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Falciform 11-14-2005 10:36 PM

C++ books
 
I'm a recent physics graduate and am wanting to add programming to my list of skills, so I'm wondering if any of you have any advise on a good C++ book to learn from. I'm learning C right now (three days into it and I'm on logic statements, while, do while, if, reading and writing to and from files, etc) and I think I'm going to move to C++ after getting all the basics down. A good book that goes through things progressively with exercises (like homework) to drive the points home is what I'm looking for.

After that I was thinking of delving into game programming some to add some flavor. Any suggestions on books for that?

I appreciate you help!

dark_angel 11-15-2005 02:10 AM

Re: C++ books
 
If you want to be a proficient C++ programmer I recommend you to get C++ Primer Plus book. Excellent one for novice programmers.

What are you waiting for, you have 10 days to finish reading it http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthread...mlins/wink.gif

DudeMiester 11-15-2005 11:10 PM

Re: C++ books
 
afaik an earlier edition of that book is what got me started with C++.

dark_angel 11-16-2005 12:19 AM

Re: C++ books
 
The two books that got me into OOP/UML and C# are Sams C# Primer plus and Apress Beginning C# Objects: From Concepts to Code. Two excellent books!

JackpotDen 11-16-2005 12:32 PM

Re: C++ books
 
I;m currently learning C++ with "C++ For dummies". Nice disk with everything in, and the writer has a sense of humour.

Kristian Joensen 11-16-2005 05:15 PM

Re: C++ books
 
I'am curious why C++, do you enjoy writing unnecessary and unreadable code ?

JackpotDen 11-16-2005 05:39 PM

Re: C++ books
 
Quote:

Kristian Joensen said:
I'am curious why C++, do you enjoy writing unnecessary and unreadable code ?

Game companies ask for that?

Quote:

Rare asks for:
GAMES PROGRAMMERS
Must be self-motivated, creative and skilled in C/C++, with strong intellectual horsepower and the ability to rapidly comprehend new technologies. Also vital is the passion to make successful games and commitment to go the extra mile to do so.


DudeMiester 11-16-2005 09:29 PM

Re: C++ books
 
Quote:

Kristian Joensen said:
I'am curious why C++, do you enjoy writing unnecessary and unreadable code ?

If you write well that isn't the case. Assuming you speak from experiance, you must be a poor programmer. If you use good form and comment appropriately, it's no more un-readable then Java.

I mean your point is a stupid as me saying, you shouldn't speak Faroese, as it's an unnecessary and unreadable language.

dark_angel 11-17-2005 12:51 AM

Re: C++ books
 
Quote:

Kristian Joensen said:
I'am curious why C++, do you enjoy writing unnecessary and unreadable code ?

C++/C# are high level languages. Developers tend to use comments to make the code more understandble ( for reusing purposes).

Get a C++/C# book, start reading it and you will see the wide use of such language.

Unless you want us to code using the good old binary language http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthread...mlins/wink.gif

consonant 11-17-2005 08:20 AM

Re: C++ books
 
Quote:

Kristian Joensen said:
I'am curious why C++, do you enjoy writing unnecessary and unreadable code ?

Well it seems to be the industry standard on top of what everyone else has said. I mean there are many many interesting projects you can get into if you know c or c++:

HL2 SDK, Duke3d source, Shadow warrior source, Unreal script, Doom3 SDK, a lot of indie developers seem to like C# an C++ as well so if you want get into indie game development, learning c++ would be a safe bet, etc.

A lot of languages have things in common with the c syntax too, so it's a good base if you can tackle it.

Not sure why he would start with C and then go to C++ though. I suppose that's one way to go about it..

Kristian Joensen 11-17-2005 08:33 AM

Re: C++ books
 
Some of you guys seem to be misunderstanding me. My problem with C/C++ isn't the fact the they are high level languages it is the fact the they belong to the curly bracket family and lack verbosity and also that they lack an IDE like Delphi(I know there are C/C++ IDE's it is just that they aren't like Delphi).

I often get a headache from reading C code, that is not so with

This means you have to write a whole lot of code inorder do say even get the first window on screen.

With Delphi you don't have to write one line of code to do that. Therby truly benefiting from object oriented design wheter or not you write object oriented code.

But you certainly can write object oriented code with it since like C++ it has got support for objects/classes built in the language.

Consonant, Unrealscript is a language in and of it self. Sure it is similar in ways to C/C++ but it is different in one to me very important way it is a more verbose/wordy language.

consonant 11-17-2005 09:26 AM

Re: C++ books
 
Quote:

also that they lack an IDE like Delphi(I know there are C/C++ IDE's it is just that they aren't like Delphi).


I'm sure that there are C/C++ IDEs out there that are hideous and incredibly annoying too. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthread...ins/tongue.gif

Quote:

This means you have to write a whole lot of code inorder do say even get the first window on screen.

With Delphi you don't have to write one line of code to do that. Therby truly benefiting from object oriented design wheter or not you write object oriented code.


If I'm not mistaken, Borland has an IDE for C++ that let's you drag and drop to construct a window and it will generate the code for it too.

Quote:

Consonant, Unrealscript is a language in and of it self. Sure it is similar in ways to C/C++ but it is different in one to me very important way it is a more verbose/wordy language.

As you say it's similar in ways to C++, my point was that if you learn C++ it would probably open the door to Unreal script (amongst other things) as well. At any rate that was just one example in a sea of examples I could list.

In short: "why would anyone want to learn C/C++?" Because it seems to be the industry standard for games. Not only that but if you can manage C++ you could probably manage other languages without too much trouble aswell.

It's been a while since I've touched any Pascal code. You mentioned the brackets, I know pascal has an if then end if, etc. Which to me is unnecessary clutter http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthread...lins/smile.gif
If I see a "{" I know there will inevitably be a "}", or if there's a "begin" there should be an "end". It really makes no difference in readability to me.

In the end it's all about your goals and if you're choosing the right language for the job, right?

Kristian Joensen 11-17-2005 10:23 AM

Re: C++ books
 
Well I haven't actually done any Unrealscript coding but from what I see it shouldn't be a too hard a language it doesn't look like the code to hard to read despite its brackets.

rg3 11-17-2005 10:25 AM

Re: C++ books
 
Quote:

Kristian Joensen said:
Some of you guys seem to be misunderstanding me. My problem with C/C++...

Emphasis mine. You having a problem with C/C++, having headaches or being unable to read it and considering it unecessary means exactly nothing. BTW, I don't think C/C++ are really high high level languages. Sure they're above assembler and allow a good level of abstraction (higher in the C++ case), but you can still program an OS with them, which means that you are still able remain quite low level. That's why there's usually a need for a library to build graphical applications with C or C++ that leave you higher above the system, and sometimes they need quite a lot of code. Fortunatelly, there are IDEs that will code it for you. No need to write a single line with them. You don't like them? Huh, fine, but that's your opinion. No need for that flaming rant, IMHO.

Kristian Joensen 11-17-2005 10:29 AM

Re: C++ books
 
No flaming here I was just asking a question, but what IDE's are you talking about ?

Falciform 11-17-2005 11:01 AM

Re: C++ books
 
My reasoning is that C/C++ seem to be fairly standard languages and if someone knows them they can fairly easily move to another.

So there have been a few suggestions on C++ books, are there any suggestions for game/graphics programming books?

rg3 11-17-2005 11:13 AM

Re: C++ books
 
Quote:

Kristian Joensen said:
No flaming here I was just asking a question, but what IDE's are you talking about ?

From Builder to the Qt Designer. There are many and you don't need to write a single line of code to create and display a window.

dark_angel 11-17-2005 11:33 AM

Re: C++ books
 
Beginning C++ Game Programming from paperback.

consonant 11-17-2005 01:08 PM

Re: C++ books
 
Quote:

Kristian Joensen said:
No flaming here I was just asking a question, but what IDE's are you talking about ?

I named one in my post. The C++ IDE from Borland, C++ Builder if I recall correctly. And what about MFC?

Kristian Joensen 11-17-2005 02:40 PM

Re: C++ books
 
What about it ? You are the expert I certainly want to learn. And Yes I believe you might be correct about C++ Builder, that would seem likely, but has it got as free alternative like Lazarus is for Delphi ?

Lazarus is a Delphi clone for the free software/open source pascal compiler Free Pascal.

DudeMiester 11-17-2005 10:49 PM

Re: C++ books
 
If you want a C++ IDE you can use Visual C++, Code::Blocks, Borland, and many more. There are many IDEs for C++, so I don't know what you are talking about. Also, it would be absurd for the language itself to define the development environment, as the IDE has little to do with the language itself, it just edits it.

Second, about the window thing. Use a library. You can find many with all those functions prepackaged for you. C++ is designed to be scalable, which means that it must allow you to do anything you want. That means you must be able to create windows by yourself, if you so desire. It also means that you start with a blank slate, and anything extra you must explicitly import or, in C++ lingo, "#include". It all makes perfectly good sense, if you care to pay attention. Then again, for some, the extreme flexibilty and choice it offers is a bit overwhelming to some.

Samji 11-18-2005 06:29 AM

Re: C++ books
 
C++ : A Beginner's Guide by Herbert Schildt. I have that myself and its a pretty comprehensive guide. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthread...mlins/wink.gif

As for IDE, I found Dev C++ to be pretty good.

Kristian Joensen 11-18-2005 10:31 AM

Re: C++ books
 
DudeMiester I KNOW there are many IDE's for C++ but try downloading Lazarus to see what I mean.

Blue Demon 11-19-2005 10:46 PM

Re: C++ books
 
Quote:

Kristian Joensen said:
DudeMiester I KNOW there are many IDE's for C++ but try downloading Lazarus to see what I mean.

I once tried to program in Delphi, but I didn't liked its pascal'ish syntax.

I think that was a mistake learning to program with C++, i am so spoiled with the brackets http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthread...ins/tongue.gif.

PlayfulPuppy 11-21-2005 06:59 PM

Re: C++ books
 
If you're interested in programming for games, then check out C++ for Game Programmers by Noel Llopis (Charles River Media). It's what got me into C++ in the first place, and talks about it in such a way that you're not just learning the language and left to your own devices, but shows you exactly how the concepts are related to games development.

Well worth it.

8IronBob 11-23-2005 12:50 PM

Re: C++ books
 
Well, I really used to like Borland C++ 4.5 quite a lot, at least that lets you program graphics and games with far better ease than any other IDE I've ever used. Of course, I dunno if Borland's doing as much of that as they used to. Dev-C++ is really decent on top of that, I must admit. However, for C++ books, I've been all over the map with those in recent years. However, the best that I've ever used, whether it was from a Barnes and Noble, or from the County Library, was "Teach Yourself C++ in 21 Days." Very comprehensive, yet very interesting program examples, and works with almost any IDE/Compiler on the market today. I'd never do too much without those types of books. Also, C++ for the Absolute Beginner gets my vote, too. Two of the best books I've ever came to use.

Kristian Joensen 11-23-2005 01:27 PM

Re: C++ books
 
Teach Yourself C++ in 21 Days is available here.

8IronBob 11-23-2005 03:14 PM

Re: C++ books
 
Oh yeah, THAT'S the stuff I remember. The Teach Yourself C in 21 Days was cool, also. With both of those hand in hand, with most compilers and IDEs backwards compatible to both C++ and C, those books will most certainly keep you well occupied throughout your programming days. I've seen some better books, but for the budget-goer, I'd say those two.

MentalSentinel 11-24-2005 02:53 PM

Re: C++ books
 
Teach Yourself C++ in 21 Days is the best C++ book I've read. The worst one would be C++ for dummies, IMO.

8IronBob 11-25-2005 09:49 AM

Re: C++ books
 
Quote:

MentalSentinel said:
Teach Yourself C++ in 21 Days is the best C++ book I've read. The worst one would be C++ for dummies, IMO.

Yeah, not too many interesting example codes coming from Dan Gookin, I don't believe, or was it Wallace Wang? Whatever, I would agree with SAMS' books to be the best. If I could afford it, I'd go with one of those BIG books on C++, at least there you'd have a chance to get into some BIG example programs. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthread...mlins/grin.gif

JackpotDen 11-29-2005 06:33 PM

Re: C++ books
 
its steve randy davis, and its a bit too late for me... but its going good for me.


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