a "game pack" for gmax. They completely ignore the fact that the developer needs to pay thru the nose to be able to even create the "game pack", on top of which all the time that actually goes into making and supporting it.

I'd love to release a "game pack" for for Max Payne if it would mean taking the current plugins, convert them to gmax and publish them with easy to use examples.

Another problem that I have with gmax is the fact that discreet tries to shove it down as a "level editor". Please, those of you willing to spend the time, please install "gmax", the Q3 "tempest" game pack with all required tools like Q3Radiant and go thru the tutorial. Then get back on how much easier it was compared to just learning the same thing in Q3Radiant. And keep an eye on the framerate and the ease of use (when moving around the level in gmax) once you've added 20 brushes and a few items to the level.

I'd really love to see gmax just as a tool to edit all the content the original game authors made in 3ds max. One of the biggest problems you'll run into (at least in the future) is that gmax does NOT support Character Studio!

SamiV.

[November235]

As some of you may now, I came from the HL scene. I have spent all day trying to imagine Worldcraft (brush-based mapping) combined with Milkshape 3D (vertex-based modelling) - and failed completely. I don't think it's possible to successfully do both.

[Salv]

Theres cool soft ware out there anyway, Lightwave for example, which runs pretty well in my low-tech PC.

[Guest]

ok, first a reply to the lightwave comment... i've messed around with lightwave. lightwave can do the things 3dsMAX can do but i like 3dsMAX better. the way it is built and the way you create object just make more sence to me...

Gmax is a great free utillity.. but i agree with SamiV from remedy. it's a great concept, just the gmax dev version should be cheaper. i think discreet made a large mistake is that area. perhaps they thought it would decrease the amount of 3dsmax warez there is out there, but that is very unlikely. Gmax is a very limited program, it doesn't have the renderer, nurbs, charecter studio (among other things that i can't quite remember now). even the material editor doesn't look like 3dsmax4. i'm not sure why they just don't release a plugin for 3dsMAX r4 that would allow for Gmax files to be imported and xref'd.


regards,
Ryan

[November235]

Yeah, but how much is it?
If it's cheap, where can I get it?

[Neverman]

A developer from another game company said that Discreet is asking $80,000 for the GMax Dev license. That's crazy.

[November235]

images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/mad.gif images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/confused.gif graemlins/mryuck.gif

That is just SICK. And the worst thing is that people will now go and blame the developers for not making plug-ins for it!!

[Guest]

Rhinosaur,


I think the lightwave way of doing things makes more sense.

Comparing it to 3dsmax, is like comparing paint shop pro to photoshop. It's a bit harder to get into, but when you know it, you can do miracles, no matter the tool you use. Total freedom and total control.

Lightwave rocks! images/icons/wink.gif

It works great as a level-editor too. I created a mental-hospital in Lightwave for a demo project. I set the lights using raytraced area-lights, spotlights, radiocity and all other high-tech techniques. By using a standard function in lightwave, i rendered the setup as lightmaps, with the lightwave render-engine (as good as mental-ray).

Lightwave gave me total creative control in the modeling and setup process, the lightwave render- engine gave us the best lightmaps we could ever ask for. Remeber, this render engin can't be compared to anything you will ever find in a standard level-editor.

The results were fantastic and the only game the graphics could be compared too, was max-payne(not on the technical side though. The engin were made within a month by a friend of mine, who is also a student. The engin didn't have a lot of functionality, but it was pretty high-tech 3d viewer, with splines animation (for camera work) and a lot of eye-candy.

The project is currently on hold, but we'll see.

Take a look at:

www.lightwave3d.com (http://www.lightwave3d.com/)

[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: merge ]

[Komb.at]

I tried Lightwave once, thought that was in my 3D Studio 4.0 times (not max,or maybe max 1 was out already). I think you'd had to save every single object in a seperate file or something, i was totally confused by it, and quickly went back to 3D Studio, wich easier imho

[Bean]

i guess gmax will be good practice though, that all i can see it as.

[Sayantan]

Okay I totally got what SamiV tried to say.But I have another question to them too that cd probably help this thing a bit.
No Max Payne modder needs a new level editor.MAX-ED just rocks and for everybody's kind information,3d Studio Max is not really made for levels and stuff.Its a bit crappy in that case(check out trainz if u dont get me).Its also bad in optimization for levels.The only thing MP modders need is a quality modeller, model texturer, and model animator.ParticleFX also rocks only if there's another option to show the particles in 2d space(like water ripples, etc.).
Why dont u guys try to make a program for characters keeping in mind the user-interface of 3d Studio Max(which I think is the best among all other 3d softwares)?
I wont say more but SamiV can u plz check out this thread and answer my question?I waited for so many days but really none from Remedy did answer me.

Modelling question to Remedy (http://forums.3drealms.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=002095)
Please just answer the first post of the thread.

[EDIT] Remedy can also make plug-ins for a lo-budget but still quality program like Rhino3d or so n so.

[ 04-19-2003, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Sayantan ]

[endo]

this is my piece, and probably something you dont want to here, but i'll say it anyway.

everyone needs to stop complaining that they need better software to do everything, and instead spend the time to get familiar with the concepts of 3d before knocking one piece of software and saying another is better.

I say this why, back in 1996 i started with autoCAD and i still use it on occasion, when i was first introduced to other software such as Truespace, 3D studio, Maya, etc etc, i was quick to knock their potential. Now i used 3d studio regularily, okay mabye im known as the weapons monkey within the MP community but fair rplay, however i do model one or two other things, and have some knowledge on 3d.

Cheap software such as Milkshape is adequate enough by anyones standards, however because its cheap people want to go "nooooo i want to use Maya, there's all these advanced features"... well yeah sure there are but are you ever going to use them, and in fact to you even know how to.

a similar parellel, is the average guy in a company, he has a computer at work, all he does is write reports and send e-mail, and guess what a 386 would be suitable, but no he has to have a 2Ghz machine because its the best.

the conclusion is learn your tools, if the models you make are bad, practice, using 3d studio is not going to make you any better, learn the basics with basic software, when your on the level that you can poly model a realistic character move on to higher end software.

eitherway gmax is fairly decent for a free bit of software, and i run it on my laptop since its ideal as a base when im presenting models to people, and i think its a good basis for learning the Max interface.... and you can allways export to milkshape anyways.

[Sayantan]

I totally agree what Endo said but Endo,Dont u think Milkshape3d is a bit too lo-standard for Max Payne modelling.If u say "NO",well then I'm the dumbest person in this community.

[ShadyC]

You can't use GMax with Max Payne<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">http://forums.3drealms.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=002119
Isn't this thread kinda saying that you can import animations and models into GMAX or am I lost?

[Maddieman]

Originally posted by ShadyC:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You can't use GMax with Max Payne<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">http://forums.3drealms.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=002119
Isn't this thread kinda saying that you can import animations and models into GMAX or am I lost? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jesus. graemlins/doh.gif

That's the last time I link to an old thread. graemlins/brickwall.gif

[ShadyC]

huh?

I also had a small question, if you download an object made in like 3dmax or gmax, is there any way you can import the object into MaxED to use in your levels?

[Maddieman]

Don't worry, I wasn't specifically targeting anyone; and the only way to import detailed geometry from 3Ds Max into MaxEd is to create it as a character or a level item.

[ShadyC]

no i really don't know what you mean when you said that? hehe thats why i said huh, now with the level item thing, can you have infinite level items then, becuase I might find alot of nice things i wanna use and i might not be able to reproduce them all, so my question, how can you make a new level item, and can you have infinite ones.....oh (EDIT) addon question, that means if i make it as a lvel-item it can't be a dynamic object, so I could only place it as it, and rotate and move it right?

[ 04-19-2003, 08:13 PM: Message edited by: ShadyC ]

[jaikrishnan]

About gmax dev being too costly, i don't think so. why the hell should remedy or take 2 make a game pack when you can write import and export scripts using max script. even a user with enough knowledge can write a script. So using gmax will be free for the develper as well as the user.

[Mrd4]

It is free to write a script, but it isn't free to distribute the software.

[Sayantan]

Yes absolutely.Licensing of GMax for Game developers are much more costly than licensing 3d Studio Max plug-ins (...as said by Sami V of Remedy).