Real life Bullet Time [Archive]

Maddieman

11-07-2002, 06:42 AM

The video's I could get working were amazing (particularily the shotgun).

There's also one where a fly goes past in the other direction - at first I thought someone had shot the guy back. images/icons/grin.gif

Perhaps they will rack up the courage to try shootdodge dives someday - now that would be fun to watch.

Very cool Skaven, and it's given me a few ideas too. images/icons/smile.gif

Bushido

11-07-2002, 11:09 AM

That was awesome! I didn't know the pellets spread that quickly. And the Glock was very cool. Comparing that to Max Payne, I'd say you guys did a damn good job with the bullet time!

Chimera

11-07-2002, 01:08 PM

Cool!
Thankfully Max doesn't have the rippling flab on his arms that these guys do.....seriously- watch the arms.....very weird....

I have to say it images/icons/rolleyes.gif - an addition to MP2 to make it even more realistic? Max Payne 2, now with rippling flab! graemlins/mryuck.gif

The Baskinator

11-07-2002, 02:48 PM

Coooooooooooooooool!

Hmm... this makes me want to play...

/me starts up Max Payne

I'll be back in about... two hours. images/icons/grin.gif

SkavenRMD

11-08-2002, 12:12 AM

Bushido;
I didn't know the pellets spread that quickly. And the Glock was very cool.I didn't know that, either, but I think the fact the pellets are coming towards the camera at a very sharp angle exaggerates the apparent spread a bit.

What was also new to me, is the extremely short life of the muzzle flash. In Max Payne it had to be made quite a bit longer because it wouldn't have shown correctly otherwise.

The Glock that was fired in the clip was the full automatic variant, which fires about 22 rounds per second. Way to empty your clip into the ceiling. images/icons/smile.gif

Chimera;
Thankfully Max doesn't have the rippling flab on his arms that these guys do.....seriously- watch the arms.....very weird....None of the guys in the clips are particularly fat. Human tissue is just quite soft compared to guns and bullets, and even the rather tight skin of the back of your hand apparently wobbles like jelly if gets shaken and shot in extreme slow motion.

The Contender recoil looks particularly hard. It can't be healthy to the gunner's wrist ligaments to fire that gun very often.

Today's digital video cameras are absolutely packed with features (night shot, anti jitter, you name it), but it's a pity there aren't any commercial "mainstream" video cameras out there that had a "fastshot" mode built in. I wonder if it's even possible with digital video tape; after all, it would require the more bandwidth inside the camera, the faster the frames are shot.

[ 11-08-2002, 12:18 AM: Message edited by: SkavenRMD ]

Guest

11-08-2002, 04:20 AM

No, there's no way to record video at that speed. From the look of this footage it was shot with a special ultra-high-speed film camera, these things are huge. they use about ten minutes worth of film in about 5 seconds. It's several thousand frames per second, they have special motors to pull the film through the camera that fast. Standard 35mm cameras cost millions of dollars, these high speed ones are quite a lot more expensive, so they are usually rented.

To get film to record in slow motion you just make the camera operate faster, make the shutter move faster, make the film move faster, etc. Video is an electronic signal, to film in slow motion the electronics have to operate at a faster pace. Currently, the only video cameras that shoot in slow motion are sony betacams and sony digibeta cameras which cost between $40,000 and $100,000. And those only have the option to film everything at double speed(twice as many frames, half as slow during playback).

No video camera in existence could record video at such a speed. I'm actually doubtful if it could be done with computers either. It's a lot of footage in a very short amount of time.

Maddieman

11-08-2002, 09:50 AM

http://www.users.bigpond.com/ddstevens/forum/apple.jpg

More cool bullet time stuff (http://www.ammoman.com/gunshots.html)

As a side note, I went to the homepage of the above site, and Max Payne was listed as the 3d game of the month images/icons/smile.gif

[ 11-08-2002, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: Maddieman ]

Bushido

11-08-2002, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by Qender:
No, there's no way to record video at that speed. From the look of this footage it was shot with a special ultra-high-speed film camera, these things are huge. they use about ten minutes worth of film in about 5 seconds. It's several thousand frames per second, they have special motors to pull the film through the camera that fast. Standard 35mm cameras cost millions of dollars, these high speed ones are quite a lot more expensive, so they are usually rented.

To get film to record in slow motion you just make the camera operate faster, make the shutter move faster, make the film move faster, etc. Video is an electronic signal, to film in slow motion the electronics have to operate at a faster pace. Currently, the only video cameras that shoot in slow motion are sony betacams and sony digibeta cameras which cost between $40,000 and $100,000. And those only have the option to film everything at double speed(twice as many frames, half as slow during playback).

No video camera in existence could record video at such a speed. I'm actually doubtful if it could be done with computers either. It's a lot of footage in a very short amount of time. I suppose if a bunch of guys with big brains sat down and hammered out a design it could be done, but yeah, it's really not practical. Imagine the cost too...damn

Dogy

11-08-2002, 06:50 PM

I haven't said in this in a while but....GREAT WORK WITH MAX PAYNE REMEDY! I really enjoyed it. You put a lot of work into it. :-)

SkavenRMD

11-09-2002, 01:29 AM

Hey, cool stuff in those photos. I guess it takes really strong lighting and/or supersensitive film to expose the picture for such a minuscule amount of time?

Qender;
they use about ten minutes worth of film in about 5 seconds.Ummm.. wouldn't this figure that the actual film would then last ten minutes when viewed at normal 24-30fps speed? Most of the clips were just 5-15 seconds long. Really cool, anyway. And thanks for the tidbit on the Sony betacams. I didn't know such video cameras were available.

While digital video / filming seems to make so many other cool things possible, I guess super high speed filming will remain in the traditional firm technology realm for quite a while? But then I wonder, how do they make those slow motion instant replays used in some football stadiums? They have a high framerate and can be shown almost immediately, so I guess they must have some kind of a digital slow motion buffer for the purpose. Probably costs a fortune too.

And thank you Dogy, thank you, you've been a lovely audience. images/icons/smile.gif

[ 11-09-2002, 01:32 AM: Message edited by: SkavenRMD ]

Maddieman

11-09-2002, 08:06 AM

how do they make those slow motion instant replays used in some football stadiums? They have a high framerate and can be shown almost immediately, That reminds me of last year's summer x games (during my THPS2 period images/icons/tongue.gif ). They had a camera rig set up on the halfpipes so that they could deliver Matrix-style slow-motion bullet-time replays seconds after the stunt actually happened.

This (http://www.kewazinga.com/) is the company's website, if you follow the links to the press section, you'll find quite a few articles with example footage.

This (http://expn.go.com/xgames/wxg/2002/archive/axis/index.html#) site has an article on it, and also includes about ten videos where you can rotate the camera yourself.

graemlins/hhg.gif

Maddieman

11-09-2002, 01:48 PM

Btw MaddieMan, do you still have that link with the photos of bullets striking the apples or the coke cans? Er...I already posted it - underneath the photo of a bullet striking an apple. graemlins/hhg.gif

Unless you meant why do I still have the link; in which case...good memory? images/icons/smile.gif

images/icons/confused.gif

[ 11-09-2002, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Maddieman ]

Darkreaver

11-09-2002, 02:34 PM

I must say the movies and Maddieman's photos are wonderfull.I put the bullet striking the apple as a wallpaper.If my memory serves me well the same camera that was used in the movies was also used in the movie 'Face Off' were it shows the guns firing.Pretty neat.

poo_al

11-09-2002, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by Maddieman:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Btw MaddieMan, do you still have that link with the photos of bullets striking the apples or the coke cans? Er...I already posted it - underneath the photo of a bullet striking an apple. graemlins/hhg.gif

Unless you meant why do I still have the link; in which case...good memory? images/icons/smile.gif

images/icons/confused.gif <hr /></blockquote>Nevermind. graemlins/doh.gif graemlins/doh.gif graemlins/doh.gif

I didn't see it there. images/icons/blush.gif

poo_al

11-10-2002, 12:18 AM

Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
I guess it takes really strong lighting and/or supersensitive film to expose the picture for such a minuscule amount of time?For sure. My friend's dad is in the media or movie business (I forget which). My friend said that for really short exposure times, they use so many lights that everyone has to wear googles, and that all the lights raise the air temperature significantly.

While in an archery range they were showing people fire arrows at about 7000fps or some ridiculous number like this. It was freakin' awesome to watch. The arrow acts just like spaghetti. It just wobbles around while the drawstring pushes it. Very cool stuff.

Btw MaddieMan, do you still have that link with the photos of bullets striking the apples or the coke cans? images/icons/wink.gif

Gatinater

11-14-2002, 06:57 PM

Danm! I want ot get me one of them Clocks. I wonder if they're better than Glocks?

Guest

11-15-2002, 01:07 AM

Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
Ummm.. wouldn't this figure that the actual film would then last ten minutes when viewed at normal 24-30fps speed? Most of the clips were just 5-15 seconds long...Yes, but they didn't let the camera run all the film, and the high speed cameras can be slowed down. Someone at my school made a film with one of those, it was a girl getting out of a pool, it took ten minutes. Essentially you couldn'nt see her move, but if you looked away for long enough she was in a different place when you looked back. Twas strange.

Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
While digital video / filming seems to make so many other cool things possible, I guess super high speed filming will remain in the traditional firm technology realm for quite a while? But then I wonder, how do they make those slow motion instant replays used in some football stadiums? They have a high framerate and can be shown almost immediately, so I guess they must have some kind of a digital slow motion buffer for the purpose. Probably costs a fortune too.Actually those are usually shot with betacam cameras.

SkavenRMD

11-15-2002, 03:06 AM

I wonder, how do they make those slow motion instant replays used in some football stadiums? <blockquote>quote:<hr />Actually those are usually shot with betacam cameras.<hr /></blockquote>How do they get an instant replay whenever they need it? Do they have a machine running constantly on high speed so they can switch to it anytime something worthy of a flashing R happens?

Guest

11-15-2002, 04:13 AM

The cameras can record stuff digitally and send everything in small bits to a large computer/switcher type thing. I don't know what specific hardware they use for must sports stuff, but I know you can probably find it here:

http://www.thomsongrassvalley.com/

They have all sorts of high end video production stuff.

Thier OB van mentions slow motion:

http://www.thomsongrassvalley.com/systems/obvans/type_xl/stick_desc.html

11-23-2002, 03:01 PM

How do they get an instant replay whenever they need it? Do they have a machine running constantly on high speed so they can switch to it anytime something worthy of a flashing R happens? [/QB]Atleast YLE in Finland rents out EVS -effects boards with a superslomo-function. For most sports they just play the normal 25fps (obviously 30 for NTSC) material at 12.5fps or slower (with some field interpolation when needed so it looks smooth) through the effects board. Sports events with huge money backing and sponsors obviously can afford to use 50fps (60) cameras for an even better looking effect. And one should remember that 25fps is still 50 images per second, each field (even and odd) being a separate image (I'm actually surprised how few people working with professional tv-cameras actually know this).

biXen

11-23-2002, 07:20 PM

So glad that you are here to tell us mr Pro j...

11-23-2002, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by biXen:
So glad that you are here to tell us mr Pro j... Always glad to help images/icons/tongue.gif

Heh, I'm gone for a year and on the first day of posting again I'm already getting on people's nerves images/icons/grin.gif

Joonas

01-01-2003, 04:11 PM

nice...
Hyvä Suomi!

SkavenRMD

01-02-2003, 12:02 AM

If nothing else, these video clips prove some ill-informed Matrix fans that no, there are no visible "ripple" trails behind bullets in real life.

Maddieman

01-02-2003, 04:20 AM

there are no visible "ripple" trails behind bullets in real life. WHAT!!? graemlins/tinyted.gif

...you're still implementing it though, right? images/icons/frown.gif

No matter - I already have, and it looks awesome (I'm not talking about a particle fx, either). I was kind of hoping you could do a trail, which extends proportionately to the amount of bullet-time applied - (so when time stops and there are no trails visible).

Admittedly - Vice City seems to hold the record for coming closest with their extended smoke trails on (every) weapon - although I'm not quite sure if I like it or not.

[ 01-02-2003, 04:25 AM: Message edited by: Maddieman ]

grummzaire

02-02-2003, 08:43 PM

too bad its all in German... even with two years in high school I dont understand.

~grummz

Skrenos

02-03-2003, 12:25 AM

Check out this site too. Slow motion movies of guns in action. In a lot of them you can see the bullets flying out. A couple tomato can and pudding cup shots too images/icons/smile.gif

http://www.bitpress.com/dc/index.html

And check out the main page too. Slow motion stiff of light bulbs breaking, water balloons breaking, etc.

Jade

02-03-2003, 04:16 AM

Wow...those are cool!

SkavenRMD

02-06-2003, 01:06 PM

What kind of errors? In general, framerate drops should not cause animation errors (let's continue this in the Mods & Editing area if it gets too technical).

The particle "error" is simply caused by the fact the particle's lifetime is shorter than one frame - meaning it may never get drawn.

SkavenRMD

02-07-2003, 12:15 AM

Check out this site too. Slow motion movies of guns in action. In a lot of them you can see the bullets flying out. A couple tomato can and pudding cup shots too

http://www.bitpress.com/dc/index.html Yeah, these are indeed cool.

It's amazing what a short life the muzzle flashes actually have. Even when shot with a super-fast camera, they can only seen for a couple of frames.

In Max Payne, the muzzle flash lifetime has to be considerably longer than in real life, because the minimum lifetime of the particle must be at least 1/25 .. 2/25 (0.04 .. 0.08) seconds. Otherwise you couldn't see the particles at all, if the framerate drops below 25.

This is partly justified by the fact they use special magnesium blanks in most Hollywood flicks. images/icons/smile.gif (I wonder what those would look like in extreme slow motion?)

Maddieman

02-07-2003, 12:55 AM

In Max Payne, the muzzle flash lifetime has to be considerably longer than in real life, because the minimum lifetime of the particle must be at least 1/25 .. 2/25 (0.04 .. 0.08) seconds. That would explain why I'm getting framerate errors with some of my character animations....