Bullet time vs. Focus

[Darkreaver]

Enter the Matrix is out and I was probably the first person in my town to purchase it. Of course while I was playing I was comparing it to Max Payne so here's what I thought.Enter the Matrix is a very good game but when it comes to Bullet Time or Focus as it's called in the game it can't beat MP.I admit that the rail gun style of the bullets is very nice and the details are also good it just can't reach the level of MP.One thing is for sure, Remedy is going to have to make some serious modifications to the MP engine.

[Reaper978]

I hate the matrix.

[hemlock_0]

Yeah, I'm not a big fan either. The first one was alright, but not enough to get me fired up for the second (or third) movie. And, whenever I think of the slow motion action, I think bullet time, Max Payne; somehow, the Martix doesn't even occur to me. But that's more about Remedy being awesome than anything.
images/icons/smile.gif

[Jade]

We shouldn't compare Max with Matrix...yeah...they have both bullet time...but Max Payne is unique for his story, character, atmosphere etc.......Remedy doesn't need to make huge modifications, the game will be great anyway. images/icons/smile.gif

[Omario]

techincally remedy brought up the idea of bullet time first, think about it, they started MP in 1996! It surely didnt take more than 2 years to make the 1st matrix!

[biXen]

ROFL

On a serious note. Remedy got the slow-mo stuff from Hong Kong movies, but some of the style and stuff WAS inspired by Matrix of course.

[Maddieman]

Here we go again.....

[Theseus314]

The matrix uses it very well in the films. Max Payne seems to use it very well in a gameplay context.

Reaper978, the matrix ****ing rocks.

[theHunted]

Taken from Firing Squad's Enter The Matrix review: (http://firingsquad.gamers.com/games/enter_the_matrix_review/)

"[..] franchise that introduced us to bullet time and gave us psychedelic 360-degree camera effects. But Shiny is a couple of years too late in its implementation, seeing as Max Payne brought these sorts of effects to computer gaming in 2001. Everyone’s favorite noirish cop-killer did a better job at integrating them into gameplay as well. Where you actually felt pressed in Max Payne, and were truly grateful that you could slow things down every once in a while, the option is pure frill in Enter the Matrix".

thats almost exactly my thoughts. max payne made bullet-time a useful, thrilling and important gameplay aspect. etm just had it because of the movie. it didnt add to the gameplay in any way...

thanks to aavenr for digging that piece of news (http://www.3dactionplanet.com/maxpayne/)out btw images/icons/smile.gif

[Jokke_r]

omg focus sucks in ETM it's like they slow the game down to 10 fps. for real it looks like it would just lag or sumthn. and it sucks

[Darkreaver]

I never said that Enter the Matrix was better than Max Payne, all I'm saying is that Remedy should make a few changes so that MP2 will be better than the first one.That's all I meant. images/icons/frown.gif

[jimbob]

the focus system is godawefull, i hate it. bullet time all the way o/

[Jade]

Originally posted by Darkreaver:
...all I'm saying is that Remedy should make a few changes so that MP2 will be better than the first one.That's all I meant. images/icons/frown.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think Remedy is doing is best for that. images/icons/smile.gif

[Qtipie]

i'd never compare MP to Enter The Matrix. MP was mindblowing, the matrix sucks. i was very very disappointed.

[SkavenRMD]

Agh! Foiled again by the subtleties of language! graemlins/doh.gif

[X-Vector]

So what do you call a cop that kills cops?

[Maddieman]

Suicidal?

[Bludd]

Killer-cop would be better instead of cop-killer, so that there would be no confusions.

X-vector: Cop killing killer-cop. images/icons/smile.gif

[SkavenRMD]

From the Firing Squad review;
Everyone’s favorite noirish cop-killer did a better job at integrating them into gameplay as well.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">... except that Max is not a cop killer. Where did they get that idea?

[Bludd]

A cop killer is one who kills cops.
A cop-killer is a killer who is also a cop).

Of course, this might be rationalizing (sp?). images/icons/smile.gif

[j]

Originally posted by ShootDodge:
I only got a 2 or 3 goes on ETM at my friends house, and although it is really cool to watch, and to hear the sounds of bullets tearing through the air in slomotion and to hear people scream in pain.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I only needed to see ETM in action to know it was total shite. Like, gawd, even a retarded monkey wouldn't piss on the game after seeing how the camera works in it. Some of the kung fu -moves look cool, but the camera really messes it all up. And the controls don't seem too hot either, I've never seen anyone play it so that it would have looked like they were in total control of what they were doing.

Oh well, this thread will probably be locked after a few posts. I can smell the fire already, even if I can't see the flames yet images/icons/tongue.gif

[ShootDodge]

I only got a 2 or 3 goes on ETM at my friends house, and although it is really cool to watch, and to hear the sounds of bullets tearing through the air in slomotion and to hear people scream in pain. I'm totaly sure its near impossible to get shot, their kung-fu stuff is also better implimented (Ken-Y did an excellant job, shame they didn't have him working at Remedy), but this is just cuz its part of the original game.

Max paynes bullet time is by far better game play wise, and is almost as thrilling to watch and hear. The one thing that spoils it for me is peoples voices arn't slown down, so you still get the high pitched Gangsta scream, rather than a low roar.

I am a die hard matrix fan.....
.....and a die hard max payne fan....
so i'll just have to say:
MAX PAYNE ****ING ROCKS
MATRIX ****ING ROCKS!

[ShootDodge]

Yeah, now you mention it, the camara does get stuck, or leaves enemys out of veiw.
I managed to control Ghost pritty good (Havn't played as Niobe yet).

I did notice that he does actualy fly, if you dive max one way he keeps on going in that direction, but ghost seems to be able to alter his direction too!

[DynamiteBoyZ]

Is Enter the Matrix worth getting? I thought it would be Max Payne visits the Matrix.

[PetriRMD]

Originally posted by ShootDodge:
The one thing that spoils it for me is peoples voices arn't slown down, so you still get the high pitched Gangsta scream, rather than a low roar.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, we started out by slowing down the shouts during combat as well, but it did not work at all. When we downscaled the sounds it felt like you were shooting at a bunch of cows going "Moooo-oooaaax Paaaayyynneee"


images/icons/wink.gif

[Qtipie]

Originally posted by DynamiteBoyZ:
Is Enter the Matrix worth getting? <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">short and ugly: no.

I thought it would be Max Payne visits the Matrix. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">erm....

[Qtipie]

Originally posted by PetriRMD:
When we downscaled the sounds it felt like you were shooting at a bunch of cows going "Moooo-oooaaax Paaaayyynneee" images/icons/wink.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">lol, wonderful images/icons/grin.gif

[endo]

Originally posted by PetriRMD:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ShootDodge:
The one thing that spoils it for me is peoples voices arn't slown down, so you still get the high pitched Gangsta scream, rather than a low roar.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, we started out by slowing down the shouts during combat as well, but it did not work at all. When we downscaled the sounds it felt like you were shooting at a bunch of cows going "Moooo-oooaaax Paaaayyynneee"


images/icons/wink.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">well if the sounds had been slowed down as well, i think it would have been pretty smart..... saves me making the sound effects when i'm playing...

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ddddddddooooooooooonnnnnnn'ttttttttttttttt sssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhoooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooottttttttttttttttt


aaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! !!

or mabye i'm just slightly weird.

[ShootDodge]

how about slowing them down more than the 0.2 of what it is in real time.
I still think it would add more atmosphere, at the moment it feels like your shooting very slow, very large mice that can stand on two legs.
Damn high pitched nazel gangsta voices!

[Akari]

"but Max Payne is unique for his story, character, atmosphere etc"
=================================

Unique? Try chessy. images/icons/tongue.gif

[DynamiteBoyZ]

Originally posted by Qtipie:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DynamiteBoyZ:
Is Enter the Matrix worth getting? <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">short and ugly: no.

I thought it would be Max Payne visits the Matrix. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">erm.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you for the advice. You saved me mucho denero!

[neeek]

enter the matrix was an awesum game, the way the camera changes when you go into hand-to-hand combat with an enemy gives it a full view of the action, just like in the kung fu 3 mod where max does his combo's and the camera changes showing you different views and angles while max kicks their ass in that way, that was a cool mod.

i gotta say tho, max payne the game itself was good but kung fu made it betta. kf3 and etm are similair but not so much anyway.

if you do have the slo-mo voices for bulletime added for mp2 make it optional for ppl who do or do not wanna hear the voices slowed down and have it toggled on/off in the options.

[ShootDodge]

would it actualy be possible to mod it?

[Maddieman]

f you do have the slo-mo voices for bulletime added for mp2 make it optional for ppl who do or do not wanna hear the voices slowed down and have it toggled on/off in the options.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You can actually do this in Max Payne 1. I'm still debating as to whether or not we should use it in TRW. It sounds a little weird in places though.

[ShootDodge]

How about a demo mp3 of what it will sound like aswell as what it sounds like normal (So we know which sound your using, and we can compare!).

a little OT, Maddieman, is your avatar clint eastwood or agent smith, cuz i ain't sure!!!

[ 06-17-2003, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: ShootDodge ]

[Joker]

Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
From the Firing Squad review;
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Everyone’s favorite noirish cop-killer did a better job at integrating them into gameplay as well.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">... except that Max is not a cop killer. Where did they get that idea? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">B.B.?

[Guest]

Max Payne looks _far_ better than Enter The Matrix, when speaking of visual quality.

Enter the Matrix is horrid. There's tons of gfx glitches and the whole game feels unpolished. Max was another story.

The "focus" effect is shoddy, to say the least. The bullet rail effect is god awful. all in all, it's not even a good game.

[Darkreaver]

Enter the Matrix is another one of those games that came out just because the movies are good.The only thing in my opinion that's good about it is that it kinda fills in a few blancks from the movie, story wise. But other than that it's just a copy of Max Payne with the Kung Fu mod.

[KillJoy]

I was watching a behind the scenes movie of ETM, and niobe was running with her arms flayling(spelling???) all over teh friggin place!

Tell me it is not like that in game!?!

The characters also don't look like they make contact when fighting. The animation also transitions horribly from what I have seen.


LETS NOT START WITH THE TEXTURE QUALITY!!!!

The only reason why I would *CONSIDER* buying ETM is for the Matrix story gaps that are filled in.

I wouldn't even have to play it. I'll just get a strategy guide that will give away the plot!


!!!SOLUTION!!!

The strategy guide to ETM is a much more thrilling experience than actually playing.

Buy the strategy guide. It's cheaper and more fun.

[ShootDodge]

The hand to hand combat is hella good, wait till you get to the ghost missions when you've got meny of the agent smiths looking chasing you, its mucho fun trying to beat smith, cuz he's just to good. Although it is possible to nock him on his ass a few times, and my friend today was showing me a glich on the second agent smith level, they keep on proforming the same 'pick up with one hand, then push back real quickly' move over and over, once they have hold of you, and your surrounded by 6 or 7 smiths they they play pass the parcel with you litterally! while the ones who don't have hold of you empty rounds into you!