Rise of the Source Code! [Archive]

Joe Siegler

12-20-2002, 09:34 AM

And you thought it would never happen...

Today we're doing something I bet most everyone out there thought we'd never do. No, it's not Duke Nukem Forever, but something some folks on the net have been asking us to do for ages. Today we're releasing the source code to Rise of the Triad! The source is being released under the GPL license, and we still retain copyright on the game (plus we still sell (http://store.yahoo.com/3drealms/riseoftriad.html) Rise of the Triad), but folks have been asking for something like this for a long time, and here it is.

We are dedicating the release of the Rise of the Triad Source code to our late friend and Rise of the Triad programmer William Scarboro, who died tragically back in early August of 2002. I'm sure if he were still with us, William would be happy to see this out there, and see what folks might do with the code.

In the archive are some thoughts about Rise of the Triad by Tom Hall (the game's producer), and Scott Miller (Apogee/3DR CEO/Founder). You can check out the readme here (http://www.3drealms.com/stuff/rottsourcereadme.txt) before downloading the entire archive. In addition to this file, we have several other ROTT related downlods available - check out our ROTT page (http://www.3drealms.com/rott/index.html) for the full list.

The folks reading this who aren't programmers probably won't have any interest in this, but those who are programmers might want to check it out. You can download the file (which is roughly 4Mb zipped) here:

ftp://ftp.3drealms.com/source/rottsource.zip

Enjoy! Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to everyone. See ya next year!

The Stinger

12-20-2002, 09:49 AM

This is great \o/
Too bad I can't code =\
I hope someone will make a windows port with tcp/ip support so you can play it online images/icons/smile.gif

jimbob

12-20-2002, 09:56 AM

\o/ yeey \o/

now to get a copy of rott

Beastrow

12-20-2002, 09:59 AM

Too bad I can't code =\
I hope someone will make a windows port with tcp/ip support so you can play it online I'm with you there, Stinger. Hope someone moves fast!

Logic Bomb

12-20-2002, 10:10 AM

I wish it was still sold in stores images/icons/frown.gif

I hope someone does make this an online game, that would rock images/icons/smile.gif

- Logic BomB

Crosma

12-20-2002, 10:11 AM

/me cries

I'm so happy! I'm sooo happpyyy!

Drazula

12-20-2002, 10:24 AM

Woot! Woot!

Way to go 3DR!!! Thank you very much! images/icons/grin.gif Now if I can find the time to port it to the Vavoom engine...

[ 12-20-2002, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Drazula ]

Joe Siegler

12-20-2002, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by Logic Bomb:
I wish it was still sold in stores images/icons/frown.gif http://store.yahoo.com/3drealms/riseoftriad.html

images/icons/confused.gif

X-human

12-20-2002, 11:25 AM

You've done good 3D Realms, you've done very good.

I now know the true meaning of Christmas!

Prodigy

12-20-2002, 11:25 AM

You almost gave me a heart attack, I thought you were releasing the DN3D source images/icons/grin.gif

Yay, that's great news nonetheless, thanks 3DR ! images/icons/smile.gif

Joe Siegler

12-20-2002, 11:26 AM

UPDATE: Just realized that 8 years ago tomorrow (the 21st) was the release of v1.0 sharware of Rise of the Triad online. This source release was released almost 8 years to the day that we originally released the game in the first place! images/icons/smile.gif

Crezzy_man

12-20-2002, 01:45 PM

2 words - Rott High-Resolution

nyne

12-20-2002, 02:29 PM

\m/

3DRealms....you rule.

Lon Matero

12-20-2002, 03:50 PM

Full source release under the GPL? Yes! This is unprecedented for Apogee! I suppose this is the second xmas gift we’ve been waiting for since last year? images/icons/smile.gif I think I’ll be opening a new section on my website now for this source code, and maybe host modifications.

Probably the first order of business here is to strip out the old audio library and other unneeded/Watcom-only portions, then try to port this thing over so it will compile in Visual Studio. Also looks like there are a few assembly files that need to be eliminated or converted to C, but not too many.

Lets get moving!

- Lon Matero
http://www.apogeegames.com

Flaose

12-20-2002, 04:03 PM

AMAZING JOE! You finally did it!

Here's hoping for some updated gameplay (like NewWolf or Doom Legacy) and online compatibility soon!

Originally Posted by Logic Bomb
I wish it was still sold in stores images/icons/frown.gif I got mine at a (Real Canadian) Superstore a little more than a year ago. It's a long shot, but maybe you should try looking there...

happinesshotel

12-20-2002, 04:05 PM

My jaw dropped as I read the announcement earlier today. I sat stupified as a mental wave of memories curled up as a dragon's tongue might and slapped down upon me......awash in memories of long ago... The memories of ROTT began to float by, a small starfish there symbolizing a room with friends long forgotten huddled around a brightly lit screen, watching in wonder as ROTT was being played. Fade out the starfish as an eel swings by bringing more memories of ROTT and along with it, more familiar faces and places where I spent time with other ROTT lovers. The water retracts and the memories fade once more... though I remain damp with pleasant thoughts of a time long ago, a time when games were less graphics intensive, and more enjoyable. I run my parched tongue across the sharpness of my teeth and press on to registering in the 3dRealms forums, a place I've been lurking anonymously for much too long.

In closing, thank you for releasing the source code, and the news that sent me back to a time of happy thoughts.

[ 12-20-2002, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: happinesshotel ]

Joe Siegler

12-20-2002, 04:16 PM

Someone in another thread had an idea.

Do you think I should open a forum dedicated to ROTT programming and editing of the available source code?

As we've never released source code before, I didn't consider opening a forum specifically for that. Thoughts?

Bludd

12-20-2002, 04:22 PM

Yeah, you should. I'm not saying I'm gonna hack around with the ROTT source, because of my poor grasp of anything but Java, but I'd be really interested to see what people can come up with.

I like to browse the Max Payne Editing/Mods forum just to see what stunts they manage to pull, and I imagine I'll do the same if a ROTT forum will be made.

Of course, it wouldn't be worth it if nobody would come there, so maybe you should do a front-page poll or something to that effect.

I should stop before my rambling take over. images/icons/smile.gif

Edit: Oh, and another thing, this is a really nice christmas gift. I still remember how cool I thought it was when you turned on god-mode and you could see the POV being raised a bit higher from the floor and the voice being lowered. Very cool detail images/icons/smile.gif

[ 12-20-2002, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: Bludd ]

happinesshotel

12-20-2002, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by Joe3DR:
Do you think I should open a forum dedicated to ROTT programming and editing of the available source code? My opinion: sure, so long as it's limited to the discussion of ROTT programming and editing and doesn't turn into a political/philosophical/off-topic monster.

Bludd

12-20-2002, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by happinesshotel:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Joe3DR:
Do you think I should open a forum dedicated to ROTT programming and editing of the available source code? My opinion: sure, so long as it's limited to the discussion of ROTT programming and editing and doesn't turn into a political/philosophical/off-topic monster. <hr /></blockquote>That's what moderating (i.e. Joe) and report post is for (which leads to moderating). images/icons/smile.gif

Joe Siegler

12-20-2002, 04:30 PM

Poll now on main 3DR website. images/icons/smile.gif

GetSome

12-20-2002, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by Joe3DR:
Do you think I should open a forum dedicated to ROTT programming and editing of the available source code?If its not too much trouble. In the spirit of collaboration, in the interest of moving things along as quickly as possible, and most importantly, keeping this work in house, I think you should.

happinesshotel

12-20-2002, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by Bludd:
That's what moderating (i.e. Joe) and report post is for (which leads to moderating). images/icons/smile.gif Yes, thank you, I know. I've participated in on-line forums on and off the internet since prior to the net becoming popular. Regarding the poll, 9I'm on my way to vote so I haven't seen it yet, but) I hope the ROTT programming/editing forum sees life here on 3dRealms.com. One reason why it may not if based upon a poll (if it fails) would probably be due to the small amount of coders that visit this site compared to the number of people who just play games.

I raise a glass with the hope it passes.

Joe Siegler

12-20-2002, 04:40 PM

Oh, it probably will, even if the poll fails. I was just curious, hence the poll. images/icons/smile.gif

happinesshotel

12-20-2002, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by Joe3DR:
Oh, it probably will, even if the poll fails. I was just curious, hence the poll. images/icons/smile.gif Joy (http://www.muppetcentral.com/cards/sent/sp_thanks2.jpg)

[ 12-20-2002, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: happinesshotel ]

happinesshotel

12-20-2002, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by happinesshotel:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Joe3DR:
Oh, it probably will, even if the poll fails. I was just curious, hence the poll. images/icons/smile.gif Joy (http://www.muppetcentral.com/cards/sent/sp_thanks2.jpg) <hr /></blockquote>It's turning out to be a
very (http://www.muppetcentral.com/cards/sent/par_piggy5.jpg) interesting holiday season indeed. (http://www.muppetcentral.com/cards/sent/par_piggy7.jpg)

MrEricSir

12-20-2002, 04:49 PM

Wait... so is this the second New Year's gift from last year?

It's cool to see the code, although I admit that I have no real use for it. Maybe someone could make a Windows version, with modern internet multiplayer capabilities, if anyone cares enough.

Joe Siegler

12-20-2002, 04:59 PM

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=24

The new forum has been created, and as such, I'm moving this thread over there.

CYBDMN

12-20-2002, 05:06 PM

Yippieh

Nothing more to say.

Test Tickle

12-20-2002, 05:14 PM

To Quote the Great Coach Paul "Bear" Bryant

WE GONNA WORK NOW!!!!!!

Kev_Boy

12-20-2002, 05:29 PM

Nice, although I can't do anything with it images/icons/tongue.gif

Joe Siegler

12-20-2002, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by Kev Boy:
Nice, although I can't do anything with it images/icons/tongue.gif Neither can I (I'm NO programmer), but I'm curious to see what folks can come up with, as I'm probably the strongest supporter of ROTT that's still here. images/icons/smile.gif

Brick_Sledge

12-20-2002, 06:22 PM

I don't even own the full version yet. images/icons/blush.gif images/icons/blush.gif images/icons/blush.gif

Kev_Hectic

12-20-2002, 06:34 PM

Wow! What a surprise, and right around Christmas time too. Looks like 3DR was generous enough to give people on this board a Christmas present after all images/icons/smile.gif

... Unfortunitly for me though, I have never played RoTT, I completely missed because I didn't own a PC back then images/icons/frown.gif

I wonder if you guys still sell the game Joe?

Joe Siegler

12-20-2002, 06:38 PM

Yes, we still sell it. In fact, I mentioned it more than once in this thread! images/icons/smile.gif

http://store.yahoo.com/3drealms/riseoftriad.html

IceColdDuke

12-20-2002, 07:13 PM

Just incase people have not read "GlRott" thread. I am starting the GlRott project. I have submitted a reguest on SourceForge.

I need Programmers, Modelers, good re-texturing people, etc.

Kalki

12-21-2002, 12:04 AM

Great going 3DRealms!

mysteryperfecta

12-21-2002, 12:20 AM

I don't have a lick of interest in this, but I commend the gesture. 3dr does listen to it's fans (except Drazula and me). images/icons/smile.gif

Hudson

12-21-2002, 12:53 AM

HELL YEAH! I haven't been this happy since I got the tumor removed from my testicles! This is truly the greatest gift you could have given us this year and I want to personally thank everyone at 3d Realms for giving this to us! I cannot wait to get started making a next-gen TC for this game. I know the programming talent on these boards can whip up a source port that will 0wn even Doom Legacy. This is truly a great day for gamers!

Kev_Hectic

12-21-2002, 01:06 AM

Man I was typing this when the forums died for a short while...

Anyway, maybe I should have read the thread images/icons/smile.gif Maybe it would be a good idea to put that link on the top of this forum as a way to keep people from coming in here and asking the same question over and over again.

And BTW, after searching around the net I found the demo at 3DGamers.com and tried it out. After getting use to the low-res (harsh on the eyes) cube-ish graphics and lack of proper mouse look & jump button I have to say its a fun game.

From what I played so far ROTT seems to have some pretty interesting gameplay. It's sort of a mix between console platformers like Mario (with those weird springboards and tokens that can be collected) and a typical FPS. There seems to be some pretty sweet weapons as well, like akimbo guns and a drunken missile launcher! Cool images/icons/grin.gif

While this game doesn't have mouse look I noticed it does have a look button that you can hold down while moving the mouse to look around (Without being able to walk forward or back). I wonder if it's possible (not for me, since I know sh*t about programming) to adjust that so it would work the same way that mouse look/movement would in newer FPS's. Maybe change the "aim hold key" to "toggle”, speed up how fast you look around (It lags in ROTT I noticed) and change the up & down arrow keys that look up and down to walk forward and backwards.

Also (Just to put more ideas in your heads) a scroll wheel funtion would be pretty sweet for switching weapons images/icons/grin.gif

MrFilbble

12-21-2002, 01:56 AM

Here are some cool quotes/flamebait from the slashdot page on the topic

On second thought, not to be disrespectful, and keeping up our good cheer...Maybe if the rest of 3DRealms died, we would get the *remnants* of the Duke Nukem Forever sourcecode released.images/icons/shocked.gif ouch!!
Another DNF flame
I think the whole Duke Nukem Whenever project is actually a front, and George Broussard and company are developing code for Carnivore, Magic Lantern, and other applications that have kept Janet Reno and John Ashcroft happy over the last four years. With the Patriot act and Homeland security, they are way to busy to make any games.

I wish I had a job where I never had to show results, and only had to produce 10 year-old code to make people happy.

Hail to the king, baby!1 word: images/icons/shocked.gif

And most of the other comments were prasing ROTT, rightfully, as cool, "Paradigm altering"

Those comments in the readme from Scott Miller and Tom Hall are so cool and informative.
(Wonder what ROTT would be like under build, guess that is why they were willing to switch DNF over to unreal)

Joe Siegler

12-21-2002, 03:23 AM

Don't forget to read this:

http://www.classicgaming.com/rott/hell/

It's totally AWESOME!

Yenz

12-21-2002, 08:27 AM

I'm away on a 2 day shopping holiday with my gf in Copenhagen and I have no accese to interett and u have to realease it just that day of the year when I don't have accese to the net, shame on u guys images/icons/wink.gif
Marry x-may

P.s.
Want Duke 3d sourse code for new year images/icons/wink.gif

Daedalus

12-21-2002, 11:10 AM

Cool, the rottsource.zip includes the RTSMaker source! images/icons/cool.gif

With this it should be possible to create a WAD viewer/editor - running in Win32 or Linux - for Duke3D's and ROTT's RTS files and for DOOM's wad files. images/icons/cool.gif

Vetek

12-21-2002, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by Lon Matero:
I think I’ll be opening a new section on my website now for this source code, and maybe host modifications.
Not if I do it first! graemlins/hhg.gif

I can't wait to see what the coders of these boards will do with it!

Night Hacker

12-22-2002, 12:13 AM

Thanks alot 3DRealms, I still remember posts not that long ago begging for this source code that was lost for a time. I already downloaded it and am looking forward to checking it out and seeing if I can port it at all.

Joe; I honestly think you should include a link to <a href="http://www.3dgamers.com/news/more/1040402807/" target="_blank">3DGamers.com
</a>

They have the ROTT source plus shareware and other ROTT files on thier site and thier site has always been a real pleasure to download from (and fast) with no waits like on fileplanet. The link above take you directly to the page with the news about the ROTT source release.

Anyhow, it's nice to see some source released finally. I own the game, but all people need to test the code out is the shareware version.

The Bad Guy

12-22-2002, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by Prodigy:
You almost gave me a heart attack, I thought you were releasing the DN3D source images/icons/grin.gif

Yay, that's great news nonetheless, thanks 3DR ! images/icons/smile.gif I thought it was the D3D source code too! Dammit!

Guest

12-22-2002, 06:05 PM

well, here's punishment for not reading the forums for a week...

ROTT source code, eh?

It seems my work here is done images/icons/grin.gif

Now lets see if all the "release ROTT source" people are going to do something with it, I surely hope so.

JR Ewing

12-22-2002, 08:34 PM

Words can't describe how shocked and happy I am about this!!! I would've never thought this day would actually come. But hey, anything is possible images/icons/wink.gif Thanks 3DR

Rott King

12-22-2002, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by Joe3DR:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Kev Boy:
Nice, although I can't do anything with it images/icons/tongue.gif Neither can I (I'm NO programmer), but I'm curious to see what folks can come up with, as I'm probably the strongest supporter of ROTT that's still here. images/icons/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>There at 3DR or here in general? I'm pretty sure my love for ROTT can rival yours! images/icons/tongue.gif

Lengis

12-23-2002, 12:21 AM

Wow, the source code was finally released, and it only took em 8 years to do it.

Hate to burst everyone's bubble, but I got the feeling nothing meaningfull is gona happen. People are talking about things similar to Doom Legacy, online play, etc.. Well that stuff came out for Doom cuz Doom had a huge fan base, and it still does.

ROTT well, doesn't. The meager band of fans for ROTT probably doesn't include too many programmers, let alone "good ones".

Oh well, merry christmas images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Guest

12-23-2002, 12:32 AM

Originally posted by MrFibbles:
(Wonder what ROTT would be like under build, guess that is why they were willing to switch DNF over to unreal) on that note, I wonder what ROTT would look like with the Unreal engine images/icons/tongue.gif

Joe Siegler

12-23-2002, 12:43 AM

Originally posted by Lengis:
ROTT well, doesn't. The meager band of fans for ROTT probably doesn't include too many programmers, let alone "good ones". COUGH (http://forums.3drealms.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=000010)

Don't be such a pessimist images/icons/smile.gif

Drazula

12-23-2002, 07:47 AM

Originally posted by Lengis:
The meager band of fans for ROTT probably doesn't include too many programmers, let alone "good ones".Are you kidding? NOW I CAN CHANGE THE WORLD!!! images/icons/smile.gif

Rott King

12-23-2002, 03:03 PM

Be a little more optimistic Lengis images/icons/rolleyes.gif

IceColdDuke

12-23-2002, 04:10 PM

Since the ROTT fans(like me), have to make a whole new engine(based off the Tenebrae code), re-write most of the game...I mean how good of programmers are we? images/icons/smile.gif

Roger

12-23-2002, 09:05 PM

I just got thirty-five bucks in the mail from my aunt in Delaware. Look forward to some money coming for a copy of RotT. images/icons/wink.gif

Hudson

12-24-2002, 10:35 AM

3DRealms:

I am interested in creating mods for ROTT using these soon-to-come source ports and I was wondering if you had any special/specific tools/programs you used to import/compile the data (like the tools ken made for d3d) and if you do would you mind releasing them? I know that the latest version of GFE (Game File Explorer) allows the extraction of files, but I was hoping to get something a little more specific to the actual game. If not do you know of any you could recommend?

Catonga

12-24-2002, 02:06 PM

That's really great.

Thank's a lot for releasing the source code. images/icons/smile.gif

The Stinger

12-24-2002, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by Hudson:
3DRealms:

I am interested in creating mods for ROTT using these soon-to-come source ports and I was wondering if you had any special/specific tools/programs you used to import/compile the data (like the tools ken made for d3d) and if you do would you mind releasing them? I know that the latest version of GFE (Game File Explorer) allows the extraction of files, but I was hoping to get something a little more specific to the actual game. If not do you know of any you could recommend? http://doomworld.com/xwe/ - wad editor wich supports rott .. only tried extracting files though.
And there are some mapping programs on the 3dr download page - http://www.3drealms.com/downloads.html

Hudson

12-24-2002, 05:53 PM

Ok I can try those, I just wasnt sure if the ones listed on the FTP page were the ones they used to create ROTT. If not they should still work out, but if 3DR does have any stashed away and would like to share that would be cool too.. if not its cool cause this year they gave us something a HELL of alot better than any world peace and good will towards men images/icons/grin.gif

Kev_Hectic

12-25-2002, 07:32 PM

I didn't think this was big enough news to be in its own thread, but it seems that a conversation has popped up at the DCemu message board about a possible port to the Sega Dreamcast.

Take a look (http://www.dcemulation.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=24491) images/icons/grin.gif

The Stinger

12-25-2002, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by Kev_Hectic:
I didn't think this was big enough news to be in its own thread, but it seems that a conversation has popped up at the DCemu message board about a possible port to the Sega Dreamcast.

Take a look (http://www.dcemulation.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=24491) images/icons/grin.gif thats sweet.. but doesnt that require to make it an iso and copy it that way or is it going to be a self make iso thing if you have the full version of rott?

Kev_Hectic

12-25-2002, 08:38 PM

^ Ummm crap... I'm not really sure what you mean Stinger? Are you asking me if you would have to copy the level files and stuff from the full ROTT game (or shareware version) and burn them to a disc with a bunch of files made to make it run on the DC? images/icons/confused.gif

Joe Siegler

12-25-2002, 09:42 PM

Keep in mind, ROTT is still commercial software, it is not legal to copy the registered CD, or burn an ISO of it (and give said copy to anyone else).

[ 12-26-2002, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Joe3DR ]

Rott King

12-26-2002, 01:05 AM

Eh, let's get off the subject before this thread gets closed or something. graemlins/doh.gif

Joe Siegler

12-26-2002, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by Rott King:
Eh, let's get off the subject before this thread gets closed or something. graemlins/doh.gif Indeed.

Kev_Hectic

12-26-2002, 11:14 AM

^ Yeah, sorry about that. The legal issue thing slipped my mind graemlins/doh.gif

Dave2

12-26-2002, 05:19 PM

How the hell did I miss this? :S

Anyway, all I can say is... "w00t"! I really love ROTT, but playing it on modern hardware is... slightly nauseating. I hope coders pick up on this quickly.

I still don't know how I missed this... it even had a /. article O_o

john2gr

12-27-2002, 07:30 PM

IceColdDuke........does this mean that you've stopped working on the GL port of the Duke Nukem 3D ?

IceColdDuke

12-27-2002, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by john2gr:
IceColdDuke........does this mean that you've stopped working on the GL port of the Duke Nukem 3D ? I stoped it due to lack of interest in the community. images/icons/frown.gif I could not program the entire thing myself....if anyone is still interested...the files are still up on sourceforge.

john2gr

12-27-2002, 08:41 PM

I thought you were starting programming in another engine (not Build in which you said it was too difficult).Damn it was getting so good.Hope that someone will continue it.Thnx in advance though for making it and for starting porting ROTT images/icons/smile.gif .

Flaose

12-27-2002, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by: IceColdDuke
I stoped it due to lack of interest in the community. images/icons/frown.gif I could not program the entire thing myself....if anyone is still interested...the files are still up on sourceforge.It's been a freakin' week! Some work ethic... images/icons/rolleyes.gif

TeamKill

12-27-2002, 10:54 PM

W00t! I'm very glad that the Rott source was released!

I had some ideas for anyone doing the source ports, btw. The first is something like what they did with Doom/Boom with the removing of the limits. Rott has a certain number of floorcodes, right? Why not make it so that Rott has a ton more floors codes, around the area of 32,767. To keep the editors from having to be updated, make it so that we really don't need to add floorcodes anymore, except when we want to make it to where enemies can hear you from beyond the door or whatever. Then, when the map loads, the game will automatically generate the missing floorcodes.

Also, I had a small idea for angled walls. Not ones of any angle, but at a fixed 45 degrees. Some time ago, there was a Genesis game called "Zero Tolorence" (now public domain, IIRC). It had a Wolf-like engine, but also had 45-degree walls that took up exactly one tile. We could make two new infotiles that would add an angled effect to any wall. The renderer could just strech the image to fit. One for NE to SW, and one for NW to SE.

Anyway, my two ideas I had about 10 minutes ago.

ADM

12-28-2002, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by Flaose:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally Posted by: IceColdDuke
I stoped it due to lack of interest in the community. images/icons/frown.gif I could not program the entire thing myself....if anyone is still interested...the files are still up on sourceforge.It's been a freakin' week! Some work ethic... images/icons/rolleyes.gif <hr /></blockquote>No.

He was talking about cancelling his GLDuke3d project.

GLROTT is still going ahead strong.