My thoughts on Max Payne

[JimboC]

I just finished Max Payne and I have to say, GREAT JOB REMEDY! I thought it was done just right - length, difficulty, gameplay. I really enjoyed it! There were a few things I would have liked to seen implemented a little differently, but none of these things detracted from my enjoyment of the game.

Keep up the great work!

[Homoludens]

Now, this is quite rare! Someone who actually feels that Max Payne's length is just right. Glad you had fun with it, JimboC. I also feel that, considering the intensity of the action, the game wasn't too long or too short.

[Hatch]

Max Payne RULZ!!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Joe3DR:
I hate games that are too long, and too many of them are too long - I get bored and lose interest.<hr></blockquote>

Bad pacing, bad level design, bad story, and bad gameplay, need to be thrown into the pot as well. Generally I don't find a games long length to be a problem unless these other factors are wacked.

- Dist images/icons/smile.gif rtedReality

[Castor_Troy]

I don't agree with that, DR
A game can have a magnificent pacing, a great story and excellent gameplay, but if it's to long, it becomes boring after a while. You'll be playing on routine and that's really nefast, to say it in a word in dutch.

[Guest]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Castor_Troy:
I don't agree with that, DR. A game can have a magnificent pacing, a great story and excellent gameplay, but if it's to long, it becomes boring after a while. You'll be playing on routine and that's really nefast, to say it in a word in dutch.<hr></blockquote>

I see where you're coming from. The point I was making was that length must be considered alongside other factors. You already see that so I don't think there's much argument to be had.

Given this balance of factors, what is an appropriate length for a game? One could argue that the levels within hitman are mini-games in their own right. Would that be to short? What if each level was sold for a low single digit of any currency worth naming? What about an epic game that had over ninety hours worth of gameplay in it? Would that be to long, even if it could be designed carefully enough to sustain interest?


- Dist images/icons/smile.gif rtedReality

[mysteryperfecta]

In FPS, I think that the predominance of the story has an inverse relationship to the length of the game. Games like Quake 2 could be long because they only played lip service to a plot. The same can be said for Half-Life.
Max Payne tried to keep the plot relatively grounded; it couldn't conveniently shuttle off to Zen to keep the game going. As I've said before, MP's plot took some padding to make it the length that it was.
Scale also plays a part to length. I wonder how big the Black Mesa Facility would be in real life? Probably about the size of a small country. The same could be said of the areas in Unreal. MP's buildings were of a realistic scale. Sure, Remedy could have made the hallways a lot longer, and added more enemies, thereby cheating a few more hours into the game. I'm glad they didn't.

And yes, other factors besides just length can contribute to boredom. But how many movies are considered superior, but a too long?

[Joe Siegler]

I felt Max Payne's length was just right too - although I can't express that opinion because I work for the company. images/icons/grin.gif

I hate games that are too long, and too many of them are too long - I get bored and lose interest.

[Bushido]

Wow, finally someone that feels the same way as I do. Games like Red Faction and Undying are cool and shit, but they're too freakishly long to play through. Now if I had no job, no girlfriend, and no friends, then maybe I could play through all these games, but I digress.
I like it short and sweet. And if it is long it better be something really cool to keep my interest..like Grand Theft Auto 3 or MGS2...

[Death Mage]

And then there are those of us who think any game that takes less than 50 hours to beat is way too short. There aren't many FPS or TPFPS games that last QUITE that long though. images/icons/wink.gif

[Hatch]

Black Mesa!!! Argh!! Don't make me go back there again and again and again! But that's why I play Counter-Strike. images/icons/grin.gif

Peace
Hatch

[mysteryperfecta]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Joe3DR:
I felt Max Payne's length was just right too - although I can't express that opinion because I work for the company. I hate games that are too long, and too many of them are too long - I get bored and lose interest.<hr></blockquote>

Shut up, Joe. Your propaganda will not brainwash us. Cover your eyes, children.

That said, I think Max Payne's length was just right. I hate games that are too long, and too many of them are too long - I get bored and lose interest.

Examples are Drakan and Unreal. I liked Drakan, but I had to put it in God-mode to hack my way through the rest of the game. I just wanted to get it over with.

I still haven't finished unreal. It's too repetitive. I play it on God mode as well so that I don't die and have to repeat any part of a level.

And those games had it easy. MP had a story to keep alive. If it had been much longer, the story would have felt even more padded than it was.

[Scotty]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I still haven't finished unreal. It's too repetitive. I play it on God mode as well so that I don't die and have to repeat any part of a level.<hr></blockquote>How far in are you?

It took me a long time to finish it. The thing that made it hard to finish for me were the huge levels with no well-defined critical path. I'd wander around in some levels for hours, then read a walkthrough and find I could've finished it in five minutes. images/icons/shocked.gif

I finally put in a few long playing days a few weekends in a row and finished it. I had read that some ppl thought the ending sucked, but I thought it was pretty cool. images/icons/smile.gif

[Homoludens]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by DistortedReality:


I see where you're coming from. The point I was making was that length must be considered alongside other factors. You already see that so I don't think there's much argument to be had.

Given this balance of factors, what is an appropriate length for a game? One could argue that the levels within hitman are mini-games in their own right. Would that be to short? What if each level was sold for a low single digit of any currency worth naming? What about an epic game that had over ninety hours worth of gameplay in it? Would that be to long, even if it could be designed carefully enough to sustain interest?
- Dist images/icons/smile.gif rtedReality<hr></blockquote>

You know, I agree. But see, my agreement comes from the fact that I think the proper length of the game experience is in proportion to the enjoyment of the individual player. Ninety hours of gameplay would mean nothing to me if I couldn't take anything from it. Personally, a game that gave me some ten hours of the most memorably intense and novel experiences is far more worth my fifty bucks than one that offered me thirty hours of mediocrity and lack of immersion.

[Dsilence]

Actually Me and my friend thought it wasn't to short... just right but we have a tendency to get bored at games too quickly.. like commandos 2 I'm playing right now.. i'm pretty far into mission 3 (and thats about +10h game already) It sucks when one mission takes about 3-4h to finish... oh well that's my oppinion I didn't think Max was to short at the time when I played it..

it's one month since i really played it but I've been modding it, so actually I have been playing with maxpayne constantly since it came out... images/icons/grin.gif

Anyways since so many people think that MP was too short remedy could add a couple of extra level to the sequel... and more special options once u finished it..

[Guest]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Homoludens:


You know, I agree. But see, my agreement comes from the fact that I think the proper length of the game experience is in proportion to the enjoyment of the individual player. Ninety hours of gameplay would mean nothing to me if I couldn't take anything from it. Personally, a game that gave me some ten hours of the most memorably intense and novel experiences is far more worth my fifty bucks than one that offered me thirty hours of mediocrity and lack of immersion.<hr></blockquote>

The same is true of any work.


- Dist images/icons/smile.gif rtedReality