Who invented the clear water effect?

[Guest]

?

I've heard three people take claim to this, and I'm not sure what to believe.

And how does it work anyway? It's pretty awesome for a 2.5D game.

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"Now I Got Me Finger Stuck In Me Bum!" - Benny Hill

"The essence of life is violence, from which there is no refuge." - Ernest Hemingway

[Phoenix]

http://www.3drealms.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif This will be an interesting thread!!! http://www.3drealms.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif

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>>Hank<<

Time waits for no one...

[Ding Bat]

First off, it depends on which clear water effect your talking about.

There are 4 methodes i know of.

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[Guest]

Originally posted by Commander Khaine:
?

I've heard three people take claim to this, and I'm not sure what to believe.

And how does it work anyway? It's pretty awesome for a 2.5D game.



If you are talking about transparent water effect, then Bob A. yells a lot about it (since his 'Half-Life' DM map), so it must be him http://www.3drealms.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

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[This message has been edited by JustSomeGuy (edited 12-21-2000).]

[cyborg]

Originally posted by JustSomeGuy:
If you are talking about transparent water effect, then Bob A. yells a lot about it (since his 'Half-Life' DM map), so it must be him http://www.3drealms.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif


James Ferry made clear water several years before this in NWIII.

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[Guest]

Half-Life! I remember that one. It was an awesome level (design-wise), but it crashed every few seconds http://www.3drealms.com/ubb/images/icons/frown.gif.

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"Now I Got Me Finger Stuck In Me Bum!" - Benny Hill

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[Misel]

[deleted]

[This message has been edited by Misel (edited 12-22-2000).]

[Guest]

Originally posted by cyborg:
James Ferry made clear water several years before this in NWIII.


I also had the exact same map in New World TC (the very first one) and a previous monopoly map, released in December of 1996, first uploaded to the Duke3D/Doom Map section of "The City BBS". I also had Human2.zip and Daemon.zip up there aswell.

You do the maths. http://www.3drealms.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

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Irelands worst Air Disaster occured today when small two-seater Cessna 152 crashed into a cemetery early this morning in central Ireland. Irish search and rescue workers have recovered 826 bodies so far and expect that number to climb as digging continues into the evening.

[Dukefan]

Personally, I'd like to know how the effect in BobSP1 was done. I was pretty surprised, but then, I rarely download any maps or TC's.

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[Guest]

Originally posted by cyborg:
James Ferry made clear water several years before this in NWIII.



OK, I guess you know better.

Personally, I'd like to know how the effect in BobSP1 was done. I was pretty surprised, but then, I rarely download any maps or TC's.

The water is not really a water - it's a big transparent paralaxed floor sector with water sprites all over it. Because it is transparent, it's invisible. The underwater floor is, if I am not mistaken, another set of textures. When underwater, it's vice versa.

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[Guest]

Didn't Shadow Warrior do this with reflective floors?

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"Now I Got Me Finger Stuck In Me Bum!" - Benny Hill

"The essence of life is violence, from which there is no refuge." - Ernest Hemingway

[Guest]

Look here, the water effects you're talking about are two ENTIRELY different methods. *I* invented the one used in my maps. The one used so long ago in that TC is totally different, it uses redlined sectors with joined borders, it's buggy, but impressive. Mine on the other hand is much easier to create, as it doesn't need any external programs to make it perfectly bug free, unlike James' effect. Mine can be done in plain old BUILD, and you can see in AND out, unlike James' 1-way transparency. (it's opaque on top)

As you now know our effects are entirely different, I invented mine, he invented his. There was a thread about this ages ago, it was settled back then.

P.S. My effect uses "invisible floors", which are a trick of parallaxed sector borders. Quite simple once you understand how BUILD deals with parallaxing.

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o0@ If you BUILD it, they will come. @0o

[TerminX]

With James' effect, you can see what's actually on the surface. With yours, you cannot.


-TX

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[Guest]

Originally posted by TerminX:
With James' effect, you can see what's actually on the surface. With yours, you cannot.
-TX

http://www.3drealms.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

[Gloryroader]

Hey, Bob! Glad you set it straight. I was about to myself until I read your post. But someone else was asking how to do it. Should you or I point that person towards your transparent water FAQ? I have it available for download from my website as you know (you sent it to me) as well as a few of your maps. BTW, if you have any recent maps that I don't have, how about sending them to me? I'd love to post them, you know. Everything is at The Gloryroad (http://gloryroad.freeyellow.com) now, Duke, SW, even GT3 now.

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[Usurper]

(Have you ever seen water that you can see out of but not into?

Actually, yes (sorta). If the water is dark and murky, and you're underwater, and it's bright outside, you can make out shapes on the surface, although you'll be much less likely to see an object at the same distance from on top of the water. Of course, this can't be accurately portrayed in build, but then, water doesn't behave correctly in build anyway. I suggest everyone who wants clear water just use Tan's eduke effect. Translucent both ways, and it doesn't use dummy sectors.

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Usurper
DN3D RTCM (http://dukertcm.totalconversions.com)
The slacker has awakened!

[Corv]

This is getting stupid.

Bob- you didn't care to set anything in stone before when I asked you twice. So stop crying. James Ferry made it clear to me ALONG time ago that the water(his effect) can be done clear both ways. I assume He didn't continue his effort at the time 'cause of the low Framerate on slower computers...(theres more to this but...)

AND you don't openly help BUILDERS so why do you care(thats not a question)

I have tried to contact you a few times to help you get this stuff down on paper but your one of those guys that think there sh*t don't stink(theres just no room for someone like that anymore, those or these users are useless to all of us)

Anyhow. James Ferry is the originial creator of the effect and you can not change that. He did this WAY back in '96. The only reason you didn't know about it is because James was hiden on the web(so to speak) or your just plain blind.

Just go away if your not going to help.

(oops didn't see you post there Usurper http://www.3drealms.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif

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[This message has been edited by Corv (edited 01-23-2001).]

[Guest]

Have you not been paying attention? Our effects are different. You obviously dont understand how my effect is different from his. Stop being such a fetid pool of hobo urine.

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o0@ If you BUILD it, they will come. @0o

[Guest]

The FAQ you have is old and does not detail how to make the floor of the underwater sector (seem to be) visible from above water. It's fairly simple if you know what you're doing with the normal effect but I'd really rather update the FAQ at some point.

By the way Veldrik, your effect does not allow the player to see into the water. Also, the water HAS to be at the same level as the sourrounding ground, and in some instances against a wall. My effect does not have these restrictions and seems much more like real clear water. (Have you ever seen water that you can see out of but not into? No! But in real life, while you can see into and out of water, things swimming below the surface are hard to see. Hence my effect.)

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o0@ If you BUILD it, they will come. @0o

[Guest]

That depends bob on if you are talking about "who invented your effect" (which btw you can't see out of at all, try it in multiplayer) or "who invented clear water first" which most people are talking about.
If it was "who invented your effect" it would be released by you, but it is the basis of my effect. If you look carefully, you will notice the parralaxed surface. If you can find a copy of monopoly.map around (the one that I made) you will see the two sided water I used in it. This is the map that I made before the newworld map by around a week. Noticed that it looked rather spiffy, so I made the first build touch (dos 80286 with vess 1280x1024x8bit only), then used it to make the pool of water in newworld.map. detailed the map more, made the ladders, made the floating elevators, and then released it as the first new world TC in 96 on the local connection for the international BBS lot. BBSs in Australia are now dead. The listing died in 1998 so no-one maintains them anymore. Alot became either sites or ISPs for the internet. One of which is AR which was originally a role playing BBS, then started up as an ISP (still a BBS) and some gothic site. BTW http://www.ar.net.au/ it is also mentioned on one of the Live CDs in a video on it at the end of the clip. A friend noticed it.

Well anyway moving on, got the net, uploaded it, and then after a little while, Corv contacted me (early 1997 I guess) and asked me for help with build touch and if I would ever make a windows version and that he liked the water stuff. I said no I wouldn't make a windows one, but did anyway. http://www.3drealms.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif I forgot why. Well anyway, I made a NW2 which had a new map. this map hand lots of explosions from oil silos, two destructable trucks (peice by peice like in nw3) and a pretty white building that had timed explosions if you could det' it. Made lots of pretty glass go flying. This was where I made that glass that takes more damage.

Released this (I don't have a copy, even though Corv and Usurper emailed me one back - I deleted my inbox - to tell you the truth, I formated five of the seven hard disks in the machine, I haven't bothered formating the other two yet) and then started on nw3 which had better weapons stuff. This took a while, probably a month or so, and I sent Corv and Usurper screenshots through out. got more stuff working, the site is here (http://www.dukeworld.com/nw3) or you can watch a little movie here (http://www.dukeworld.com/downloads/dl.html?nw3movie.exe+duke3d/tc/nw3+nw3)

Fixed up and updated nw3 a few times, now it is at 1.6 and had a dukeworld site opened up in early 1999. I didn't even visit dukeworld until corv and usurper convinced me to join aound 1997/1998 - ie the same time that they started getting pissy and closed down the forums there.

Weaponry did the variable running spead and weight and advanced weapon stuff.

Around here is where bob came in.

new world 4 finally got the super dooper advanced weapon stuff and the "enemy shooting the other enemy" stuff running.

Around this time Conan decide that he would use some of my con code for nw4, and the translucent water from all of the new world series and weaponry.

At the same time as I was fixing up the AI, James Tran first showed me the con based translucent water stuff.

Then around two months later, Mathew Saettler started eduke and we joined the team of beta testers.

[Guest]

By the way, I haven't seen Conan for months, has anyone else seen him?

[Corv]

Conan... Don't know myself.. Think I only talked with him once.

Anyhow I think the Silo mod you have on dukeworls ftp. Or I think I may still have it.

But anyhow again theres Eduke now(like Usurper said) and The New World IV BUILD Game.(which of course is James Ferry's, I havn't followed it as close as I should have. But from what I understand theres a group of followers that are heavly into it)

I think this Thread is done now.

[cyborg]

Originally posted by Veldrik:
By the way, I haven't seen Conan for months, has anyone else seen him?

You should visist the Warfare TC forums.


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[Guest]

The NWIII trailer won't download...

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"Now I Got Me Finger Stuck In Me Bum!" - Benny Hill

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[cyborg]

You'll probably have better luck if you try though www.fileplanet.com (http://www.fileplanet.com)
I wouldn't trust any of those Dukeworld download links to work correctly given how they seem to change the system not to work every now and then.

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[Guest]

Conan is right there. Dukeworld has alot of bad links on their downlaod pages.

The only chance of any of them working is really from Greece or Sweeden.
And use http when possible.

a direct link to the trailier

http://ftp.sunet.se/pub/games/PC/3drealms/duke3d/tc/nw3/nw3movie.exe
via http sunet in sweden

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I came, I saw, I stuck around...
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Irelands worst Air Disaster occured today when small two-seater Cessna 152 crashed into a cemetery early this morning in central Ireland. Irish search and rescue workers have recovered 826 bodies so far and expect that number to climb as digging continues into the evening.

[Manson]

Yep! Isn't it great?
I live in Denmark, so I don't have any problems.

[Guest]

I get a faster reply from it in Australia than I did from ftp.cdrom.com anyway. http://www.3drealms.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

Actually most swedish sites are fast for me.

[Gloryroader]

Originally posted by bobaverill:
The FAQ you have is old and does not detail how to make the floor of the underwater sector (seem to be) visible from above water. It's fairly simple if you know what you're doing with the normal effect but I'd really rather update the FAQ at some point.

So, Bob, when are you going to send me an updated transparent water FAQ then? C'mon, Bob, don't leave me hangin' here! http://www.3drealms.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

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[cyborg]

It's sprite floors. You simply place the sprite tile on the surface and lower it below the sector floor.

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[peter_m_green]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Usurper:
Actually, yes (sorta). If the water is dark and murky, and you're underwater, and it's bright outside, you can make out shapes on the surface, although you'll be much less likely to see an object at the same distance from on top of the water. Of course, this can't be accurately portrayed in build, but then, water doesn't behave correctly in build anyway. I suggest everyone who wants clear water just use Tan's eduke effect. Translucent both ways, and it doesn't use dummy sectors.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
tans efect desynchs multiplayers when anyone goes in the water sector i can fix the sync bug but it would still cause problems if on person was above the water in a sector and another was underwater in the same sector

[Manson]

Why not just fix bobs way?
It should be easy to fix with EDuke

[Manson]

BTW: Veldrik, couldn't you reupload the New World IV website?
When dukeworld crashed, it semes that they uploaded an older version of your site.
(old site)

[cyborg]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Manson:
Why not just fix bobs way?
It should be easy to fix with EDuke<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Erm, not really. It's easier to rewrite player phsyics for a purely sprite based approach then to try and create fake objects below and above water.

[MasterEvilAce]

Al Gore invented the clear water effect.

LOL: Just kidding.

[Manson]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cyborg:
Erm, not really. It's easier to rewrite player phsyics for a purely sprite based approach then to try and create fake objects below and above water.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats what I mean,,,

[Gloryroader]

So, how about someone pointing me in the direction of an FAQ for creating transparent water "the James Ferry way"? With all this debate in here about the two effects, I'd like to offer FAQs for both methods on my site. I already have Bob's FAQ (albeit an "old, outdated" version in Bob's words) and would like to post James'. That way anyone who does download FAQs from my site can make up their own mind which one they want to use in their own maps.