Head Start.

[Guest]

A friend has just completed Max Payne 2.
Usually this wouldn't bother me in the slightest however I paid for this game to be delivered on the day of its release and it won't come until later today. The reason for his head start? Max Payne was released in America last Wednesday and he downloaded it then. I feel like I am being punished for staying true to remedy - not only am I paying £30 to play the game that he is playing, albeit ilegally, for free - I dont get to play it until he has completed it.

**** it - why do I bother paying for games anymore?

Why not delay the American release to the European one so that the two coenside? We dont live in such a big world anymore - treating your European customers with such contempt is unfair.

Piracy is so easy nowadays it has become merely a question of morality as to whether you download a game or not - by treating the customers you have who are still willing to pay so badly, how can the games industry expect to survive?

Now I just have to go one more day hoping no-one will reveal the plot so I can play Max Payne 2 in peace.

Don't flame this post as a gut reaction - I don't condone piracy, I merely want to know what reason could be good enough to not release to the whole world at once?

Are Europeans not as worthy as Americans?

[Ronin]

Because a worldwide release isnt all that easy because you have to localize the game for diffrent countries and so on or atleast thats what I think it is

[FullMetalJacket]

Why don't you chill the hell out? I'm American and damn proud of it, but I won't get the game until a full WEEK after the rest of the nation, all because I made the mistake of pre-ordering it from an exceptionally sh*tty store.

[SkavenRMD]

I understand your concern. But as Ronin pointed out, it is very difficult to orchestrate a simultaneous worldwide release due to localization, age ratings and other such issues.


Are Europeans not as worthy as Americans?


In cold business terms - and mind you, I'm saying this as a European - no. With the number of people and their spending power combined, the American market is worth several times the European market.

This is not to say that all markets shouldn't be treated equally.

[Homoludens]

Skaven is absolutely right. I've seen way too many people complain, complain, complain. There are irrevocable technicalities involved, when are you people finally going to accept this? Just because you want the game now does not mean the various legistations of each country, the economics and time consuming modifications (localizing), the ratings adjustments, etc. will suddenly fall and bow at your feet. The world does not revolve around you. Your friend getting it before you doesn't necessarily make him better than you, if that's what you're thinking.

You have to understand how these things work. If you don't, you can always go back to reading literature. I heard Walt Whitman's Leaves of Grass has a soothing effect on spoiled impatient pubescent types. http://mysmilies.creativesell.net/contrib/blackeye/hihi.gif

[Xenomrph]

Leaves of Grass is good stuff - I read that my Junior year of highschool. Walt Whitman is cool. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Guest]

Thats why I suggested delaying the release in America until all of the technicalities are performed!

By releasing it at different times they are encouraging piracy in Europe. Why buy the game when you can get it a week early and free? Jeez. I am angry because they are penalizing loyal customers - not because of the delay itself. I understand there are shipping issues and that translation and censorship is necessary, but why not start these preceedings earlier and get the game shipped to Eurorpe so it can be released all at once?

[SkavenRMD]

This is a very good point, and should be discussed in the industry. In short term, it makes sense to start selling your product as soon as possible. But considering the results, it's not the wisest thing to do. It could also be argued that many people pirate games to get them early, but also pre-order and pay for them. But it's very compelling to just "forget" paying after you've already gotten the game.

Electronic Arts, for one, manages to orchestrate worldwide releases. This is probably one of the biggest reasons for their success.

[Xenomrph]

But it's very compelling to just "forget" paying after you've already gotten the game.


You know, my friends and I had a lengthy debate about that concept the other day. It was pretty interesting... and we're not done debating it yet. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Ronin]

I think the release dates have nothing to do with warezing the game People just want games for free and thats why they do it that whole release date thing is just an excuse

[biXen]

Electronic Arts, for one, manages to orchestrate worldwide releases. This is probably one of the biggest reasons for their success.



I think their biggest reason for success is us stupid buyers, their best selling lines of games are just the same rubbish from 1995 slightly upgraded http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[hemlock_0]

I think the release dates have nothing to do with warezing the game People just want games for free and thats why they do it that whole release date thing is just an excuse



I don't know about that...I've obtained borrowed copies of software that I've tested to see if they are worth the money. If I think that they are, I buy them, even if I'm basically done using them. If they aren't worth the money, I don't. There are some people who need to demo a product first, and sometimes there just isn't an entirely legal way of doing that (ie, no demo). I believe that while the legal issues are entirely clear, there is a fine ethical line that can be easily overlooked. A company who charges a lot of money for a poor product is just as guilty in an ethical sense as an end-user who doesn't pay. Maybe there should be a law against releasing a product that doesn't meet certain technical quality requirements?

[Xenomrph]

Yeah, that was part of the debate my friends had.
For example, in many cases demos can run differently from final versions. I mean, I know people with FAR superior PCs who can't run the full version of HALO for PC, but I can run it just fine. It makes no logical sense.
When Half-Life 2 comes out, it's VERY tempting to test out a "pirated" version of the game just to find out if my PC will even handle it (I've learned the hard way that the "PC requirements" on the game box aren't entirely reliable all the time. Case in point, my friends with 2.2GHz GeForce4 PCs that can't play HALO properly, as opposed to my Athon 1500+ GeForce2 64MB that runs it flawlessly for some reason. And I'm not an isolated case) and if it does, I'd go out and buy the game.

[biXen]

Has nothing to do with requirements, it's to do with the fact that a PC consists of hundred different parts made by hundred different companies using hundred different drivers. Some thing will work, and for some reason won't. What that reason is might not always be clear, sometimes it is. A reinstall is not a bad idea then anyway if new drivers doesn't work.

[Xenomrph]

Has nothing to do with requirements, it's to do with the fact that a PC consists of hundred different parts made by hundred different companies using hundred different drivers. Some thing will work, and for some reason won't. What that reason is might not always be clear, sometimes it is. A reinstall is not a bad idea then anyway if new drivers doesn't work.


In the case of HALO, my friends tried that (updating drivers, reinstalling, patching, etc), and couldn't get it to work. That's when I learned my lesson that shelling out $50 for a game that might not even work is mildly foolish, to say the least, and one can only hope that demos are good repesentations of how well a game will run (if it will run at all), and not just an example of gameplay and content.

[FullMetalJacket]

I mean, I know people with FAR superior PCs who can't run the full version of HALO for PC, but I can run it just fine. It makes no logical sense.



Weird indeed. I have a killer gaming rig and the Halo demo runs like absolute crap for me, and doesn't even look that great! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/brickwall.gif

As for HL2, well, it's supposed to be very scalable. An old POS system like a 450MHz with a TNT video card should be able to run it -- but it would look like Half-Life 1. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Xenomrph]

Weird indeed. I have a killer gaming rig and the Halo demo runs like absolute crap for me, and doesn't even look that great!


That's exactly what I'm talking about. It looks great on my PC (I listed the specs earlier). Like I said, it makes no sense.

[X-Vector]

You have to understand how these things work.



I understand that MP1 was released in the UK, the Netherlands and possibly some other European countries in the same week as in the US.
I also understand that this is not the case with MP2.
What I don't understand is why people keep bringing up excuses to sweettalk the delay of what's essentially an identical version (with no genuine localisation applied).

Like I've said earlier, it's largely a matter of commercial policy - a near simultaneous near worldwide release is very possible when there is the will.

[Guest]

In cold business terms - and mind you, I'm saying this as a European - no. With the number of people and their spending power combined, the American market is worth several times the European market.



I think there is little room for excuse anymore. If there were delays in a European release Remedy/3dRealms should probably have held back the American one.

Agreed the European market is small compared America's, but that is no excuse to treat customers poorly. In any other industry this would not be tolerated - with other major titles such as Half-Life 2 sporting worldwide release dates, I'm sure it cant be that hard to achieve.

It's shame that this has happened but unfortunately moaning wont get me my copy of Max Payne 2 any faster. I have however learnt a valuable lesson.
From now on I will be scrutinising release dates before purchasing and I doubt I will be pre-ordering again. I think it would be unfair to see skewed release dates becoming a trend.

In a game that takes merely a day to complete, a week seems like an eternity. While piracy seems morally wrong, who can begrudge an individual who downloads a game because he is being bullied by the gaming industry's archaic policy? In an era where a perfect digital copy can be downloaded in mere days the threat to the gaming industry is potentially high. Penalising customers who believe that piracy is wrong and who are happy to pay for their product, however small the market, is a terrible buisness strategy.

[DuckofDoom]

I am angry because they are penalizing loyal customers - not because of the delay itself.



If they really wanted to screw you over they could just not release it in Europe. I don't see why this is such a problem, do you not have anything better to do than sit around waiting for MP2. Go outside, hang out with your friends, or play some other game. This is not the end of the world people, life will go on.