Why bother with Build?

[Deranged]

Just wondering why so many people still bother with build.

Is it because you can't afford something better?, or the fact that it runs ok on a 486?

I mean, lets face it, there are more superior engines that run faster on newer sytems(3D accelerated), look better, more flexible (true 3D) - easier to use (none of this teleporting water, overlapping sector, weird vertical aiming, quick-fix illusions) (eg the Quake engine has available source, tcp/ip, 3d-acceleration, easy to make mods (with quake c and other tools) Just look what Valve did with it, and Counterstrike is now the most played game and it is build on this (heavily edited) engine that we first saw the same year as duke3D. And there's the Unreal Engine... I love it.

It just seems such a waste to be putting so much effort into something that won't be appreciated much by the gaming community.

Sure I was addicted to build a few years ago too, but isn't it time to move on?

[Guest]

First off, I bet you smell like feet.

Secondly, BUILD is hella easy to use and it's feature packed. Scripted explosions, see thru glass, trains, and other shit you cant do in the Quake engine. It's easy to use, easy to implement your ideas, and simply charming over all.

------------------
Television is the retina of the mind's eye. Werd.

[Deranged]

All those things are easy to do in half-life
it would hardly make up for builds disadvantages anyway, would it?
hmm..

[Guest]

I like BUILD better, that's why. And you still smell like feet.

------------------
Television is the retina of the mind's eye. Werd.

[Phoenix]

Deranged, I don’t understand the question. If you no longer play with Build, why bother to tell and ask why some still do. I play with Build and UT and I need your rhetoric like a hole in the head.

------------------
>>Hank<<

Time waits for no one...

[This message has been edited by Phoenix (edited 02-11-2001).]

[Deranged]

I was just asking - and you did read the 2nd last paragraph - right?

No need for the insults.

[Phoenix]

Not sure if it was my post or Bob’s. No insult intended, I simply expressed how I felt.
Maybe a more intellectual answer would help. When I first learned programming I used Visual Basic. You had building blocks with certain behaviors all you did is drag and drop and put in a little code here and there, and you where done. Build is a little like VB, and coincidentally the first map making platform I learned.
It's a game, we play with the toys we like, it got nothing to do with logic, well not for me. I am also into Unreal, but only for the kids not for me. Not sure if this makes any sense, but as they say: Here is my two pennies ... http://www.3drealms.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

------------------
>>Hank<<

Time waits for no one...

[Theseus314]

Build is mostly dead. Move on to Unreal.

I still use Build, but it's the last engine I would ever recommend someone to use.

------------------
"...and this one time, at band camp, we stuck this really long Voodoo5 6000..."
"All hail Theseus! w00T! w00T!" - Draco
Classical PC Gaming (http://www.cpgaming.com)

[cyborg]

Originally posted by Deranged:
It just seems such a waste to be putting so much effort into something that won't be appreciated much by the gaming community.

Not everybody is making mods to be virtually sucked off by 13 year olds. Some people do it for their own pure enjoyment.
Hence none of your arguements hold there.

------------------
Duke Nukem Resources for Totalconversions and Modifications (http://dukertcm.totalconversions.com)
Mapster - The Build editor replacement (http://dukertcm.totalconversions.com/mapster/) - RTCM Build Game Store (http://dukertcm.totalconversions.com/store.html) - Community Reviews and Interviews (http://dukertcm.totalconversions.com/knowledge-base/reviews-interviews/) - Build Games List (http://dukertcm.totalconversions.com/knowledge-base/base-build-games.html) - Playing Online (http://dukertcm.totalconversions.com/knowledge-base/base-game-connection.html) - Sound Card Setup (http://dukertcm.totalconversions.com/knowledge-base/documents-online/setup-sound-duke3d.html) - Running in Windows (http://dukertcm.totalconversions.com/knowledge-base/documents-online/setup-windows-buildgames.html) - Advanced Configuration (http://dukertcm.totalconversions.com/knowledge-base/documents-online/setup-duke-cfg-controllers.html)

[Gloryroader]

Answer #1 as to why I still make maps in BUILD: Duke.

Until Duke Forever comes out, I'll continue to make Duke maps in BUILD. I have Unreal and UT: Game of the Year Edition (it has a couple of add-ons that are cool, I guess - but it also cost $10 less than UT)

Oh, yeah:

It just seems such a waste to be putting so much effort into something that won't be appreciated much by the gaming community.

George Broussard said in another post that last year Duke Nukem 3D made 3D Realms 7 figures in income. Sounds like this actually is something that will be appreciated much by the gaming community.

And yeah, I prefer the editing and engine capabilities of the Unreal and UT engines just like you do, but, like I said, no Duke on them yet.

------------------
Gloryroader - Webmaster, The Gloryroad (http://gloryroad.freeyellow.com)

[Guest]

http://www.3drealms.com/ubb/images/icons/tongue.gif Screw BUILD! http://www.3drealms.com/ubb/images/icons/tongue.gif

ROTTed is better! It's easier, and you can do stuff that you couldn't possibly do in BUILD, even with EDuke v*.*

------------------
"Now I Got Me Finger Stuck In Me Bum!" - Benny Hill

"The essence of life is violence, from which there is no refuge." - Ernest Hemingway

[Usurper]

you can do stuff that you couldn't possibly do in BUILD, even with EDuke v*.*

Like what?

------------------
Usurper
DN3D RTCM (http://dukertcm.totalconversions.com)
The slacker has awakened!

[Guest]

Originally posted by Usurper:
Like what?



Moving SLANTED areas over areas, true multiple stories, simulated curved sufaces, trains, circular tunnels, etc

------------------
"Now I Got Me Finger Stuck In Me Bum!" - Benny Hill

"The essence of life is violence, from which there is no refuge." - Ernest Hemingway

[Usurper]

>Moving SLANTED areas over areas

ROTT has sloping sprites? Neato.

>true multiple stories

With sprites, which Duke can do easy enough. Unless I missed something and ROTT actually has more than 1 sector....

>simulated curved sufaces

Cake. Split sectors. Slope 'em.

>trains

One of the staples of build.

>circular tunnels

See "simulated curved surfaces"

Well, that's one un-buildable thing at least.

------------------
Usurper
DN3D RTCM (http://dukertcm.totalconversions.com)
The slacker has awakened!

[Guest]

and it has more easter eggs than Duke3d. images/icons/tongue.gif

Whats the link to that "I'M FREE!" pic?

[Guest]

why bother you ask? It's fun to make levels with that engine, that's why we bother.

[Guest]

I personally think that Build is great for those who find pleasure in the process of creating, and not about finding the fastest and easiest way to get it done.I also think its bad thing to smell like feet. images/icons/wink.gif

[cyborg]

Erm, Build is the fastest and easiest way to get things done - no other engine has such ease of use in an editor because basically they can't.
Any engine which has BSP portions cannot have an editor which reflects the game in real time like Build - so that rules out the most popular engines Quake and Unreal - even though Unreal does use some portal technologies.
No one seems to be interested in making a purely portal driven engine like Build - despite the obvious advantages it brings (let's not even meantion Prey - it doesn't count).

[Carger2000]

Why bother? Because (in my opinion) Build is
the most easy, best and most fun 3D game
editor available..
After working ,like, 4 years with BUILD
for Duke3d and SW, I recently got a new PC
to 'Go worldcraft'. To give you a view of
the situation, I have touched WorldCraft
just a few times and started installing BUILD again after a few days...
BUILD = Heaven (For me that is)

[Guest]

Why Build?

I've played many of the latest 'high-tech' games UT, Q3A, Q1/2, Sin etc. I love UT. Still, in terms of fun _gameplay_ Build engine games like Blood and Shadow Warrior do it for me.

There are some levels in SW for example that would probably be impossible to create in Quake type games.

The levels of interactivity and fun in Build games is, I personally believe, yet to be rivalled in other games.

Tony

[Diaz]

Why bother with Build? Simply because you'll enjoy much more making a mod for it than for Quake1 - And hell, with a correct level design, you can make it look even better than Quake1 (not better than Half-Life though). Duke is the only game in which a person can make a full mod alone - it's just easy to use and enjoyable. Graphics are not all.

[Mblackwell]

smilies/mryuck.gif
When I first started with Build, I stumbled to learn the ropes. I ended up reading the official level editing book, blah blah blah. It ended up easy to use and create simple things. More complex things did take time, but not much.

Then I read about UnrealEd. I mostly bought Unreal it for UnrealEd in fact. I read everything I could about it, and as soon as I got it I could already go at it. So I after figuring out afew things you can't get from just reading, I began a project. I had a large outdoor area, and began building a waterfall stream and pool. You started at the top of the waterfall, with a stream behind you (the source of the fall). While constructing this I went back to Build and said, "How the hell did I ever do anything with this???"

Now the trouble starts. I kept getting this weird leek in the falls, and the more things I did to fix it, the more errors were caused. Eventually I had to start over. So I did it. 3 times. D****T IT WAS SO EASY TO DO IN BUILD. The fact that I had had many wierd errors in Build is there, but I've always been able to recover things. Never was I so outraged, it took so much time to do everything even up to the error point. The only advantage presented by these editors was the ability to have angled objects on the wall. Now, this can be emulated through the "sprite voxel" "effect", though it's hell to do. But I can live without. I just be creative and find ways around things. Seen the shots of my "hive" from Aliens TC? very detailed and curvey, etc... yet I did it with Build. Like I said, be creative. Of course, with Eduke you can start conning out some of the limitations. smilies/images/icons/grin.gif

[CDC Mainframe]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Just wondering why so many people still bother with build.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because it is a great hobby. And for some of us, it's an affordable introduction to game programming using existing tools. The interface is simple to use and understand, and you don't need an expensive computer or degree in programming to use it.

Level design can be fun and can teach you some valuable skills. Such as planning a level before you build it! I have been guilty of never planning a level before I build it, so I have never been able to publish a complete one yet! The first step in game design is planning, then working that plan.

I am looking forward to playing new single player levels, and finishing my own.

Build rocks!

[Guest]

I like BUILD, when U use it, you feel in the oldies, of course, I don't like the slow systems os 486,286.... But U miss a little, isn't it? You must not underestimate the old programs, persons, computer, whatever...
Do U like Ms-DOS, I love it, my computer never "locked" in DOS, but in Windows....
Understand?

[Lucky]

Why use BUILD?

Well it's hard making a TC for a game without using its engine :P

[Mblackwell]

Another big reason I use build is speed. It's damn fast on most machines, and if it's not fast it tends towards a consistant framerate. Even with a s**tload of effects and enemies onscreen. And with Eduke 2.1 you can basically hi-res everything and smooth out the weapons animations. I've seen levels that look as good as Half-Life or better, and with the new abilities presented in Eduke even better graphical looks can be achieved... yet it retains the speed.

Also, it's pretty damn easy to go in, add new art, build a map, and make a new actor. You can just go in there plunking away without much effort. It's really hard to get the same results QUICKLY with UnrealEd and World-Builder and the like.

[ 06-18-2001: Message edited by: Mblackwell ]

[Guest]

Er... maybe because we like the game itself, and Build is the only practical editor for it. smilies/images/icons/grin.gif

[Phoenix]

Actually Mapster (http://mapster-rtcm.totalconversions.com/) is more practical to use. smilies/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Bruce Hamilton]

I'd be a lot more impressed with Mapster if it weren't still in beta with no updates over the last five months. We'll probably never see a version 1.0 release.

[cyborg]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bruce Hamilton:
I'd be a lot more impressed with Mapster if it weren't still in beta with no updates over the last five months. We'll probably never see a version 1.0 release.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Technically it could never come out of beta stage. The idea that the naming convention given to it would sway your opinion of it is ludicrous. There will be no futher update until the next release of Eduke.

[Bruce Hamilton]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The idea that the naming convention given to it would sway your opinion of it is ludicrous.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I could care less what you call it, just finish it and get it out of beta stage. Mapster is currently more crash prone than build.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>There will be no futher update until the next release of Eduke.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Eduke uses a modified version of makemap from Redneck Rampage.

[Mblackwell]

but eduke also increases and changes alot in duke itself. So it's important the the editor have the ability to reflect those new features. Mapster will soon become the standard for building maps for Eduke. smilies/mryuck.gif

[cyborg]

Ye ghads stop arguing - I know this situation far better than you do.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I could care less what you call it, just finish it and get it out of beta stage. Mapster is currently more crash prone than build.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It tends to use more memory and has different base code to Build but on the whole I find that once I get it going it doesn't crash.
Also the concept that it won't ever be finished and is simply a user product that people are lucky to have it exist is obviously lost on you.
There is no definitive end product that is being aimed for.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Eduke uses a modified version of makemap from Redneck Rampage.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Christ. I know this. And so does TX - because he supplied it. Matteus wanted an updated version of the build editor and mapster didn't exist at the time.

Now stop your whining.

[Diaz]

I use Mapster 0.27B and it never crashed my computer more times than Build did.

[Bruce Hamilton]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Also the concept that it won't ever be finished and is simply a user product that people are lucky to have it exist is obviously lost on you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Most software available won't ever be "finished", that's why they release new versions. The difference is they generally release the beta version to their testers, not the general public. As for being lucky to have it, woohoo! I see no benefit in being one of your beta testers.

[cyborg]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>As for being lucky to have it, woohoo! I see no benefit in being one of your beta testers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stop being so dense. It's a convention. You are reading far too much into it still.

Ugh. Idiot.

[NutWrench]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The idea that the naming convention given to it would sway your opinion of it is ludicrous.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? Isn't it common practice to give sequentially higher numbers to a program each time a new version is released?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>There is no definitive end product that is being aimed for.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Way to promote your product! Come on, you can do better than that!
Try calling it "Flubber" or something. It worked for the Nutty Professor™. smilies/images/icons/grin.gif

[cyborg]

Ugh. Loaf boy enters.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Why? Isn't it common practice to give sequentially higher numbers to a program each time a new version is released?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow! It is so tooooo!!!!

What has that got to do with basing an opinion on software because of its version suffix? I suppose you believe Netscape's got better faster because it's jumped from v4 to v6 eh?
It's so simple. It's always going to be beta software becuase it'll be finished when it stops being updated. TX doesn't have any goal that says: "Mapster's going to be this at v1.0!"
So does the version number matter?

NO - the software matters.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NutWrench:
Way to promote your product! Come on, you can do better than that!
Try calling it "Flubber" or something. It worked for the Nutty Professor™. smilies/images/icons/grin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not my product moron. Go eat some bread.

[NutWrench]

You certainly are full of rage and despair today, Cyborg.

Exactly why ARE you here anyway? And I don't just mean here on this UBB, I mean why are you here on this planet? Is what you do with your life what your parents had in mind when they brought you into the world, and raised you?

You're not even a proper loony - you're just another pathetic maladjusted nerd who resents the better looking, smarter, more muscular, better hung alpha males of your own species, and the women who mate with them. This isn't the place to whine about how jealous you are. It's also not the place to beg for people to consider you a genius. Yer not a damn genius, you're a horrific social and psycho-emotive stall-out case with delusions of adequacy. You wasted all the time you should have spent learning to be a real person on your one narrow area, and because you've cloistered yourself among incompetent blithering morons, you're able to avoid the glaring truth about yourself.

Got news for ya, little fish... several people here are renowned in MULTIPLE fields of arts and sciences. Y'know, REAL geniuses. Others know EVERYTHING there is to know about their particular area of expertise. Not that any of that really matters... what matters is they're here to actually HELP people. You, on the other hand are not, and your pathetic attempts to make yourself feel important and/or interesting at their expense aren't even fooling YOU.

--Nut
P.S. Cyborg, if you are reading this as we both know you are powerless to resist doing, these are your instructions: You are order to JUMP. Only harder and higher next time. Meat Puppet.

[Mblackwell]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Most software available won't ever be "finished", that's why they release new versions. The difference is they generally release the beta version to their testers, not the general public. As for being lucky to have it, woohoo! I see no benefit in being one of your beta testers. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry, but most software DID come out finished before Unreal and the like came out. Epic did it, so now it's just become an industry norm (and a bad one at that). The fact is, Mapster isn't just a "software" it is a "software tool" which are ALWAYS updated. It's not really beta, but if it'll never be finished because you'll always be working on it, what should you call it? By saying it's beta people will assume that the product will change a bit in the near future. Well, most people... obviously not you. And damn, you WILL feel lucky to have Mapster, ESPECIALLY when Eduke 2.2 comes out...... fools smilies/images/icons/mad.gif

And NutWrench, why bother insulting the LOOKS of someone you've NEVER SEEN???? You just wasted 1/4 of a page on that crap.

[Mblackwell]

oh, and knowing all the godd**n math in the world won't help you put trig in Duke unless you know how to PROGRAM it in there. You could be the world's best artist, but know squat about DukeC.

[ 06-20-2001: Message edited by: Mblackwell ]

[Phoenix]

Mapster (http://mapster-rtcm.totalconversions.com/) is an excellent program.
As for Beta Testing (I ain’t no tester), I got lucky and got me the latest "beta" version. It rocks. Thanks TerminX.

Also as the everlasting newbie around here I can afford to ask dumb questions; Nutwrench what programs did you make for the Duke community? And where can they be downloaded? smilies/images/icons/shocked.gif Can't find noddin...

[Jim]

I tried this Mapster program some time ago. It seemed to work but I had horrible colors in 2D mode (red and blue if I remember: extremely tiring!). I tried a new version lately and this time I had tons of 'Granular limit' messages on screen, while Build works like a charm... Is it due to a lame test version?

[Mblackwell]

It's probably not installed correctly... either way, try the newest version. Also, the color can be changed through mapter's "lookup.dat" file I believe....

[cyborg]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NutWrench:
You certainly are full of rage and despair today, Cyborg.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And evidentally from the rest of the post you are lacking in coherent thought.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Exactly why ARE you here anyway? And I don't just mean here on this UBB, I mean why are you here on this planet? Is what you do with your life what your parents had in mind when they brought you into the world, and raised you?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you mean annoying you then yes, yes, yes. Last time you posted here you had the gall to call me a troll for being right - and now you're being a troll because you know I'm right and don't have anything to actually say in reply.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
You're not even a proper loony - you're just another pathetic maladjusted nerd who resents the better looking, smarter, more muscular, better hung alpha males of your own species, and the women who mate with them. This isn't the place to whine about how jealous you are. It's also not the place to beg for people to consider you a genius. Yer not a damn genius, you're a horrific social and psycho-emotive stall-out case with delusions of adequacy. You wasted all the time you should have spent learning to be a real person on your one narrow area, and because you've cloistered yourself among incompetent blithering morons, you're able to avoid the glaring truth about yourself.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A bit rich coming from you Nutwrench. If I'm a loony then who's posting this crap?

It's quite simple - you're wrong.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Got news for ya, little fish... several people here are renowned in MULTIPLE fields of arts and sciences. Y'know, REAL geniuses. Others know EVERYTHING there is to know about their particular area of expertise./<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You aren't one of them Nutwrench so don't lecture me. It's not my problem if you can't accept I do know my sciences.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Not that any of that really matters... what matters is they're here to actually HELP people. You, on the other hand are not, and your pathetic attempts to make yourself feel important and/or interesting at their expense aren't even fooling YOU.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I simply have the ability to recognise some people are truely dense. I've helped plenty of people who are worthwhile helping - I can be as nice or as nasty to whomever I choose and I don't give a rat's ass if that annoys you.
You do realise the irony here that if I am here as you say to simply make myself feel important than your continuing replies are only affirming this?
If you actually stuck to any of your convictions you wouldn't make posts like this. Hypocrite.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
--Nut
P.S. Cyborg, if you are reading this as we both know you are powerless to resist doing, these are your instructions: You are order to JUMP. Only harder and higher next time. Meat Puppet.[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And I fully expect another very pathetic moral post from you.
The simply facts remain that I'm right you're wrong. I was right in the Build engine post when you described it as a loaf and laughed at it being portal based - despite this being the reality. I'm right now about the status of Mapster and there's really no point arguing about it because it's not a subjective topic.

Well at least MBlackwell understands the simple concepts I've laid out here even if you can't.

[Usurper]

If it's giving you a granular limit error instead of starting, then you should extract the included dat files into the folder.

Last I heard, TerminX was updating it. I don't know how public the info is, so I'll let him give details if I ever see him on AIM.

[Jim]

Thanks Usurper.
I remember I removed palete.dat because it generates weird colours in the '3DRealms' logo when I launch Duke3d (1.5).

Although I got Mapster to work again, but I found tons of weird things!
Above all, I miss A LOT of Build(1.4) function keys! 2D and 3D modes.
I still don't get that colour choice (TIRING red and blue lines together in 2D mode), nor all those annoying tails around sprites. Most of the time, you don't know where they come from and have a real web on screen when using lots of sprites in a tight space (I really was unable to work on sprites!)
Another huge bug is that it seems to change the start point each time you edit the map! WTF??
I also didn't like all those DOZENS backup files it generated on my disk!!!

Since I haven't found any advantage (well except the grid resolution), I won't want to use it anyway...
(hmm... sorry for my negative test!)

[Jim]

Lookup.dat is a binary file. I don't know how I could change it!

And sorry, here are some keys missing in Mapster
(at least those I noticed, I'm sure there are more!):
3D mode:
- 0 & 1 (num pad): lateral moves
- '+W: sprite display mode (no actor/no effector, etc)
- '+D: skill level display mode
- F6: Map name and next tag

2D mode:
- F5: map infos (detail of all inventory/weapons used in map)
- F6 (if no highlighted sprite): map infos (detail of all actors used in map)
- F6 (if highlighted sprite): Sector effector help page
- F7 (if cursor in a valid space): sector tags help page
- F8 / F9: search option (sprite / sector)
'+3: sprite label display mode
- Tab: sector infos
- Alt Tab: sprite infos
- 0 & 1 (num pad): lateral moves

Sorry, I need all that!

I also noticed actors always face you in Mapster, while they are displayed in their right orientation in Build (VERY annoying!)

At last try this: run Mapster, load a map, change your position with the mouse right button, switch to 3D mode. then back to 2D mode. The start position has been changed!

[ 06-22-2001: Message edited by: Jim ]

[Usurper]

Build had a similar bug. I remember saving in 3d mode and having my start position set to the save point.

Anyway, keep in mind that all the mapster menus and shortcut keys had to be added in from scratch. And he only knows what bugs are in it if people report them. I think the sprite tale variants were something I requested. It's nice to be able to tell in a roomful of sprites which are your actors and which are your sprite floors. But if you ask nice, who knows, he might make it optional. If you need a feature really bad, you should request it from TerminX himself. Improvements can't be made if he doesn't know what people want or what problems they're having.

Lookup.dat is a core duke file for alternate palettes, and I don't see any file that could have the settings for mapster in it (the other .dat files are also core duke files).

[Diaz]

Am I the only person in this world who likes the actual mapster color scheme?
Jesus Christ.....

[Mblackwell]

I have no idea how it would either, I'm just going off of what TerminX told me (I asked him once). To look at it, you probably need a HEX editor.

I got used to the default color scheme pretty fast anyways. Also, that start thing was/is also a bug in build. the way to alleviate that is to cycle 2d and 3d mode once before you do anything. That seems to work.

-Mblackwell

[Jim]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mblackwell:
Also, that start thing was/is also a bug in build.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I launched Build THOUSANDS times, it absolutely NEVER happened to me.
I launched Mapster around 10 times, it happened around 10 times.

[ 06-22-2001: Message edited by: Jim ]

[Mblackwell]

OMG! Are you even USING the latest version.... I don't have those bugs AT ALL, and the controls are all there. Also, as I said before (please read people) you can change the colors... I think the file is "lookup.dat" or something like that.

[cyborg]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jim:
I still don't get that colour choice (TIRING red and blue lines together in 2D mode)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Live with it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
nor all those annoying tails around sprites.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They indicate current alignment mode.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Most of the time, you don't know where they come from and have a real web on screen when using lots of sprites in a tight space (I really was unable to work on sprites!)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Erm, use 3D mode? If you have that many sprites you can't possibly effectively manage them in 2D mode anyway.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Another huge bug is that it seems to change the start point each time you edit the map! [quote]

Build does this for newboard maps. As is starts in 3D mode if you move then it will make the starting position where ever you stop.

[quote]
I also didn't like all those DOZENS backup files it generated on my disk!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you'd be the only person on this earth yet to understand the function of 'undo'? Or do you enjoy it when Build crashes and looses your work?
I know I sure as hell didn't which is why I wanted this feature.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Since I haven't found any advantage (well except the grid resolution), I won't want to use it anyway...
(hmm... sorry for my negative test!)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well don't then. Christ - no one has a gun to your head.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>- '+W: sprite display mode (no actor/no effector, etc)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those are Duke specific classes for actors remember?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
- '+D: skill level display mode<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again that is Duke specific.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
- F6: Map name and next tag<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am pretty sure this is a different key.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>- F5: map infos (detail of all inventory/weapons used in map)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again that is game specific.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>F6 (if no highlighted sprite): map infos (detail of all actors used in map)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>- F6 (if highlighted sprite): Sector effector help page
- F7 (if cursor in a valid space): sector tags help page
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ugh.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>F8 / F9: search option (sprite / sector)
'+3: sprite label display mode
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again I'm pretty certain this is a different key.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Tab: sector infos
- Alt Tab: sprite infos
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know these are different keys and if you read documentation you'd know this too.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I also noticed actors always face you in Mapster, while they are displayed in their right orientation in Build (VERY annoying!)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ugh. No.

Certain actors are given their action animations in Build. This is again Duke specific.

You clearly don't get that this is not supposed to be Build. If it were just a carbon copy there'd be no reason to use it.
Now go and actually read what the site says and you might actually find out how to use it.

[Bruce Hamilton]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>So you'd be the only person on this earth yet to understand the function of 'undo'? Or do you enjoy it when Build crashes and looses your work?
I know I sure as hell didn't which is why I wanted this feature.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree that an autosave feature is a nice addon that build should've had, but even undo only brings you back one step. Saving to a brand new file every time is overkill.

[Jim]

You're pathetic Cyborg! Still trying to proof you can't be wrong, and others are just idiot! Damn, you found a reason for each missing function and bug!!!!!!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>They indicate current alignment mode.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Do you really think I didn't understand?


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>So you'd be the only person on this earth yet to understand the function of 'undo'? Or do you enjoy it when Build crashes and looses your work? I know I sure as hell didn't which is why I wanted this feature.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I never lose anything in Build. As soon as I have built something I want to save, I hit ESC-S, it's quite easy to do, you'd better try...


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Well don't then. Christ - no one has a gun to your head.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Don't worry I don't! (please, don't shoot...)


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Those are Duke specific classes for actors remember?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Again that is Duke specific.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Again that is game specific.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Again...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So you think they're useless then?
Sorry, I won't use those functions anymore...


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>- F6: Map name and next tag

I am pretty sure this is a different key.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's F6.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>- F6 (if highlighted sprite): Sector effector help page
- F7 (if cursor in a valid space): sector tags help page

Ugh.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Very handy! Couldn't live without them.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>F8 / F9: search option (sprite / sector)
'+3: sprite label display mode

Again I'm pretty certain this is a different key.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You'd better believe me.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I also noticed actors always face you in Mapster, while they are displayed in their right orientation in Build (VERY annoying!)

Ugh. No.

Certain actors are given their action animations in Build. This is again Duke specific.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Surely pointless then... Poor Ken Silverman! Why did he implement that?!


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You clearly don't get that this is not supposed to be Build. If it were just a carbon copy there'd be no reason to use it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You clearly don't get that I have no reason to replace Build to half-a-Build!
(I've read here and there it was a good Build replacement...)

[Mblackwell]

Those game specific functions don't mean sh** when building levels for a TC. I've never had problems with the tail thing, and YES it IS a bug in build that your starting position is sometimes changed. You obviously don't build as complex of maps as I do, because it gets to be a problem after awhile.

Oh, and about the crashing... so your saying you've never gone to look at something in 2D or 3D mode that you just spent a long time doing, maybe even hours (*cough* curved surfaces *cough*) and then had build suddelny crash one you? Well gee, you must be wonder boy with the special BUILD powers..... oooooooooooo look him go! smilies/dopefish.gif


Anyways, all those backup maps allow you to go to previous versions of a map if there's errors.... and you know.... there's this little thing you can do called "select the files and press SHIFT-DELETE" which will wipe them from your computer. Since you are obviously new to this concept I'll explain it:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Click on a file
<LI>Hold CTRL
<LI>Click on any other items you wish to select (keep holding CTRL)
<LI>Let go of CTRL and Press SHIFT
<LI>While still holding SHIFT press DELETE
<LI>When the message box pops up, click OK
<LI>LOOK! YOU'VE JUST DELETED SOME FILES!
[/list]

I hope this explaination has helped you in your further use of an "Operating System".

[Mblackwell]

Oh, and ken didn't implement those features in build.... 3DRealms did. Ken merely helped with the engine, and gave them code. Look at his website before you speak of him again.

[Phoenix]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jim:
You're pathetic Cyborg! Still trying to proof you can't be wrong, and others are just idiot!
You clearly don't get that I have no reason to replace Build to half-a-Build!
(I've read here and there it was a good Build replacement...)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Any one can call me newbie, geek, nerd or Superdork, never ever ever idiot!
Ken Silverman programmed Build specifically for the original Duke mapping and game design staff. TerminX is programming Mapster for today’s mappers and TC makers, and their needs. This is the biggest plus. Therefore only short sighted and small-minded people would overlook that fact and continue arguing in favor of a static program.
Yet, you may stay with Build, there is no law saying you must go and meet the future.

[Jim]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>YES it IS a bug in build that your starting position is sometimes changed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Maybe it's been fixed in the Atomic version then. I never ever seen that!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Oh, and about the crashing... so your saying you've never gone to look at something in 2D or 3D mode that you just spent a long time doing, maybe even hours (*cough* curved surfaces *cough*) and then had build suddelny crash one you?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ok. I know curved surfaces may crash Build sometimes. I always save the board before I start some. But I know it may happen at any time anyway.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Since you are obviously new to this concept I'll explain it:

I hope this explaination has helped you in your further use of an "Operating System".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Now let me teach you some smarter things:
del AUTO*.map (or erase AUTO*.map)
or if Dos is too weird for you, then in Windows, use Shift instead of Ctrl when multiselecting sorted filenames. It's way faster!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Oh, and ken didn't implement those features in build.... 3DRealms did.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ok, 3DRealms were wrong then. They added features they didn't need. Obviously.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>TerminX is programming Mapster for today’s mappers and TC makers, and their needs. This is the biggest plus.
Therefore only short sighted and small-minded people would overlook that fact and continue arguing in favor of a static program.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree it's commendable! I'd love to find an enhanced Build.

[Guest]

Part of the fun of BUILD is using what limited resources you have to make something spectacular. At least that's my impression - I haven't made that many build maps.

All I know is con hacking.

[Guest]

"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most"

[Usurper]

I swore I replied to this earlier, but apparently the message didn't get processed. Essentially, if you have problems with Mapster, bugs or otherwise, you should be asking TerminX nicely to fix them. His email is on the mapster page at rtcm.

You know, you can print out an SE cheat sheet...or scribble one down in about 5 minutes.