DNF Physics

[General Failure]

http://www.nyteknik.se/art/36014

The page is in swedish. It claims that 3drealms is using a physics-engine called Meqon. This doesn't make sense to me, since George has told us they are using Mathengine (karma). But this page is certainly not a page that makes up news to get attention. They don't even write about games in normal cases, and this article isn't even focused on DNF but rather the company Meqon. This makes me believe it could actually be true. It also claims the development of DNF is heading towards the end.

Anyway, I had the chance to meet the creators of Meqon a year ago during a lecture, and I must say to me this is great news. They showcased their engine, and they had some awesome stuff with cloth physics and water (maybe this is the famous "stuff" the water is claimed to do http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif)

Check out this demo: http://www.meqon.com/downloadarea/meqon-demos-1.3.1.zip

(sorry about my poor english)

[Nacho]

Very interesting news...It may be true as well.

[General Failure]

I've done some more research, and it seems Mathengine was bought up by Criterion Software. Criterion are the creators of Renderware. The article in my first post says that some developers (including 3drealms?) are afraid that EA won't let other developers than their own use Renderware. This could very well explain the move to meqon. I sure hope this won't slow down the development too much

[Agulf]

The article was released today (040906) @ 13:36 - both of your posts were written @ 11... Now maybe I'm to tierd right now but this doessnt seem right...

"För fysiken i spelet står svenska spelteknikutvecklaren Meqon. "

Meqon stands for the game physics?
Either GB needs to tell Jonas to &quote ;"stfu imo" &endquote ;D to stop the leak, or this is not true...

"Den riktiga uppföljaren, Duke Nukem Forever, har dock låtit vänta på sig. På 3DRealms hemsida står det fortfarande att spelet ska komma ut "när det är färdigt". Men ett slutdatum för utvecklingen kan nu vara på gång, delvis tack vare svensk spelteknik. "

It basicly sais that DNF has been delayed and that this homepage still has the WID-mark up, but that partially thanks to swedish gaming technology, a release date might be on the way... Uhm...

[General Failure]

Agulf said:
The article was released today (040906) @ 13:36 - both of your posts were written @ 11... Now maybe I'm to tierd right now but this doessnt seem right...

Damn, you're on to me! *hides away mysteriously looking device*

That article is written in Sweden, not in the states http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


Agulf said:
"För fysiken i spelet står svenska spelteknikutvecklaren Meqon. "

Meqon stands for the game physics?
Either GB needs to tell Jonas to &quote ;"stfu imo" &endquote ;D to stop the leak, or this is not true...

I wonder if they have to keep such things secret?

[Agulf]

Lol ok http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif yes how stupid of me ;D... sorry.

If "They" changed physengine, thats a pretty big step issnt it? and wouldnt "They" tell <I>uss</I> first?
Like.. News... And... Woooaaaah *remembers what he red on main page...* "We've all been busy working, so never fear, Duke is still here. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif"....

[Beelze]

Being Swedish and all I can also confirm that the article states DNF is using it. If that's true or not, well I don't know. Maybe George could confirm this? Really, would it spoil anything?

[Zaarin]

As for being Finnish myself and the fact that I can read Swedish, I can say it's true. George hasn't said anything about what physics engine DNF is using and he really should comment on this. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Beelze]

Being Swedish and all, I can safely say I agree with you.

[NutWrench]

Having Swedish ancestors but being born in the U.S., I can safely say that I didn't understand anything on that page. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Gryph]

Not being Sweding or Finnish I will take your guys word for it and agree with you.

That Meqon demo is fun. Thanks General Failure. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Fat John]

The scaffold demo was the most fun for me, but the mesh one didn't work at all for me.

[Beelze]

Being Swedish and all ... eh, whatever... I like the water demo the most, because it's new to me.

[DudeMiester]

It's not an engine change, just a component of the engine. I'm sure they have an abstraction layer on top of their physics component, so it would only require altering the internals of that interface. I don't think it would take a huge amount of time.

[Micki!]

Being Swedish and all ... eh, whatever... I like the water demo the most, because it's new to me.



Being Danish and not Swedish (there isn't any big difference anyway) i would say... "Let's ask George..!" http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Major Lag]

If "They" changed physengine, thats a pretty big step issnt it? and wouldnt "They" tell <I>uss</I> first?
Like.. News...



Do they ever tell us anything http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[TBZ]

Translated the article the best I could, probably lots and lots of spelling mistakes.. But here you go http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Swedish game-engine to bring in delayed "run-and-gun game"
The development of Duke Nukem Forever, one of the most delayed and anticipated sequel, is heading towards the end. The physics is handled by the Swedish gametech-developer Meqon.

Duke Nukem 3D from the American 3DRealms was one of the most succesfull "run-and-gun games" that followed Doom in the mid-1990. Since then there have been realesed countless of games with Duke Nukem.

The real sequel have taken it's time though. On 3DRealms homepage the realese date is still "When It's Done". But a realese date may come soon, partially thanks to Swedish technology.


The company from Norrköping, have specialised on the code that controls the physics in computer games.
To controll how objects and characters react to each other and the world in the game, 3DRealms have taken help from Meqon.

(Info about what the physics do etc)

Meqon have about ten companys that use the engine today.
- But we're negotiating with about 30 more companies, says Jonas Lindqvist.

He believes that the big interest in the companys technology right now is beacuse one of the biggest gamedeveloper/publisher(?), Electronic Arts, have bought the Brittish company Criterion and their gamedevelopment-tool Renderware.

Some of the developers we have spoken to says that theirs publisher demands that they look for alternatives to Renderware, explains Jonas Lindqvist.
That is beacuse the developers/publishers is afraid that Electronic Arts only is going to let "their own" developers use Renderware in the future

[Major Lag]

hmmm interesting ta for that

[General Failure]

GryphonKlaw said:
Not being Sweding or Finnish I will take your guys word for it and agree with you.

That Meqon demo is fun. Thanks General Failure. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

"det var så lite" as we say in sweden (okay, let's stop it with this swedish nonsense already! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif)


DudeMiester said:
It's not an engine change, just a component of the engine. I'm sure they have an abstraction layer on top of their physics component, so it would only require altering the internals of that interface. I don't think it would take a huge amount of time.

That's true. Guess I really didn't think that far. Let's just hope they didn't have to do any major modifications to the engine.

Oh, by the way: great translation TBZ! Would have done it myself but I'm not too comfortable with the english language just yet. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[dark_angel]

Jonas response to a thread I post it in the meqon forums:


Yes, Meqon is being used by a number of games under development, but our policy is not to keep it silent until the games are finished. I can tell you that you can look for a release in the near future though!

If you are interested in getting a reference to talk to I can arrange that.

Regarding comparisons with other physics packages I recommend you to read this thread:
http://meqon.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=51
where this is discussed.

How could I possibly have a comment on DNF, when 3DRealms themselves does not comment on it? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

/jonas



I emailed him regarding if meqon is beeing used to power DNF physics. I will post the reply whenever I get his response.( if it yes then we should expect the " no comment " response )

[Blue Demon]

Not being swedish and being mexican, all I can say is that I would like to take some Vacations in Sweden http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[IHerman]

General Failure said:
Check out this demo: http://www.meqon.com/downloadarea/meqon-demos-1.3.1.zip


After messing around with the demo, for about half an hour, I hope DNF can do stuff like that. Allthough it could use a little tweaking. (entire stocks of boxes can balance on one single box...)

I can remember George mentioning a physics engine (Karma) but that was a long time ago. I'm sure they will choose a very good physics engine with all the interactivity and all.

[Yatta]

It claims that 3drealms is using a physics-engine called Meqon. This doesn't make sense to me, since George has told us they are using Mathengine (karma).


You're both wrong. We're using the Havok engine. http://www.havok.com/

[IHerman]

Yatta said:
<font color="red">We</font>'re using the Havok engine. http://www.havok.com/


Say what?

[Duoae]

IHerman said:

Yatta said:
<font color="red">We</font>'re using the Havok engine. http://www.havok.com/


Say what?



That's what i thought. There's been a couple of posts in which he's referred to 3DRealms in the royal-games company "we".

[EDIT] the little mess-around tool was great fun too! I loved toying with those little walking guys http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif shame they had an area limit......

[Yatta]

Err, I meant they.<font color="#1F1F22">NOT!</font>

[IHerman]

Be careful with that. You don't want an angry mob in your frontyard, demanding DNF-screenshots.

[Rider]

this thing is sweet, and as I noticed, the source code is in there too. (can anyone confirm/deny this?)

I would love to build a minigame where you shoot balls at incoming cubes...

... or something like that http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Duoae]

Rider said:
I would love to build a minigame where you shoot balls at incoming cubes...

... or something like that http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif



The new "snake / Tetris" is born.....

[Rider]

I have an engine, now who would like to code for me? I've got a great idea!!

yeah, we could use MD2 models...
and MP3/OGG support
and real-time lighting
and actual textures
bump mapping

the works!

Then we'd build Netcode!

a very solid one!

And we'd ofcourse improve the way the current dude moves.

We'd also build a very easy to use editor!

Make almost everything interact!

Add something that acts like Geomodding...

Ofcourse we'll release it only WID

But It'll be worth it!

and we'd make it as Moddable as possible!

Naturally I'd do at least the same amount of work as anyone else (I'm not George http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

So who's with me?

[Fat John]

Rider said:
I have an engine, now who would like to code for me? I've got a great idea!!

yeah, we could use MD2 models...
and MP3/OGG support
and real-time lighting
and actual textures
bump mapping

the works!

Then we'd build Netcode!

a very solid one!

And we'd ofcourse improve the way the current dude moves.

We'd also build a very easy to use editor!

Make almost everything interact!

Add something that acts like Geomodding...

Ofcourse we'll release it only WID

But It'll be worth it!

and we'd make it as Moddable as possible!

Naturally I'd do at least the same amount of work as anyone else (I'm not George http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

So who's with me?



Me. I know a bit of qbasic.

[Rider]

I know Basic, Visual Basic, Some Pascal and Some C and C++

but I'll be darned if I can figure out this thing...

so what... besides coding... can you give the project?

[General Failure]

Yatta said:

It claims that 3drealms is using a physics-engine called Meqon. This doesn't make sense to me, since George has told us they are using Mathengine (karma).


You're both wrong. We're using the Havok engine. http://www.havok.com/

Since when? Never heard that before. Do you have any quotes to get me updated? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Because the last thing I heard, they were still using karma
http://www.nlgaming.com/nl/asp/id_1391/nl/gameDetail.htm

[General Failure]

Just got an answer from the guy who wrote the article, and he claims he got the information from both Meqon and 3drealms. Seems strange if you consider 3drealms policy against the press, but nothing is impossible I guess. We really need George to shed some light on this mess.

[Agulf]

http://www.havok.com/clients/titles.php

I sure don't see dnf on this page...
At least there's a picture of duke on nlgaming...
But the swedish article seems so ture... If a gamer wrote the article, that person would have called the game a shoot-em-up and not "run-shoot game"... Wouldn't they? So this lad might have...
Idunno... yharr!

[Yatta]

Agulf said:
http://www.havok.com/clients/titles.php

I sure don't see dnf on this page...


Neither do I, but I remember seeing them on that website's page before. Maybe I imagined it all. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[dark_angel]

Its true guys.

DNF is powered by the meqon physics engine.

Jonas was sweet enough to confirm that !

Hail to the New Duke

[Yatta]

dark_angel said:


Jonas was sweet enough to confirm that !




http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif Wait, hold on. You don't mean this guy (http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/showprofile.php?Cat=0&User=2666&what=search&Searchpage=1&topic=), do you? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[dark_angel]

lol !

First of all kick ass avatar yatta http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hhg.gif

And no not this jonas http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Its jonas_g from meqon team, you can check meqon's Forum (http://www.meqon.com/forum) and see what I am talking about http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Duoae]

Rider said:
I have an engine, now who would like to code for me? I've got a great idea!!

yeah, we could use MD2 models...
and MP3/OGG support
and real-time lighting
and actual textures
bump mapping

the works!

Then we'd build Netcode!

a very solid one!

And we'd ofcourse improve the way the current dude moves.

We'd also build a very easy to use editor!

Make almost everything interact!

Add something that acts like Geomodding...

Ofcourse we'll release it only WID

But It'll be worth it!

and we'd make it as Moddable as possible!

Naturally I'd do at least the same amount of work as anyone else (I'm not George http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

So who's with me?



I can map! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[NetNessie]

General Failure said:
Just got an answer from the guy who wrote the article, and he claims he got the information from both Meqon and 3drealms. Seems strange if you consider 3drealms policy against the press, but nothing is impossible I guess. We really need George to shed some light on this mess.



Thats true. Its all conjecture until we see something from 3DR.

Any comments George?

Btw, that physics engine is look pretty nice judging from the Demo. However I got the strangest frequency effects in that water simulator. It just went everywere then went crazy.

[Blade Nightflame]

Everybody waarned you! The water does 'stuff'

[IwantMORE]

I don't see why George should have to confirm this, if the company say's 3DR bought the engine off them, then why can't you take it a true that they are using it?

I know many developers are evaluating the EA / Criterion takeover and don't believe EA when they say, "sure we'll give other devlopers the same level of support".

[NetNessie]

IwantMORE said:
I don't see why George should have to confirm this, if the company say's 3DR bought the engine off them, then why can't you take it a true that they are using it?




Only beacuse this forum has seen its close calls with rumours before. We've almost learnt that its not a good to jump the gun until we have had it confirmed fully.

[Beelze]

Rider said:
I have an engine, now who would like to code for me? I've got a great idea!!

yeah, we could use MD2 models...
and MP3/OGG support
and real-time lighting
and actual textures
bump mapping

the works!

Then we'd build Netcode!

a very solid one!

And we'd ofcourse improve the way the current dude moves.

We'd also build a very easy to use editor!

Make almost everything interact!

Add something that acts like Geomodding...

Ofcourse we'll release it only WID

But It'll be worth it!

and we'd make it as Moddable as possible!

Naturally I'd do at least the same amount of work as anyone else (I'm not George http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

So who's with me?


I'm willing to criticize.

[Rider]

ok so we have artists/mappers/critics now a coder to put our ideas and suggestions in an actual game!

Or should I create a new thread somewhere??

[Fat John]

^Are you actually serious? What is the game you are making again?

[Rider]

that has yet to be decided on, first I wanted to see how far the engine can be reverse-engineered, seeing how the Source is included with it... and I never saw anything in that program how it is copyrighted and cannot be used in your own projects.

that and building a 3D Game has always seemed really cool to me, so here's a chance and I intend to take it to the fullest.

In the worst scenario they're gonna tell us (dev. team http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif) that we can't release it publicly... so we'll make it a private release, only for friends and forum members and stuff. And It'll still be fun to work on, not to mention the fact that we'd probably learn tons from it!

In the best scenario they're gonna like what we do and let us release it commercially, and put a link on their website or whatever.

either way it'll be fun! So, as I asked before, who's with me? For real?

[General Failure]

Rider said:
that has yet to be decided on, first I wanted to see how far the engine can be reverse-engineered, seeing how the Source is included with it... and I never saw anything in that program how it is copyrighted and cannot be used in your own projects.

that and building a 3D Game has always seemed really cool to me, so here's a chance and I intend to take it to the fullest.

In the worst scenario they're gonna tell us (dev. team http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif) that we can't release it publicly... so we'll make it a private release, only for friends and forum members and stuff. And It'll still be fun to work on, not to mention the fact that we'd probably learn tons from it!

In the best scenario they're gonna like what we do and let us release it commercially, and put a link on their website or whatever.

either way it'll be fun! So, as I asked before, who's with me? For real?

I'm pretty sure you can't compile the source without the complete package. Besides, even if You could, the Meqon team surely got their legal bases covered. You'd be better off checking out a free complete engine with proper documentation

[Micki!]

What engine do you think is the BEST one??
- Megon...
- Or Havok??

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[Gryph]

Meqon since 3DR has apparantly chosen it. Now George Broussard (or any other team member) has to verify this and then we can make all the conjectures we want. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Rider]

alright, different question: Who would be interrested to construct a 3D engine and make a neat game out of it?

Story and game type are yet to be decided so you can make up your own story at this point. As pointed out in earlyer posts the engine will be moddable at least so the possibilities are quite limitless.

so like I said: Who'd be interrested to create a 3D engine?

[Reaper]

I'd be interested, but I don't have any skills. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
<insert something actually related to the thread>

[Elmurfud]

Well as i have virtualy no knowledge of programming. I can't be of any help with the engine. But I have many other skills of use in game developement.
graphics design (assotiates degree)
level building (active hobby)
writer (semi regularly published)
cinamatographer (I have made a few movies including a pbs documentary)
skecth artist (normally via commision)
hardware guru (have a pc building business, mostly for gamers)
extensive research library on fantasy, folklore, mythology, and other topics. (1000 - 2000 books).
ect.

[KaiserSoze]

that demo is pretty fun.

the water does "stuff". http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Elmurfud]

I like the cube stack. yanking stuff from the bottom till it all falls is quite entertaining. For a couple secounds.

[Gryph]

I like doing that one with slow motion.

[IHerman]

GryphonKlaw said:
I like doing that one with slow motion.


Slow motion?

I've been playing with that for 15 minutes now. Everytime I'm bored, I go play with the box-stack. Somebody has to make a game out of that. (better than Bontago, which was quite neat, but not fun enough)

I hope these physics engines bring up some new cool games with lot's of stuff flying around. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[IwantMORE]

Rider said:
alright, different question: Who would be interrested to construct a 3D engine and make a neat game out of it?

Story and game type are yet to be decided so you can make up your own story at this point. As pointed out in earlyer posts the engine will be moddable at least so the possibilities are quite limitless.

so like I said: Who'd be interrested to create a 3D engine?



There are plenty of open source 3D engines out there which you could modify, with the right skills, are you realy talking about greating a new 3D engine from scratch. I would not see the point.

[Horizon55]

I thought it was the Karma engine fron that was the engine that was already in the Unreal engine when they where advertising that version.http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Rider]

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/sh...;vc=#Post672000 (http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=672000&page=0&vc=#Post672000)

new thread about making a 3D game...

Please take this discussion in there http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Agulf]

lol, press & hold left mb on a box, and then press right -
then press n hold left on annother box... ;D
ive made a monster, and im currently jumping around with it picking up more boxes ;D haha

you can also pull the boxes through the ground or have lots of them spinning around like sphere

lol gimme 2 minutes with a thing... lol wtf happened to gravity Im watching a bunch of cubes in the air... lol gotta post this screen¨

<edit: press and hold left mb down on a box, and then press right mb>

[Rider]

yeah it makes them jump away... try picking up the car in the vehicle mode though, and move it a bit. It'll start spinning uncontrollably!

[yossa]

Well, Kyle Davis is a member of their forums:

http://www.meqon.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=80

[Fat John]

And who is Kyle Davis?

[yossa]

And what is google? Nah, you wouldn't find anyway.

Our most up to date info is that he is a programmer. Joined 3DR in july 2002.

[Fat John]

So that's pretty conclusive IMO.

[Cerberus_e]

why are the objects spinning like a body that will be beheaded if you pick them up?

[IHerman]

They ain't going nowhere if you stick their heads together!

http://www.heavyroad.com/misc/rugby.jpg

Man this is even more fun than I thought! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hhg.gif

You should see them, it's like one heap of fighting puppets. Or a gangbang, whatever you like.

[Needle]

yossa said:
And what is google? Nah, you wouldn't find anyway.

Our most up to date info is that he is a programmer. Joined 3DR in july 2002.


I just googled for him and found this (http://duke.gry-online.pl/tworcy.php). To bad its polish. Looks interessting.

[yossa]

I'm Polish. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Agulf]

translate? pretty please ;D

[dark_angel]

Kyle is Drunk ! (http://www.3drealms.com/camera/121903.html)

[General Failure]

yossa said:
I'm Polish. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

That means you've got some work to do! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Agulf]

I got bored so heres a cratestack, 20 boxes... cheated a bit as I used the structure but hey ;P...

[yossa]

I've got some other work to do, besides this list is outdated and since 3DR doesn't feel like giving the current list, there's no point in rehashing the old stuff.

[Rider]

I'm gonna go play around with that physics engine again.

would be cool if some people would join our discussion about the 3D Game...

Yeah I'm talking about you! I order you to scroll up and click on that link to the other thread.

What you're not gonna do that? I can't make you? Very well...

if you don't go up and click that link I'll post a picture of your mother in a bathtub... IN THIS THREAD!

There, now that's the spirit!

[Fat John]

Look what I did.

[yossa]

http://www.meqon.com/news/20040927.php

[Major Lag]

Ppl are still talking about this i only kicked it up to make it easier for refrence

[Joe Siegler]

Bump. We have several threads about this going, this is the one we'll use, as it was started the earliest.

If you want to read the others, they're here:

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=686953

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=687390

[Joe Siegler]

As has been reported in several places on the Internet over the last day or so, an announcement was made yesterday that the Meqon Game Dynamics SDK has been purchased by us for use in Duke Nukem Forever. Meqon put out a press release regarding this yesterday on their site (which crashed from all the net traffic that got sent their way). Here's a copy of the press release:
3D Realms buys physics for Duke Nukem Forever
27th of September, 2004

Meqon is glad to announce that 3D Realms have decided to buy our Meqon Game Dynamics SDK for their upcoming title Duke Nukem Forever.

Meqon’s product strategy has always been to create the most easy to use and flexible physics engine on the market, but without compromising the computational speed. George Broussard, CEO of 3DRealms comments – “We evaluated several physics SDK's and Meqon was really fast, had the cleanest interface and integrated into our game very quickly.”

The Meqon Game Dynamics SDK does not only handle basic rigid body simulation but also contain highly advanced character and vehicle modules. Mr Broussard comments – “With its advanced feature set, we feel confident that Meqon's next generation physics engine can help us create the next generation of action games.”

It's being discussed on our forums right now in this thread . 3D Realms President George Broussard has weighed in on the announcement in these threads, so if you're interested in the latest, you should check 'em out.

Furthermore, there is an interview online with Marcus Lysen, CEO of Meqon about their game technology, and this announcement. Make sure to check that out over at HomeLAN Fed.

http://www.homelanfed.com/index.php?id=26367

[nossr50]

Very interesting interview, im actually happy your using meqon after playing there demo. That shits amazing http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif, I knocked over boxes for about 4 hours rofl.

[KaiserSoze]

we should have some pretty good games of "pool" in dnf.

i was playing around with the box and balls demo. couldn't help but think of a casino or bar with pool tables.

and a carnival midway with all types of games you can play like busting bottles, shooting cans, shooting baskets, etc.

2010 for sure. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[TKM]

holy shit ... finaly a rumor is true http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Kalki]

Importing from Drazula's locked thread for reference:


Originally posted by George Broussard:
>>There must be considerable advantages to Megon over Karma for you to make the switch. What are they?

IMO, Karma was first gen. Havok was second gen. Meqon is third gen. It's way way faster than Karma ever was, and it does more, and it's cleaner to use. I know Havok is working on next gen stuff now, but it's not available yet.

>>A while ago, GB said all physics engines were basically the same. Did this change with the new generation of physics engines?

At the time they were. That is no longer the case.

>> Has the improvements in the physics engines "changed" DNF content?

It will allow us to do more with physics and we will do what we can to make things cool.

>> Rather than another switch, why not just build yer own damn physics engine?

Physics engines are one of the hardest things to write, so it's best left to a middleware solution.

>>I thought the DNF engine was done. Why are you guys messing with it now?

The rendering has been done a long time. The physics we had have been in for 3 years. We had a ton of physics gameplay code on top of Karma. All we did was replace the low level stuff with Meqon and re-hook it up to our high level stuff.

Why did we do it? Because Karma was too slow to do anything we were trying to do. I don't feel it was a shippable solution, and in fact very few game shipped with it, doing much more than ragdoll.

This is a *very* good thing for the game.

>>Worry not, surely it won't take more than two weeks.
LOL.

You joke, but it's a fairly small scale thing to do. The bulk of the work was done in a couple of weeks and there will be a couple more. That's about like adding in any standard new system to the game, and we have dozens of small, little one month projects that the game is built upon.

But going forward this is incredibly good for the game.





So can characters recover from ragdoll mode yet?

Draz had posted an interesting video from a package called Endorphin. Was that considered and tested alongwith the likes of Meqon?

Anyway the adding of a new sub-system may be good news on the content front but I wouldn't take any time-frame estimates too seriously. We've all been down that road before.

[loqii]

W0WZ OMFG PHYSICZ OMG OMG~!11

What was wrong with the Physics engine in Max Payne 2? You'd think if 3D Realms has a relationship with a developing company, they could just borrow the engine from that and call it good - or.. heaven forbid, maybe make their OWN stuff?

[Needle]

loqii said:
W0WZ OMFG PHYSICZ OMG OMG~!11

What was wrong with the Physics engine in Max Payne 2? You'd think if 3D Realms has a relationship with a developing company, they could just borrow the engine from that and call it good - or.. heaven forbid, maybe make their OWN stuff?


Remedy didn't make their own physics engine.

[codefish]

loqii said:
W0WZ OMFG PHYSICZ OMG OMG~!11

What was wrong with the Physics engine in Max Payne 2? You'd think if 3D Realms has a relationship with a developing company, they could just borrow the engine from that and call it good - or.. heaven forbid, maybe make their OWN stuff?



Max Payne 2 used Havok. As for creating their own, read what George posted http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Anyway, after testing out the physics demos from meqon, I'm really looking forward to seeing this stuff in action! The water did so much neat stuff! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Agulf]

meqon demo 1.4 is out (if anyone SOMEHOW missed that) and theres more stuff doing stuff... ;D

Hmm I was certain this was only a rumor - joe closed this thread with the words "closing thread as it does not have anything to do with dnf anymore" or something...

----------------

I just red some posts at evil avatar (http://www.evilavatar.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=6204&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0)...

:yawn: http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/brickwall.gif :drool: http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mryuck.gif

[Mr.Blud]

I loved the one where the little guys fell and their arms and legs were treading air, gonna be real good to see people fall from Casino roofs in DNF doing that. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Kalki]

Forgot to add the Shacknews quote!
GB said:

Here how it works. You have a physcis engine that does things low level, basic things, like move objects in the world, handle constraints, ragdolls, and all of that. On top of that you build a lots of high level gameplay code that allows you to do things with physics objects. That's where most of the development time goes.

So when incorporating a new physics engine, all the high level game code stays and just needs to have the new physics function calls replace the old physics calls.

So within a couple of weeks we had most of the gameplay back up and running, but now we could move 200 boxes in the world at a time, instead of 10-20.

The integration will end up being about a month of one persons time, simply to hook up the new Meqon function calls to a couple hundred high level gameplay functions we had to deal with physics objects.

Basically it's like having a car, and you do something like replace one system in it like and engine, or the air conditioner, or something. The rest of the car stays in place and you just deal with hooking up the new piece to the old car.

This isn't a radical engine change like changing renderers where you have to create new content for the visuals.

[Orochi Avlis]

loqii said:
W0WZ OMFG PHYSICZ OMG OMG~!11

What was wrong with the Physics engine in Max Payne 2? You'd think if 3D Realms has a relationship with a developing company, they could just borrow the engine from that and call it good - or.. heaven forbid, maybe make their OWN stuff?


loqii, please learn how the gaming buisness works before you post stuff like this.

[IHerman]

The Meqon 1.4 demo is pretty cool. I'd love to see a game with loads and loads of objects thet use physics.

the demo also shows some examples of using physics for something rather than decoration.

I have a job now, and within months I will have a nice amount of money on my bank account to buy a new PC, I'm kind of guessing at the tie DNF comes out I will need a new one anyway. I wanna funny use every feature or eyecandy it comes with.

[Java the Hutt]

Is this new physics engine where that previous thread about a new game engine started?
http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/sh...p;page=0#681560 (http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=681560&an=0&page=0#681560)

[Night Hacker]

I just got done playing around with the Meqon demo, that is AMAZING! Screw the rest of the games out there, DNF is going to rock!

What impressed me the most about the demos were the Particle, Water and Cloth physics, they were amazing and once I seen the piston demo I instantly could see many many many possibilities for "puzzles" in DNF, more than simply getting a key, but perhaps activating machinery etc... the possibilities are endless and it seems like it is fairly easy to implement. 3DR would be fools NOT to use it! I know I was drooling like crazy. My mind goes numb just trying to imagine the programming that went into creating such a physics engine.

I am curious, what about their engine impressed you the most George?

Anyhow, this is one of 3DR's better descisions, I doubt anyone will argue against it once they seen the demo. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Nasta]

Wow, long reading...Great news. Meqon sounds like the real deal for Duke. Only one month of drawback for ten times as much of mess in the game. Sweet. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dopefish.gif
Maybe 2 more years until it's done?
Ooookay,..do it your way. G,night http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

I thought this was a bit improbable. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Rider]

Inanimate Carbon Rod said:
I thought this was a bit improbable. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif



yeah it needs tweaking...

[hell-angel]

Rider said:

Inanimate Carbon Rod said:
I thought this was a bit improbable. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif



yeah it needs tweaking...



I only depends on how sturdy you "create" the connections between the pipes. If you "create" them to hold onless shot at this would very well be possible. However, if you create them to break under a certain weight this will not be possible.

That simple. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Yeah, it was explained to me why it is that way.


Anyway, I really do like how the walls seem to be implemented.

[Mr. Milton]

You can group two objects together by pulling one of them and then clicking the right mouse button simultaneously. Then pick up another object and do the same.
All objects grouped like this will follow when you pull any object around.
I'm not sure if this is a bug I just discovered or some already known feature. Seems like Fat John found this out aswell...

[Night Hacker]

Inanimate Carbon Rod said:
I thought this was a bit improbable. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif



Actually, I think it is completely possible. If you look carefull and think about it a bit, both ends are supported, if you take out the center bottom as in that image, there is still plenty of support above as each side would be leaning in against each other. Remember, these pieces are all connected to each other so they won't simply collapse.

Anyhow, I think it looks normal.

[SantaCruzer]

it looks very possible to me. Meqon owns! so does DNF!

[IHerman]

The new demo has some good improvements. For example, this isn't possible anymore (pic from 1.3.1):

http://www.heavyroad.com/misc/yeahright.gif

[mysteryperfecta]

The first game headed to retail that uses Meqon physics is called Shade. I happen to have a demo of the game on my computer, so I'll share my impressions of the physics in action.

*Draped fabric moved fairly realistically. As in the Meqon tech demo, though, if you moved your character quickly through fabric you just disturbed, your character passes right through the fabric. The line holding the fabric up seemed too elastic, as if the fabric were being held up by rubber bands. I don't know how favorable this compares to Hitman's fabric movement from years ago.

*Ragdoll deaths were pretty floppy. The characters could have used stiffer joints. Also, a "bobble head" effect happened more than once on a felled enemy. Their head would literally bobble on their dead bodies. Similiarly, broken pieces of barrel wouldn't come to rest nearly as quickly as they should.

*One cool thing was how "wind" affected objects. Fabric, clothes lines, etc. swayed realistically in the breeze.

Granted, Shade is a little indie title. I'm sure 3dr can work out many of the kinks I saw dispayed in Shade.

[Fat John]

Here's what I managed exploiting the RMB + LMB trick. This thing was spinning indefinately.

[Micki!]

Try to make a nuclear core next time... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Fat John]

Micki! said:
Try to make a nuclear core next time... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif



I don't think the strong and weak nuclear forces are included in Meqon. Can someone confirm that? George?

[Micki!]

GB: "Of course there will be nuclear forces in DNF that's the only thing OUR version of Meqon can do... Does it work Different in the demo???"

Just making fun http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Orochi Avlis]

I would love to see a nuke go off and everything around it crumble and react like it should physically. Like trees bending, breaking, catching fire, cars being lifted up, heavy winds etc etc.

[Micki!]

Lets'e hope that there will be at least effects in some SDK tools that makes this possible... (New weapons http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif mod...)

[Kalki]

Thanks for those impressions mp. I'm sure George would agree that those are the hiccups seen in most physics systems that simply need to be tweaked to look right in the game. I wonder if their high-level already compensates for this stuff and if it doesn't, how long would it take?

[Beelze]

Well, now that we know about meqon, could George offer some more tidbits on what stuff the water does? Is it like in meqon?

[Kalki]

Beelze said:
Well, now that we know about meqon, could George offer some more tidbits on what stuff the water does? Is it like in meqon?



:: Freeze-ray ::

[yossa]

Download the attachment, change the filename to liquid.xml and put it into data\custom folder (backup first)

See - water does "stuff" http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Nacho]

How I love "stuff".

Especially when the "stuff" does "stuff".

[Ryanthelurkster]

I hope dnf is even better than people think it wiil be http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Water12356]

Most exelent.

[Gryph]

Here is an interview with the Meqon guys and the words Duke Nukem: Forever are mentioned.

http://www.totalvideogames.com/pages/articles/index.php?article_id=6515

[Chainsaw Bunny]

Valve have said how throughout making half life 2, the physics have been implemented into gameplay. The reviews say HL2 physics are integral to the game experience.

Does it not seem very late in Duke's development to be implementing physics?

Is megan just been thrown into the game for graphical effects, rather than an integral part of gameplay?

[Kristian Joensen]

Does it not seem very late in Duke's development to be implementing physics?



They have inplemeted physics a very long time ago.

[FireFly]

3 years ago to be exact.

[Orochi Avlis]

They just want it to be complete and much better.

[DudeMiester]

And playable (an in framerate)

[Nacho]

and strippers.

[Rider]

Nacho said:
and strippers.



OMG DNF HAS STRIPPERS???!!???

[Micki!]

Rider said:

Nacho said:
and strippers.



OMG DNF HAS STRIPPERS???!!???


OMG... Is that news??? I Really didn't knew that http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Major Lag]

re re re re re repeat

[Nessus]

Womens hair will now sway realistically, skirts will blow up in the wind just right, breasts and boobs will jiggle with precision and a pipebomb tossed in the panty drawer will produce realistic effects.

[Waiter]

Cool demo! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I love the way the water surface moves if you pull one of the sticks around under the surface.

[MDxm3000]

I never tought so many Swedish people browsed this forum http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Alright being Swedish and all, I just realised History repeat itself.
Duke3D to compete with the Doom games.
(Common to compare those two)
And now when Doom3 is out DNF is going on the same route as last time. Yet again to slap the Doom game in the face.

Interesting news tough. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The Trespasser/Havok physics seem obsolete when trying the Meqon Demo. Wonder exactly how it will work inside the Unreal Engine? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hhg.gif

[Kalki]

I would like to know if prediction ever takes over from the physics when it comes to explosions, etc in DNF? Watching some of the old HL2 videos, it seems too coincidental that things are either attracted to impact the player's position or his vehicle; or enemy characters and their vehicles; or to other physics objects so that a chain of physics events can be built.

In the case of an explosion involving a lot of debris, physics could be arbitrary and a single chunk of a barrel or a metal splinter could randomly be governed by prediction code and land exactly where the player should be if he keeps moving at the same speed and along the same path. Makes the gameworld that much more dangerous wouldn't you agree?

[Brimba]

Me - Being Swedish and all, are happy with the progress of DNF. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

We can all celebrate 10 years of waiting soon. Looking forward to that day!

Really looking forward to play DNF against all people who used to be on Kali on Cases Ladder. Juhanator, 2cool, Tundra, FuriousGod, Sadistic, JeRMs, Socialkaos, Asskicker and all the others... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Micki!]

How about showing some funny meqon pictures..!? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Micki!]

Did you guys knew that the structures are MUCH more stabil when you're in slow motion (F8)??? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[dudetheman19]

How does it work when you have already designed a charactor.... can you just implement ragdoll physics on the charactor easily? Though George said it would only take a month to redo it in the whole game.... hmmm.... either they are not that far yet or else it's really easy

[George Broussard]

dudetheman19 said:
How does it work when you have already designed a charactor.... can you just implement ragdoll physics on the charactor easily? Though George said it would only take a month to redo it in the whole game.... hmmm.... either they are not that far yet or else it's really easy


Setting up ragdoll is easy. Just import the skeleton into the ragdoll tool and setup some constraints. It's more work than it sounds, but it isn't a significant issue at all.

[dudetheman19]

Hey George
Thanks for clearifying that :-) Was getting all nervous that it was big issue http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif Keep up the good work, we need a really good fun game that doesnt take it self too seriously soon http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif And Duke is going to be one of a kind!

[C. M. Dratz]

G. Broussard:
What about having an atmosphere that would allow for such things as siphoning? Duke could walk down a staircase and the door behind him that opened out would close from the wind generated by his downward motion. . . . Or distanced displacement. Duke could leave a door almost closed yet unlatched that opens into a neigboring room and anyone opening another door into the neighboring room would atmospherically force Duke's door closed. I feel that making this active atmosphere possible would be a nice new touch.
Respectfully:
C. M. Dratz

[BabyFace]

C. M. Dratz said:
Respectfully:
C. M. Dratz



Now, this man definitely knows the Netiquette... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[dudetheman19]

Since the watereffect post was closed, maybe we could descuss it here??

1. Will Meqon be the best choice for making water? and why?

2. For which things do you think Meqon will be used for in the game? Just ragdoll or everything?

3. How to implement Meqon water part in the game?

4. Wouldnt another water engin be better (thinking of farcrys)?

[Suteki]

Duke proved himself to be pretty good at making water himself in Duke 3D. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

The thing that impresses me most with this Meqon stuff is it appears to gear itself to the processor speed. The faster the machine, the more accurate the physics appear to be.

Another argument for everyone to get themselves Athlon64 machines. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[DudeMiester]

It uses an interative solver, so the more interations you can get in the better the simulation. However, this also makes good game state syncronization with MP servers all the more important.

[Jezza]

dudetheman19 said:

4. Wouldnt another water engin be better (thinking of farcrys)?



I doubt 3DR could really explain lisencing three engines for use in a single game. then have the Unreal Engine lisenced, Meqon physics (which can handle water anyway) why would they wanna pay someone else for their engine for water, especially since DNF is set in Las Vegas, a big sandy desert...

[NetNessie]

Everyone rise your hand if you dont give a damn if the water isnt 100% realistic!

[dudetheman19]

As long as it does stuff ;-) And Water always makes for a great gameplay, especially in Dukematch.... hide in the water http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[NetNessie]

dudetheman19 said:
As long as it does stuff ;-) And Water always makes for a great gameplay, especially in Dukematch.... hide in the water http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



I agree totally, water has some great applications, but they should spend all of thier time getting the water simulated naturally.

Sometimes a good simulation is better than the real thing.

[hell-angel]

NetNessie said:
Everyone rise your hand if you dont give a damn if the water isnt 100% realistic!



*raises hand*

[Kalki]

dudetheman19 said:
As long as it does stuff ;-) And Water always makes for a great gameplay



::Freeze-Ray::

[NetNessie]

Kalki said:

dudetheman19 said:
As long as it does stuff ;-) And Water always makes for a great gameplay



::Freeze-Ray::



Would have never thought of that one. Wonder if its been posted in all of those interactivity threads?

[Kalki]

NetNessie said:

Kalki said:

dudetheman19 said:
As long as it does stuff ;-) And Water always makes for a great gameplay



::Freeze-Ray::



Would have never thought of that one. Wonder if its been posted in all of those interactivity threads?



It has been brought up before elsewhere but not in George's interactivity thread, certainly not the latest one. So be my guest, go post the fun ways you think the freeze ray should affect water. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Major Lag]

I dunno if this has been asked before but how much did Meqon physics cost roughly Just outter interest

[BabyFace]

Major Lag said:
I dunno if this has been asked before but how much did Meqon physics cost roughly Just outter interest



I guess 500 movies out of Joe's and Charlie's pr0n collection. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hhg.gif

[hell-angel]

BabyFace said:

Major Lag said:
I dunno if this has been asked before but how much did Meqon physics cost roughly Just outter interest



I guess 500 movies out of Joe's and Charlie's pr0n collection. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hhg.gif



ohh.. that will mean they have 10000 movies left, kind of a bargain than. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[NetNessie]

BabyFace said:

Major Lag said:
I dunno if this has been asked before but how much did Meqon physics cost roughly Just outter interest



I guess 500 movies out of Joe's and Charlie's pr0n collection. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hhg.gif



2% then

[Micki!]

I've been playing around with the physics engine for a while now, and i really think that there should be some adjustments...

For example in "liquid surfaces" the waves doesn't react on objects (unless they are very VERY weak waves)...

And when 'particles' "Explode" (Explode would mean that you hit the particles hard with something >box<) then the "piece's" of the particles should stop spreading when hitting an object...

Also the "clothing" thingy isn't clothy enough, it should work as a net so that objects could get trapped in it... instead of flying right through it when it's flying through too hard...

Sorry for my poor english, i'm not used to make long sentences..!

[Spooger]

I agree with Micki here. While I'm (mostly) impressed with the physics, these things should probably be adressed. I'm not a realism whore by any means, but when a game (like Half-Life 2 for example) places so much effort and importance on the physics, I put just as much effort into paying attention to what I see.

Meqon looks good, and I think it will do wonders for DNF, but there are definately problems. As long as those problems don't find their way into DNF, I'm happy. I'm sure there are problems with Havoks, but they aren't really apparant in HL2. That's the goal.

edit: Thanks for the welcome Micki http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I like it here

[Micki!]

Hey... You are that new Dude... Welcome..! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Spooger]

I know this is going to come off as a very "n00bish" question, but we still don't know what graphics engine DNF is running on correct? I mean, now we know they're using meqon for their physics, but it hasn't been confirmed as to wether 3drealms will be using their own in-house engine, the Doom legacy engine or Valve's source technology correct?

Last I heard they were working with the Unreal technology (*not* the Unreal 3.0 tech, but earlier technology).

[NetNessie]

Unreal technology, but highly modified.

[Gryph]

Spooger said:
I know this is going to come off as a very "n00bish" question, but we still don't know what graphics engine DNF is running on correct? I mean, now we know they're using meqon for their physics, but it hasn't been confirmed as to wether 3drealms will be using their own in-house engine, the Doom legacy engine or Valve's source technology correct?

Last I heard they were working with the Unreal technology (*not* the Unreal 3.0 tech, but earlier technology).



They are using Unreal Tech which I'm sure includes the latest updates. But they are definitely using their own rendering engine which uses shaders and such hardcore.

[Spooger]

I'm sorry for the confusion, but do you mean the Unreal tech we see from say, Unreal Tournament 2004? Or the Unreal 3.0 engine?

[Killd a ton]

I think they started around UT and udated to just befor UT2003 but i definatly know that thy aren't using U3 they have made a new rendere tho so it only net and script, also they are using a nother pysic system as you probably already know.

[DudeMiester]

It's their own engine that uses the Unreal framework for some basic functions. Everything else is custom. You can't call it the unreal engine, because it just isn't the unreal engine anymore.

[Spooger]

That makes a lot more sense to me. You see, if a game like DNF was resting on the foundation of a finished UT2k3-2k4 base, then quite frankly, it would *not* be the technical achievement we should expect with a game thats been in development for so long.

The original Half-Life was built on the framework of the original Quake engine. Does it look like that game? No, of course not - but it did provide a very, very reliable base to work off of. I suppose thats sort of like what 3drealms is doing with DNF - pretty much a whole new engine thats base is Unreal tech.

Thanks for all of the posts to help clear up the issue for me http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[NetNessie]

Spooger said:
That makes a lot more sense to me. You see, if a game like DNF was resting on the foundation of a finished UT2k3-2k4 base, then quite frankly, it would *not* be the technical achievement we should expect with a game thats been in development for so long.



Dont judge a game by its engine.
Since we havent seen anything in 4 years, its hard to make an assessment on the quality of the engine. What you should probably learn about DNF is to expect nothing, as we know nothing.

[Spooger]

Well, see, I was under the impression that (Yes, I know I'm out of the loop) DNF was running on the already finished engine of either UT2k3/4, or even the original UT. Of course, I've the right to say wether or not I think that those engines are good choices -and obviously I think it would be a bad choice if DNF came out looking like it was running on a 4 year old engine- but this really helped to clear things up for me.

We don't know much about DNF, that's for sure. I certainly don't know what to expect, but then, I also expect we wont be faced with an out-of-date engine by the time DNF does see the light (and that's what I thought, so I'm glad I learned otherwise)

edit: wow, thanks for the reply George http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif It's really great to see developers so active with the community these days.

[George Broussard]

Spooger said:We don't know much about DNF, that's for sure. I certainly don't know what to expect, but then, I also expect we wont be faced with an out-of-date engine by the time DNF does see the light (and that's what I thought, so I'm glad I learned otherwise)


That's a pretty safe assumption.

[BabyFace]

Please don't beat me, but I don't really see why you guys are all so consumed by this engine subject. I mean, in the end, I really don't give a damn if it's "Unreal 4000" tech with "Meqon physics engine" and "ACME ragdoll technology" etc. 3DR buys this and that from other companies, but then still puts a lot of own work into it to glue it together and to add to it, so after all it will probably become the "DNF Engine" (or whatever name they choose - there was a discussion about that...).

Just be good, 3DR, and I'll love it. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Guere]

BabyFace said:
Please don't beat me, but I don't really see why you guys are all so consumed by this engine subject. I mean, in the end, I really don't give a damn if it's "Unreal 4000" tech with "Meqon physics engine" and "ACME ragdoll technology" etc. 3DR buys this and that from other companies, but then still puts a lot of own work into it to glue it together and to add to it, so after all it will probably become the "DNF Engine" (or whatever name they choose - there was a discussion about that...).

Just be good, 3DR, and I'll love it. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



Couldn't agree more http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Personally I don't really care what kind of engine it will be built on, what percentage is still Unreal tech or how they have changed it all, all I want is to blow me away http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif And since they said the engine will not be outdated once the game comes out, I truly expect to get blown away by both the graphics and interactivity http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Micki!]

I wonder what 3DR has done with the Meqon physics engine...
Does anybody think it'll beat HL2's Havok physics..?!

BTW, what about discussing about how the physics could fit into the game... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Gryph]

The Havok physics engine is 2nd generation, Meqon is 3rd generation. I assume that Meqon is better.

[alessnet]

I agree

[Micki!]

GryphonKlaw said:
The Havok physics engine is 2nd generation, Meqon is 3rd generation. I assume that Meqon is better.



Well, i hope so, it would be quite disappointing if there wasn't anything new in the physics for a Next generation game... Right..?! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif

[dudetheman19]

Micki! said:

GryphonKlaw said:
The Havok physics engine is 2nd generation, Meqon is 3rd generation. I assume that Meqon is better.



Well, i hope so, it would be quite disappointing if there wasn't anything new in the physics for a Next generation game... Right..?! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif



Will DNF even be next generation? I doubt we'll se a next generation game for a long long time! directx = next generation?

[lonestar]

pls delete

[lonestar]

dudetheman19 said:

Micki! said:

GryphonKlaw said:
The Havok physics engine is 2nd generation, Meqon is 3rd generation. I assume that Meqon is better.



Well, i hope so, it would be quite disappointing if there wasn't anything new in the physics for a Next generation game... Right..?! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif



Will DNF even be next generation?




no.

[Kristian Joensen]

Yes.

[Wamplet]

How do you pronounce "meqon?"

[Neptune]

I'm taking the risk of sounding like an idiot here but: Yes and no. While not really a next generation game, it'll feel like one when you play it.

Wow. That made no sense, nevermind.
http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doh.gif

on to something else, I wonder how the physics will be displayed. Maybe light gravity (ala Painkiller) or too hard (ala Doom 3) ooor maybe realistic (ala HL2).

[jimbob]

Wamplet said:
How do you pronounce "meqon?"

i just say mekon http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Kristian Joensen]

Neptune said:
I'm taking the risk of sounding like an idiot here but: Yes and no. While not really a next generation game, it'll feel like one when you play it.



You say it is not goona be a next generation game based own what ?

I see no rason to believe otherwise.

[Nacho]

Everytime a game comes out that has a known name (quake, doom, half life, final fantasy) It will always be said that it is revolutionary and a fantastic game when this is not always true.

It's like when celebrities commit a crime they get off with a slap on the wrist.

[DudeMiester]

DNF will truely be next-gen, and if you read the Doom3 and HL2 forums you know how picky I am. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[hell-angel]

DudeMiester said:
DNF will truely be next-gen, and if you read the Doom3 and HL2 forums you know how picky I am. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif



I sure hope so, Luckily I have faith in 3DR and am not worried about this. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[NetNessie]

If the game was released like it appeared on the 2001 movie, Id still get it.

I never buy a game because of its engine, but its content.

[hell-angel]

NetNessie said:
If the game was released like it appeared on the 2001 movie, Id still get it.

I never buy a game because of its engine, but its content.



I would buy it, just because 3DR made it. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Rider]

hell-angel said:

NetNessie said:
If the game was released like it appeared on the 2001 movie, Id still get it.

I never buy a game because of its engine, but its content.



I would buy it, just because 3DR made it. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



I would buy it just because it's Duke.

[hell-angel]

Rider said:

hell-angel said:

NetNessie said:
If the game was released like it appeared on the 2001 movie, Id still get it.

I never buy a game because of its engine, but its content.



I would buy it, just because 3DR made it. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



I would buy it just because it's Duke.



yeah, that too. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[dudetheman19]

Any games out now that is using Meqon? Is Meqon the most advances physics engine out there now?

[Micki!]

dudetheman19 said:
Any games out now that is using Meqon? Is Meqon the most advances physics engine out there now?



If i remember right, you can see which games that are using meqon on their homepage...

Meqon's homepage... (http://meqon.com)

[Doppelgofer]

only thing i worry about is lack of gibs...i've not seen them hardly at all because of physics and its annoying. i want to see BLOOD AND SHIT EVERYWHERE. i hope they haven't made it so you can't take peoples heads off and stuff aswell now because of this implementation....i can't see why it would....

would it?

[FireFly]

"Doing it to the level of SOF 2 is a lot of work and the return simply isn't that great. But popping head with head shots, or shotguns, or full gibbage due to explosives is a must. It's just that taking things apart piece by piece really isn't necessary and really is a ton of work."

http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=9084190

[Orochi Avlis]

I'm assuming no SOF 2 style dismemberment.

Also I'm assuming that we won't be able to shoot off individual fingers.

[Micki!]

Orochi Avlis said:
Also I'm assuming that we won't be able to shoot off individual fingers.



unfortunately http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

But what the heck!!!
As long as there is ANY gibs in there (And hopefully better ones than Doom 3) it's going too be just like i want it... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Beelze]

Orochi Avlis said:
Also I'm assuming that we won't be able to shoot off individual fingers.


George did say that once, didn't he? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Micki!]

Beelze said:

Orochi Avlis said:
Also I'm assuming that we won't be able to shoot off individual fingers.


George did say that once, didn't he? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif



He said that in the official DNF FAQ on planetduke.com http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif

[hell-angel]

Beelze said:

Orochi Avlis said:
Also I'm assuming that we won't be able to shoot off individual fingers.


George did say that once, didn't he? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif



He only said that the tech would be capable of handling it, he never said it would be implemented. (unfortunately http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif )

and happy birthday micki! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Micki!]

Thanks!!! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Mr.Sociopath]

Micki! said:

dudetheman19 said:
Any games out now that is using Meqon? Is Meqon the most advances physics engine out there now?



If i remember right, you can see which games that are using meqon on their homepage...

Meqon's homepage... (http://meqon.com)



I tried the game Shade which use meqon engine

the game is kind of average, and physic is almost inexistant... you can't move anything in your path by walking on it .. but you can destroy barrels.. and the barrels planks fall with gravity and stuff.. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
and funniest part is that ragdolls are buggy.. they keep shaking on the floor several seconds(not like nerves shaking..just bad shaking)..and with some anoying sounds because parts of the body hit the ground..
but i,m positive that duke nukem forever won't be that bad.. shade isn't even a first person shooter, it's a cheap and not very nicely done action/adventure game

you can probably compare the situation with half life 2 and vampire bloodlines which use both the same engine.. but that in vampire almost nothing in the levels uses the great physic there is in half life 2..(it's probably only for commercial reason that vampire uses half life's engine)(note, I still like vampire even if it deceived me)

I guess that means totally nothing...it only depends what devs do with the engine..
if not.. they made a very crapy choice

[hell-angel]

Mr.Sociopath said:
I guess that means totally nothing...it only depends what devs do with the engine..
if not.. they made a very crapy choice



That's the point, no matter how good the engine is (graphics, physics or otherwise)... If the devs cann't handle it (or don't want to) than the result will still suck.

[KaiserSoze]

Half Life 2's physics.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=7322

Meqon is showing off version 2.0 of their physics engine and it apparently is blowing away everyone who's witnessing it behind closed doors at the GDC.

From what was described in the article, it already sounds light years ahead of what HL2's physics engine was capable of doing.

Individual tiles being blown off walls, clothing that acts realistically to multiple objects hitting it, etc.

I'm sure the 3dr team has put it to good use.


-Rob

[Tip]

I'm interested to know if 3dr is using the 2.0 version or not.
Sounds like a nice engine.

[clayasaurus]

Please, nobody tell 3DR about the Physics Processing Unit (http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050308/sftu104_1.html). Of couse, the way DNF is going. . . http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[Spyd]

Tip said:
I'm interested to know if 3dr is using the 2.0 version or not.
Sounds like a nice engine.


For what Meqon said, 3DR is using version 1 for DNF, but even using the current generation of his physics engine, it will be clearly superior to the HL2 physics.
Version 2 is designed for next-gen consoles with multiple processors (PS3,XBox2); but perhaps a PC with physics hardware is a target, too.
[Slightly offtopic rant]Speaking of this, I hope someone creates a standard interface (I even don't mind if is Microsoft "DirectPhysics") so when you buy one of these cards you don't get stuck with one physics engine.[/Slightly offtopic rant]

[3D Master]

Tip said:
I'm interested to know if 3dr is using the 2.0 version or not.
Sounds like a nice engine.



Well, the demo everyone was so impressed about is still version 1. Nobody's seen version 2 yet, so....

[Piece of Cake]

Sure they will get the Updates from Meqon, it's quite normal to update some software after you bought it.

[Mr. Pink]

A bit of food for thought:

"... Currently, rather than a direct hardware API, the features of the PPU will be accessed via the NovodeX SDK. This physics engine was bought by AGEIA and built to use either software physics simulation or the PhysX hardware. This gives developers some flexibility to develop software that works with or without the hardware.

AGEIA would like to have hardware support from other SDKs, but currently only their in house engine adds hardware support. ..."

More at: Anandtech article (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2376&p=3)

I for one would be willing to wait for DNF to get hardware-accelerated physics. Anyone from Megon here & might you be considering interfacing with Ageia?

[Dunedain]

Would this Physics Processing Unit hardware be built into the motherboard or the video card?

[Mr. Pink]

No info yet as far as I can tell. It does use dedicated GDDR3, so perhaps it might be in the form of a PCI/PCI-E card.

Yet another #()*%*# thing to overclock.

http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tinyted.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[DudeMiester]

They want to have a PCI addin, PCIe addin, and integrated on the mobo. One thing I wonder, is if you get a mobo with it integrated, then buy an addin because it's more powerful, will the drivers split the load between the two somehow? Cause if it did, that would be very awesome.

[pirateguy]

I tried the Jeep demo (1.4) and I was not impressed. It was just TOO SLOW!! (on my Athlon XP 2500)


I also tried other demos (box stacks, rolling ball, cloth), those ran quite well (but texture-less).

To be honest I don't think gamers will notice the difference between Meqon and Havoc engine.

[Gryph]

Well most players won't know what engine it's using. The capabilities of the engine are different. Meqon can just do so much more and much faster too.

[pirateguy]

GryphonKlaw said:
Well most players won't know what engine it's using. The capabilities of the engine are different. Meqon can just do so much more and much faster too.



That remains to be seen. Show me a good game using Meqon engine then I will be convinced.

[3D Master]

pirateguy said:
I tried the Jeep demo (1.4) and I was not impressed. It was just TOO SLOW!! (on my Athlon XP 2500)




I ran it on my Athlon XP 2200+, 512 MB RAM, and ran fine???

[Micki!]

pirateguy said:

GryphonKlaw said:
Well most players won't know what engine it's using. The capabilities of the engine are different. Meqon can just do so much more and much faster too.



That remains to be seen. Show me a good game using Meqon engine then I will be convinced.



That game is DNF... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif
Because there are no other games out there which are using the Meqon physics...

And if there are any other games out there which uses th meqon physics, they're not using the current version... (And there is a BIIIG difference between the old, and the current version...)

[C. M. Dratz]

Readers:
Snow that drifts, slips, and is melted by high temperature objects like shell casings. Rain that puddles and muddies dirt leaving tracks. Wind that affects movement. Air that displaces objects like doors. One door opens, another closes because of the pressure differential. The same for water.
Sincerely:
C. M. Dratz

[Gryph]

I don't this generation of Meqon (or any other physics SDK) is THAT advanced. But I can't wait till games feature stuff like that.

[baff]

NetNessie said:
Sometimes a good simulation is better than the real thing.



inflatable sheep moment

[NetNessie]

baff said:

NetNessie said:
Sometimes a good simulation is better than the real thing.



inflatable sheep moment



http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif, I dont even remember wrtiting that.

[hell-angel]

NetNessie said:

baff said:

NetNessie said:
Sometimes a good simulation is better than the real thing.



inflatable sheep moment



http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif, I dont even remember wrtiting that.



It only shows what baff things about. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[lamuh]

C. M. Dratz said:
Readers:
Snow that drifts, slips, and is melted by high temperature objects like shell casings. Rain that puddles and muddies dirt leaving tracks. Wind that affects movement. Air that displaces objects like doors. One door opens, another closes because of the pressure differential. The same for water.
Sincerely:
C. M. Dratz



Whoa, where did you hear this from? This sounds like Duke 5 stuff and xbox720 capabilities (around 2009).

[Theonewayman]

Alan wake will have a dynamic wind that move trees and make riples on water and blow away leves and dust, news papers, etc. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

So we will see some of this things on the future. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[baff]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/chris.bayfield/sheep2.JPG

I smoke too much to blow them up.

[Mr.Sociopath]

woah http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[Theonewayman]

Don´t you believe me, go ask in the AW forums http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif.



Ho and sorry for the oftopic post.

[GambitMR]

don't know if anyone of you heard of it but as I'm a tech-enthusiast I'd like to talk about this.

I read about ageia/novodex ..and I'm pretty excited about that stuff [ if you don't know what that's about -> ageia.com ]. Could this provide the next R-/Evolution for pc-gaming ( it's a bit too late for next-gen console gaming ) ?

I chose this thread because I want DNF to be the best game of it's time...
and I don't think changing phys.engines is an option at this point .. could one add Physx support to meqon ?
I'd really like to see ageia revolutionize the gaming-world .. and maybe DNF as the first game utilizing their technology ?

what does 3dr think of it ? wouldn´t a PPU really be an addition you would want for a game with a huge amount of interactivity such as DNF ?

As we've seen with Painkiller changing phys-engines is a job that can be done ( I'm basing this on stuff I've heard .. haven't tested it yet ). So is meqon the right choice ( yes I admit it is quite late for that :P ) ... or is there any info out about supporting other phys-engines OR getting the phys-engines to work with the PPU ? This might be a tough question seeing as we still have to see both PhysX and Novodex in reality but please feel free to comment.

and forgive the lack of a "red-line" in my reply ..but I'm le tired http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

dang .. just found another thread about stuff like that .. oh well seems the search function doesn't work as well as it should ( or maybe I used the wrong keywords http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ) .. anyways .. Joe kill this reply if you want http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Mr.DJ]

I think, 3DRealms would love to have DNF be one of the first games, with hardware accelerated physics.

However, since it's a feature that will cost aditional time and money to implement. I would't count on them implementing it, if I where you.

I also believe I've read George saying they wouldn't do it, unless most of their costumers already had the required hardware installed in their PC's. Otherwise it's just extra costs, that doesn't add up in sales.
At least 3DRealms has choosen to use the best available "software" solution.

Who knows...maybe 3DRealms are able to sqeeze so much juice out of "Meqon", that when we finally play DNF, we will be suspecting the game to somehow secretly having installed a physics card in our PC's http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Dunedain]

I've read that the physics cards are ready, they are just waiting for the games that will support
them to be closer to release before the cards start to be sold.

[Tang Lung]

I beleive George has said that PPU cards arne't mainstream enough yet for DNF, and also that they would serve no point other than little added effects at this stage. It's when they start using pysics for gameplay that people will start getting in to it I think.

[hell-angel]

Tang Lung said:
I beleive George has said that PPU cards arne't mainstream enough yet for DNF, and also that they would serve no point other than little added effects at this stage. It's when they start using pysics for gameplay that people will start getting in to it I think.



I agree, and that will take some time, but the potential is high I think. So it the fun factor. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[jagzzz]

Hey George,

How is the Meqon Physics stuff treating you guys? How's the integration come along?

[Micki!]

If this message is directed to George, why didn't you just send him a PM..? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif
Unless of course, you're doing it here to share his (possible) answer with us all... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/love.gif

[Guere]

Micki! said:
If this message is directed to George, why didn't you just send him a PM..? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif




If everyone send him PM's and got answers..there'd just be a topic called: "OMG I PM'ed teh George and this is what he said..."

Indeed, better to share then to copy http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[mysteryperfecta]

Micki! said:
If this message is directed to George, why didn't you just send him a PM..? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif



I PM'd George about the question, and he said that switching to Meqon was a big mistake; the engine is buggy, it doesn't perform as promised, and now that Ageia has purchased Meqon, the tech support has gone downhill.

Take my word for it. No need for GB to make a public statement on the matter. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Tim. Just Tim.]

mysteryperfecta said:

Micki! said:
If this message is directed to George, why didn't you just send him a PM..? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif



I PM'd George about the question, and he said that switching to Meqon was a big mistake; the engine is buggy, it doesn't perform as promised, and now that Ageia has purchased Meqon, the tech support has gone downhill.

Take my word for it. No need for GB to make a public statement on the matter. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif




is this for real?
I thought meqon was the shit.

[Montykoro!]

OK.......then...a switch of physics engine....?

or "fine-tuning" megon? .....mmmm so sad...

[Halcyon]

Tim. Just Tim. said:
is this for real?
I thought meqon was the shit.

He's just joking. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[crunchy superman]

mysteryperfecta said:

Micki! said:
If this message is directed to George, why didn't you just send him a PM..? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif



I PM'd George about the question, and he said that switching to Meqon was a big mistake; the engine is buggy, it doesn't perform as promised, and now that Ageia has purchased Meqon, the tech support has gone downhill.



Sad thing is, that statement will now likely end up on some gaming news site as "DNF inside information", as bs from this forum usually does. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Micki!]

crunchy superman said:

mysteryperfecta said:

Micki! said:
If this message is directed to George, why didn't you just send him a PM..? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://for