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Glassagate 01-19-2010 10:07 PM

Language for a beginner
 
Any suggestions? My interest is in game development.

Dopefish7590 01-20-2010 04:36 AM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
If you want to get the basics of game development downpat, you could try out MZX Robotic or ZZT-OOP (Yeah, I get the pun.) Between the two, ZZT is easier and is awesome for just picking up programming. MZX is like a more advanced ZZT (It was based off it originally) but it is a bit more difficult to pick up. But it will only teach general programming practices to you and the languages won't really be that useful after you understand that. Mainly due to the fact they are very simplistic, but they are fun to experiment with. From there, you could dive into C (Or one of it's variants), but the learning curve may be a bit steep at times, but after you pick it up... You will have arguably one of the best languages for general programming (game or not) at your disposal. Or if you want something a bit easier, BASIC (Or one of it's variants) is nice for making simple games and applications... Also Visual Basic is used by most of Office (Word, Excel, Access, etc...) so you could pick that up if you decide if you want a programming job and can't pick up game development.

JAVA is also worth considering... But I can't really say that I know what the language is like.

ZuljinRaynor 01-20-2010 10:47 AM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
I myself started with C/C++. Modding Wolf3D, copy and pasting tutorials and then just picking things up. It made it also easy to learn JAVA. C++ isn't hard if you try. It's mostly logical thinking that you need to figure out how to do certain things.

Sang 01-20-2010 02:09 PM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
The C-family would be my suggestion.

Java is fairly easy if you don't get ahead of yourself (get the basics down first and frequently put your skills to the test)

edit:
Of course it needs to be said, if you don't even know what language to use then you won't be developing games yet by tomorrow, learning that stuff can take months :)

ZuljinRaynor 01-20-2010 04:32 PM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
Also once you learn one, it's much easier to learn others. If you learn JAVA or C related stuff first, the other will be for the most part similar. Sure some terms and syntax is different but once you get the hang of one the others are easy to grasp too.

peoplessi 01-20-2010 06:30 PM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
C++, not the easiest but neither is Java. No use in learning Java before C++. Or C instead of C++. BUT as stated above multiple times, the actual language matters little. It's pretty easy to learn a new language, the mindset it more important. Same with modeling, programs have bit different UI's but that's the biggest difference.

Jiminator 01-20-2010 07:01 PM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
The more appropriate questions would be what are your interests, what specific things do you have experience in and so forth. game development can mean anything...

Sang 01-20-2010 07:23 PM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by peoplessi (Post 913059)
No use in learning Java before C++.

Java is the first programming language I am learning right now and it's going pretty well, though granted I'm learning it at college. Would probably be more difficult to learn by yourself.

peoplessi 01-20-2010 07:43 PM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
It's pretty common to start with Java in schools. C++ benefits are the plethora of tutorials on internet and mature libraries now days.

It's pretty much impossible to say what one should learn first, but for (professional) games C++ is pretty much a standard. People have preferences, some might suggest C, some Java, some C++, some Python. I would just aim for the language first of which one is most interested in.

Crosma 01-21-2010 01:13 AM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
LISP or Scheme, because functional programming is the purest of the pure. C if you're interested in performance.

Everything else is too new, so I hate it by default. Unless you were going to suggest Fortran or COBOL or something. Be my guest.

IceColdDuke 01-21-2010 09:38 AM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ZuljinRaynor (Post 912965)
I myself started with C/C++. Modding Wolf3D, copy and pasting tutorials and then just picking things up. It made it also easy to learn JAVA. C++ isn't hard if you try. It's mostly logical thinking that you need to figure out how to do certain things.

I second that, and I wouldn't start with Java if your interest is in game programming. I might also start with XNA they have a pretty nice framework, and if you don't have the bad habits of a C++ programmer, C# is actually a nice language. XNA is good if you want to get into XBOX 360 programming(legally).

Gelpack 01-28-2010 02:33 AM

Re: Language for a beginner (C# )
 
Choose C# in Microsoft Visual Studio.NET ( For General Programming ). Its the most popular language/Development Enrironment today.

Syntax is pretty easy to understand. Many people take the VB approach because the syntax is slightly more user freindly, but its a bit like learning to drive in an Automatic, sometime you will have to learn to drive a manual, so you may as well do it right off the bat !

HTH - Gelly

Crosma 01-28-2010 02:49 AM

Re: Language for a beginner (C# )
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gelpack (Post 914315)
Its the most popular language/Development Enrironment today.

Really? I don't believe that.

C# is alright though. If you're into that whole managed code thing.

Hudson 02-03-2010 11:12 AM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
I would go with C/C++

Chimera 02-03-2010 12:14 PM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
My first language was PASCAL :love:

Not much use for gaming, but good for learning the fundamentals of programming.

Hudson 02-03-2010 12:18 PM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
Mine was .CON

Not much use for.. well, anything. Jesus .CON sucks, or at least it did back in the day before EDuke freed everyone from trying to smash a square peg into yet another square peg.

IceColdDuke 02-10-2010 05:31 PM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hudson (Post 915394)
Mine was .CON

Not much use for.. well, anything. Jesus .CON sucks, or at least it did back in the day before EDuke freed everyone from trying to smash a square peg into yet another square peg.

What I dont get is people making TC's for EDuke32. For making Duke Nukem Mods its not that bad, but for making TC's its kinda pointless esp for its lack of debugging features.

vidfuse 03-08-2010 09:13 AM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
I always neglected learning to program, not the smartest thing. I only did the hello world using a tutorial and compiler from bloodsheddev, I also did a little bit of scripting in GTK Radiant for Enemy Territory. I started taking a free course that I found on youtube through Stanford University and it's cool they even give you links to download the custom compiler for use in the course and also the assignment files. The course is Programming Methodology CS106A very good stuff for a beginner. That aside my opinion would be to learn C++ but not being a programmer I can't give a recommendation on what language to use. I also read some people saying that it's less about learning the language and more about the mindset. I think that's what the methodology is about, I only made it to lesson three, since I put it on hold because of other things I am doing like video editing and studying a Network Security Professional book I picked up at a local discount store.

Parkar 03-14-2010 08:57 AM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
I think starting with C# or JAVA is a good idea. They are both strongly typed so they will inform you of bad OO design in a more direct nammer than c++.

If your interested in going a bit lower level and understanding how things are executed I would start with c and then go to c++. Note that c/c++ pretty much lets you do anything to anything as long as it makes sense to the CPU. This could get frustrating for a beginner as it is often not obvious what you did wrong, it just crashes.

At the university I studied they actualy start with functional programming(Haskell). This is definatly not a shortcut but it forces you to start thinking algorithmicaly rather then worrying about the operations you need to perfom when implementing the algorithm. If you have the patience to spend several months learning this before doing the kind of programming you really want to learn I think it will pay off in the end.

8IronBob 03-16-2010 03:17 PM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
I would recommend you download Bloodshed Dev-C++, since that uses MinGW which uses all sorts of C/C++ style code. Definitely a good place to start, it's open-source, can be used with all sorts of C/C++ code variants, and from my experience, it's been one of the easier compiler/IDE environments I've used in years.

Jokke_r 03-18-2010 02:03 AM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
If you've never done any kind of programming before then starting with something like python might not be a bad idea, considering python aims for a very simplistic syntax so all you really need to learn are the basics of programming, logic, structure etc. Once you got that under control you can apply those skills directly to another programming language by only learning the syntax and/or the basic libraries of the new language.

Xgthug 03-24-2010 05:00 PM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
If you're interested in making serious and quality games, go with C/C++.
Nothing will ever top it.

If you're just looking to mess around, I would suggest Game Maker, but be careful... Learning the GM language will actually unteach you how to program, and may cause irreversible brain damage, preventing you from ever learning a REAL programming language.

peoplessi 03-24-2010 07:42 PM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
Haskell is the new C++ ;) Yeah, definitely more about the mindset than the language. The semantics don't have big differences. I'm not sure if I'd go Python, since it's not that much more simple to learn.

Xgthug, Serious games? You can make serious games with C#, Java, middleware(Unity/Torque) and so fort. C# is a nice language.

8IronBob 03-24-2010 08:27 PM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
Before I went to Dev-C++, tho, I did use Blitz 3D, which is probably one of the programming languages that uses the least amount of code to make a 3D game, and it's probably one of the easier ones around, too. I suggest you pick up these books:

Game Programming for Teens, Third Edition (Paperback)
3D Game Programming for Teens (Paperback)

Should be a rather decent start, I'd have to say. These certainly got me into doing some serious stuff later on down the road.

Xgthug 03-25-2010 10:34 AM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
I agree... Blitz Basic is really good, as well... I dabbled in it, and I had a friend who made some really impressive material in Blitz, including his own 3D engine, which we even started developing a multi-player FPS game in.
He was able to import maps created in 3D World Studio, which worked perfectly for making levels. The engine was nearly flawless, and looking back, I wish we had continued making it.

peoplessi 03-25-2010 07:08 PM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
Ok, that's something I wouldn't recommend. If you need to go that route, choose something that it's more standard - like C# with XNA, Unity3D with C#/JavaScript or even Boo. There's a lot of alternatives, but to learn something very specific for one program as first language isn't really wise.

Essentially there is countless of languages one could learn as their first. I would still stick to something other than Blitz Basic.

Xgthug 03-25-2010 07:59 PM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by peoplessi (Post 921491)
Ok, that's something I wouldn't recommend. If you need to go that route, choose something that it's more standard - like C# with XNA, Unity3D with C#/JavaScript or even Boo. There's a lot of alternatives, but to learn something very specific for one program as first language isn't really wise.

Essentially there is countless of languages one could learn as their first. I would still stick to something other than Blitz Basic.

Why? It's relatively easy and versatile.
I think you're just trying to contradict me because you're a Grade-A 3DR-Forum Meanie-Head. :(

peoplessi 03-26-2010 09:24 AM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
No, I just believe learning something that's very specific to Blitz 3D. You have better options available, I'm repeating myself, but C# with XNA or Unity3D isn't bad choice either. Blitz basic just isn't on my top list for beginners language.

8IronBob 04-03-2010 09:12 PM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
Well, back when I was REALLY getting started in coding, it was with QBasic/QuickBASIC, as most back during those "Dark Ages of DOS" were made familiar with. Of course, that was a standard DOS 5.0 language during those days. I really say I miss those old days, that was fun to write in. That was where I *really* got into beginning to learn how to write apps. Of course, when I got Borland C++ back then from my father, that's when it hit me that Borland's proprietary graphics interface really got me into C/C++, but I don't think that any modern C/C++ flavor of compiler could duplicate those of Turbo C++ from the old days. Just reminiscing on the days when I was in your shoes.

8IronBob 04-05-2010 01:17 PM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
Actually, another good C++ tutorial comes from 3D Buzz, however, you have to be careful, since only a select number of lessons from them are free to everyone. IIRC, aren't the real meat and potato lessons premium that you have to spend $35/mo. for? Can't remember now.

Delicieuxz 04-07-2010 12:32 AM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
The first 3 volumes of the C++ tutorial series are free to watch, and thost provide a lot of material to digest. I asked in email and was told that they're planning a new C++ tutorial series.

8IronBob 04-07-2010 02:39 PM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
Good thinking. And even tho they used Visual C++ .Net for their tutorials, I'm guessing that these lessons are also compatible with Dev-C++, too. I was wanting to try them out on there, but just needed to make sure that Dev-C++ and MinGW can accept all those different flavors of C++ code (if you go back to the '90s when you had Borland, Watcom, Visual C++, DJGPP, and such that had their own brands of C++ code that weren't compatible with one another, you know where I'm going with this). IIRC, Borland's code was proprietary, especially under DOS using their graphical system. Not too sure if they did away with that and went with more universal C++ code now or not.

Delicieuxz 04-12-2010 06:05 AM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
Another good quick-reference resource that also serves as a great memory trainer with its summary-style teaching is programmingvideotutorials.com. They now offer all of their tutorials free to watch on youtube.

peoplessi 04-21-2010 08:01 AM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
That's actually really cool site now that it's free ;)

8IronBob 04-22-2010 04:53 PM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
True...guess Jason Busby isn't the only good video training tool genius around, and even tho 3D Buzz does have SOME free material for C++, I'm guessing the one Delicieuxz linked to would actually be more favorable.
Consequently, I haven't really been able to tell what percentage of those lessons on 3DB are really available to just anyone. Some you do have to sign up $35/mo. to learn from, iirc...can't remember how many lessons were considered "premium" now.

Delicieuxz 04-22-2010 08:57 PM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by peoplessi (Post 924637)
That's actually really cool site now that it's free ;)

It was good before, too. :p

Glassagate 04-25-2010 02:18 AM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Delicieuxz (Post 923599)
Another good quick-reference resource that also serves as a great memory trainer with its summary-style teaching is programmingvideotutorials.com. They now offer all of their tutorials free to watch on youtube.

Is it just me, or does that guy sound like a French Count Dracula?

Delicieuxz 04-25-2010 04:27 AM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
Sounds Scandinavian to me, bleh bleh.

Glassagate 04-29-2010 06:19 AM

Re: Language for a beginner
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 8IronBob (Post 922529)
Well, back when I was REALLY getting started in coding, it was with QBasic/QuickBASIC, as most back during those "Dark Ages of DOS" were made familiar with. Of course, that was a standard DOS 5.0 language during those days. I really say I miss those old days, that was fun to write in. That was where I *really* got into beginning to learn how to write apps. Of course, when I got Borland C++ back then from my father, that's when it hit me that Borland's proprietary graphics interface really got me into C/C++, but I don't think that any modern C/C++ flavor of compiler could duplicate those of Turbo C++ from the old days. Just reminiscing on the days when I was in your shoes.

I recall my Dad wanting my brother and I to take some time each day
to learn some QBasic. He figured that we enjoy games so much, that
we should learn how to make them. The problem was that we couldn't
keep ourselves interested with the idea of simple text outputs. I really wish that he would have pushed us more, but not enough to make us hate it.
That was back in the early 90's.


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