BioShock

[avatar_58]

Promote it how though? "Xbox 360 - we get content first"? We're getting the demo in a few days, so all they've done is piss everyone off. I can't imagine anyone who'd think "Damn I gotta get me a 360, I can't wait a week or so for content...I want it now!"

[Orochi Avlis]

I'm saddened by this.

[Blue Lightning]

:mad: I hope 3D Realms won't do this crap with DNF. Hopefully a game company remembers who got them here. Even VALVe is now selling out. Damn I'm mad arggggghhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!! :mad::mad:

[Dogy]

Yes, but 2K signed an exclusivity contract with Microsoft to keep the game on the 360 only. MS has the call of when demos are released on Xbox Market Place, not the publisher.... it was MS's call to release this demo now, and as part of the contract they can state the 360 demo comes out first.

Marketplace= 360. There is NO Windows Marketplace that is of the caliber of the 360 Marketplace.

The contract was for console exclusivity. The PC is considered to NOT be a console.

[someguy2435]

This was a stupid move. :doh:

[Phait]

Consoles should be outlawed.

[Blue Lightning]

:mad: G** Damn it, I smell a port. The 360 first then the pc later on, that smells like a *$%#*%#$*&# port! :mad:

[Damien_Azreal]

Dogy... sorry... but, what?

Of course there isn't a Windows Marketplace, we've got tons of websites we could download a demo from. Yes the contract is for console exclusivity, and no the PC in not a console.

I'm fully aware of that.

But MS can state in the contract (and pay a few extra bucks) to release a 360 demo before the PC demo.
Tis my point in my last post.... maybe I didn't word it properly, but a contract of such can have such clauses in it.

G** Damn it, I smell a port. The 360 first then the pc later on, that smells like a *$%#*%#$*&# port!

Okay, now your simply blowing this out or proportion. Yes it's upsetting.... but you can't make a claim like such just because your mad the PC demo wasn't released at the same time as well.
Yeah, I'm a little irked as well... but the PC version is not a port. This has been known for a long time, these demos were made after the game was finished.

Calm down.

[avatar_58]

:mad: I hope 3D Realms won't do this crap with DNF. Hopefully a game company remembers who got them here. Even VALVe is now selling out. Damn I'm mad arggggghhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!! :mad::mad:

What the heck are talking about? Valve hasn't released anything that is console exclusive, and their ports have been subpar at best.

[Blue Lightning]

What the heck are talking about? Valve hasn't released anything that is console exclusive, and their ports have been subpar at best.

Because VALVe will be releasing HL2 Ep2 on the 360 at the same time as PC which is a first. I can only hope they are not porting HL2 Ep2 to the PC.


And Damien_Azreal, how do we know it's not really just a port to the pc from Irrational? So far, all we have seen is 360 gameplay, and now the 360 gets a demo, but not the PC? Is the Austrailian team behind? Or did they REALLY make the whole game? Does it make a lot of sense that the whole game would be made by two seperate teams for two seperate platforms? Seems to me that a port is cheaper...and tonights bit of bad new makes me think this is so. :(

[Damien_Azreal]

Easy.

The console market is easier to sell to.

And we've seen PC footage, I posted a video of PC footage earlier in this thread. We've had reviews of the PC version that scored almost perfectly.

Your simply making blind accusations because your upset. Stop attacking Irrational because MS and 2K had a contract.

[Paroxysm]

Marketplace= 360. There is NO Windows Marketplace that is of the caliber of the 360 Marketplace.

The contract was for console exclusivity. The PC is considered to NOT be a console.

See what xbox calls marketplace we call "the internet" It's this place that offers infinitely more services in competitive environment so users can get the best deal.

So there is NO 360 marketplace that can even scratch the surface of the PC marketplace.

By the way marketplace is a stupid term. I therefore ban it for the rest of the thread.

[avatar_58]

Because VALVe will be releasing HL2 Ep2 on the 360 at the same time as PC which is a first. I can only hope they are not porting HL2 Ep2 to the PC.


Guy - it's the source engine. Episode 2 is simply a few engine enhancements and new levels. It's not rocket science here. Put it back in your pants and calm down.

[Monkey Butler]

Because VALVe will be releasing HL2 Ep2 on the 360 at the same time as PC which is a first. I can only hope they are not porting HL2 Ep2 to the PC.


And Damien_Azreal, how do we know it's not really just a port to the pc from Irrational? So far, all we have seen is 360 gameplay, and now the 360 gets a demo, but not the PC? Is the Austrailian team behind? Or did they REALLY make the whole game? Does it make a lot of sense that the whole game would be made by two seperate teams for two seperate platforms? Seems to me that a port is cheaper...and tonights bit of bad new makes me think this is so. :(

Funniest joke I've heard in a long time.

[Blue Lightning]

:mad: *One more rant*

I'll tell you this much I will not bow down. There are too many things you can do with the pc that the 360 cannot. We have the internet. We can make mods (map packs) and write code. Not to mention the pc is vastly superior to any console in quality and speed. And a pc is not likley to break for no reason.

I could buy a 360 right now. I have plenty of dough. I have a 50 inch Pioneer plasma that would display a game nicley. But I will not play with thumbsticks! I want my screen 19 inchs and 2 feet in front of me! Gates should get out of the game market and go back to doing what he does best...which is "borrowing" *cough* other peoples code for his OS's! :mad:

Guy - it's the source engine. Episode 2 is simply a few engine enhancements and new levels. It's not rocket science here. Put it back in your pants and calm down.

Yeah I guess your right, but there is not much loyalty left for the platform that got all these people here. At the least, VALVe should release Ep2 for the pc at least 3 days before they release it for the 360 :(

SHOW SOME LOYALTY!

[Orochi Avlis]

I think you guys are blowing this out of proportion.
We are getting the game in less than 2 weeks.
Sure it's kinda crappy that the PC side gets demo way after the 360 side, but hey, less than 2 weeks away.

[avatar_58]

I'll tell you this much I will not bow down.


Bow down to what? You make it sound like consoles are the spawn of satan. They are just game consoles designed to provide people with entertainment. It's not some conspiracy to destroy PC gaming.

[Nacho]

Your simply making blind accusations because your upset. Stop attacking Irrational because MS and 2K had a contract.

HARDCORE QFT

[Blue Lightning]

Bow down to what? You make it sound like consoles are the spawn of satan. They are just game consoles designed to provide people with entertainment. It's not some conspiracy to destroy PC gaming.

Wrong, they want us to bow down and buy a 360 so we can play a crappy one hour demo. No thanks, their ploy won't work here :mad:

[Scream]

If it's any consolation, I think this demo release has pretty much killed Live Marketplace. The demo download is brutally slow, and a lot of people seem to be having trouble even connecting. I don't think they've ever released a demo this hotly anticipated before.

I'd hate to see what would happen if they released a Halo 3 demo before the game release.

Anyway, I'm only at 41% downloaded and at this rate won't be playing this tonight.

On the bright side of things, it shows there's a lot of interest in the game, so if it's as good as advertised maybe it'll sell a ton and we'll see more games of this type/quality in future.

[Echo Black]

Blue Lightning, you're batshit insane. Sorry. :dopefish: There's no "ploy" or conspiracy of any kind, and what the hell is "PC LOYALTY" supposed to mean? As long as I get to play the game, it's all good. The PC version will support sharper graphics and sport better control, so consider that your "fanservice".

[Blue Lightning]

Blue Lightning, you're batshit insane. Sorry. :dopefish:

Ok, then Echo you tell us why 2K would do such a thing? Why else would they slap pc gamers in the face like this?

BTW "PC LOYALTY" means considering their fans who have played their games when they made them for the pc. Their fans who were with them before the 360 was here. Their fans who GOT THEM HERE.

A little respect is what I am saying...

[Damien_Azreal]

I just read a few posts from Elizabeth, she just landed on returning home from WizardWorld... and instead of going right to bed she posted just for us PC gamers.

She will update tomorrow afternoon with specific details on the PC demo and the reason for the delay. All she would say tonight was they want the PC demo to absolutely perfect, in the best presentation it could be. So it's taking more time. :love:

EDIT: Blue Lightning... let it go

Yes, I was a little irked... as were a lot of other people. But come on, it's just a game. It's not the end of the world... we get the full damn game in eight days.
We've followed the development of BioShock since 2005, what's eight more days? Seriously man, calm down and let it go.

[Scream]

Ok, then Echo you tell us why 2K would do such a thing? Why else would they slap pc gamers in the face like this?


Maybe they had something in their contract with MS that required them to have a playable demo available a certain amount of time prior to the game's release, and they didn't have time to get both the 360 and PC demos done to meet that date, hence the PC demo coming a little later. The game itself only went gold a few days ago.

[Blue Lightning]

Maybe they had something in their contract with MS that required them to have a playable demo available a certain amount of time prior to the game's release, and they didn't have time to get both the 360 and PC demos done to meet that date, hence the PC demo coming a little later. The game itself only went gold a few days ago.

I don't know Scream, that sounds plausible...but more convincing if it had come from 2k :p

I just read a few posts from Elizabeth, she just landed on returning home from WizardWorld... and instead of going right to bed she posted just for us PC gamers.

She will update tomorrow afternoon with specific details on the PC demo and the reason for the delay. All she would say tonight was they want the PC demo to absolutely perfect, in the best presentation it could be. So it's taking more time. :love:

EDIT: Blue Lightning... let it go

And she couldn't tell us this an hour ago? But instead let us with PC's get all worked up? Do they enjoy reading angry posts or get off on it?

You know what, I don't want the demo now. I won't be DL'ing it. I didn't need to blow a gasket like I did, and a word from Elizabeth an hour ago would of avoided it.

2K handled that PR REAL BADLY.

[Hudson]

Haha holy shit XBL just took a dump :D

Oh well, it'll be done tomorrow morning \o/

[Damien_Azreal]

Yeah, XBL is getting raped right now.

[Steve]

Nah, they don't suffer from "consolitis" - it's just microsoft doing their thing. Like Gears of War Bioshock will sell a few X360s.

[Danule]

Ok, then Echo you tell us why 2K would do such a thing? Why else would they slap pc gamers in the face like this?

BTW "PC LOYALTY" means considering their fans who have played their games when they made them for the pc. Their fans who were with them before the 360 was here. Their fans who GOT THEM HERE.

A little respect is what I am saying...

your ranting like an angry 2 year old. :D

[Scream]

I don't know Scream, that sounds plausible...but more convincing if it had come from 2k :p



And she couldn't tell us this an hour ago? But instead let us with PC's get all worked up? Do they enjoy reading angry posts or get off on it?

You know what, I don't want the demo now. I won't be DL'ing it. I didn't need to blow a gasket like I did, and a word from Elizabeth an hour ago would of avoided it.


Perhaps you should go visit the 2K forums (and hang out with all the other pissed off people). From a little bit of reading you'd find out that the development team for the PC version of the game (completely separate from the 360 dev team - in a different city in fact) has always been slightly behind the 360 team. Their demo simply isn't ready and they're working on it.

I waited an extra 4 or 5 days for the Prey demo over my PC counterparts, and I actually lived to tell about it. Imagine!!

[Scream]

Yeah, XBL is getting raped right now.

No freakin kidding. I'd say that's a good sign. I've already turned my 360 off. It'll have to finish overnight.

[Yatta]

Lame. I don't have a 360 and no money to throw around on one either. Goddammit. First Strangehold, now this.

There's only one explanation for this: MS paid 2K to release the demo on their console first, or it'd have been simultaneously released on the PC. If you don't agree, then you are implying that Bioshock is primarily a console game, which, if you do, is lame in itself because then we'll be getting a 'port' of it.

[Steve]

A late demo doesn't bother me (Hell, we all like to wait for content\something to be released around here anyway :p ;) ). This is nothing :)

[Blue Lightning]

Perhaps you should go visit the 2K forums (and hang out with all the other pissed off people). From a little bit of reading you'd find out that the development team for the PC version of the game (completely separate from the 360 dev team - in a different city in fact) has always been slightly behind the 360 team. Their demo simply isn't ready and they're working on it.

I waited an extra 4 or 5 days for the Prey demo over my PC counterparts, and I actually lived to tell about it. Imagine!!

I know, but I'm saying that if 2K told us this an hour and a half ago, when they released the demo, then all these angry people would not of been angry, including me. But they released the 360 demo and said SQUAT about the PC...that was unessacary, it led to a lot of unneeded rants from me and others. It was a little inconsiderate to the PC'ers to not say something earlier during the 360 release, but instead let us get mad.

Anyway, just answering your question. now to go get a beer and calm down :p

[avatar_58]

Said squat? Elizabeth already said the demo is coming and that more news would come tomorrow. Come down off that roof for a second and drink some coffee.

[Hudson]

Or jump off and get it all over with ;)

[Blue Lightning]

Said squat? Elizabeth already said the demo is coming and that more news would come tomorrow. Come down off that roof for a second and drink some coffee.

I didn't see where she said that. All i saw was "a pc demo would be released later this month"...which could mean a week after the 21st for all we know.

A better way to handle it would be:

"Ok everybody, we are releasing the demo for 360 tonight, and the PC version is running late, but we will try to have it up Tuesday."

[Scream]

I didn't see where she said that. All i saw was "a pc demo would be released later this month"...which could mean a week after the 21st for all we know.

A better way to handle it would be:

"Ok everybody, we are releasing the demo for 360 tonight, and the PC version is running late, but we will try to have it up Tuesday."

So that if they don't have it up Tuesday you can have your second mental breakdown of the week? ;)

[avatar_58]

The BioShock demo, announced after the world premiere of the BioShock launch trailer on Spike TV, has just now gone live on Marketplace. Boot up your 360s and get downloading. Rapture awaits.

For those of you who are looking for a BioShock demo on the PC, it is in the works and will be out later this month. I'll give you more details about it tomorrow

http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/home.html

I'm not making it up or anything.

[Delta]

Yeah, I don't see why people are complaining about the PC demo being delayed.

Everyone else already said it. It's just a game. You're not going to die if you don't get the demo *right now*. What difference does it make if it's delayed? You'll eventually get to play it. And the full game isn't too far away either.

Personally, I never cared about getting any kind of game (demo or not) the instant it comes out. I never saw much value in being "one of the first on my block" to have something. Who cares? :P

[Steve]

Ha... I love the new trailer\advert! Very, very cool! :)

[avatar_58]

Somewhere........across the sea, somewhere waiting for me..

[qwerty]

wow

I just woke up and the announcement was really a demo :love:


Im off to download it

[Steve]

Somewhere........across the sea, somewhere waiting for me..

Yeah, I'm going to have that song in my head all night now :doh:





The 2k Forums are... dangerous. :eek:

[Water12356]

Man, I really hate when this is done. You pay in advance and your gift is basically just an obligation to spend even more.

Well I ocasionaly buy stuff from there so I might as well get the freebee for being a customer. lol

Also, some pictures of BioShock at WizardWorld (you have conned someone into taking you Water).

Sadly no... I decided to save the $25 (ticket price) for Bioshock. lol

And guys calm down about the 360 demo. Its nothing to freak out about. The game is coming out in less than 9 days, and a PC demo is in the works. Sure im slightly disapointed that the demo was not released PC yet, BUT, Its not the end of the world! 9 days! Just be thankfull its not longer than that. :)

[Blue Lightning]

http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/home.html

I'm not making it up or anything.



Yes I see that, "later this month" which could mean two weeks from now which is unexcusable that 360 get's it long before pc. The other thing you told me that she said, the thing about they are trying to tweak it up so it will be just right for the PC, and implying it might be few days...she waited an hour to say it. Why couldnt that of been said when they first announced the PC will be "later this month"?

But no Scream, no more breakdowns from me ;)

[Steve]

Nothing is as bad as waiting for Duke Nukem Forever. Try that! ;)

Bioshock looks to be fantastic and once you have the game on PC you'll forget about how long the PC demo took.

[Scream]

Yes I see that, "later this month" which could mean two weeks from now which is unexcusable that 360 get's it long before pc. The other thing you told me that she said, the thing about they are trying to tweak it up so it will be just right for the PC, and implying it might be few days...she waited an hour to say it. Why couldnt that of been said when they first announced the PC will be "later this month"?

But no Scream, no more breakdowns from me ;)

Ok, imagine this scenario. 2K sets up a big demo launch thing with Spike TV, pushing Bioshock on the 360. Good for them, good for Microsoft. It'll be a big surprise. Good for Spike TV ratings. Contracts are signed, money exchanges hands. They'd need to do that at least a fews weeks and likely a month or more ago, and it's likely that at the time they fully expected to have both versions of the demo available at the same time. Things don't push forward quite as quickly as planned in the PC-version development house. Some extra bugs they have to quash before going gold, who knows? Their demo is late. However, they've already got this obligation with Spike TV. The show is planned. Lots of people counting on this. So, they have to go forward as planned and announce the release of the 360 demo.

They can't say anything about the PC demo being late BEFORE Spike airs it's show, as that would basically be letting the cat out of the bag about the big secret of the 360 demo. Nobody would watch the show. They're contractually obligated to keep their mouths shut to give Spike the "big scoop" and help their ratings. So, they keep mum, and after the announcement they come on their boards to try and calm all the PC users who are stamping their feet demanding their rights as long time supporters of the company.

Sound like a plausible scenario? No, I'm sure what actually happened is that the development company and publisher sat down in a meeting and said to each other "What can we do to REALLY piss a lot of people off today?"

It's been gold for less than a week, the plans with Spike have been there for longer than that, and they had a problem getting the PC demo completed in time. It's a bang bang business, and the timing wasn't perfect this time. Big whoop. The demo is coming, and we're all going to be playing the full game in a week and two days.

[Blue Lightning]

Scream, the moment they announced the demo for DL, they could of added "pc users, we are tweaking it, don't worry, look for it in a few days".

Another reason that I think PC gamers get flustered when consoles get an advantage (besides the loyalty thing), is because we spend time and money updating our rigs. Sure we have best visuals, but only if we upgrade all of the time, and because of the money we have to spend to keep our rigs tops, we would like at least equal consideration.

Funny, Bill Gates owns both platforms...Xbox and windows OS. But he seems to really favor XBox, and seems to dis windows users when it comes to games. He forgot what DooM did for gaming, and for his DOS to be frank. I remember people buying PC's just to play DooM! Yes some people forget where they came from...

Sure I know that consoles been around a long time, but really the console (Pong) didn't start it. It started in 1962 with a computer game called "space wars" that ran on a $100,000 dollar computer at MIT. So the comp did start it.

EDIT: Frankly, I think that BioShock, and then the release of HL2, Ep1 and Ep2 on the 360, is going to show Gates that the Halo series is a so-so FPS with his 360 gamers. Ironic.

[Scream]

Scream, the moment they announced the demo for DL, they could of added "pc users, we are tweaking it, don't worry, look for it in a few days".



Add it where? Spike doesn't give a shit about PC users. They're there to sell product, namely consoles, and have deals with console retailers (in this case Microsoft) to do so. I can guarantee that even if the PC demo had been available they still would have only been talking about the 360 version.

The folks from Irrational were on their forums right after the announcement to say that the PC demo was late, and would be out later. Perhaps they don't know how much later at this point. The woman says she's gonna update everyone tomorrow. That's the info she has, or can give at this point.

It's not all about you, shit happens, things don't always work out as planned, and I'm betting if they could have had it ready in time to coincide with the 360 demo they would have been a lot happier too.

[Blue Lightning]

Add it where? Spike doesn't give a shit about PC users. They're there to sell product, namely consoles, and have deals with console retailers (in this case Microsoft) to do so. I can guarantee that even if the PC demo had been available they still would have only been talking about the 360 version.

The folks from Irrational were on their forums right after the announcement to say that the PC demo was late, and would be out later. Perhaps they don't know how much later at this point. The woman says she's gonna update everyone tomorrow. That's the info she has, or can give at this point.

It's not all about you, shit happens, things don't always work out as planned, and I'm betting if they could have had it ready in time to coincide with the 360 demo they would have been a lot happier too.

The part whrre she says "we want it to be perfect for the pc" showed they MIGHT give a damn about pc gamers. That should of been said on Spike, and if Spike wouldn't say it, then 2K could of told Spike to jump in a lake. Plus it was at least an hour before she said that on the forums, giving PC gamers ample time to blow a gasket.

So no, it's not all about me, it's all about PC gamers. Or it should be. Come on Scream admit it, they handled that badly...

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Who cares?

It's just the damn demo, its not like the actual game is being delayed. You will still be able to play it before the actual game is out.

[CD Racing ZX6R]

Exactly. The demo coming out to the 360 first shouldn't be much of a surprise considering it was designed on that system.

[Aegeri]

This thread proves why I no longer care about demos. I do find it boringly predictable that the PC demo gets delayed, but again, so long as the game comes out on the 24th I couldn't care less.

[Nacho]

This thread proves why I no longer care about demos. I do find it boringly predictable that the PC demo gets delayed, but again, so long as the game comes out on the 24th I couldn't care less.

I don't recall it being delayed.

PC development has always been a few days behind the 360's but still no delay has been made.

I'm happy that I see people so excited over this game.

[psyborg]

That demo would be pretty damn tempting if my console wasn't a giant paper weight with 3 blinking red lights right now. I hope I get a repaired one in time for Bioshock's release.

[CD Racing ZX6R]

Demo delayed? WTF... Two weeks ago there were numous placess saying there wasnt even a demo being worked on most likely because they wanted the game to be perfect upon release.

Now there is a demo out there and people are still crying.

Waaaaaaaaaah. Is all I say.

[CD Racing ZX6R]

That demo would be pretty damn tempting if my console wasn't a giant paper weight with 3 blinking red lights right now. I hope I get a repaired one in time for Bioshock's release.



Dude you gotta send that trash in before the full version is out. Call em up pissed, and if this is your second or third time reporting saying this is getting old and I'm contacting a layer and they will give you a game or two for free.

Either way you gotta have bioshock by the end of this week. The messiah of games has cometh.

[Steve]

a layer and they will give you a game or two for free.

A layer you say?!?! ;) :D

[Nihilanth]

New trailer is pretty cool!

As for demo, I don't really care.

[Kernel Panic]

Well you know, thats fine. As if it's unusual for PC gamers to get shafted anyway. You better believe theres going to be some complaining about this move. But i expected nothing less from Microsoft's bitch.

[Dogy]

Finished the demo.

Length wasn't worth the insane download time. It also felt too easy, hopefully the PC demo will truly have increased AI.

[Chimera]

Disappointed that it's only a 360 demo, started off rather annoyed but after reading some of the vitriol being spewed over at the 2k forums (Steve: you're right :o) I'm not *that* bothered.

Not long to go and my new PC bits are all ready and waiting.... :)

Oh.. the new trailer is awesome :D:D:D

[Bushido]

Damn! It just stopped dead at 51% so I started over. It's now at 72%. Can't wait to play this game. The atmosphere looks incredible...

[FireFly]

You know what, I don't want the demo now. I won't be DL'ing it. I didn't need to blow a gasket like I did, and a word from Elizabeth an hour ago would of avoided it.
Maybe in the future you should wait to hear all the facts before jumping to conclusions and getting angry over nothing.

[Simon Charles]

How cna the game suffer from consolitis when it's already finished?

By having a different movement and camera speed than what PC gamers are used to (like Overlord)? By having a different jumping feel than what PC gamers are used to (like Halo)? By having a control scheme and/or inventory management that destroys the souls of your mouse and keyboard (like DX2)?

I'll download the demo when the XBL raping subsides and prey none of the above apply.

[Scream]

So, here's the Spike trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoYorK3E4aM

Anyone got a link to one with a better resolution? God I hate Youtube.

I just watched the version I downloaded from Live last night, and ironically at the end it says "download the demo now from www.bioshockgame.com". The Youtube version is different. Anyway, seems as if it was intended to have the PC demo ready to go at the same time and it simply didn't happen.

That's a great looking trailer.

edit: Found it. Duh.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/23435.html

[Monkey Butler]

I know this is already done with, but Blue Lightning, but if you knew the first thing about marketing, you'd realise just how stupid it would be for Irrational to get up, have this huge unveiling of their highly-anticipated, just-gone-gold revolutionary game, offer up a trailer and a demo, and then turn around, on air, and say "and yeah well we're not done yet". Anybody that had watched the program that didn't previously know about the game would instantly have major reservations. Making the "we're running late with the PC demo" announcement below board so to speak means that the Spike TV unveiling gets to look as impressive as it was supposed to, and the PC users still know what's going on.

[Tang Lung]

Damn...the PC is like the hidden, unwanted child in a family of smiling idiots.

Microsoft is trying to keep us in it's basement and feed us fish heads when the Theesixties from next door come over for dinner.

[Phait]

Haha.

I :love: you Tang.

[Scream]

Damn...the PC is like the hidden, unwanted child in a family of smiling idiots.

Microsoft is trying to keep us in it's basement and feed us fish heads when the Theesixties from next door come over for dinner.


Yes, you're the red-headed step-child of gaming. :D

Damn I love that new trailer. :love: The Big Daddy is destined to be remembered as one of the greatest game enemies of all time.

[Steve]

Damn I love that new trailer. :love: The Big Daddy is destined to be remembered as one of the greatest game enemies of all time.

It's a great trailer - probably one of my most favs!

[Water12356]

The trailer is short but sweet. Anybody else play the demo yet?

8 days!

[TBZ]

Somewhere, under the sea, somewhere, waiting for me...
I love it! All that violence mixed with that song, it's awesome.

I'm gonna go to sleep now, and not wake up until the 24th! :D

[Blue Lightning]

Making the "we're running late with the PC demo" announcement below board so to speak means that the Spike TV unveiling gets to look as impressive as it was supposed to, and the PC users still know what's going on.

How would an announcment saying that the pc demo is "delayed", make Spike look uninpressive? It would of looked like Spike and 2K have courtesy enough to give pc gamers a "heads up" and show that we are not abandon. Instead, we pc gamers (as said in Full Metal Jacket) "didn't even get the courtesy of a g*d damn reach-around". That makes Spike look too cheap to give up 5 precious seconds of their tv time to even say something to us PC gamers...and this after we all had to suffer through some crappy new show that Spike made us watch. Booooo!

Damn...the PC is like the hidden, unwanted child in a family of smiling idiots.

Microsoft is trying to keep us in it's basement and feed us fish heads when the Theesixties from next door come over for dinner.

Couldn't of said it better myself.

360 and a pc demo at the same time! Mabey 2K should take some of their own advice and "evolve today" :rolleyes:

.

[John]

So anybody else play the demo? It wasn't a very long demo but I can already tell I'm going to love this game, so much of it reminds me of Fallout. The 50's music and videos, etc.

[Daedolon]

It's available somewhere?

[John]

Well...the 360 demo...PC demos coming soon.

[Water12356]

Somewhere, under the sea, somewhere, waiting for me...
I love it! All that violence mixed with that song, it's awesome.

I'm gonna go to sleep now, and not wake up until the 24th! :D

Man I wish I could do that. But noooo I have to work... Especaly so I can buy the damn game and my Ipod Mini is close to death.

[Monkey Butler]

How would an announcment saying that the pc demo is "delayed", make Spike look uninpressive? It would of looked like Spike and 2K have courtesy enough to give pc gamers a "heads up" and show that we are not abandon. Instead, we pc gamers (as said in Full Metal Jacket) "didn't even get the courtesy of a g*d damn reach-around". That makes Spike look too cheap to give up 5 precious seconds of their tv time to even say something to us PC gamers...and this after we all had to suffer through some crappy new show that Spike made us watch. Booooo!
Think of 3DR and DNF as the extreme example - you make an announcement when you're not ready and you become a laughing stock. It doesn't exactly instill confidence in a company or their product if at the same time they're unveilling things they're also announcing delays. You might see it as the right thing to do, but it "wouldn't play well in middle America".
Basically, people like you are already going to play and buy the game. They don't need to do anything to sell it to you, and they'd have to do a fair bit to convince you not to buy it. But that doesn't mean they don't have to present the best possible face to other consumers.

[CommanderZx2]

I am kinda pissed off that there is a 360 demo out and no PC demo. Makes me want to cancel my preorder and only buy it a while after release when the price has gone down. As as sort of I can play at that game as well.

[alexgk]

I'll download the demo as soon I'm at home.

[Bushido]

Demo Thoughts:

-Opening scene is absolutely breathtaking. Seriously guys, you will be taken aback by the visuals...

-Movement just feels right. Lightly press to walk, all the way to run.

-Ambient sound effects are perfect. It's just what you'd expect from somebody that had something to do with System Shock 2.

-Water effects. They're jaw dropping...throughout the demo they play a huge part in creating atmosphere...

-Graphics. Wait until you see rapture the first time. you will do what I did: stand there and just LOOK at stuff. I pity the poor PC user that doesn't have the comp good enough to play the game like I just did (1080p HD, 1980x1020 resolution, no stuttering)

-Enemy AI is smart. They strafe. They run and hide from you only to attack later. They rush you from around corners. Awesome...

-Gameplay and control system is much improved over theols System shock 2 way of doing things. Hold down "A" to read dairies (no more taking you out of the game...), food gets auto-eaten, you auto inject yourself when you run low, you never re-search a body you searched (a big complaint about SS2) and you don't have to "activate" respawn points...it's all automatic...

FUNNY HIGHLIGHTS FROME DEMO:

-Getting drunk off of a few bottles of whiskey.
-Shooting this guy banging on a door only to have him fall dead up against it.
-Hacking a security bot and failing...you die!
-Getting two security bots to fight to the death...
-watching the security bot try to damage something I know it can't hit.
-setting yourself on fire...FUN!
-lightning to wrench combo equals fun...

[Phait]

(1080p HD, 1980x1020 resolution


Pick one.

[alexgk]

How long is it?

[Damien_Azreal]

This was posted today....

A BioShock PC Demo IS coming. We tried as hard as humanly possible to get it out to you guys simultaneously with the 360 demo, but we needed to make sure that it was perfect -- that all drivers were ready, and that the game looked great on a huge variety of computers.

Currently, the PC demo in its final stages of testing and approval. We are pushing to get it out to you as soon as possible. It will be out during the month of August, and everyone is working at full capacity to deliver it to you before the game hits store shelves on August 21st. I will also let you know as soon as I have an exact date for the demo's release, so please stay tuned.

I cannot express enough how sorry I am for the wait. Thank you for understanding and your patience. Just remember -- only eight days left till you get your hands on the full game.

I’ll let you know where to get the demo as soon as it becomes available.

The Australian team has always been at least a few weeks behind the Boston team, so for them to be that close on the PC demo is a huge accomplishment.

And I'm glad they are taking the extra time to make sure it's compatible with the latest drivers, and to push the quality on it. I've played demos in the past that have serious issues with sound/video drivers and they are a bitch.

It's good to know the team took the extra time to iron out all the details so PC gamers get a good playable experience.

Also, according to some stuff I've read about the testing and such of the demo, it could be out within the next couple of days at the rate it's going. 2K is really pushing the testing stages to get it out.

[Bushido]

Pick one.

Um...I did pick one. 1080p and 1980x1020 resolution.

[Scream]

I hope they have the PC demo out soon for all the PC gamers. I'm looking forward to seeing this thread take off with everyone's experiences of this game. :)

[Damien_Azreal]

Found this...

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/94616.html?playlist=featured

A video of he demo being played, nice for those of us without 360s. It's only the first of a multi part video... but the intro is f*cking awesome.

[avatar_58]

Damien, you've been following all info closely yes? Can you maybe find out if Bioshock will see speed increases with a Quad Core over a Dual core? I need help choosing my new CPU.

[Damien_Azreal]

Quad Core will see an increase, but not enough of one to warrant buying a Quad Core CPU.

The biggest difference in BioShock is between a single core to dual core. On a single core CPU all the games resources are handle on that single thread, creating a much more taxing workload.
But on Dual Core CPUs the physics and a few other items use the second core, to ease the amount of power needed.

Quad Core work the same way as Dual Cores in BioShock, only the game wasn't programmed to fully take advantage of four threads. You would see a difference in performance, but maybe only a few frames. Not really enough to justify the cost.
A high end Dual Core will suit you just fine.

[MegaMustaine]

Man this game looks to be the most impressive looking game graphically I have ever seen. Hopefully the gameplay will hold up to the standard set by the graphics. I can't wait to go try it on my buddy's 360.

[Another Duke Fan]

The 360 demo is an orgasm for the senses. I mean graphically and technically the XBOX has never seen anything like this before. Neither has the PC. The game play is incredibly rich and dynamic, yet well balanced. It is so addictive and the whole atmosphere so unbelievable grotesque, yet real that I felt like acting in a nightmare, not in a game. I could not put the controller down to first go and finally eat something and then to type this down. For those of you guys who did not try this yet, this game is a steam hammer. Trust me.

[Hudson]

Oh man, pure awesome! :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

Everything about this is drenched in detail, it's gotta be experienced to be explained.

[Phait]

Um...I did pick one. 1080p and 1980x1020 resolution.

But 1020 isnt 1080.

[Damien_Azreal]

New trailer....

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/23465.html

Enjoy.

[Scream]

New trailer....

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/23465.html

Enjoy.

You know Damien, I honestly feel a little guilty about playing this demo before you. You've done such a great job keeping this thread going. Thanks, I'll be thinking about ya when I'm checking out Rapture for the first time. :)

[Thief]

Man, those videos are depressing. I probably won't even get half the detail those videos show, and I have a fairly decent rig.

I just want that demo to come before Sunday because I'll be on vacation until the 28th.

[avatar_58]

A high end Dual Core will suit you just fine.

Well the quad won't cost me a penny more than a high end dual core.

[Damien_Azreal]

You know Damien, I honestly feel a little guilty about playing this demo before you. You've done such a great job keeping this thread going. Thanks, I'll be thinking about ya when I'm checking out Rapture for the first time. :)

No problem. :) BioShock has been my most anticipated game since FEAR, and with it being so close to release I can stand to wait a few more days.
Don't feel quilty, enjoy the demo and please, give us a detailed view on it once you get a chance. :)

Well the quad won't cost me a penny more than a high end dual core.

Well if it won't cost you anymore I would say just bite the bullet and go for it. Games may not support Quad cores now (hell we're just now starting to support dual core) but down the road it'll come in handy.

[TBZ]

Found this...

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/94616.html?playlist=featured

A video of he demo being played, nice for those of us without 360s. It's only the first of a multi part video... but the intro is f*cking awesome.

Jesus Christ!
Is all that ingame?! That looks F:censored:ING INCREDIBLE!
I demand that the current day be changed to Aug 24th! Now! :eek::D

[Damien_Azreal]

Yep, in game and recorded from the 360.

PC version will feature sharper textures and effects... also DX10 version will feature better water effects.

But either way the 360 version is a gorgeous game.

[TBZ]

Better water effects :o?!
Man, it already looks amazing, and you tell me that it will look slightly better on the PC, awesome.
My jaw dropped when I realised that the water effects in the beginning was done ingame, I haven't found it yet :D

[Damien_Azreal]

BONUS.... (no it's not the PC demo)


Posted by Elizabeth just a while ago.

Way back when I was creating the BioShock Limited Edition, I took a poll for what you guys wanted to see in the box. And while we managed to put your top 3 choices in – the Making of DVD, Soundtrack CD, and Big Daddy Figurine, we just couldn’t manage a BioShock artbook.

But with a game as beautiful as BioShock, that just didn’t sit right with me. Because everyone should be able to experience the beauty of BioShock, see the concept art and visualize the evolution of building such a revolutionary game.

So, with the help of the BioShock team and an amazing art designer, I put together a BioShock artbook for everyone to download. Here it is, in all its glory, in two PDF versions: a smaller, ebook download, and a more hi-resolution version that you can take to your local printshop and bind.

The one thing I’d recommend is skipping over Ken’s foreword until after you’ve played the game, as it holds some spoilers you might want to keep secret your first playthrough is complete.

Other than that, and without further ado, I present to you BioShock: Breaking the Mold.

Download the BioShock Artbook. (http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/artbook.html)

This kicks ass. This was the one thing I wanted in the Collector's Edition and now it's here. :love:

[Simon Charles]

Finished the demo... wow... just... wow.

The first few minutes petrified me like. Initially, I thought the effects were prerendered; nope, all in-game. I took me a while to snap out of it and realize "Oh, I can use the controller now?" I had the exact same reaction back when Half-Life was first released and I discovered I could move the mouse in the intro train ride.

Visually, this game looks gorgeous, just as much as GoW and runs without a hitch. Constantly smooth framerate. And it deserves a freggin Oscar for atmosphere and sound design. My god, what a grotesque carnaval of blood and creepiness. It felt like System Shock, Blood and Half-Life all wrapped into one sickening, twisted reality. I've never been so spooked of dying in a videogame since the original Half-Life.

IMHO, the only un-awesome part of this demo was the gameplay. Once you peel off the gorgeous graphics, you have "only" a competent hybrid shooter. Hopefully the full game will pack more action. But hey, I'm nitpicking the first 20 minutes of a full product.

Some minor annoyances cropped up, such as the inability to turn off rumble (or maybe I just never found it?) and the aiming of the plasmid powers sucking donkey balls. I wasted god knows how many electric bolts trying to hit just a few enemies. Slightly frustrating in the middle of a firefight with 4 people around you as you're frantically switching weapons, reloading, etc. I guess I'm just never gonna be comfortable with shooters on a console.

So now all that will decide my purchase is the PC demo. If my computer can run it (which I doubt), then for sure I'll get the PC version. 10$ cheaper, and I can enjoy mouse aim.

On the other side, I'd get all the atmosphere of a gorgeous 360 version I can comfortably play on my couch with a HDTV and home theater system. But at the price of some frustration over the controls and aiming.

Either way, I was very impressed and I'll definately get this game for one or the other platform... just not now. Not at full price. It was good, but not enough for me to put ahead of Mario Galaxy, TF2 or Left 4 Dead when they come out.

Bottom line : anyone who enjoyed System Shock, get this game. And for those who are new to this kind of gameplay and you have a 360, you're apparently in for one hell of a shocking, spooky and unforgettable ride.

[avatar_58]

I pre-ordered the LE. :D

[Scream]

My jaw dropped when I realised that the water effects in the beginning was done ingame

That's pretty much exactly how I felt. After the plane crashed and I surfaced, I didn't realize I'd been given control of the character for 10-15 seconds. Once I started swimming, seeing the plane sinking, fire all around me, and the amazing water, well, I'm 38 years old, and I was giggling with excitement like a little kid. :D THAT's what a well made game should do for you.

Good demo. The atmosphere is there. It's a creepy game. Graphics are beautiful, the frame rate was fluid, and the controls are very easy to master (which is always something I worry about, but these were simple). Someone here mentioned enemy AI. I didn't see any of that at all. As soon as they saw you they pretty much ran at you. However, I was playing on "Easy", so perhaps they are extra dumb on that. I'm not really expecting intelligent AI, and to be honest it wouldn't really fit. Splicers have gone CRAZY and are only concerned with killing you to get what they want. They're not soldiers.

Water effects were definitely the best I've seen in any game, the two plasmids you get to play with (the electricity and fire ones) were fun and very effective, and the wrench kicks ass. The pistol and machine gun were fun too, although I really like the electro bolt + wrench combo.

Music was what you'd expect, and really added to the atmosphere, and the sound in general was great. You're hearing doors open and close in the distance, which keeps you on edge and looking around all the time, and voices, always the voices...

Didn't get to do too much with the environment, other than electrocuting a bunch of splicers in the water, but I didn't experiment much the first time through, so I'll give it another go and see what else I can do.

If the demo is any indication, this game has great potential to be huge.

[Hudson]

This was from a PM, however it perfectly explains my feelings on the demo and game thus far.. so i'll repeat it.

Since the first announcement i've had standards set so high I really didn't think they could deliver, especially considering my almost unhealthy obsession with Shock 2.. however from playing the demo, albeit short it was.. my fears have been put to rest.

From what i've played, BioShock is the most atmospheric, polished, and most beautifully detailed game I have ever played in my gaming life. It literally drowns you in immersion and never lets you go.

Irrational, even to the end, proved once again why they're my favorite developer.

[Damien_Azreal]

That's pretty much exactly how I felt. After the plane crashed and I surfaced, I didn't realize I'd been given control of the character for 10-15 seconds. Once I started swimming, seeing the plane sinking, fire all around me, and the amazing water, well, I'm 38 years old, and I was giggling with excitement like a little kid. :D THAT's what a well made game should do for you.

Good demo. The atmosphere is there. It's a creepy game. Graphics are beautiful, the frame rate was fluid, and the controls are very easy to master (which is always something I worry about, but these were simple). Someone here mentioned enemy AI. I didn't see any of that at all. As soon as they saw you they pretty much ran at you. However, I was playing on "Easy", so perhaps they are extra dumb on that. I'm not really expecting intelligent AI, and to be honest it wouldn't really fit. Splicers have gone CRAZY and are only concerned with killing you to get what they want. They're not soldiers.

Water effects were definitely the best I've seen in any game, the two plasmids you get to play with (the electricity and fire ones) were fun and very effective, and the wrench kicks ass. The pistol and machine gun were fun too, although I really like the electro bolt + wrench combo.

Music was what you'd expect, and really added to the atmosphere, and the sound in general was great. You're hearing doors open and close in the distance, which keeps you on edge and looking around all the time, and voices, always the voices...

Didn't get to do too much with the environment, other than electrocuting a bunch of splicers in the water, but I didn't experiment much the first time through, so I'll give it another go and see what else I can do.

If the demo is any indication, this game has great potential to be huge.

Thank you for that Scream. :)

And Hudson's remarks I had already read, but it's still nice. I knew instantly a couple years ago this would be a game, if not the game, to keep an eye on. And I'm so glad I did.

God eight days can not go by quick enough for me.

EDIT: Full video of the 360 demo, 25 minutes long. Does contain spoilers... watch at your own risk.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/94793.html?playlist=featured

[Phait]

BONUS.... (no it's not the PC demo)
Posted by Elizabeth just a while ago.

This kicks ass. This was the one thing I wanted in the Collector's Edition and now it's here. :love:

Proves they care about their fans. I oughta look at their past games...

[Hudson]

Irrational (i'll always call them that) always have :love:

Now I need to take a trip to a printshop :D

[Damien_Azreal]

Irrational (i'll always call them that) always have :love:

Now I need to take a trip to a printshop :D

Tis what I'm doing right now. :love:

[Dogy]

After playing through the demo three times, my opinion is a mixed-bag. I don't know what to say, because I wasn't expecting anything nor did I know anything about the game. What I can say is that I felt "compressed", I wasn't immersed.

And after looking over my favorite games, it seems I'm a teenager with testosterone as steroids. No really, I mean it. My favorite games consist of over-the-top in-your-face brutal combat with blood and gore and the like all over the place. The only games that are in my collection that are slow-paced either have gore in them or are strategy games. I adore fast-paced stuff more than anyone else on this board, most likely.

[jimbob]

360?? Where the hell is PC demo?

wondering the same. this sucks.

[Blue Lightning]

I tried to watch the demo but it quits at about 20 min in :mad:

[Water12356]

Wow that plasmid trailer... INTENSE!! Damn it I want this game bad. Hopefully the artbook (TY liz!) will keep me ocupied and not make me want the game even more. lol

[avatar_58]

And after looking over my favorite games, it seems I'm a teenager with testosterone as steroids. No really, I mean it. My favorite games consist of over-the-top in-your-face brutal combat with blood and gore and the like all over the place. The only games that are in my collection that are slow-paced either have gore in them or are strategy games. I adore fast-paced stuff more than anyone else on this board, most likely.

I don't anymore. Thats why id's offerings make me yawn compared to stuff like this. Rage - meh, Bioshock - woot.

[Damien_Azreal]

Another new trailer.... :p

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/23486.html

Once again, enjoy. :)

[Water12356]

Ahhh stop with the trailers! I cant stand it!! :p

[Damien_Azreal]

It is my purpose. :)

[Blue Lightning]

I'm watching the trailers, pretending i'm controlling the action with my mouse and keyboard :( how sad

:mad: 2k

[Water12356]

That art book is wonderfull! Although it says before the ty's to the artists it says "warning spoilers ahoy!". I didnt see that message... funny thing is though I really didnt see anything that would have been a spoiler. But maybe thats because I'm tired and listening to music right now. lol

[Yatta]

Another new trailer.... :p

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/23486.html

Once again, enjoy. :)

First of all, screw that link. Get the real deal (Super HD) here: http://ve3d.ign.com/videos/play/14452/PC/BioShock

Second of all, is that pre-rendered? Looks magnificent.

[MegaMustaine]

Well after playing this game, I can definitively say that it is the most beautiful and atmospheric game I have ever played. The graphics are amazing, and the atmosphere reminds me of Batman: TAS. Unfortunately I'm not sure whether or not I like the gameplay. It isn't that the gameplay is bad, or wrong. Sure the aiming sucks as was mentioned earlier, but the main issue for me was that the gameplay seemed more liked condemned than an action shooter. It isn't bad, but I definitely don't think it is my style. I guess it doesn't matter as I don't have a 360 to play it on nor a computer to run it, and my buddy won't be purchasing it. Anybody who likes the slow quirky gameplay will be in for a visual and audio experience like no other.

[Aegeri]

Sure the aiming sucks as was mentioned earlier,

It's on a console. I expect the aiming to suck by default and watching the immense pain of many previous movies (all from the 360 version) is actually the main reason I've watched virtually no further previews (only the first and hunting the big daddy video). I literally cannot stand the pain of watching someone slowly aim at something 2 feet away and still miss. It literally makes me frustrated.

It's been good from a "not ruining the game" point of view though :p

[Bushido]

Well after playing this game, I can definitively say that it is the most beautiful and atmospheric game I have ever played. The graphics are amazing, and the atmosphere reminds me of Batman: TAS. Unfortunately I'm not sure whether or not I like the gameplay. It isn't that the gameplay is bad, or wrong. Sure the aiming sucks as was mentioned earlier, but the main issue for me was that the gameplay seemed more liked condemned than an action shooter. It isn't bad, but I definitely don't think it is my style. I guess it doesn't matter as I don't have a 360 to play it on nor a computer to run it, and my buddy won't be purchasing it. Anybody who likes the slow quirky gameplay will be in for a visual and audio experience like no other.

I don't think it ever claimed to be an "action shooter" ...at least I never thought it was going to be that...

[MegaMustaine]

It has nothing to do with the console. I have played console games with good aiming. The issue is that the crosshair seems inaccurate and aiming the magic (forgot what it is called, and I'm too lazy to read the other posts) really sucks. It is a problem inherent with the game, and not the system.

[MegaMustaine]

I don't think it ever claimed to be an "action shooter" ...at least I never thought it was going to be that...

Maybe I used the wrong words. I thought it would be equivalent to say Half Life. I didn't think it would be like Painkiller. The problem I had with it, was that the combat got boring to me real quick. Feels too damn clunky IMHO. As I mentioned earlier, it feels a lot like condemned.

[TBZ]

As I've said before, I'm getting it for my PC, for a couple of reasons;

1) I've never had the patience to get used to FPS's on consoles.
2) While we have two 360's in the house, neither is in my room, so I couldn't be playing it whenever I wanted.
3) The PC CE was cheaper than the regular 360 one.
4) I'm fairly certain my computer will be able to run it.

Also, I enjoy playing games on my computer more than on consoles.

[Nihilanth]

Man, they've released an Artbook. Didn't see it coming. It's amazing, thanks 2K! Uhm... Irrational... whoever, thanks. :)

[Towelie2k4]

I ordered the PC CE a while ago. Problem is, my computer will probably say it's heartfelt goodbyes then die a valiant death trying to play it. I'll have to wait until I get a kickass monstrosity to play it on, which could be quite a while yet. Bugger.

It's awesome that the artbook was released, shows such devotion toward the fans. :love:

[dessloch]

Is it really multiple ways when it's hack or shoot? This isn't amazing depth here :) This is like Half-Life 2....shoot things, or physics gun. About the same. So far, anyway. (http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?id=14927983#itemanchor_14927983)

Love it how he drags HL2 in everything. Can't blame him though. Not too many people have played or even know of that obscure little game released back in '99. What was the name? Ah yes, System Shock 2.:p

[Steve]

So, what's he trying to say?

[CD Racing ZX6R]

The demo was utterly amazing. Confirmed day one must have, maybe even have children with it.

[Decker]

Love it how he drags HL2 in everything. Can't blame him though. Not too many people have played or even know of that obscure little game released back in '99. What was the name? Ah yes, System Shock 2.:p

What's your point? I mean, what about System Shock? HL2 is a recent, relevant example as far as the depth and choice goes.

[dessloch]

See what i mean?;)

[hanged_man]

I'm watching the trailers, pretending i'm controlling the action with my mouse and keyboard :( how sad

:mad: 2k

Now that's really one desperate act ....and kind of scary

[Steve]

The intro for the big daddy is ******* cool.

[Aegeri]

What's your point? I mean, what about System Shock? HL2 is a recent, relevant example as far as the depth and choice goes.

LOL.

D:

[Lethe]

Next-Gen (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6808&Itemid=2) is running an interesting story on the fate of BioShock as it were. Actually, on the genesis of the project, and how Irrational Games, the makers of the soon-to-be-released horror FPS (to be published by 2K Games), had to knock on publisher doors for years and get those same doors slammed in their face by folks who dubbed BioShock as “just another [expletive] PC FPS that's going to sell 250,000 units."

Irrational's Ken Levine offers this particularly sobering quote: "This sort of attitude really pissed me off. System Shock 2, for all its critical success, didn't sell very well, which turned buyers off. Something I realized very quickly was that as much as your boss won't ever know that you turned down a future game of the year, he will know that you signed up a turkey. You don't get fired for not taking risks. That kind of mentality is driving the industry into a creative cul de sac."

[Joe Siegler]

http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28077

This thread has gotten too large. Closed. Part 2 can be reached via this link.