Max 2 specific bodyparts damage ingame

[neeek]

just wondering and thinking out loud whether mp2 will feature bodypart damage to specific parts that will render and eliminate the characters arms, legs, hands, feet, knees, shoulders, ass, balls and heads.
in mp1 you couldnt do any of that ingame, you try and aim the dot over a guys shoulder or head and it wont do anything to him it the way you want it to. even shooting a guy upclose to him in the head it wont kill him even a bit. that isnt realistic at all, i know its supposed to be a game but it also has to make sense and be logical in terms of what setting the game is and how you progress thru the game.
im not saying that mp2 has to be like sof2 but at least make the game have specific damage to certain bodyparts.

[ADM]

They won't be up to the extent of SOF2 but considering that physics are now in wherever you shoot the guys that part will fall back throwing the rest of the body with it.

I'm not sure about things like one hit kills if you target his head or something.

But lets say you shoot his right arm, his right shoulder will be thrown back causing his rest of the body to follow through.

Things like that.

[Akari]

If someone makes a update (read: me images/icons/tongue.gif ) of the SOF2 gib code, then yes.

[SkavenRMD]

The first Max Payne game already had location specific damage, in the sense that different body parts had different damage multipliers. A headshot did four times the damage of a torso shot, and arms and legs had half the damage.

Until it turned out that if the arms were blocking the torso (when the guy was aiming the rifle), they actually protected the guy from getting damage, so the multiplier was only used on the legs.

I know I sound like that lame guy in that animation that went like, "I want candy!!! WAAH!" "Here, have an apple instead! <extremely annoying tone of voice> It's mother nature's candy...! </extremely annoying tone of voice>" images/icons/smile.gif

[ADM]

Akari: That's great and all but posting 3 times?

Skaven: Ahh never knew that.

[KillJoy]

lol skaven

[SkavenRMD]

(just deleted the extra posts)

*claps dust off his hands*

[ADM]

You've done well master images/icons/smile.gif

[Akari]

yeah sorry images/icons/tongue.gif internet went off when I tried posting.

[biXen]

Originally posted by Akari:
If someone makes a update (read: me images/icons/tongue.gif ) of the SOF2 gib code, then yes. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL, Akari can really crack a guy up.

[ADM]

Originally posted by Akari:
yeah sorry images/icons/tongue.gif internet went off when I tried posting. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What so you posted 2 times more every 4 minutes?

[Nightcom]

I hope that they'll limp n stuff and not run/walk around like nothing happened after being shot. There are lots of improvements that has to be made for mp2 imo.

[SkavenRMD]

There are lots of improvements that has to be made for mp2 imo.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you for pointing that out.

Damn, we almost thought we'd get away with shipping the game with no improvements at all. Now we'll have to start all over again!
graemlins/doh.gif

[theHunted]

Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
...Now we'll have to start all over again!
graemlins/doh.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">don't worry. real max payne fans are already used to that images/icons/tongue.gif

[Nightcom]

lol images/icons/grin.gif , I didn't mean to offend you because I'm actually upgrading my computer just to play max payne 2 y'know ^_^ well and Deus Ex 2 aaand some other stuff but almost mainly because of mp2 ^__^

[Karthik]

So will Max Payne feature lip-synch or do we relive the non-moving mouths used by PSONE games?

[FullMetalJacket]

It will feature a full range of expressions, lip synch and facial animations....from the shots in the new CGW mag, the faces look easily on par with HL2's....although of course, since MP2 is third-person, you really wouldn't be able to appreciate the facial detail except in cutscenes... images/icons/smile.gif

[FullMetalJacket]

No it won't. HL2 will be playable on even the oldest and shittiest of systems. Sure, it'll look no better than the first game, but still! images/icons/grin.gif

[eggyolk]

Meh... I have a Radeon 9000 and some old AMD motherboard with 800 mhz. I heard Max Payne 2 isn't going to be a real system killer though, which is nice. Upgrading to a Pentium 4 as soon as I get the money. images/icons/smile.gif

[Commodore]

I agree with neeek. I think the new Max Payne should allow you to shoot certain bodyparts. That way the game will seem more realistic. And players will enjoy the game and get into the game more than before.

[eggyolk]

Rawr! Why does MP2 have to be compared to HL2? images/icons/frown.gif I think I'll enjoy MP2 more than HL2. (aside the fact that Half Life 2 will kill my PC)

[SkavenRMD]

Re: my first post in this thread. What exactly stopped you from shooting at "certain bodyparts" already in the first game? Headshots do four times the damage, that's a reward for careful aiming.

Or let's put it this way: if shooting "certain bodyparts" and getting very graphic feedback is the definition of a good game for you, why don't you just play Soldier of Fortune I-II?

Why should other games have that feature set? It may not even suit the style of the game. Like, if you like monster trucks, do you think Smart should also have monster truck wheels? If you like ketchup on fries, do you also think it tastes great on ice cream?

Please; let every game have their own trademark. For Soldier of Fortune, it's GHOUL. For Red Faction, it's GeoMod. For Max Payne, it's Bullet Time. M'kay?

You are of course entitled to you opinion. So am I. I should also mention that I love shooting at "certain bodyparts" in Soldier of Fortune II. images/icons/grin.gif

You must also keep in mind that each feature addition like this will delay the game's development by 4-12 months. Especially if you want the feature be an essential part of the gameplay, rather than "just kinda like putting it there, so we can hype it on the box".

[ 08-02-2003, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: SkavenRMD ]

[Komb.at]

Don't mistake shooting at different body parts for shooting off different body parts images/icons/smile.gif

[FullMetalJacket]

As long as a single headshot from any weapon can kill a non-helmeted enemy, I'll be happy. images/icons/smile.gif
What DOES concern me is if the game will have squibs, as in, hole in the enemy's body whereever you riddled him, as seen in SOF and updated versions of SWAT3.

Then again, that shot of the enemy carrying an AK-47 and getting perforated looks quite promising. It looks like there's blood spray exactly where the enemy is hit. It looks good! That is a major part of action movies, after all -- as an enemy gets shot and falls over in slow motion, blood spurts out of his newly-perforated chest. images/icons/grin.gif

[SkavenRMD]

You said it.

And furthermore, adding a feature isn't just about adding the feature - it also has to work with the rest of the game. Take decals for example. In addition to just being there, they have to:
</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">wrap correctly onto existing level geometry</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">clip at corners so they won't float in mid air</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">not clip at exits</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">display correctly through fog</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">be correctly illuminated in relation to the environment and dynamic lights</font> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">not Z-fight with the level geometry, lightmaps, blob shadows or each other</font><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
... so just creating a polygon at the impact location, well, that's only the beginning. This is why these take time. You can imagine the amount of effort Raven & co went through when creating the GHOUL system. Imagine all the things you have to build to make it work. It's an amazing feat. *tips the hat*

Okay, enough lecturing for the day... http://www.modplug.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/knowitall.gif ... I just want to say that regardless whether Max Payne 2 will have some specific feature or not, we're doing our best here to ensure that the game will kick ass.

[ 08-02-2003, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: SkavenRMD ]

[hemlock_0]

And that is good enough for me. images/icons/smile.gif

[FullMetalJacket]

It's good enough for me, too. I'm not expecting one shot to the foot from a .22 to kill enemies in Max2.... I mean, the game is not Rainbow Six, and bulleTime itself isn't all that "realistic"....
But the game DOES endeavor to be like in action movies. Some enemies take many rounds to go down, but not every enemy encountered by the heroes requires fifteen pistol shots to the chest before going belly-up, either.
Yeah, one headshot from any weapon causing instant death might be a bit much....sure, guys always die from a single headshot in action movies (or they lose their sense of pain and go crazy like in The World is Not Enough images/icons/grin.gif ) but then, having to take 25 body shots or 1 headshot to kill an enemy would make MP2 way too much like Deus Ex...which I do not want to happen.
The damage model in Max1 was ALMOST perfect, though I'd have to draw the line at firing three blasts from the sawed-off at the enemy's face at point-blank range and having him still standing. images/icons/tongue.gif

[Commodore]

Well I know bullet time isn't realistic but it does make the game that much more fun. images/icons/grin.gif

[SkavenRMD]

Don't mistake shooting at different body parts for shooting off different body parts images/icons/smile.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah? It's not like you guys aren't mistaking concepts when speaking about cool game features, and backing them up with the statement "it adds to realism".

(why, do you think Bullet Time "adds to realism"?)

[aavenr]

Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
You must also keep in mind that each feature addition like this will delay the game's development by 4-12 months. Especially if you want the feature be an essential part of the gameplay, rather than "just kinda like putting it there, so we can hype it on the box". <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">All your points are 100% right on the mark skaven but I find this particularly interesting. A lot of people don't realize it's decisions like that which shape the development of a game and it's not a matter of just adding as many cool features as you can think of. It's a matter of carefully picking the features that are consistent with the projected feel and look of the game and the smartest way to implement them. Game developement is probably every bit as challenging and strategic as a game of chess.

[biXen]

Hehe, Skaven just cringes when the word feature is mentioned images/icons/tongue.gif

I can say that the reason I trust Remedy to make good games is that they up until now have made the same choices I would when it comes to features, gameplay, etc. And it's all so well done. That's the reason why I rate companies like Remedy and Illusion Softworks higher than ID and such.

[Commodore]

Well biXen your the first person I met who does that.