Concept arts [Archive] - 3D Realms Forums

Jade

02-19-2003, 04:25 AM

I'm seaching for a long time for old sketches of Max Payne...I mean the very first concept arts of this game that was never been showed...
Well, I'm not referring to old screenshots...but enspecially sketches of the levels...the story....characters...ect...

Don't mind I'm asking...but I would really like to see something I never seen of this masterpiece images/icons/smile.gif
Are there any chance?

SkavenRMD

02-19-2003, 07:47 AM

Weeelllll... since you ask so nicely.... images/icons/smile.gif

Here's a bunch of really old conceptual character sketches I drew for Max Payne. These were made before the game was even called "Max Payne" (in 1997, to be more accurate). None of these characters really became reality, because we switched to photo-sourcing soon afterwards.

The thumbnails point to larger images which you can access by clicking them.

http://www.remedy.fi/forums/maxconcept1_thm.jpg (http://www.remedy.fi/forums/maxconcept1.jpg)
This is one of the early quick concepts for the main character. It may have some resemblance to the final character but the similarities are mainly coincidental.

http://www.remedy.fi/forums/maxconcept2_thm.jpg (http://www.remedy.fi/forums/maxconcept2.jpg)
Here's another early quick concept for the main character, this time with a trenchcoat and round shades. Another idea dumped for both obvious and technical reasons.

http://www.remedy.fi/forums/valkyrjunkie_thm.jpg (http://www.remedy.fi/forums/valkyrjunkie.jpg)
An early sketch of a Valkyr-crazed junkie. Nice 70s style slacks, eh?

http://www.remedy.fi/forums/lousypunk_thm.jpg (http://www.remedy.fi/forums/lousypunk.jpg)
A lousy punk, scumsucker, hoodlum, whatchamacallit. Another character who (luckily) didn't make it to the game.

Man, photo sourcing makes things so much easier, now that I think about it. images/icons/smile.gif

Simon Charles

02-19-2003, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
Here's a bunch of really old conceptual character sketches I drew for Max Payne.You sir, are a really good artist. Love the look and feel of those characters!

Jade

02-19-2003, 08:44 AM

Woooooow!!! http://digilander.libero.it/emugifs/smilies10.gif
First of all I want to say you're a great artist Skaven...you've my compliments!
I can't believe to see the first sketches of the main character!...well...I onestry say the second one is a lot better than the first (this one remind me the guy from gta images/icons/rolleyes.gif )...I like it because he looks really a bad fellow images/icons/grin.gif

Not bad also the Valkyr-crazed junkie, it wouldn't been bad to see some characters made up by yourself. images/icons/smile.gif

A UGE thanks Skaven!!!

[ 02-19-2003, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: Jade ]

Chimera

02-19-2003, 08:52 AM

^^ ditto to both of the above + very cool
thanks for posting them images/icons/grin.gif

*wanders off wishing she could draw*

SkavenRMD

02-19-2003, 11:35 AM

Heyyyy, you're welcome. Glad you guys like them.

Fun fact: we have a guy working for us, whose drawing skills are out of this world. His figure / character drawings verge on photorealism.

But instead, he's a level designer. graemlins/hhg.gif (he consults the character modelers on female characters though)

This person is known by the name Saku "Owl" Lehtinen.

Chimera;
*wanders off wishing she could draw*I recall seeing a rather funny graffiti on the wall of my animation school's life drawing room:
No Life = Plenty of Time to DrawI found it painfully appropriate. You should be glad you haven't wasted your life learning to draw. graemlins/dopefish.gif

[ 02-19-2003, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: SkavenRMD ]

biXen

02-19-2003, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
http://www.remedy.fi/forums/maxconcept2_thm.jpg (http://www.remedy.fi/forums/maxconcept2.jpg)
Here's another early quick concept for the main character, this time with a trenchcoat and round shades. Another idea dumped for both obvious and technical reasons.
Then Futuremark found the sketch, cut off his hair and used him in 3D Mark 2001 images/icons/smile.gif

The sketches are good (of course), but they aren't really noir images/icons/smile.gif (ie the characters look very cartoony, but I dunno if they still can be drawn like that in concept or not). I can't draw worth shit images/icons/frown.gif Pixel by pixel designs work fine though, and thank heaven for Photoshop seven images/icons/wink.gif (actually I use 6, but that didn't rhyme)

motionblur

02-19-2003, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
You should be glad you haven't wasted your life learning to draw. graemlins/dopefish.gif Hey!

Jade

02-19-2003, 01:30 PM

Originally posted by SkavenRMD:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />No Life = Plenty of Time to DrawI found it painfully appropriate. You should be glad you haven't wasted your life learning to draw. graemlins/dopefish.gif <hr /></blockquote>Ehmmmm.....but every draw is a sketch of our life...

Kev_Hectic

02-19-2003, 01:40 PM

^ Very cool images/icons/smile.gif The second sketch looks sort of like a charcter from Death Rally.

FreDsom

02-19-2003, 02:21 PM

Very nice work images/icons/grin.gif
You guys should make a "unleashed" article where you include this sort of things...

Maddieman

02-20-2003, 12:05 AM

Nice work, Skaven. images/icons/smile.gif

I found it painfully appropriate. You should be glad you haven't wasted your life learning to draw. graemlins/dopefish.gif Er....Animators are in the clear; I hope...I'm starting to get the hang of it. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubb/icons/icon115.gif

SkavenRMD

02-20-2003, 04:45 AM

biXen;
The sketches are good (of course), but they aren't really noir (ie the characters look very cartoonyThat's one of the reasons we decided to go for photorealism and photo-sourcing.

Hey, here's another one (finally found it):
http://www.remedy.fi/forums/alexcasey_thm.jpg (http://www.remedy.fi/forums/alexcasey.jpg)
This is a facial portrait of the "trenchcoat guy" you see in the sketch I posted earlier. This was meant to be the hero of the game that was back then called Dark Justice, but later became Max Payne.

The only thing that was kept of this character, was the first name, which was used for Alex Balder.

Again, the guy looks very cartoony so in order for this kind of a character to look actually cool, the whole world would have to be cartoony in appearance.

As soon as gamers become tired of gritty photorealism, we'll happily go back to cartoony designs. images/icons/smile.gif Alas, many people seem to observe cartoony / hand-drawn games to look "dated", which is odd, but can be explained.

Jade

02-20-2003, 08:39 AM

Very cool! Even if I prefer the look of Max Payne images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/smile.gif

Medic

02-20-2003, 02:55 PM

I remember seeing some very early pictures of the max payne model in the pelit magazine. Do you have any of those Max "in the beginning" - pictures?

02-20-2003, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by Jade:
First of all I want to say you're a great artist Skaven...you've my compliments!You should see how good he's at colouring. images/icons/tongue.gif

aavenr

02-20-2003, 09:14 PM

Well i don't know if any of you have bothered to check it out but there is a bunch of skaven's non-max payne concept art at his website:

www.futurecrew.org/skaven/artwork_drawings.html (http://www.futurecrew.org/skaven/artwork_drawings.html)

And Peter, nice take on Billy Gates by the way images/icons/grin.gif

Joker

02-21-2003, 02:52 AM

Some spiffy artwork all round. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubb/icons/icon107.gif

There's a fair array of music there, too. I'm gonna have to give some of that a listen... images/icons/smile.gif

SkavenRMD

02-21-2003, 02:55 AM

I remember seeing some very early pictures of the max payne model in the pelit magazine. Do you have any of those Max "in the beginning" - pictures?We don't have any pictures of those... well, maybe in some ancient dusty screenshot archives, but I have no idea where those might be.

biXen

02-21-2003, 04:11 AM

These are the two oldest screenshots I've ever found of Max Payne:

http://www.paynereactor.com/images/screenshots/9899-32.jpg
and
http://www.paynereactor.com/images/screenshots/9899-20.jpg

With the look of Max himself, this is the oldest one:
http://www.paynereactor.com/images/screenshots/9899-07.jpg

(still looks like he's constipated eh?) images/icons/wink.gif

It seems Remedy got a bit more careful with the media after this period of time, so I haven't seen any concept art of either Max, or earlier screenshots of him. And Petri (Project Lead on MP1) didn't want to give out anything either, eventhough he didn't think he had anything laying around. (I was writing an article about the history of Max Payne)

Jade

02-21-2003, 04:19 AM

Originally posted by biXen:
These are the two oldest screenshots I've ever found of Max Payne:

http://www.paynereactor.com/images/screenshots/9899-32.jpg
and
http://www.paynereactor.com/images/screenshots/9899-20.jpg

With the look of Max himself, this is the oldest one:
http://www.paynereactor.com/images/screenshots/9899-07.jpg

(still looks like he's constipated eh?) images/icons/wink.gif
He looked a lot different...besides the outfit...

Who's that giant in the second screen?

SkavenRMD

02-21-2003, 06:05 AM

Who's that giant in the second screen?The original story went so that Valkyr was not only a mind-warping drug, but also body-warping. It would make its users grow into hulking giants with glowing green eyes. This was supposed to make them better soldiers (Valkyr was originally a military project, remember?).

Since that was a bit silly (and was already done in SiN anyway), we left it out of the story.

Jade

02-21-2003, 06:22 AM

Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Who's that giant in the second screen?The original story went so that Valkyr was not only a mind-warping drug, but also body-warping. It would make its users grow into hulking giants with glowing green eyes. This was supposed to make them better soldiers (Valkyr was originally a military project, remember?).

Since that was a bit silly (and was already done in SiN anyway), we left it out of the story. <hr /></blockquote>Mmmm...I'm happy you left it out...the story wouldn't been great as it's images/icons/smile.gif

biXen

02-21-2003, 06:59 AM

The graphics in these shots look like Dead To Rights or Enter the Matrix or something images/icons/tongue.gif

I might publish that article of mine on the history of Max, as it seems many people know little about it. Remedy is gonna hate that though, to see how bad it all looked back then, should be a good reminder though images/icons/grin.gif (I'm one of the few that actually thought that look was kinda cool)

Jade

02-21-2003, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by biXen:

I might publish that article of mine on the history of Max, as it seems many people know little about it. Remedy is gonna hate that though, to see how bad it all looked back then, should be a good reminder though images/icons/grin.gif (I'm one of the few that actually thought that look was kinda cool) It's nice to see the evolution of the game since the first sketches and screenshots...bad or good they could be, I think all MP fan would find it cool images/icons/wink.gif images/icons/smile.gif

Jokke_r

02-22-2003, 06:54 AM

Is the third pic that Bixen posted from a early version of cold steel?

so did you really "finish" the game, and then you made it all again from scratch?

+why didn't you put in those "real" shadows and floor reflections (those that reflect characters n stuff) that madonion.com did in the lobby scene in 3DMark 2001

[ 02-22-2003, 06:57 AM: Message edited by: Jokke_r ]

biXen

02-22-2003, 07:00 AM

Originally posted by Jokke_r:
Is the third pic that Bixen posted from a early version of cold steel?

so did you really "finish" the game, and then you made it all again from scratch?

+why didn't you put in those "real" shadows and floor reflections (those that reflect characters n stuff) that madonion.com did in the lobby scene in 3DMark 2001 I think that would be cold steel yep. And they've said most of the game was re-made or changed a lot during the last 1 1/2 years or so...

The 3D Mark 2001 stuff is made by MadOnion (FutureMark) themselves for that demo, it wasn't an engine feature, they had the source to modify it for their need. It also demands too much for the specs that Max Payne had at the time...

Medic

02-22-2003, 07:32 AM

So will that MP2 engine have all those nice details like mirrors, etc... ?

Karthik

02-22-2003, 08:22 AM

Hopefully they do!

biXen

02-22-2003, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by Medic:
So will that MP2 engine have all those nice details like mirrors, etc... ? It will probably have more features, but it's still aimed at average computers, so they can't do any heavy stuff. Expect it to look better, I doubt they can do mirrors (that includes characters) without rewriting a lot of stuff... so I doubt it...

PetriRMD

02-25-2003, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by biXen:
It seems Remedy got a bit more careful with the media after this period of time, so I haven't seen any concept art of either Max, or earlier screenshots of him. And Petri (Project Lead on MP1) didn't want to give out anything either, eventhough he didn't think he had anything laying around. (I was writing an article about the history of Max Payne) [/QB]*sigh* Bixen, honestly I just wish those images would go away. We released some shots _way_ too early and it makes me cringe to see them nowadays :-)

Medic

02-25-2003, 08:56 AM

I think it was nice to see those. I really don't care if they are primitive. It is just nice to know how the game came to be what it is now... : images/icons/cool.gif

PetriRMD

02-25-2003, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by biXen:
These shots will hunt you forever Yeah, that's certainly part of why we're not releasing anything on Max2. I guess we've learned our lesson. images/icons/wink.gif

nielsv

02-25-2003, 01:55 PM

Found this a looooooooong time ago: Image (http://www.geocities.com/ridders_of_kortrijk/sketch.jpg)
Sorry, I have to put the url, otherwise it won't show (damn geocities... images/icons/mad.gif )

[ 02-25-2003, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: nielsv ]

PlayfulPuppy

02-25-2003, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by PetriRMD:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by biXen:
These shots will hunt you forever Yeah, that's certainly part of why we're not releasing anything on Max2. I guess we've learned our lesson. images/icons/wink.gif <hr /></blockquote>Actually I wish developers would keep public 'developer diaries', updated every months or so.

I take a round of screenshots of my games every month, including a feature count. And I never feel ashamed or bored going through the old archives... it always makes me feel good to realise how far the game has progressed. ^_^

Jade

02-25-2003, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by PlayfulPuppy:

I take a round of screenshots of my games every month, including a feature count. And I never feel ashamed or bored going through the old archives... it always makes me feel good to realise how far the game has progressed. ^_^ I totally agree, that's why I asked for old stuff images/icons/smile.gif

SkavenRMD

02-25-2003, 02:45 PM

Nielsv; Found this a looooooooong time ago: (Image )Oh boy, there's quite a story behind that image. Some magazine insisted we send them some level concept art. But we didn't have any! Seriously. All the design work started with simple diagrams on paper, then the "look test" was already made in MaxED. No concept art was necessary. But since they kept insisting, we took a screenshot of one level, and traced it on a lightbox to give them some "concept art". images/icons/grin.gif

PlayfulPuppy; Actually I wish developers would keep public 'developer diaries', updated every months or so.But you have to understand that some developers specifically choose not to do these for valid reasons. And the fact keeping and updating these diaries (even just once a month) takes time away from the development of the actual game is only one of them.

[ 02-25-2003, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: SkavenRMD ]

biXen

02-25-2003, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by PetriRMD:
Yeah, that's certainly part of why we're not releasing anything on Max2. I guess we've learned our lesson. images/icons/wink.gif DOH images/icons/wink.gif

Well I can understand the "no Developer Diaries" part, afterall the whole world is looking this way, and just a little thing might be stolen, and if nothing is there to be stolen it's probably not even interesting images/icons/smile.gif To be honest I'm a bit glad Remedy doesn't release too much, don't have to be so pissed in VE3D Comments because some idiots say the shots look ugly because of some twisted reason they invent (probably some Doom3 related stuff at this time) images/icons/grin.gif

(and REALLY seriously, it's also because I trust Remedy to do everything well thougt out and so on, so I expect the shots to own when they come) images/icons/smile.gif

PlayfulPuppy

02-25-2003, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
PlayfulPuppy; <blockquote>quote:<hr />Actually I wish developers would keep public 'developer diaries', updated every months or so.But you have to understand that some developers specifically choose not to do these for valid reasons. And the fact keeping and updating these diaries (even just once a month) takes time away from the development of the actual game is only one of them. [/QB]<hr /></blockquote>Well we're not releasing them publically at this point, as some people have probably noticed, and also with good reason (You cant tell everyone what you're working on these days, ruins the suprise!)

The reason why we're actually keeping one is because we're fans of extras on CDs, and plan on releasing some sort of 'making of' in the end, even if it only interests us personally. images/icons/smile.gif

And updating it isn't really a problem, we've got a little PHP database that we just have to type into and submit, which automatically searches for new screenshots in the game directory. It's actually a nice little way to keep organised, and really handy if you're doing any form of version tracking.

biXen

02-26-2003, 12:59 AM

Originally posted by PetriRMD:
*sigh* Bixen, honestly I just wish those images would go away. We released some shots _way_ too early and it makes me cringe to see them nowadays :-) Hehe, well those 3 is one thing, the other's aren't that bad IMO, the maps look kinda good for it's time anyway. These shots will hunt you forever Petri, and I'll make sure my history on Max Payne is linked up on VE, Blues News and the other newssites if I do it, so everyone get's to see the good old payne shots;) (or you can just give me some Max Payne 2 shots to replace them with) images/icons/tongue.gif