How do you feel about Sam Lake not being Max? [Archive]

Spazer

07-12-2003, 02:11 AM

new face would have been fine if they started with it

but you are changing what we have already identified with, sam is max period. i hate how they are just like pfft..i dont feel like being the model so we will just spend some of the millions we made off these fans and have someone else do it. remedy obviously doesnt care much, but i understand..its business, a franchise..not a ground breaking awesome game that could have been even more of a hit than the first max

at least we will always have max1, i think this will turn out as one of those things that are just a huge 1 time thing, followed up buy a huge mistake and the first thing is treasured forever, 2nd thing frowned upon

sorry if this sounds like a flame, but its not. just my OPINION. i know i havent played the new max but ive seen the shots, replacing the MAIN CHARACTER in a story that is so deep and in your face is just too huge a blow for me to cope with. personally i was spooging myself over even the though of mp2..now im just 'meh'

and i dont get what this constipation crap was about, never did max look like he was constipated

if sam really didnt want to goto new york to do the shots/modeling..couldnt you guys just buy the equip to do it? max 2 & (3?+) would have paid for it..plus the huge millions you made off max 1..or there has to be someplace else you can do it that is closer to you

heh sorry for ranting..i havent said a word for a long time here..been building up opinions about it in my head for days now images/icons/tongue.gif

hemlock_0

07-12-2003, 02:19 AM

Originally posted by Spazer:
heh sorry for ranting..i havent said a word for a long time here..been building up opinions about it in my head for days now images/icons/tongue.gif 'No problem with that here. images/icons/smile.gif

asker

07-12-2003, 02:28 AM

Hemlock, I'm putting your sig into mine, if that's ok with you.

Jade

07-12-2003, 05:06 AM

The first time I seen the new face I was a bit disappointed, but I start to love it now.

Marty

07-12-2003, 05:31 AM

i say "bring back Sam!" but i dont think the new face is terrible. i just think Sam did a terrific job and there was no reason to change that.

Jokke_r

07-12-2003, 05:34 AM

i don't get it how the friggin noobs cry about this all the time. what the big deal it's the game that matters. you people are being really ridicolus(spl?)

Devil Master

07-12-2003, 05:47 AM

As I said, I'll make a Sam Lake mod for Max Payne 2 as soon as I get it.

Raven

07-12-2003, 06:48 AM

Isn't James McCaffrey MP?

scorpion

07-12-2003, 07:13 AM

im pretty sure it's a guy named timothy gibbs

Dingdong

07-12-2003, 07:27 AM

I would play this game even if they changed the lead character to Max Weinberg.

Kevin's girl

07-12-2003, 11:00 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Spazer:
[QB] new face would have been fine if they started with it

but you are changing what we have already identified with, sam is max period. i hate how they are just like pfft..i dont feel like being the model so we will just spend some of the millions we made off these fans and have someone else do it. remedy obviously doesnt care much, but i understand..its business, a franchise..not a ground breaking awesome
game that could have been even more of a hit than the first max

at least we will always have max1, i think this will turn out as one of those things that are just a huge 1 time thing, followed up buy a huge mistake and the first thing is treasured forever, 2nd thing frowned upon

sorry if this sounds like a flame, but its not. just my OPINION. i know i havent played the new max but ive seen the shots, replacing the MAIN CHARACTER in a story that is so deep and in your face is just too huge a blow for me to cope with. personally i was spooging myself over even the though of mp2..now im just 'meh'

and i dont get what this constipation crap was about, never did max look like he was constipated

if sam really didnt want to goto new york to do the shots/modeling..couldnt you guys just buy the equip to do it? max 2 & (3?+) would have paid for it..plus the huge millions you made off max 1..or there has to be someplace else you can do it that is closer to you
[QUOTE]
I have to agree with you there. But maybe just maybe the new Max will grow on us. You never know we haven't even saw that much of the new game. Just some screen shots.

Exero

07-12-2003, 04:12 PM

The game will be kickass, but we'll always dispise the new Max.

RollingBrass

07-12-2003, 04:58 PM

I don't know if I find it ironic or sad that when MP first came out, most critics made negative comments about the dev team and their families/friends playing the parts of the characters. Now that they are able to hire professional actors to play the parts, other people are chastising them for that.

Damned if you do, and damned if you don't, Remedy. GO NEW MAX! \o

(Actually, I voted for the "don't really mind" option)

asker

07-12-2003, 05:50 PM

This new character's name is Min Payne.

Mad_Max

07-12-2003, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
The questions seem too biased and/or callous, you should present a more objective set of questions that allows everyone to find an answer they like. Such as:
 The new face is much better than the old face! I didn't like the new face first, but it grew on me. Either face is fine. It's the game itself that's important. I don't really like the new face, but what can you do. I think the new face is a terrible mistake. Bring back Sam Lake!
(just an example) I'd go for the second choice. I didn't liked Max's look back when we saw the black and white sketches of Max Payne II, but after I saw the game's screenshots, I think that he even look better than in MP1. He looks a lot more serious now. images/icons/smile.gif

Hudson

07-12-2003, 06:33 PM

Don't get me started.

Nessus

07-12-2003, 08:49 PM

DevilMaster, are planning on just slapping a skin on? It looks like youre going to have to make a Max model or its gonna look like crap. and anyone who wont buy the game for this reason is dumb, thats like never eating your favorite candy bar again becasue they have a new wrapper for it.

Remedy should just officially address all the reasons for the change on their site and put this to rest once and for all. Most people seem not to have heard that a large part of the decision was that they sold the intellectual property rights and wanted to make a clean break. And that Sam travelling to NYC was impractical, its all the other PR nonsense reasons that people are latching onto and making issues with.

After hearing the real reasons I accepted the change and moved on but I was bitching too when they were just saying they wanted a diffrent look etc.

Kevin's girl

07-12-2003, 09:55 PM

Originally posted by Nessus:
DevilMaster, are planning on just slapping a skin on? It looks like youre going to have to make a Max model or its gonna look like crap. and anyone who wont buy the game for this reason is dumb, thats like never eating your favorite candy bar again becasue they have a new wrapper for it.

Remedy should just officially address all the reasons for the change on their site and put this to rest once and for all. Most people seem not to have heard that a large part of the decision was that they sold the intellectual property rights and wanted to make a clean break. And that Sam travelling to NYC was impractical, its all the other PR nonsense reasons that people are latching onto and making issues with.

After hearing the real reasons I accepted the change and moved on but I was bitching too when they were just saying they wanted a diffrent look etc. AMEN!!!

hemlock_0

07-12-2003, 11:22 PM

Originally posted by asker:
Hemlock, I'm putting your sig into mine, if that's ok with you. That is absolutely ok. It's really nice to finally see some more people taking this stance since it's obviously an issue on many peoples' minds.

asker

07-12-2003, 11:50 PM

What bothers me is that this whole mess makes the devs look like they don't care about fan feedback.

Sure, there are those saying "don't sweat it" or "the new one'll grow on you", but that's not the majority and anyone who says it is, is just plain ignoring the conversations around them.

If we were a retail corporation about to buy 20,000 copies for our outlets they'd care, but not if fans come forward. It's about the $$.

Jokke_r

07-13-2003, 04:54 AM

you are just realy stupid nothing you say or do can change it anymore it's done.

you think theyll change the main model and remake all GN just becouse of some whining noobs... i don't think so. so there is no use for the argue...

biXen

07-13-2003, 08:40 AM

I choose the new face is better, because although I liked Sam as Max, I think the new face fits the impression of Max better if you go by the written things about him. But I think that for some odd reason this guy may seem a bit older than he really is...

RollingBrass

07-13-2003, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by asker:
What bothers me is that this whole mess makes the devs look like they don't care about fan feedback.

Sure, there are those saying "don't sweat it" or "the new one'll grow on you", but that's not the majority and anyone who says it is, is just plain ignoring the conversations around them.

If we were a retail corporation about to buy 20,000 copies for our outlets they'd care, but not if fans come forward. It's about the $$. The actors have already been payed for, and the models have been skinned. They aren't going to change it for what you think is an overwhelming majority. From what I've seen, it's only a few out of a great many who actually refuse to buy it due to this change. I wish I could put this in nice terms, but you people are morons. Preferences are preferences, sure, but you are all just as ridiculous as that dumbass who, way back in the day, stated that he and all of his friends would illegally obtain Max Payne since it didn't have joystick support.
As I stated before, Remedy was ragged on for them including dev teamers playing the roles of characters, as well as for Sam Lake's "wincing". They change that, and they're still getting bagged on by people who are equally as clueless as the last group. They can't win, so they might as well do what they want.
As long as it still has great gameplay, who the **** cares? I'll just tell you people what Remedy told the people bitching about Sam Lake being Max Payne: It's a third person game, you will be looking at the back of his head for 75% of the game.

[ 07-13-2003, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: RollingBrass ]

The Baskinator

07-13-2003, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by RollingBrass:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by asker:
What bothers me is that this whole mess makes the devs look like they don't care about fan feedback.

Sure, there are those saying "don't sweat it" or "the new one'll grow on you", but that's not the majority and anyone who says it is, is just plain ignoring the conversations around them.

If we were a retail corporation about to buy 20,000 copies for our outlets they'd care, but not if fans come forward. It's about the $$. The actors have already been payed for, and the models have been skinned. They aren't going to change it for what you think is an overwhelming majority. From what I've seen, it's only a few out of a great many who actually refuse to buy it due to this change. I wish I could put this in nice terms, but you people are morons. Preferences are preferences, sure, but you are all just as ridiculous as that dumbass who, way back in the day, stated that he and all of his friends would illegally obtain Max Payne since it didn't have joystick support.
As I stated before, Remedy was ragged on for them including dev teamers playing the roles of characters, as well as for Sam Lake's "wincing". They change that, and they're still getting bagged on by people who are equally as clueless as the last group. They can't win, so they might as well do what they want.
As long as it still has great gameplay, who the **** cares? I'll just tell you people what Remedy told the people bitching about Sam Lake being Max Payne: It's a third person game, you will be looking at the back of his head for 75% of the game. <hr /></blockquote>This pwnage has been brought to you by the letters R and B.

Mayur

07-13-2003, 01:38 PM

The poll does contains biased questions....I'm afraid I can't vote on it, yeah I like the old max,but the new one ain't bad either! Looks more tough and rugged though I am used to the old one images/icons/smile.gif

|Mayur|

nyne

07-13-2003, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by RollingBrass:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by asker:
What bothers me is that this whole mess makes the devs look like they don't care about fan feedback.

Sure, there are those saying "don't sweat it" or "the new one'll grow on you", but that's not the majority and anyone who says it is, is just plain ignoring the conversations around them.

If we were a retail corporation about to buy 20,000 copies for our outlets they'd care, but not if fans come forward. It's about the $$. The actors have already been payed for, and the models have been skinned. They aren't going to change it for what you think is an overwhelming majority. From what I've seen, it's only a few out of a great many who actually refuse to buy it due to this change. I wish I could put this in nice terms, but you people are morons. Preferences are preferences, sure, but you are all just as ridiculous as that dumbass who, way back in the day, stated that he and all of his friends would illegally obtain Max Payne since it didn't have joystick support.
As I stated before, Remedy was ragged on for them including dev teamers playing the roles of characters, as well as for Sam Lake's "wincing". They change that, and they're still getting bagged on by people who are equally as clueless as the last group. They can't win, so they might as well do what they want.
As long as it still has great gameplay, who the **** cares? I'll just tell you people what Remedy told the people bitching about Sam Lake being Max Payne: It's a third person game, you will be looking at the back of his head for 75% of the game. <hr /></blockquote>RollingBrass. I love you.

That's all I have to say in this matter.

Mongorian

07-13-2003, 04:49 PM

/me agrees

Reaper978

07-13-2003, 05:04 PM

There is absolutely no resemblance at all between mp1 and 2. I think its pretty gay. I probably wont buy this game anyway, no not because he has a different face images/icons/rolleyes.gif

biXen

07-13-2003, 05:11 PM

Now that gay is brought into the conversation, the maturity level is so low that we might as well mention Hitler and get the topic locked images/icons/tongue.gif

Couldn't have said it better than RB myself... my feeble attempts failed, hehe

07-13-2003, 06:11 PM

Bye-bye topic o/~

images/icons/tongue.gif

hemlock_0

07-13-2003, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by RollingBrass:
I wish I could put this in nice terms, but you people are morons. And that is exactly the kind of comment that makes this difficult in the first place. Asker has an opinion, and that doesn't make him (or any of us) a moron. Yeah, the new Max is cool. No, he's not the Max we're used to. Taking either side is fine.

Originally posted by RollingBrass:
As long as it still has great gameplay, who the **** cares?Obviously several people do. This is not a gameplay issue in the first place. You think gameplay is more important that the face, and so do I, but that doesn't mean the face doesn't matter.

Why does a complaint about the face have to draw so much retaliation? If the guy feels that badly about the face issue, let him. I'm just as upset about the new face, but I'm still going to be buying the game. Boycotting the game is extreme, and I believe that a true fan must be both affected by the face change and determined to play the game anyway. At the end of the day, it's still going to be an awesome game, even if it will take a while to get all the answers we want.

[ 07-13-2003, 08:06 PM: Message edited by: hemlock_0 ]

Spazer

07-13-2003, 10:13 PM

you wont be looking at the back of his head 99 percent of the time. cuttscenes, those chapter/comic book things like in max 1, ect.

it will be like some weird guy you dont know replacing your dad, and having to live with him and get to know em all over again

im simply just trying to help raise our voices enough just in case it ISNT TOO LATE to change back, but if it is definately too late..then its aight, no huge problem. i just wish they didnt make that stupid decision in the first place

remedy should come out and TRUTHFULLY say if its DEFINATELY too late or not to go back, so we can stoofoo images/icons/smile.gif

asker

07-13-2003, 10:28 PM

It IS too late to change it, but that doesn't mean we have to accept the change. Tolerate it, perhaps we must, but there are those of us who will NEVER accept it.

Spazer

07-13-2003, 10:31 PM

link? or what was the reason?

[ 07-13-2003, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: Spazer ]

gta

07-13-2003, 10:56 PM

Spazer you said it all, i totally agree with you

RollingBrass

07-13-2003, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by hemlock_0:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by RollingBrass:
I wish I could put this in nice terms, but you people are morons. And that is exactly the kind of comment that makes this difficult in the first place. Asker has an opinion, and that doesn't make him (or any of us) a moron. Yeah, the new Max is cool. No, he's not the Max we're used to. Taking either side is fine. <hr /></blockquote>Yes, but threatening to not buy the game unless your demands are met is downright dumb.

Originally posted by hemlock_0:
Why does a complaint about the face have to draw so much retaliation? If the guy feels that badly about the face issue, let him. I'm just as upset about the new face, but I'm still going to be buying the game. Boycotting the game is extreme, and I believe that a true fan must be both affected by the face change and determined to play the game anyway.I don't mind if people don't like the face, but saying you won't buy the game simply due to the fact is just so.....stupid. That's what's getting me aggravated in this thread.

[ 07-14-2003, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: RollingBrass ]

Qtipie

07-14-2003, 12:55 AM

Originally posted by Spazer:
and i dont get what this constipation crap was about, never did max look like he was constipated
constipated...man i hate that ****ING word!!! images/icons/mad.gif

i was upset when i saw those first screenies. and yes i complained, too. but all that whining and moaning won't help a damn, cause remedy is not. going. to. change. the. face. no matter. what.
the sooner you make up with that new look the better. all of you who say they won't buy the game w/o sam as max: i feel SO sorry for you....

Hudson

07-14-2003, 01:09 AM

Originally posted by Marty:
i say "bring back Sam!" but i dont think the new face is terrible. i just think Sam did a terrific job and there was no reason to change that. AMEN!

biXen

07-14-2003, 01:14 AM

But there was a damn reason. It might be Remedy's last Max Payne game. No new developer studio is gonna drag Sam Lake's ass down to a photosession to use him in the future.

Now that they could afford it they introduced proper actors into the cast, which is for the best for the game, simple as that.

07-14-2003, 05:11 AM

Originally posted by Spazer:
you wont be looking at the back of his head 99 percent of the time. cuttscenes, those chapter/comic book things like in max 1, ect.I guess that's why RB said 75% images/icons/tongue.gif

Jade

07-14-2003, 05:33 AM

Why you're going on with this discussion?

hemlock_0

07-14-2003, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by RollingBrass:
I don't mind if people don't like the face, but saying you won't buy the game simply due to the fact is just so.....stupid. That's what's getting me aggravated in this thread. Fair enough! I totally understand your frustration with this, as I've been feeling it too, both ways. It's the extreme views that make these kinds of discussions so tough.

asker

07-14-2003, 11:19 AM

DevilMaster, I have an idea. We'll have to get into private communication, though. I'll see if there's a PM system or something on the board through which we can exchange e-mail addresses.

kemical

07-14-2003, 11:33 AM

bah. from the media we have seen so far, i think the graphic novel / non ingame stuff looks exactly the same and very good, the ingame max payne looks great also, and looks the same to me, matches up with the graphic novels of the first and second much more, except he looks too lax (as i said in my other post lol) in the screenshots, and hopefully will have a hardened expression of the current while shooting.

asker

07-14-2003, 03:45 PM

So what you're saying is that we should go and buy every game that is released so we can decide if we like them or not?

Uhh... what's the point of the released media again?

hemlock_0

07-14-2003, 03:58 PM

Um...yeah...don't be too quick to pass judgement, but having to play the game to form an opinion does invalidate the preliminary media...I think he (Joe) is just saying to give it a chance, in his own way.

biXen

07-14-2003, 04:53 PM

This is like the stupidest thing EVER. Come on ffs. I'd agree with you guys if it was a movie, if they replaced De Niro with some other fool for a new Goodfellas or something, but these guys are in a GAME, they aren't acting. There is no difference, this guy is an actor, it was a needed move, he fits the role as a tough rugged cop WAY more than Sam did eventhough I liked his look too.

Get a grip, please...

Mad_Max

07-14-2003, 08:45 PM

And the saga of people overreacting over such a simple thing that is the character's main look continues. images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Sure, we all had our share of surprise because of the new Max, but saying that you won't buy the game for this sole reason is purely dumb. I highly guess that most people thinking this way are the ones who believe that the graphics must be a game's best point. The change of look will not change at all the way the game will be played, plus it shows out that Remedy aren't making a quick re-hash of Max Payne 1 with some new levels and stuff, like certain people might have believed in the past. Just think of it as a brand new game.

Apart from that, I think that Rollingbrass said everything else which needed to be heard within this argument.

Exero

07-14-2003, 09:55 PM

Bring back Sam Lake.

Joe Siegler

07-15-2003, 12:59 AM

Originally posted by asker:
It IS too late to change it, but that doesn't mean we have to accept the change. Tolerate it, perhaps we must, but there are those of us who will NEVER accept it. I think the entire question is invalid - and the reason why is that you've not played the game. You've not seen the new stuff in context. How about waiting until you actually play the game, see it all in context before making comments like that?

Oh no - we can't do that. Doesn't fit the matra of "Online forums must overract about everything" - what was I thinking?

suprahukka

07-15-2003, 02:18 AM

Originally posted by asker:
So what you're saying is that we should go and buy every game that is released so we can decide if we like them or not?

Uhh... what's the point of the released media again? Jesus. If it's all about the face, you don't even deserve the sequel. I bet you are just complaining for the sake of it. And you can't back up now, because it would mean we are right. The most angering thing is, that you just can't see it from another perspective. That being Remedy's and their reasons for not using Järvi anymore.

Now I am starting to remember why I didn't have anything to do with gaming communities for many years....

Co11

07-15-2003, 09:45 AM

You're so silly joe

scorpion

07-15-2003, 10:50 AM

it's not all about the face it about the game and how it plays the face is just a small portion of the game. this is a ridiculous thing to whine and cry about

Spazer

07-15-2003, 03:23 PM

joe, that is different dude. we are telling remedy they are making a huge mistake replacing max BEFORE it has any negative effects on the series. we have seen the screenshots, the only difference PLAYING the game is that we will see more of max in cutseens and those comic book things..meaning we will see more of the thing we hate the most: max being replaced with someone different. if max was started with that look then there wouldnt be a problem

we dont want to just sit here and let it happen because the game will suck for us

we are the ones that give you our money and make your game the huge success in the end (i know i know, you guys made it and you rock but in the end its the PROFIT...you're a business)

biXen

07-15-2003, 04:11 PM

Spazer: I guess the fact that there's 1% that REALLY cares if they change the face doesn't matter to you?

It's like those people who tried to convince us that Max Payne was a bug-ridden game when it came out, cause "everyone" had problems.

There's 10 people in this forum, out of maybe 1000 users that stop by the Max Payne forums (maybe not all of them posting) who really cares if they change the face, and can't see the obvious reasons. The ratio will be even less outside this fan circle. It was changed for a reason, eventhough most of us liked Sam as Max, why can't you just accept that and stop sobbing?

suprahukka

07-15-2003, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by biXen:
Spazer: I guess the fact that there's 1% that REALLY cares if they change the face doesn't matter to you?

It's like those people who tried to convince us that Max Payne was a bug-ridden game when it came out, cause "everyone" had problems.

There's 10 people in this forum, out of maybe 1000 users that stop by the Max Payne forums (maybe not all of them posting) who really cares if they change the face, and can't see the obvious reasons. The ratio will be even less outside this fan circle. It was changed for a reason, eventhough most of us liked Sam as Max, why can't you just accept that and stop sobbing? Amen.

I don't think there is a reason to carry out this fight anymore...

Cyberfish

07-15-2003, 05:09 PM

--> How do you feel about Sam Lake not being Max?

Sam go! Sam go!
Sam will return to Max Payne 3! images/icons/grin.gif
Sam Lake rules...

07-15-2003, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by Spazer:
if max was started with that look then there wouldnt be a problemSo-o-o.. what you're saying is that there would be nothing wrong with the new face if it had been Max's face from the beginning? That you'd be happy even with this face if it had been in MP1?

What are you complaining about, if there's nothing wrong with the new face, except for the fact that it wasn't Max's face in the first game? Maybe you should mod it into MP1 and play that game with the new face, then play MP2 with the same face and be happy?

(I personally don't like the new face (though I like the way it looks in the new graphic novel shots), as I think it looks like a whole different kind of person, but I'll live with it. I'll play the game and have a hell of a time.)

And please excuse me, I was rambling.

Exero

07-15-2003, 10:39 PM

WHy do people like the new modell better? More detail. Had it been modelled in the likeness of Sam Lake, I'm sure 90% of the people here would prefer it to the current model.

asker

07-16-2003, 12:28 AM

This isn't a discussion about the quality of the modelling... hands down, the new model of higher quality.

I don't even care what the in-game model looks like. I can't remember the last time I played Max Payne with the default model.

For me, the big deal is the graphic novel sequences. I don't like the idea of seeing some other guy's mug where Max should be.

Spazer

07-16-2003, 01:09 PM

i cant believe giving feedback to a game that isnt finished yet, and the dev could use this feedback, is considered complaining. if the game was done and i went to best buy and saw it and was like WTF?!..then came here and started posting about it then yes, it would be complaining.

but the game isnt finished, and we're simply saying that completely changing what the main character looks like, in a game that is so centered around that character, is a bad idea.

and yeah, i do think the new model is cool and im not dissing whoever designed it. but its the main character, the complete change in his appearance (which we will notice so much..cutt seens / story boards / ect) and it will be so weird and take away the awesome effect

sam max had this awesome badass look and feeling, his look and voice was a perfect match. looked like someone really on the verge of insanity.

now he just looks like a depressed 40 year old accountant who lures little girls into his car with candy.

biXen

07-16-2003, 01:11 PM

Sam looked too young for the image we got of Max through the story and voice I think. Besides, it's a done thing, it won't change. It's a decision done, a lot of work is done, and that's that. You might as well complain when the game is in the stores. It's also a required move, cause Sam is Remedy, and Remedy isn't tied to Max Payne any longer than for Max Payne 2.

Spazer

07-16-2003, 01:33 PM

i wasn't aware you worked for remedy or 3drealms? if you dont then you do not know this, because i have not seen one 3drealms OR remedy employee post here that it is final and done, cant be changed period.

and afaik, sam is remedy employee, and remedy is devs of max payne so what is the problem. unless he doesnt want to do it then fine.

i dont know the reason why they changed max, but if i did..and it was a real reason then i wouldnt be giving my feedback to the new max..id just accept it. but for now, afaik they are still working on it and they have the time to take the feedback of all these people and do a quick change so quit trying to hate on me for it. it wont add another year to the dev time if they do change it

again, i dont know why they did it or what would be involved so dont flame me for it. ive been trying to read through all these threads but ive yet to see wtf is going on

Jokke_r

07-16-2003, 02:36 PM

duh. the game is out this fall that means after a couple of months. so thinking that they allready have screenshots of the graphic novels and ingame scenes. i highly doubt they are not finished with that part and it would be a HUGE setback if theyd haveto redo all the graphic novels model art posters pictures and everything. YOU CAN NOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE ANYMORE. stop whining IT IS DONE... i don't get how someone whines about something this much...

Over at a finnish forum everyone loved the new look. they said it might take some time getting used to it but they werent dissing it or anything like some people here. they said he looks much better now and this is how he should had looked in Max Payne 1...

biXen

07-16-2003, 04:34 PM

Spazer: Rockstar wanted it changed because it's more professional to have pro actors doing the roles, and also Max Payne 2 will probably be the last Max Payne related stuff Remedy does, so they are not going to drag Sam Lake out for photoshoots for Max Payne 3,4,5... Those are some of the reasons, as Jokke_r also says, it's WAY too much work to change, it's a done deal. Just accept it, stop acting like a baby who doesn't get candy.

Spazer

07-16-2003, 04:48 PM

no u

i didnt know it was that far ahead and alot more too it..now i know so now i stoofoo

let me in on da 411 more often yo.. i be 2fast 2furious im hardcore g WEST SIIEDD IN DA HIZZOUSE

07-16-2003, 08:12 PM

Did you forget to take your dried frog pills or something? images/icons/tongue.gif

hemlock_0

07-17-2003, 01:30 AM

Wow. Almost everything I'm reading in here suggests that everyone is missing each others' point.

Side A: changing the face is bad, since they love the character so much that they have come to really feel an attachment to their perceived identity of Max, and they are hurt that such a major part of the character would be changed in what seems so abrupt a manner.

Side B: hears whining and promises of extreme measures being taken, thinks the complaint puts graphics at the top of the list, and stops listening.

How can a fan do anything other than be affected by the face change but still play the game? And what seems to be a childish outburst may really just be poorly vented frustration over a valid issue. Still, at the end of the day it's going to be the new guy, it's going to take some getting used to, and we're going to end up liking it. So there. images/icons/smile.gif

Hudson

07-17-2003, 05:43 AM

Originally posted by asker:
For me, the big deal is the graphic novel sequences. I don't like the idea of seeing some other guy's mug where Max should be. Thats the problem I was having the most trouble with. However it doesn't mean that its going to make the game horrible.. just.. different. Kinda like the 007 flicks. Sure Pierce is no Sean Connery.. but he gets the job done.

zakath

07-17-2003, 06:51 AM

we want sami järvi !

biXen

07-17-2003, 08:16 AM

Hudson: your comparison is whack. First off, Connery looks a LOT better than Pierce Brosnan, he's a great actor (one of our time's best), and he's funnier without making it look put on. Brosnan is a b-actor who's only played in crap except Bond, doesn't look that good, and bla bla. It's like gold and stone comparison

+
These are ACTORS. The Max Payne face is a face, nothing else. The new guy looks good, he looks rugged, his acting skills doesn't matter, it's not like any movie actor at all.

Jade

07-17-2003, 09:44 AM

We are going to exagerate with this complaining...

Yeah , the face play a good part in the "charima" of the character...and that was good in the first MP. Now, we have a new chapiter, a new face, and maybe a new atmosphere...lets discuss when the game will be out please. images/icons/wink.gif

Cyberfish

07-17-2003, 10:52 AM

Hopefully Max Payne keeps his old rough voice images/icons/smile.gif

scorpion

07-17-2003, 01:12 PM

don't worry the same voice actor is bring used images/icons/smile.gif

[ 07-17-2003, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: scorpion ]

Jokke_r

07-17-2003, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by zakath:
we want sami järvi ! Nooo...

correction.

You wan't

we don't really care you see.

Kevin's girl

07-17-2003, 04:15 PM

Here is my final thought on this whole issue (LOL):
Sam Lake will not be in the new game. But does that mean he's gone forever? No. Just because hes not in this game does not mean you will never see him again. More than likely he will be around promoting this game. He might be at next years E3. When the game comes out he'll be in magazines and be on tv talking about it.

Will Sam be in Max Payne 3? Most likely not since they replaced him in the second. They have a paid actor to be him now. Will there even be a MP3? Who knows? Not even Remedy yet. Lets let the second game come out before we start talking about the third.

Will Sam be missed? God yes!! Max Payne (in my opinion) will never be the same without him. Will this new game go to hell without him? Probably not. Sam still wrote the storyline. Max will have the same voice. And the game is produced by the same people who produced the last game. The only thing different is Max's face.

Will the change be hard to get used to? Yes for some people. Will everybody get used to the new Max? By all means no. And thats okay.

So if you don't like the new Max is it okay to sit here and whine about it? No. But it is okay to voice your opinion and get your feelings off your chest. We are all entitled to our opinions.

Will sitting here complaining about it change anything? No and if you think it will you got another thing coming my friend. The new game is expected to be out by fall of this year. So that means like 96% of the game is already completed. And to go back now and change the whole game just so the character will look like he used to is just plain insane.

Did Remedy hear what you thought about the new max? YES! And I'm pretty sure they took all your opinions to heart. But you gotta trust the people working on the game that they know what they are doing. They work SO hard to make their games as enjoyable as they can for the consumers. Have a little faith in them.
They had to change Max and for whatever reason it was probably a good one. Or else why would they have done it?

So if you don't like the new Max is it okay tonot buy it for that reason? Um, whos to say what is right and wrong. But in my opinion if you don't by the new game for that reason and that reason only I just have to say this: "Don't consider yourself a fan of Max Payne."

Will I buy the new game? You bet!! But like I said before I will miss Sam, cry a river (LOL), and complain secretly to one self. But the world moves on! I will probably fall in love (not litterally) with the new character like I did the old one.
Sam Lake as Max Payne is a thing of the past. Like somebody in this forum said before the first game will be cherished more because Sam will no longer be seen in the upcoming game(S).

Will there be a Max Payne movie? And will Sam be in it? Um...thats another story!

So hopefully I addressed every aspect of this issue. This does not apply to everybody as this is MY opinion. I just wish that everybody coming on this forum complaining about this whole thing will just realize that no matter what they say, how much they whine, nothing productive is gonna result from it.
I think right now we have to be supportive of Remedy, 3d realms, and everybody involved. Since the game is "expected" to be out very soon.

For everybody who is gonna buy the game and exceptthe change: Go you! And I think your in for a real treat as Remedy an (etc.) has worked very hard on it for you!
(I fall into this catagory)

For those of you who will buy the new game and never except the new Max: I hope that you come to terms and realize that everything happens for a reason.

For the people out there that refuse to buy the game because Sam is not in it:...I'm sorry...

Thats all I have to say. Sorry it was so long. I just felt that these things had to be said! Bye! images/icons/smile.gif

Kevin's girl

07-17-2003, 04:41 PM

Thats all I have to say about that! - Forrest Gump
I hope you take the time to read what I wrote because it took me a long time to type it!

biXen

07-17-2003, 04:42 PM

Let me just say this, there's absolutely NOOOO chance of Sam being in a Max Payne, because Remedy doesn't own the rights to the franchise, he isn't an actor and the studio would never even consider it. Easy peasy images/icons/smile.gif

On the rest I agree with Kevin's girl though, one is entitled to voice his/her opinion, but one can do it in a smarter way. Remedy is one of today's best developing houses, I never doubt any decision they make, and even if one is done for them by Rockstar I'm sure they can twist the best out of it.

What everyone has got to understand, so we can end this, is that eventhough we've all loved Sam as Max Payne, it's a franchise, and the owner of that franchise has made a decision that's best for the franchise, and that's to change the face to a pro. actor ASAP. It would suck more if they did it for Max Payne 3, which I assume (my opinion) Remedy won't make. I'm sure this new face is gonna own, and you'll all forget this once MP2 is out images/icons/smile.gif

Spazer

07-17-2003, 09:05 PM

yeah now that we know sam will never be max in 2 or any future max's we should all just never mention it again

but what is this i hear that remedy doesnt own max anymore..will they not be making future max's?

biXen

07-18-2003, 01:10 AM

Take 2 owns the rights to Max Payne (they required it for a shitload of money, last year or so), and I think that Remedy would want to start a new series, make a new game or so, unless Take 2 gives them an offer they can't refuse.

Fortune Hunter

07-18-2003, 03:57 AM

I really like the first max payne and the news of the second brought me to this forum. Its cool that we actualy have remedy guys here to filter out some of the things and it has become aparant that sam lake wont be the next max payne.

I liked sam jarvi but the new face still has a dark look to it and to me looks good. so im either way but I kinda like em both

Hudson

07-18-2003, 04:22 AM

Originally posted by biXen:
Hudson: your comparison is whack. First off, Connery looks a LOT better than Pierce Brosnan, he's a great actor (one of our time's best), and he's funnier without making it look put on. Brosnan is a b-actor who's only played in crap except Bond, doesn't look that good, and bla bla. It's like gold and stone comparison

+
These are ACTORS. The Max Payne face is a face, nothing else. The new guy looks good, he looks rugged, his acting skills doesn't matter, it's not like any movie actor at all. I really think you read too far into my little comparison.. But I can tell we share the same taste in Bond flicks. Nevertheless I wasn't talking about Acting, nor was I referring to MP2 as a movie. I was talking about the way Max looks.