Volumetric explosions

[KillJoy]

I know one thing that dissapointed me when MP came out was the lack of volumetric explosions. are there vol. explosions in the second one? (I sense that if I am wrong about this, that I will be ripped a new one)

Another tid bit, i dont mean to rag on Max but, I noticed that when Max spoke in the game, During the actual play time, not the cutscenes, the voice eminated from the room and not Max. I noticed this when replaying the first level, where you have to save the security guard to open the door upstairs. Rosco Street station i think. If you leave the room it sounds like another max is in there talking.


Ps... I like seeing the screenshots over-analyzed and bieng picked apart. Ahhhh..... The tension of a games first screens... Reminds me of the good old days...

[MarkusRMD]

In Max1 subway level, there's one Max's voiceover that was recorded in a different studio (the original studio was booked) and thus the sound was a bit different.

Didn't bother most people, but bothered us a bit.

[KillJoy]

Thanks for such a quick response Markus, now about those volumetric explosions......

[theHunted]

i thought particle FX in max payne have been and still are superior! whats wrong with them?
anyway, i'm quite sure stuff like that is included in the havok physics package, and so they'll prolly be even better and more realistic.

[SkavenRMD]

I'm not even exactly sure what you mean by "volumetric explosions"?

[MarkusRMD]

Killjoy, it's not like we actively comment on new features in Max2, is it? :-)

[KillJoy]

When I say volumetric explosions, I mean three dimensional exlposions and not animated sprites. You can tell when an explosion occurs close to you and pause the camera. The explosion rotates with you viewpoint. I hope this helps.

Well, Markus, I was hoping that it would be different after the screns were out. Ahhh well, maybe in the coming weeks than, ehh markus?

[SkavenRMD]

With today's hardware, using animated sprites looks better than creating, say, polygonal morph explosions. And what comes to truly volumetric explosions (like the ones produced with the AfterBurn plugin), they are way ahead in the future.

Every game out there does the explosions (and particle effects in general) with either flat sprites or morphed polygons (Quake II) So if you're disappointed by the lack of volumetric explosions, you're disappointed at every game in the market, right? images/icons/smile.gif

It should be mentioned, however, that the explosions in Max Payne - or any game for that matter - are three dimensional, in the sense that it is a group of animated sprites (group of explosions, smoke clouds, pieces of flying debris) that move through three dimensional space. It's not completely flat, it's a "bunch of flat thingies in a three dimensional space".

[Pr0zac]

Explosions in C&C Generals (including the a-bomb) look good enough to me and I don't think they're sprites but well made particles effects...am I right?

[KillJoy]

Dear Skaven,

I am an idiot. I didn't mean to sound like i'm attacking max payne in that post or anything. And Yes, I am aware that volumetric explosions have not yet been implemented with the type of performance that is acceptable. correct me if I am wrong, and probably am, but the sprites for the explosions did not seem as complex as the ones for muzzle flashes. The muzzle flashes were the best I have seen in any game to date. I was just curious if they [explosion sprites] have been improved at all.


Well, it was a dumb question to begin with so let me rephrase it: Will the explosion sprites be more complex as to make them appear more believable? Like the muzzle flashes.


The actual reason I was asking this question is because I was trying to make a screenshot and couldn't get the explosion to look good for the shot (desktop wallpaper).

[KillJoy]

P.s. I would never have explected this amount of feedback. It is nice to know that you guys are still around here.

[Marvel]

KillJoy, isn't it realistic to expect that if we've upgraded the looks of the characters and levels that we would've upgraded the looks of everything else as well? images/icons/smile.gif

And what comes to muzzle flash vs particle explosions, usually the muzzle flash takes up a way smaller area of the screen, thus requiring less fillrate, thus not making as big a performance hit even if it was more complex than the big particle effects. Like if you look at some of the explosions in Max1, you'll see they can fill up the whole screen, and rendering that sort of an area with as high particle density as seen in the muzzle flashes would bring the GPU/CPU to it's knees.

Also it's a matter of particle bitmap resolution (we couldn't have exactly used four 1024x1024 bitmaps in an explosion (which would have been needed for it to look as detailed and hires as the m-flashes), I suspect you can guess the reasons images/icons/smile.gif ).


Edit: me and my proof-reading

[KillJoy]

Okay....... (....Awkward Silence....)


As I said: I am a idiot!

Although I have been thoroughly been beaten to a pulp in this thread it is really nice to see so many of the remedy team on the forums. You can remember me and my dumb post and laugh. I'll walk away from this thread while I still have my spine intact. Sorry for the dumb post guys.


MP2 looks great, you guys do some AAA work and it really shows.

[KillJoy]

Oh btw...

Marvel: you don't happen to like marvel comics do you?

If you do, let me know. I am a big fan of ghost Rider

[SkavenRMD]

Pr0zac:
Explosions in C&C Generals (including the a-bomb) look good enough to me and I don't think they're sprites but well made particles effects... am I right?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're right in the sense they look good (or rather, gob-smackingly gorgeous), but wrong in the sense that particle effects are made with sprites. "Sprites", though, is the wrong term. The correct term for a "flat thingie with a bitmap sequence on it that always faces the camera" is billboard.

In C&C Generals it's generally easier to make the effects look good, because the camera is always above the scene. It allows you to place the particles in a way that only has to look good from above (they don't ever clip with the ground), and you can use more highly customized bitmaps.

KillJoy:
Well, it was a dumb question to begin with so let me rephrase it: Will the explosion sprites be more complex as to make them appear more believable? Like the muzzle flashes.

The actual reason I was asking this question is because I was trying to make a screenshot and couldn't get the explosion to look good for the shot (desktop wallpaper).<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Part of the reason they don't look good in still images is what Marvel just explained: particle density. Another part of the reason is that the explosion is a rather complex combination of effects that doesn't last very long. It starts with a bright flash and a shockwave, then spawns a group of explosion sequences, and finally leaves behind a lingering cloud of smoke. The problem you describe is not caused by the lack of the explosions being volumetric, but a problem with timing, because each part is visible for only such a short time.

When making the explosions, I wondered why the explosions in Half-Life looked and felt so good even though the bitmaps they used were so simple. *bows down to the masters @ Valve* And the answer was: because the explosions were so fast and violent (as opposed to a slow billowing Holywood fireball which you could practically run away from). I decided to go along similar lines. This way, the explosions look good in real time and slow motion, but alas, not as a still image.

As I said: I am a idiot!

Although I have been thoroughly been beaten to a pulp in this thread it is really nice to see so many of the remedy team on the forums. You can remember me and my dumb post and laugh. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey, take it easy. I've seen much dumber posts here than yours. images/icons/smile.gif

[Pr0zac]

Thanks for the update images/icons/smile.gif

[aavenr]

Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
Hey, take it easy. I've seen much dumber posts here than yours. images/icons/smile.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">yup, there's a quite a few dumb people out there: http://www.bash.org/?14258 images/icons/grin.gif