I wonder if in Max Payne 2 [Archive]

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Devil Master

09-24-2002, 05:09 AM

...the sniper rifle animation will be fixed, or Max will still be sticking the rifle through his arm... images/icons/tongue.gif

Devil Master

09-24-2002, 02:51 PM

Hey! Who erased (what's his name?) reply, who said it has been fixed?

Maddieman

09-25-2002, 12:56 AM

Or if the rats will actually hold their Desert Eagles properly. images/icons/tongue.gif

SkavenRMD

09-25-2002, 01:56 AM

It's a conspiracy, I tell ya!

Seriously.. I did, because it turned out my reply was technically incorrect. Quaternal rotation is just a different way of saving animation data. Anyhow, the problem is no longer there.

In Max Payne, you could notice how Max lost the left-hand grip of his two-handed guns whenever he aimed it up or down. This was because the bone hierarchy didn't rotate correctly when interpolating between the up, forward and down shoot animation.

Now it does.

Co11

09-27-2002, 03:51 PM

conspiracy?! there after us!

Maddieman

09-27-2002, 04:17 PM

Quaternal rotation is just a different way of saving animation data That's where the eight shootdodge animations blend together to produce 360 aiming, right?

Wow; I think my animation tutorial could do with some nifty technical vocabulary like that - got any more? images/icons/wink.gif

Speaking of which, how you modifed the feature where max rotates at a constant speed during shootdodging? I'm not sure what your take on that is. On the one hand it's useful because Max is supposed to have enhanced reflexes; but on the other it looks weird during more extreme examples of slow down.

Bludd

09-27-2002, 07:20 PM

SkavenRMD

09-28-2002, 01:02 AM

That's where the eight shootdodge animations blend together to produce 360 aiming, right?Right... but quaternal rotation is just a data format, like decimals or degrees. The shootdodge animations are blended together by interpolating between the eight animations, depending on the direction the player is aiming.

Wow; I think my animation tutorial could do with some nifty technical vocabulary like that - got any more? Sure. The flat bitmaps used for particles aren't called sprites - they're called billboards. images/icons/wink.gif

Seriously, ask any programmer and they're more than glad to bombard you with technical mumbo jumbo.

Speaking of which, how you modifed the feature where max rotates at a constant speed during shootdodging? I'm not sure what your take on that is. On the one hand it's useful because Max is supposed to have enhanced reflexes; but on the other it looks weird during more extreme examples of slow down.How we modified it? Constant speed? I'm not sure if I understood the question, but earlier we tried slowing down the mouse aim while shoot-dodging to make it more 'realistic', but players were annoyed by it because it felt restricting. So, we scrapped the restriction, and as a result if the player decides to really wipe his/her desk with the mouse during bullet time, Max will spin around unnaturally fast. This also happens in first person games, but nobody seems to care.

SkavenRMD

09-28-2002, 01:04 AM

What about the strangeness when you shot with the pistol, paused and let the camera revolve around Max. At some angles the pistol would change "state" (from something in the clip to empty looking)..

It's quite hard to explain when you don't know too much about guns, but I do know it's not supposed to do that when there's ammo in the clip.I'm not sure what you mean by this, sorry. (I don't think I've seen it happen... maybe it was a level-of-detail mesh switch?)

Maddieman

09-28-2002, 06:27 AM

players were annoyed by it because it felt restricting If Remedy is looking for a beta tester for Max Payne 2... images/icons/wink.gif

as a result if the player decides to really wipe his/her desk with the mouse during bullet time, Max will spin around unnaturally fast. What I meant was that if you slow the game down to, say 0.001 (virtually paused), max will still twist about at the same speed as he does at 0.2 during the standard shootdodge.

I guess there are more pros than cons for the way you choose. The reason I brought it up was because I had a camerapath which activated and slowed time down when a bullet was inches away from an enemy's face. The only problem was that, if you did it during a shootdodge the player could still twist about at full speed, while everything else had almost stopped. I tried using the disable player controls command, but that leads me on to the other 'oddity'...

I've noticed that if you start a character animation, switch to a camerapath, and switch back, the character animation is abruptly ended. For example, if you activate a camerapath during a shootdodge, when the camera ends the shootdodge animation is cut also. This looks especially odd when you're in mid air, as the character attempts to move from diving position to standing.

I'm not being very clear, but I hope you can understand what I'm getting at. images/icons/smile.gif

Maddieman

09-28-2002, 06:35 PM

Seriously, ask any programmer and they're more than glad to bombard you with technical mumbo jumbo. I'd better start reading those Poser and 3ds Max tutorials then. images/icons/wink.gif

PlayfulPuppy

11-10-2002, 08:36 AM

Sure. The flat bitmaps used for particles aren't called sprites - they're called billboards. Wouldn't it be more correct to say that billboarding is the effect used to create a sprite in a 3D world? images/icons/grin.gif

BTW: What depth-sorting method are you using, out of curiosity? Just a BSP tree?

Bludd

11-10-2002, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />What about the strangeness when you shot with the pistol, paused and let the camera revolve around Max. At some angles the pistol would change "state" (from something in the clip to empty looking)..

It's quite hard to explain when you don't know too much about guns, but I do know it's not supposed to do that when there's ammo in the clip.I'm not sure what you mean by this, sorry. (I don't think I've seen it happen... maybe it was a level-of-detail mesh switch?) <hr /></blockquote>I can take a screenshot of it.

Maddieman

11-10-2002, 11:55 AM

No need, I know what the 'glitch' is.

There are two meshes for the beretta (and I presume, some other weapons), of varying detail. When the camera zooms in closer to Max, the more detailed one replaces the lower detailed one. During some camera angles (like the pause camerapath), the camera moves in and out of the boundaries slightly, causing the mesh to change. Anyway, for some reason, the close up mesh depicts the beretta in it's empty state.

...if that makes any sense. images/icons/tongue.gif

maybe it was a level-of-detail mesh switch? graemlins/doh.gif

note to self: read other peoples posts before replying. graemlins/doh.gif

[ 11-10-2002, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: Maddieman ]

SkavenRMD

11-10-2002, 02:58 PM

PlayfulPuppy;
Wouldn't it be more correct to say that billboarding is the effect used to create a sprite in a 3D world?Probably. I need to brush up on my terminology. images/icons/blush.gif

BTW: What depth-sorting method are you using, out of curiosity? Just a BSP tree?Wasn't BSP tree a collision detection, not a depth-sorting medhod?

The particles in Max Payne aren't in fact depth sorted at all. To be more exact, the particle effect is depth sorted with the environment, but the individual particles within the effect aren't depth-sorted with each other. Makes the effect a lot faster to process, and it's almost impossible to notice whether the particles overlap correctly anyway.

codefish

11-10-2002, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />BTW: What depth-sorting method are you using, out of curiosity? Just a BSP tree?Wasn't BSP tree a collision detection, not a depth-sorting medhod?
<hr /></blockquote>BSP (Binary Space Partitioning) trees are primarily used for hidden surface removal/depth sorting, but are also efficient for collision detection. However, they usually require loads of pre-processing, and are most applicable in situations where the geometry is completely static, as real-time rebuilds of the tree is computationally expensive.

Max Payne uses portal rendering instead of BSP if I'm not mistaken.

Bludd

11-11-2002, 12:22 AM

Originally posted by Maddieman:
No need, I know what the 'glitch' is.

There are two meshes for the beretta (and I presume, some other weapons), of varying detail. When the camera zooms in closer to Max, the more detailed one replaces the lower detailed one. During some camera angles (like the pause camerapath), the camera moves in and out of the boundaries slightly, causing the mesh to change. Anyway, for some reason, the close up mesh depicts the beretta in it's empty state.

...if that makes any sense. images/icons/tongue.gif

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> maybe it was a level-of-detail mesh switch? graemlins/doh.gif

note to self: read other peoples posts before replying. graemlins/doh.gif <hr /></blockquote>Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. It's annoying that it happens when the details are set to their highest settings.

11-23-2002, 03:17 PM

I wonder if in Max Payne 2 they'll hire a professional to do the storyboards for the cutscenes. Come on, when Alex died it made me laugh more than cry for his sorry fate.

Or maybe leave out the cutscenes altogether.

..though you should note that that was the only thing that I found bad about the game.

Maddieman

11-23-2002, 05:15 PM

I wonder if in Max Payne 2 they'll hire a professional to do the storyboards for the cutscenes I might be wrong here, but I though Sam Lake was a professional story/screenplay writer. I mean, it's not like he does anything else on the project - programming, etc.

11-23-2002, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by Maddieman:
I might be wrong here, but I though Sam Lake was a professional story/screenplay writer. I mean, it's not like he does anything else on the project - programming, etc. And by professional, I mean someone who is good at what he does, not just that he does it for a living. And, I was talking about the storyboards, as in the camera angles and the "editing". I never had any problems with the story.

Maddieman

11-23-2002, 07:26 PM

And, I was talking about the storyboards, as in the camera angles and the "editing". That would be a Director. images/icons/tongue.gif

11-23-2002, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by Maddieman:
That would be a Director. images/icons/tongue.gif Or, the cinematographer, depending on what responsibilities the director wishes to take.

But since we're talking about games, that would not be the director of the project, atleast as far as I know how game development works (which I don't).

Crim

11-24-2002, 01:45 AM

How about consuming the motolov cocktail instead of throwing it?

SkavenRMD

11-25-2002, 12:51 AM

I'm afraid only Chocolate Mousse would get away with that.

Here's some interesting tidbits (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov_cocktail) on the subject while we're at it.

biXen

11-25-2002, 02:00 AM

Molotov cocktails were even mass-produced by the Finnish military, bundled with matches to light them.Damn cavemen... images/icons/rolleyes.gif

SkavenRMD

11-26-2002, 03:41 PM

Didn't anyone catch my clever Top Secret! (http://us.imdb.com/Title?0088286) reference? Oh, what the world has come to.

Actually I'm not sure how it should be spelled. IMDB states the character's name to be "Chocolate Mousse", while in some other places I've seen it spelt "Chokolat Mousse".

The scene isn't even included among the Memorable Quotes in IMDB. Well, here's the scene (as I remember it, may not be 100% accurate):

Chokolat Mousse: [offers Nick Rivers a bottle] "Let's drink to that!"
Nick Rivers: [takes the bottle and drinks a sip, then spits it out] "Yecch! What is this stuff?"
Chokolat Mousse: "Gasoline! Ha ha!" [takes the bottle and guzzles]

Man, I'd so like to see that movie again. And watch the Swedish Bookstore scene in reverse.

biXen

11-28-2002, 10:37 AM

Erm, can't expect everyone else to watch mediocre 80's comedy's Skav images/icons/wink.gif

The Baskinator

11-29-2002, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
Didn't anyone catch my clever Top Secret! (http://us.imdb.com/Title?0088286) reference? Oh, what the world has come to.

Actually I'm not sure how it should be spelled. IMDB states the character's name to be "Chocolate Mousse", while in some other places I've seen it spelt "Chokolat Mousse".

The scene isn't even included among the Memorable Quotes in IMDB. Well, here's the scene (as I remember it, may not be 100% accurate):

Chokolat Mousse: [offers Nick Rivers a bottle] "Let's drink to that!"
Nick Rivers: [takes the bottle and drinks a sip, then spits it out] "Yecch! What is this stuff?"
Chokolat Mousse: "Gasoline! Ha ha!" [takes the bottle and guzzles]

Man, I'd so like to see that movie again. And watch the Swedish Bookstore scene in reverse. *raises hand* I didn't get to see all of that movie, but I did see that part. Do I get a cookie? images/icons/grin.gif

And it was a clever reference, indeed...