MP2 to have physics engine? [Archive]

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Co11

01-22-2003, 11:44 PM

hey, I'm looking at havok's website (a physics engine) and they just listed remedy as their latest client....

is mp2 gonna have a ragdoll setup, instead of those death animations? images/icons/smile.gif

biXen

01-23-2003, 01:27 AM

*cough* Busted... images/icons/shocked.gif

Hehe, hopefully they'd have something inbetween anyway, complete ragdoll physics is so... ragdollish... I actually prefer well done animations in many cases...

Maddieman

01-23-2003, 07:32 AM

I certainly hope this is true. One of the major criticisms levelled at Max Payne was the lack of variety in the death animations; so I'm pretty sure they will have some sort of character physics in the game.

Like BiXen, and many others have said; I would hope there is some way to blend between both fixed and ragdoll animations. Perhaps you could enable and disable it on certain frames and on certain joints. Furthermore, varying degrees between hand and ragdoll animation, could be set on certain frames (like an analogue slide bar with the two different states).

Either way, I'm sure if they do implement a physics engine then it will open up some exciting opportunities for players and modders alike.

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=010879#000000

PlayfulPuppy

01-23-2003, 07:50 AM

You could always use a forward kinematics system to make the characters wave their arms and legs about in the air, hollywood style.

Or take a tip or two from www.naturalmotion.com (http://www.naturalmotion.com)

Wamplet

01-23-2003, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by biXen:
*cough* Busted... images/icons/shocked.gif

Hehe, hopefully they'd have something inbetween anyway, complete ragdoll physics is so... ragdollish... I actually prefer well done animations in many cases... in other words, you'd like them to still be somewhat conscious as they die! images/icons/smile.gif images/icons/shocked.gif

Maddieman

01-27-2003, 02:55 PM

http://www.havok.com/products/game_dynamics/clients/remedy.html

mysteryperfecta

01-27-2003, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by biXen:
Hehe, hopefully they'd have something inbetween anyway, complete ragdoll physics is so... ragdollish... I actually prefer well done animations in many cases... I agree. Unless someone is killed instantly, they react to being shot; they don't flop around like a sack of bones. That's one of the problems I have with rag doll physics: it makes bodies more pliable than they are in real life. Like bixen, I prefer well done death animations to rag doll in many cases. Since Max Payne includes some pretty standard run-and-gun gameplay (wonderfully realized), I would hope that many varied death animations would be a top priority.

Kev_Hectic

01-27-2003, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by Maddieman:
http://www.havok.com/products/game_dynamics/clients/remedy.html ^ Cool images/icons/grin.gif I looked at a demonstration video called Asylum there. In it, it shows the main character kick around various objects down a flight of stairs in one level. I wonder if it'll be possible to apply physics to dynamic objects in MaxED 2 and make those objects do similar things?

Maniac536

01-28-2003, 01:32 AM

Have any of you guys ever seen a person die from a gunshot? When a person is shot, if they don't survive the impact they flat die. That's it, they die and they fall. With a small calibur weapon, there's a slight recoil but usually nothing major, a shotgun is a different story.

But the person just falls. That's it, he falls and slumps. No dramatic stuff, no clutching the wound as he dies because he's already dead by then.

Movies are really poor about this.

-Maniac

biXen

01-28-2003, 01:56 AM

And how on earth have you seen a person die from a gunshot?

/me backs slowly away...

And it doesn't matter, Kung Fu, Katana, Max Payne, they'd all be better with better impact on hit's... like a tiny part physics, and controlled by certain laws, so it's not as bouncy as Hitman, and not as "loose" as Raven Shield (Unreal Engine) bodies.

Maddieman

01-28-2003, 04:47 AM

Originally posted by Maniac536:
Have any of you guys ever seen a person die from a gunshot? When a person is shot, if they don't survive the impact they flat die. That's it, they die and they fall. With a small calibur weapon, there's a slight recoil but usually nothing major, a shotgun is a different story.

But the person just falls. That's it, he falls and slumps. No dramatic stuff, no clutching the wound as he dies because he's already dead by then.

Movies are really poor about this.

-Maniac Have you ever seen a John Woo movie? images/icons/grin.gif

I guess I should search for Joe's patented "who the **** cares?" picture.

Maddieman

01-28-2003, 05:34 AM

Hmm...maybe that was a bit harsh; but my point is: is bullet-time realistic? No.

mysteryperfecta

01-28-2003, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by biXen:
...so it's not as bouncy as Hitman, and not as "loose" as Raven Shield (Unreal Engine) bodies. Raven Shield will use ragdoll instead of death animations? That's disappointing; the Rainbow Six series has some of the best death animations, IMO.

mysteryperfecta

01-28-2003, 09:25 AM

I just watched the '02 e3 Raven Shield vid, and I witnessed only death animations. Perhaps referring specifically to Raven Shield as an example of Unreal ragdoll wasn't accurate, unless something has changed since last e3 (possible, I suppose).

Maddieman

01-28-2003, 09:47 AM

And it doesn't matter, Kung Fu, Katana, Max Payne, they'd all be better with better impact on hit's... Katana has impact on hits...as does kung fu 3. But I agree, letting a physics engine handle that aspect would be preferable. As it stands, there can only be one animation which has to cover a whole variety of attacks.

biXen

01-28-2003, 01:09 PM

I think Raven uses a mix, death animations then ragdoll. Like a quick death animation then the ragdoll kick in. Because they roll off ledges and stuff.

Maddie: it doesn't have good impact, there's no KICK when you hit someone. I think good sound would improve it slightly, and more of a jerk when the person is hit...

mysteryperfecta

01-28-2003, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by biXen:
I think Raven uses a mix, death animations then ragdoll. Like a quick death animation then the ragdoll kick in. Because they roll off ledges and stuff.That's possible. The death animations I witnessed weren't nearly as elaborate as what I'm used to from this franchise.

Maddieman

01-28-2003, 02:19 PM

Maddie: it doesn't have good impact, there's no KICK when you hit someone. I think good sound would improve it slightly, and more of a jerk when the person is hit... Which mod were you referring to?

biXen

01-28-2003, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by Maddieman:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Maddie: it doesn't have good impact, there's no KICK when you hit someone. I think good sound would improve it slightly, and more of a jerk when the person is hit... Which mod were you referring to? <hr /></blockquote>All of them, haven't seen anyone improve it with the MP engine... And not sure if it's possible...

01-28-2003, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by mysteryperfecta:
I just watched the '02 e3 Raven Shield vid, and I witnessed only death animations. Perhaps referring specifically to Raven Shield as an example of Unreal ragdoll wasn't accurate, unless something has changed since last e3 (possible, I suppose). You might also like to try the multiplayer demo for Raven Shield that's been out for like two months now. That's definitely ragdoll physics there.

IMO the biggest plus in ragdoll physics is the fact that the bodies will roll down stairs and whatnot. So the ideas about death animations that change seamlessly to realtime physics sound nice enough to me.

Krursk

01-28-2003, 11:12 PM

You can combine death animations with ragdoll, so as they hit things they move about. Eg. a falling back animation in a square room would be a plain old falling back animation(untill he hits the ground). However imagine he is on a ledge or catwalk, as his falling back animation is playing he starts to colide with a rail and his death animation is dynamicaly changed into ragdoll and influences his regular death animation.

or you shoot a goon in the guts and he enters a grabbing his stomach death animation, then you plug a bullet into his head and his death animation is interupted as he then goes limp and falls to the ground. or even death animations that continue combined with ragdoll such as burning or something.

It doesnt have to just one or the other. None of this health at 0 instant ragdoll bugger death animations or play the whole death animation then when they are on the ground go ragdoll so they fall down stairs. A dynamic combination of the both would be new to a game and would seriously kick ass. I think skaven mentioned something like this a few months ago.

biXen

01-29-2003, 01:33 AM

Originally posted by Krursk:
A dynamic combination of the both would be new to a game and would seriously kick ass. I think skaven mentioned something like this a few months ago. Not new, it's done pretty well in Raven Shield after they tweaked the ragdoll physics a bit to constraint the persons a bit more and make them more realistic...

Krursk

01-29-2003, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by biXen:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Krursk:
A dynamic combination of the both would be new to a game and would seriously kick ass. I think skaven mentioned something like this a few months ago. Not new, it's done pretty well in Raven Shield after they tweaked the ragdoll physics a bit to constraint the persons a bit more and make them more realistic... <hr /></blockquote>I was not aware of that. Well even if its nto a first it will still be damn fantastic.