MP2: Cel shading?

[Warmaster129]

Anyway, really when I say that MP2 should be cel-shaded I don't mean WindWaker cel shading.

I mean MP1 Graphic Novel-style cel-shading.

Think about it; wouldn't it be neat to play through a game similar to MP1 only in the "painted" style the graphic novel presented?
It would mean a hell of a lot of work on 3DR and T2's part, but hey, slap a WID on it and make it the best game to come along since DNF.

So what does everybody else think?

[RollingBrass]

Cel shading lacks the gritty look of the graphic novels. It would look too clean and goofy coupled with the subject matter.

[Devil Master]

Cel-shading = graemlins/mryuck.gif graemlins/mryuck.gif graemlins/mryuck.gif

[theHunted]

Originally posted by Warmaster129:
...It would mean a hell of a lot of work on 3DR and T2's part...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">no it wouldnt because they both have nothing to do with the actualy software developement part. only take 2 could tell the happy folks from Remedy what to improve or maybe get them some suggestions, but all the difficult part of developing is completely done by Remedy.

and although i think cell shading can look good (i remember that french sneak'n'hide game "Seven" that actually looked very cool) i also wouldnt like it in Max Payne. besides you're a little late with that, because cell shading would mean to rewrite parts of the game-engine (prolly affecting most of the characters and the whole animation system), and i seriously dont want another 2 year delay like Max Payne 1 was images/icons/smile.gif

[Chimera]

<idiot mode> whats cel shading? </idiot mode>

[theHunted]

basically its a way of making 3d-engines look 2d. the characters become completely flat and the whole environment looks completely cartoonsih. been invented by sega in jet-set radio if i remember correctly.

heres a few shots of games, using that technique.

http://adventures.ngenres.com/screens/132/e3zelda3.jpg

http://www.giochi.it/fnts/giochi/immagini/278x182/jsrfxbox11.jpg

[Warmaster129]

Originally posted by RollingBrass:
Cel shading lacks the gritty look of the graphic novels. It would look too clean and goofy coupled with the subject matter. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The point was to find a way to cel-shade and display the game in the style of the graphic novels.

[Joker]

Wouldn't introducing cel-shading now be like changing horses mid-stream? images/icons/tongue.gif

[Devil Master]

Originally posted by theHunted:
basically its a way of making 3d-engines look 2d. the characters become completely flat and the whole environment looks completely cartoonsih. been invented by sega in jet-set radio if i remember correctly.

heres a few shots of games, using that technique.

http://adventures.ngenres.com/screens/132/e3zelda3.jpg

http://www.giochi.it/fnts/giochi/immagini/278x182/jsrfxbox11.jpg <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And this demonstrates that cel-shaded games are http://www.fagot.pl/fagot/img/logo_fag.gif

[j]

Too many.. stupid people... must reply to all.. aaaargh!

Originally posted by theHunted:
basically its a way of making 3d-engines look 2d. the characters become completely flat and the whole environment looks completely cartoonsih. been invented by sega in jet-set radio if i remember correctly.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That might have been the first game to use it, but they sure as hell didn't invent it. Lightwave for example has had cartoon-shading plugins for as long as I can remember and the technique's been used in ads and music videos way before JSR.

Originally posted by Devil Master:
And this demonstrates that cel-shaded games are http://www.fagot.pl/fagot/img/logo_fag.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ri-ight. Always happy to hear an open-minded, unbiased opinion. When done right, cel-shading can look extremely cool and with games like Zelda, where the developers have aimed for an "interactive cartoon look", it fits perfectly.

I actually think what Warmaster suggested might look insanely cool, if done right. It wouldn't be exactly cel-shading though. And there's no way Remedy'd add it in if they haven't yet (and I'm pretty sure they haven't). Maybe for Max Payne 3, eh images/icons/cool.gif

[biXen]

Let's just say there's no way Remedy is going from photorealism to cel-shading images/icons/smile.gif Cel shaded cut scenes instead of the comic book might have been cool though... But can't you do the same with shitty lighting and some cartoony textures? images/icons/smile.gif Well, almost...

[Jokke_r]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

cell shading

[Mad_Max]

Originally posted by RollingBrass:
Cel shading lacks the gritty look of the graphic novels. It would look too clean and goofy coupled with the subject matter. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like he said. Since Max Payne is trying to be a dark and serious game, I wouldn't think that cell shading would help placing the player in the atmosphere the game tries to set. Cell shading usually is used to make games look more cartoony, and Max Payne isn't a cartoon.

[Warmaster129]

Originally posted by Mad_Max:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by RollingBrass:
Cel shading lacks the gritty look of the graphic novels. It would look too clean and goofy coupled with the subject matter. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like he said. Since Max Payne is trying to be a dark and serious game, I wouldn't think that cell shading would help placing the player in the atmosphere the game tries to set. Cell shading usually is used to make games look more cartoony, and Max Payne isn't a cartoon. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, it really wouldn't technically be cel shading.
What I was thinking of was for the game to take the image the player sees then put it into the style of the graphic novels from MP1, and I personally think the graphic novels perfectly capture the dark, gritty atmosphere of the game.

Everybody would have understood what I was talking about if I hadn't used the word cel-shading.
images/icons/rolleyes.gif

[The Baskinator]

Warmaster has asked an interesting question. Let's not let this boil down to another immature argument on this subject.

Even though it won't be done, I think cel-shading could fit Max Payne just fine. Killer 7, coming to the Gamecube, uses cel-shading, but manages to look very noir. Some early screenshots of Killer 7:

http://images.nintendo.com/nintendo/contents/gamepage/gamecontent/images/k/killer7jan03_gcn_ss03.jpg

http://images.nintendo.com/nintendo/contents/gamepage/gamecontent/images/k/killer7jan03_gcn_ss06.jpg

Doesn't look like a "kid's game" to me. images/icons/smile.gif

[RollingBrass]

Originally posted by The Baskinator:
Warmaster has asked an interesting question. Let's not let this boil down to another immature argument on this subject.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NO, YOU DOODYHEAD! images/icons/mad.gif

[The Baskinator]

Originally posted by RollingBrass:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by The Baskinator:
Warmaster has asked an interesting question. Let's not let this boil down to another immature argument on this subject.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NO, YOU DOODYHEAD! images/icons/mad.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SHUT-UP, TUNAHEAD! images/icons/mad.gif images/icons/mad.gif

[Devil Master]

7, coming to the Gamecube, uses cel-shading, but manages to look very noir.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Everything looks gloomy, if it's rendered in black and white (except for the red of the blood and a blue-white that can be used for many things).
Ri-ight. Always happy to hear an open-minded, unbiased opinion. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey, I didn't make that gif. Would you believe that a company in Poland has that very name? images/icons/grin.gif http://www.fagot.pl

[Bludd]

I think cel shading looks extremely cool when executed properly, but I don't think it would fit with the style of Max Payne (and for me, Max Payne is all about style).

[Co11]

Originally posted by RollingBrass:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by The Baskinator:
Warmaster has asked an interesting question. Let's not let this boil down to another immature argument on this subject.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NO, YOU DOODYHEAD! images/icons/mad.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you scruffy looking nurfherder! anyways... I wonder if there's a way to modify max payne into a cel shaded game... like redo the textures and stuff...

[Maddieman]

I wonder if there's a way to modify max payne into a cel shaded game... like redo the textures and stuff...
* <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not exactly.... (http://xiaoxiao.maxpayneheadquarters.com/index.php?content_id=3)

[Guest]

3d Realms deals with some of the best and most realistic grafix to date, so why ruin a good thing with cell shading i say.

[j]

Why do people respond without actually reading the posts in a thread?

Originally posted by Allah:
3d Realms deals with some of the best and most realistic grafix to date, so why ruin a good thing with cell shading i say. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1. Warmaster wasn't talking about cel-shading per se. Read the posts above again, thank you.
2. The company developing the game is still Remedy Entertainment Ltd., not 3D Realms, which you'd know, had you read the posts above.

[Champ32]

...what if you could drive in Max Payne...

[Mayur]

Does'nt Commander Keen by william ford use that kinda textures? Not the same but close enuff...

|Mayur|

[kemical]

if max payne 2 were to use cell shading style, they would need to do something more than just the flat cell shading look, they'd have to do some cool stuff that averages certain colors / shades etc.. and finds suitable texture overlays / rough ink, splotches, smears, etc, dirt, so what you get is not just a clean rendered image but something very filtered and stylized and gloomy, stuff that checks what type of material it is with certain tags maybe, skin, etc, and using the coordinates of the model or whatever vertexes, and can attach/blend textured images and effects onto certain areas of the raw framebuffer.... fill in certain material tags with rendered pencil sketching flickering each frame for shading... bla bla i dont know what im talking about images/icons/smile.gif it could work really well and i would really like to see a game that style...
almost like those crappy noise grain effects on some games, but much much much cooler and vast in what goes into doing the effects...

[Skeez187]

Cell Shading for the novel cut scenes would be cool though. I doubt there is time to change anything by now though. Very cool idea though.

[ShootDodge]

I'm totaly against cell shading, and i'm all for photo realistic!!!