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biXen
07-11-2001, 04:04 AM
Heya, I noticed this thing earlier today, and it's not to nag, more of a question/info to you. I notice that when you leap the particle fx doesn't follow the gun, for example here:

http://insanepayne.gamereactor.net/images/bug01.jpg

it actually begins here:

http://insanepayne.gamereactor.net/images/bug03.jpg

Lasts for about 2-3 seconds, and turns out correct here:

http://insanepayne.gamereactor.net/images/bug02.jpg

Now I'm guessing you've already fixed it, or it can't be fixed, but I thought I'd ask ya anyway. It's a minor thingy, but obviously more visible when playing the game full-screen...

[ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: biXen ]

Guest
07-11-2001, 04:19 AM
Excuse me while I get over it... Done.

masterqxt
07-11-2001, 04:27 AM
I think it's a biiiig bug. graemlins/dopefish.gif

[ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: masterqxt ]

Guest
07-11-2001, 04:30 AM
sorry, but its not a bug....

when you fire a gun, a flame is produced in one short explosion....


if you were to somehow move the gun really fast while shooting it and photograph it, the flame in fact would stay where it originaly was..... the problem is real muzzles flashes last only a fraction of a second, so you wouldnt notice it


so in conclusion, this is not a bug.

j
07-11-2001, 05:09 AM
Nate, damn, just what I was going to post.. images/icons/frown.gif

biXen
07-11-2001, 05:18 AM
Umm, how about, I think you are wrong? The fact is that the gun has never been where the muzzle flash is yet, it appears there in the last image, because then his arms moves that far forward... Before that he's never had his arms there, he's leaping sidewards, not forwards, the flame wouldn't be there no matter if he's jumping or not...

The Viper
07-11-2001, 05:23 AM
damn just checked the vid again and bixy is rigth. Well it's not a big thing...

biXen
07-11-2001, 05:24 AM
Exhibit A... the ABSOLUTE first frame...

http://insanepayne.gamereactor.net/images/bugfirstframe.jpg

So it is a bug, his hand was never there, the flame is following the first one (right-hand gun)... Just wanted to prove it was a bug though, not realistic images/icons/smile.gif

My guess would be that the particle effects for both Ingrams are made as one. So when the left arm is at a different place it doesn't follow it. Hope this get's fixed, eventhough it's not a big thing images/icons/smile.gif

[ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: biXen ]

Guest
07-11-2001, 05:27 AM
ya he is right, in THAT instence the flame is being EMITTED from the wrong place

i am guessing because he is diving at a strange angle, and the billboard for the flames are both on teh same "particlefx" thing.....

[ 07-11-2001: Message edited by: Nate ]

Guest
07-11-2001, 05:43 AM
YOU WILL GET OVER IT. GET OVER IT! The game isn't real, we know that. Not everything is a replica of reality, this so so close that it is amazing, forget the silly little details.

--------------------
Am I the only sane person on this planet? Sometimes I think so, because I am the only one who can see the gnomes that are killing everyone!

Guest
07-11-2001, 05:45 AM
hey chilli bro, biXen already said its not a complaint.

Guest
07-11-2001, 05:58 AM
Sorry, I'm just grumpy because I was kidnapped by squirrels.

------------------
If you are ever attacked by a bear just think of the irony. The bear could never have hurt you if you wern't manifested as a physical being. Sure, it's not really that ironic or funny, but it will give you something to distract yourself from the fact that a bear is trying to kill you.

SkavenRMD
07-11-2001, 06:06 AM
Good heavens. Are we slipping into the realm of nitpicking again? As for an explanation, it's not a bug, it's a feature. images/icons/smile.gif

To optimize CPU usage, both muzzle flashes of the dual Ingrams are emitted from the same particle system. Due to the incredible spray of bullets the dual Ingrams emit, they're a tad CPU-heavy. We had to do all we could to reduce the CPU usage. Mod-makers can of course change them back to separate muzzle flashes, if they want.

During the game, you hardly ever notice it, really.

Guest
07-11-2001, 06:08 AM
/me dances a jig

Guest
07-11-2001, 06:28 AM
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
Good heavens. Are we slipping into the realm of nitpicking again?<hr></blockquote>
No, the 3DRealm of nitpicking.(sorry, bad joke)

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
As for an explanation, it's not a bug, it's a feature. images/icons/smile.gif<hr></blockquote>

As microsoft would say: "It's not a vulnerability, it's an undocumented security feature."

I think features should be defined as something toggleable. I guess since it can be done by mod makers(I assume when designing the weapon) i guess that DOES make it a feature.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Nate:
/me dances a jig<hr></blockquote>

Um, you do that.

---------------------
If there are 365 days in a year on earth but it's different on other planets, does that mean that kids who live on mars can drink when they are the earth equivilant of 4? and can they do so withought being attacked from the killer robot from that stupid movie about mars and the killer robot?

biXen
07-11-2001, 06:40 AM
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
Good heavens. Are we slipping into the realm of nitpicking again? As for an explanation, it's not a bug, it's a feature. images/icons/smile.gif

To optimize CPU usage, both muzzle flashes of the dual Ingrams are emitted from the same particle system. Due to the incredible spray of bullets the dual Ingrams emit, they're a tad CPU-heavy. We had to do all we could to reduce the CPU usage. Mod-makers can of course change them back to separate muzzle flashes, if they want.

During the game, you hardly ever notice it, really.<hr></blockquote>

Yah, figures, Mac10's empty the clip in 2,5 seconds images/icons/smile.gif Even the AEG does that, 40 or 50 shots in 2,5 seconds, hehe, roxx images/icons/smile.gif

Cool that we can fix it in a mod though, it's gonna be hell to make mods, we can do everything images/icons/grin.gif

But as I said Skav, it wasn't to complain, I just noticed it... in the video it happens so fast that you won't notice it unless it's slow motion though... also in that video you easily noticed what was shoot-dodge bullet time, and what was the bullet-time you turn on and off, cool stuff to see...

SkavenRMD
07-11-2001, 08:18 AM
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Qender:
I think features should be defined as something toggleable.<hr></blockquote>

Yes, of course, but you can't define everything as toggleable, that would get way too complicated (not to mention laborous to implement).

BTW, for the same CPU usage reason, not every bullet sprayed by the Ingrams will make a bullet impact particle effect, either. However, they all do make damage and decals. The results look good enough while not bringing your CPU to its knees.

Even with these optimizations, our Ingrams are a step forward in 3D shooter submachine gun mayhem. A previous incarnation of a Mac-10 mock-up I've seen in another game made a "brrt" sound and spent 4-5 rounds from your magazine, yet only one bullet hole and hit effect resulted per burst. For the same CPU usage reasons, I figure.

Again mod makers can - CPU permitting - turn the guns into Total Ingrams™ with separate muzzle flash emitters per gun, and a bullet impact particle effect per every bullet fired.

My absolute favorite mod-tweak has got to be an Ingram firing helicopter chaingun bullets at that same insane rate of fire. The mayhem! images/icons/grin.gif

Blackmask
07-11-2001, 10:02 AM
Hehe.. If I were Peter Hajba I would spend the first 2 months after finishing Max Payne relaxing and then I would start bitching and nit picking at the mod makers..IS IT DONE YET? WHY NOT? Why isn't this like this, why isn't this like that, why is the level not ever so slightly curved like the earth in real life? blahblah blah... oh well.. I'm not Peter Hajba.. but there's a good idea for relieving stress..muwuahah

nephron
07-11-2001, 02:51 PM
Something I noticed in this exact same scene...the 2nd pic where Max is crouching before his dive while firing, his left arm almost looks too long. Just an observation.

Guest
07-11-2001, 03:38 PM
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
Yes, of course, but you can't define everything as toggleable, that would get way too complicated (not to mention laborous to implement).<hr></blockquote>

What I mean by toggleable is toggelable by the developer. If you left every possible option to the gamer, setting up the game could take hours.

"hmm, the z-buffer should be about 6000, gravity at 9.8. ok, what do you think about 0.25 for the glass transparency?"

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SkavenRMD:
My absolute favorite mod-tweak has got to be an Ingram firing helicopter chaingun bullets at that same insane rate of fire. The mayhem! images/icons/grin.gif<hr></blockquote>

MUAH HA HA!
/giggles frighteningly

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by nephron:
Something I noticed in this exact same scene...the 2nd pic where Max is crouching before his dive while firing, his left arm almost looks too long. Just an observation.<hr></blockquote>

Great, now you'r on skaven's list

Gryph
07-11-2001, 03:56 PM
I think the game looks just fine by me. I don't see any need in nitpicking. Not that you were biXen. That was just observation. But this opened up a whole new thread for stupid newbies to come bitching about that.

BEAT 'EM SKAVEN!!

hollowpoint
07-11-2001, 08:43 PM
im a newbie.....

im not complainin.....

skaven already explained why the ingrams are funky.

id rather play maxpayne with funky smgs than play a really slow game.

THERES ALWAYS MODS THOUGH! (for, y'know, people who can handle the extra detail) images/icons/wink.gif

Flagg
07-12-2001, 12:44 AM
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Hehe.. If I were Peter Hajba I would spend the first 2 months after finishing Max Payne relaxing and then I would start bitching and nit picking at the mod makers..IS IT DONE YET? WHY NOT? Why isn't this like this, why isn't this like that, why is the level not ever so slightly curved like the earth in real life? blahblah blah... oh well.. I'm not Peter Hajba.. but there's a good idea for relieving stress..muwuahah<hr></blockquote>

LMAO images/icons/grin.gif

RollingBrass
07-12-2001, 12:47 AM
If I were Peter Hajba, I would spend the 2 months after release accumulating names and addresses of all the whiners and unsatiated question-askers, then track them down and beat them about the head and shoulders with a stick.

DelitaHex
10-23-2003, 11:08 AM
I've reposted this because of my bolt action espianoge http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

biXen
10-23-2003, 01:19 PM
I've reposted this because of my bolt action espianoge http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



My dark past. Well back then I was almost threw off the board for mouthing off too, so what do you know, the world changes, you can too http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Drazula
10-23-2003, 01:31 PM
Remedy... those bastards!

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

ADM
10-23-2003, 01:49 PM
it's not a bug, it's a feature.



haha http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif That's classic.

That's what all Game Developers need to say about any bugs that turn up!

Little Timmy: I can't get this game to work! There must be a bug or something!
Game Developer: It's not a bug Timmy. It's a feature!


http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/woot.gif

SkavenRMD
10-23-2003, 02:26 PM
Ooohhh, shame on you digging up old fusty topics like these!

Well, for what it's worth, that "feature" (seeing the muzzle flashes "curve the wrong way" when you turn fast during bullet time) is now actually fixed. It was a matter of which particles should be emitted first... in Max Payne 1, the slow particles were emitted first and fast particles last (just because I happened to make the muzzle flashes that way around), and when I realized it had to be the other way around, it was already too late.

Sequel == a chance to fix a few old problems and introduce a few new ones.

ADM
10-23-2003, 02:34 PM
Ahh ok cool.. but blame Delita for bumping the old thread http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

DelitaHex
10-24-2003, 12:36 PM
ALRIGHT! i finally did something on the MP forums that people can laugh with!

But I mean REALLY! isn't it wierd, I remember reading this a long time ago! even before Max Payne 1 was out... wow! I love time.