The most difficult thing in making MP?!

[Karthik]

Just curious but were there any scenes or things that made you pull out of your hair, scream in anger or unplug the PC and throw it down the staircase?!

[Jokke_r]

i think i read somewhere that the helicopter (which was made in maxed) was the most hardest part about the level making.

[FreDsom]

Those toiletes must have been a payne in the ass too..

[Karthik]

Originally posted by FreDsom:
Those toiletes must have been a payne in the ass too.. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">graemlins/brickwall.gif

[SkavenRMD]

Each person working on the game had their own personal development nightmares.

For me, it was probably the graphic novel voice dialogues - mainly because of the sheer volume of them combined with the tight deadline. Some certain animations were also quite difficult to do, and at the end of the project I still wasn't satisfied with some of them.

The "leap forward" animation was particularly tricky. It has to look like the character anticipates the jump (ie. crouches a bit to gain momentum), yet still it must respond to the jump key immediately - so there's actually no time to anticipate. And then it has to run for a very specific subject-to-change length before it switches to the "falling" animation. I'm still not happy with the way it turned out.

[Sam]

Mapping-wise I would have to say that the first thing that comes to mind is Boolean ops. I suppose keeping multiple save files helps, but it really just seems like a hassle at times.

[Medic]

I think that there must have been moments like this:
someone was making a level and the editor crashed "voi v***u s*****a p*****e! toi saamarin kone tilttas!!!!!! enkä ollu tallentanu!!". (quick translation: "f**k! This g**d**n computer did it again! And I had not even saved the level yet!!")

[FreDsom]

Originally posted by Sam:
Mapping-wise I would have to say that the first thing that comes to mind is Boolean ops. I suppose keeping multiple save files helps, but it really just seems like a hassle at times. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There are times when you have done/made somthing that involves lots of work, and then right before you are about to save, maxed crashes on you images/icons/mad.gif

[FreDsom]

what about the mapping? Did maxed crash often when you made MP?

[Karthik]

Originally posted by FreDsom:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sam:
Mapping-wise I would have to say that the first thing that comes to mind is Boolean ops. I suppose keeping multiple save files helps, but it really just seems like a hassle at times. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There are times when you have done/made somthing that involves lots of work, and then right before you are about to save, maxed crashes on you images/icons/mad.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Could be caused by Microsoft?!

[Cathome]

Could be caused by Microsoft?! <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Really. Sometimes, when I was just about to save, Windows said there was not enough memory. Dont think it's whole MED fault.

[Maddieman]

The "leap forward" animation was particularly tricky. It has to look like the character anticipates the jump (ie. crouches a bit to gain momentum), yet still it must respond to the jump key immediately - so there's actually no time to anticipate. And then it has to run for a very specific subject-to-change length before it switches to the "falling" animation. I'm still not happy with the way it turned out. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You'd probably get a kick out of my attempts for that animation. images/icons/smile.gif

I didn't want to use the original or the kung fu one in my mod, so I thought the smart thing to do would be to make my own... graemlins/doh.gif graemlins/doh.gif graemlins/doh.gif

Trying to figure out how the falling/landing stuff works was a nightmare. I planned to change it into a falling attack, so that you could land on enemies and stab them. Pfft...didn't work: - the falling assumes that you're still falling, and the landing assumes you've already hit the ground. The key bit in-between (where one would stab one's target) is missing. In the end, I think I deleted everything in shame except for the falling animation. images/icons/blush.gif

[FreDsom]

Really. Sometimes, when I was just about to save, Windows said there was not enough memory. Dont think it's whole MED fault.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I would say it's MaxEd that's causes windows to give you this error, or you just have a low amount of ram.

Another aspect is your computer, 60 % of my errors disapeared when I got a new computer. Of course windows aslo plays a part in this error mayhem.. images/icons/frown.gif

[biXen]

I save every 20 minutes or so, and before every big boolean stuff (don't boolean that much actually, if I do I mostly do a lot of it at the same time). Except for boolean errors I haven't had MaxED crashing many times, can be counted on one hand at least...

[Maddieman]

Regarding saving practise on animations, I don't just save after every half-hour/significant progress; I tend to save it as another version. That way, by the time it's finished I'll have 5-20 versions from which I can roll back to, if I don't like the final result. These last few months I've been working quicker and the amount of versions for each animation has reduced quite significantly.

With entire mods I tend to back-up the entire contents of my data folder and any resources (animations, characters, etc) onto a new CD; usually on a monthly/fortnightly basis. For added measure I sometimes upload it to for someone to make a separate copy (in this case, that would be StratonAce, it used to be Zer0).

[ 02-24-2003, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: Maddieman ]

[biXen]

Well I would have thought that was obvious, I've barely started and have 30 steps of my level images/icons/wink.gif I have an open-session CD which I save to all the time in case my HD goes to hell. As my CD archive, which keeps track of all the content of my burned cds which is searchable, always keeping a backup of that one online. Would be hell to lose it and index 100+ cds again images/icons/grin.gif (it's automatic, but still)...

[Maddieman]

As obvious as it is, the one time you forget to make a new save is always the one time when you lose everything.

[FreDsom]

exactly images/icons/wink.gif

[biXen]

Not to mention when you haven't modded in a few weeks due to other things and decide to do a reinstall of XP with a format of C: forgetting that the maps are stored in Program Files images/icons/smile.gif Fun fun fun... well, I would have remade it anyway if I needed the level.

[Karthik]

Wow! Nightmare stories. I love it. Is MaxED harder to use than unrealED?!

[Maddieman]

I don't think so...I played about with duke nukem 3d's 'build' for about a year before I got Max, and I'd say they were pretty similar in many areas. Draw an area on the ground, raise and lower the ceilings, etc..

The unreal and quake mapping programs are a bit daunting to me, but it's just a case of learning a new method or program.

For creating basic, indoor rooms, MaxEd is pretty simple to use. The only problems occur, first when you're figuring out exits for the first time, and then later when you're doing more complex boolean operations for detailed geometry.

The problem I have with the custom maps available for Max Payne, is that mappers seem to have a real fear of FSM messaging and ai scripting. They think that they can get away with just placing an enemy behind a door or around the corner, and leave it to the game to do the rest. But that's a different story. images/icons/wink.gif

Back on topic though, MaxEd seems to be a little unstable on some systems; then again, so is Max Payne, so..

[Sam]

Mappers have a real fear of FSMs and AI? Well, I don't know about anyone else, but that seems to be my favorite part about mapping.

[Maddieman]

Cool -- there should be more mappers like you; but so far, I haven't seen many yet -- all of the focus goes into the geometry.

[Mrd4]

I hate geometry. Coding all the way!

[Maddieman]

Alright, alright; emphasis on "But that's a different story images/icons/wink.gif " - I didn't intend to throw the thread off topic. If you're so inclined, read this thread:

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=001712#000000

...the subject was discussed extensively: