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Old 11-14-2006, 02:25 PM   #41
Odin
 

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Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
Quote:
Originally Posted by mon2908 View Post
I think Windows Vista will be Microsofts operating system for the next five to six years. I would not really expect it to work out of the box on todays hardware really fast if they designed it with the next generation computer hardware in mind.{1}

It could be also possible that they're going the apple way and produce their own hardware equipment in future.{2} I mean it becomes an annoying trend that every company produces own standards and try to bind customers to their products. I mean the Fritzchip (TPM) is something that died, maybe Microsoft is going to make it unavoidable in their hardware. But this is speculation.

It's something I think about if I compare the prices for the XBox 360 and Windows Vista. It appears that Microsoft tries to push interested gamers to use their consoles instead of a windows pc.{3} Maybe the Microsoft PC will come up next.
If you compare that you get nearly fitheen MacOS operating systems for one Windows Vista license, that could be a step Microsoft rethinks to get more profit with their products. They would also have less trouble by getting the very last performance out of their hardware and do not need to invest in compatibility.{4}
1. That would be a very dumb move. Not to mention Vista runs fine on older PCs on minimal, and a "barebones" version of Vista without the extra bells and whistles is available for this purpose, mostly for 2nd and 3rd world countries where not everybody has a computer, and the computers that do exist are 4 years old.

2. What would they have to gain? They would put tons of hardware manufacturers out of business, and Microsoft would lose a lot of money on monopoly charges. Not to mention that the only people that use "Microsoft Hardware" that don't use Windows are Linux/FreeBSD/Whatever users, and they are a negligible portion of computer users.

3. Uhh, Vista is meant to be much more than a gaming front-end. Vista has many more uses, including desktop publishing, digital art, general office use, and more. The 360 is for one purpose, namely gaming. No wonder Vista costs more, it does more.

4. Not investing in compatibility would be a very dumb move, see 1.
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Old 11-14-2006, 03:24 PM   #42
mon2908
Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odin View Post
1. That would be a very dumb move. Not to mention Vista runs fine on older PCs on minimal, and a "barebones" version of Vista without the extra bells and whistles is available for this purpose, mostly for 2nd and 3rd world countries where not everybody has a computer, and the computers that do exist are 4 years old.

2. What would they have to gain? They would put tons of hardware manufacturers out of business, and Microsoft would lose a lot of money on monopoly charges. Not to mention that the only people that use "Microsoft Hardware" that don't use Windows are Linux/FreeBSD/Whatever users, and they are a negligible portion of computer users.

3. Uhh, Vista is meant to be much more than a gaming front-end. Vista has many more uses, including desktop publishing, digital art, general office use, and more. The 360 is for one purpose, namely gaming. No wonder Vista costs more, it does more.

4. Not investing in compatibility would be a very dumb move, see 1.

1. Then I would be really interested why people already claiming that it way to slow for their hardware. Mostly those people who claim to have the latest and fastest machine. (I cannot Imagine that it all depends on worse drivers, if so Microsoft has made something terribly wrong with their backwards compatibility.) If you see it as dumb it is a statement I would agree to, but I have seen enough stupid actions in my life now to imagine everything.

2. So, that I would say is something they are doing right now. Imitating Apples Ipod won't allow other vendors to establish their own products using a Windows PC to transfer files on their equipment. Can't remember that DRM is something that is equal on every system (Apple, Windows), so how do you transfer such files on a plain MP3 player? Most users claim that the MacOS is the better os, and even if they use a BSD base system for their graphical frontend (which is free) must they make a lot more money with hardware sales than with their software sales. How could you explain yourself the lower costs you have to pay for that os compared to a Windows Vista license? I mean they also have a development team for their os they must pay for? I think they compensate their development costs with their hardware sales if you ask me.

3. Problem I see here is that you'll get for nearly every task you describe open source software that will do exactly the same things. OpenOffice (which runs on every os), Scribus (open source dtp program [Win/Lin]), Inkscape, Gimp, Blender (Digital Art [Win/Lin]). I could claim now to find for every task an open source equivalent and it is hard to reinvent such products. What I mean is that you probably won't buy the latest MS-Office product if you are familar with the functionality of your old version. Games are different, you'll probably lose interest on old ones and look which one you'll buy next, mainly to experience a new storyline or enjoy better graphics. An own closed system would allow Microsoft to take fees if third party vendors want to develop software for their platform, they could control if they allow another office system. (They are already doing this if you decide for Xbox game development (heard the fee is around 100,00 Dollar for a year))

4. Indeed.
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Old 11-14-2006, 03:47 PM   #43
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Duke Nukem Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
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Originally Posted by Babe View Post
Well I can see in many places now that Vista final is already out in the internet and it has already been sucessfully cracked. This bring to me atleast one question - why do Microsoft want to delay the official sales date to January 30 ? The more they delay the more they loose.
As Bill Gates once said, "At least they're pirating Windows."
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Old 11-15-2006, 07:45 AM   #44
IHerman
Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
Our company sells software and nothing is more flattering than finding a cracked version on the net.

So far this hasn't happened yet though.
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Old 11-16-2006, 12:31 PM   #45
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Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
I plan to stick with XP for as long as possible.
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Old 11-16-2006, 07:12 PM   #46
IceColdDuke
Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
VISTA RTM X86 and X64 ON MSDN.

Quote:
Windows Vista (x86) - DVD (English)

Date/Time Posted
2006-11-16 21:56:18 (UTC)
File
en_windows_vista_x86_dvd_X12-34293.iso ISO-9660 DVD Image
File Size
2555 MB
SHA-1 Hash
b71e04564ca22e4d9928e59298eff87cf62b382b
Description
This single download includes the following Windows Vista editions:

Windows Vista Business

Windows Vista Business N

Windows Vista Home Basic

Windows Vista Home Basic N

Windows Vista Home Premium

Windows Vista Starter

Windows Vista Ultimate

The product key used to install Windows Vista will determine which edition will be installed. The product keys used to install Windows Vista Business N, Windows Vista Home Basic N, and Windows Vista Starter are not currently available.
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Old 11-16-2006, 07:59 PM   #47
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Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
^ Is that a cracked file or something, or can you download it off MSDN, or what?
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Old 11-16-2006, 09:40 PM   #48
IceColdDuke
Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
Its on MSDN, and you can download it : ). Select Connect testers can download this build as well but only MSDN has product keys connect users will have to wait till next week.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg msdn.jpg (102.9 KB, 18 views)
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Old 11-16-2006, 11:32 PM   #49
Yatta

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Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
Oh, sweet. That explains how the RTM version surfaced on NFO Source. What do you have to do to subscribe to MSDN? Is there a fee? Are the product keys the same as those you'd find on the packaging?
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Old 11-16-2006, 11:45 PM   #50
IceColdDuke
Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
It costs money per year, if you get MSDN Premiem with Visual Studio Team Suite its like 2500 a year, and you get 10 licenses of EVERYTHING microsoft has made, for development and testing purposes, except for Office were your allowed one license to do non development stuff with. I think MSDN OS were you only get the OS's is like 700 a year but thats close to the same cost as the Ultimate SKU and you get 10 licenses of ALL the sku's.

The product keys are different, retail keys only have one activation with a 30 day grace period....MSDN keys have 10 activations(you can call up MSDN support for more), and you get a 60 day grace period but the software is the same in the retail packaging.
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:26 PM   #51
Scotty

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Arrow Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
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Originally Posted by Phayzon View Post
I liked Win95's copy protection, a place for a product key, but you can leave it blank and continue the installation
It's possible to install Windows Vista with no product key as well, but as the product key determines the version installed, it's important to select the right version during installation in this scenario.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mon2908 View Post
It could be also possible that they're going the apple way and produce their own hardware equipment in future. I mean it becomes an annoying trend that every company produces own standards and try to bind customers to their products. I mean the Fritzchip (TPM) is something that died, maybe Microsoft is going to make it unavoidable in their hardware. But this is speculation.
TPM 1.2 is the preferred way for setting up BitLocker drive encryption in Vista Ultimate and Enterprise, though it is possible to set up BitLocker with only a USB flash drive.
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Old 11-21-2006, 01:48 PM   #52
mon2908
Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
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Originally Posted by Scotty View Post
TPM 1.2 is the preferred way for setting up BitLocker drive encryption in Vista Ultimate and Enterprise, though it is possible to set up BitLocker with only a USB flash drive.
So, another question, as far as I am informed is TPM bundled with the hardware.
I mean securtiy based on hard- and software. So it seems to be nearly impossible to take an encrypted drive attach it in another machine and gain access to the files.

So what's the great difference to use an encryption tool such as truecrypt instead?
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Old 11-21-2006, 03:06 PM   #53
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Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
If the BitLocker key isn't present (whether the key is stored in the TPM or a flash drive), Windows Vista won't start. However, there is a prompt to enter a recovery key to bypass normal startup, which effectively tells the attacker that the drive is encrypted with BitLocker. As such, anyone that really wanted to get into the drive could put a gun to my head and make me hand over the recovery key.

According to the TrueCrypt site, there is no outward sign that anything is encrypted. If the container files are renamed to blend in with the rest of the data on the drive, an attacker may never even know the encrypted data exists.

However, if the attacker boots the drive and finds TrueCrypt on it, he can still come back and put a gun to my head and make me tell him the names of the container files. If the attacker is smart enough to know that TrueCrypt can hide volumes inside of volumes, he can make me hand over the keys for that, too.

-Scotty

...as long as potential attackers know as much about our systems as we do, it will always be possible to break in...
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Old 11-23-2006, 09:00 PM   #54
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Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
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Originally Posted by Yatta View Post
Puhhhleeeze, who are they kidding, they probably just reclassified all the viruses as malware. Lets see them browse a few thumbnail porno galleries and then see how well thier PC works.
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Old 11-24-2006, 09:39 PM   #55
mon2908
Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
Who will develop any viruses for an os nobody wants on his machine.

I've read many forum news now and most point out that it is, to expensive, the EULA sucks, it's even to big for any CDImage, it's overloaded, user interface is to different to work efficent, it's to slow, even for high-end machines, no appropriate drivers, it's from Microsoft and it definately will flop like Windows ME.

Is Windows a Virus?

No, Windows is not a virus. Here's what viruses do:

* They replicate quickly - okay, Windows does that.

* Viruses use up valuable system resources, slowing down the system as they do so - okay, Windows does that.

* Viruses will, from time to time, trash your hard disk - okay, Windows does that too.

* Viruses are usually carried, unknown to the user, along with valuable programs and systems. Sigh... Windows does that, too.

* Viruses will occasionally make the user suspect their system is too slow (see 2) and the user will buy new hardware. Yup, that's with Windows, too.

Until now it seems Windows is a virus but there are fundamental differences:Viruses are well supported by their authors, are running on most systems, their program code is fast, compact and efficient and they tend to become more sophisticated as they mature.

So Windows is not a virus.

It's a bug.
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Last edited by mon2908; 11-24-2006 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 11-24-2006, 11:05 PM   #56
Yatta

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Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
I'm not saying Vista is great, but you're posting flame bait. The Vista EULA isn't much different from XP's, if not any better, at least from what I've heard. It's not too big for any CD image. A CD image can be any size, it's just that you'd need a DVD to fit it all in, which is acceptable considering hard drives these days are much larger than they ever were. From my experience, it's overloaded with useful applications such as a DVD burning program or a calendar. There are no appropriate drivers for it because it's not even out yet! And even so, there ARE beta drivers from many different manufacturers including Creative and nVidia. It's not slow for high-end machines--that's a myth. Even if it were, you should take into account that it's a next-generation operating system intended to run on next-gen hardware.
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Old 11-25-2006, 02:08 AM   #57
mon2908
Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
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Originally Posted by Yatta View Post
The Vista EULA isn't much different from XP's, if not any better, at least from what I've heard.
That's the reason why I removed Windows XP from my host and installed something better than this os.
Even if Microsoft altered their license and made it less painful for the user. I will not agree to it.

1. Self-limiting software
2. Vanishing functionality through invalidation
3. Removal of media capabilities
4. Problem-solving prohibited
5. Limited mobility
6. One transfer only (I heard it is removed now, for Retail version. Not for OEM)
7. Restrictions on your rights to use MPEG-4 video

to go in detail read here http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archiv..._the_user.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yatta View Post
Even if it were, you should take into account that it's a next-generation operating system intended to run on next-gen hardware.
Even if it is the os for next generation computers, why should I allow an operating system to suck this new performance away. I mean, if I go and buy a new computer, new harddrive, cpu, graphics adapter, ram modules a. s. o. why should I use them for the new operating system? I mean, if I go for faster/better equipment I won't spend my money for the os but for the applications I want to run with it. I want a slim os, I want an interface that supports my hardware and allows me to run all my prefered applications with the best support of my existing hardware. I do not see how Windows Vista will fullfill my needs. It is overbloated. Even if there are more useful applications now, I do not need them, because I as user decide what I want to work with. I do not need an installed IE7 if I am going for Firefox, I do not need write or a calculator if I have an Office installed on my machine. I do not need restrictive Microsoft burning tools if I call Nero my own. So why should I use my diskspace with some crap I do not need and why should I change to an os that eats away the system performance to look really nice, if everything else works with less performance?
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Old 11-25-2006, 12:03 PM   #58
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Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
Then stick to Linux and stop bothing us.
Pretty much everyone here has decided if they will stick with XP, upgrade to Vista, or switch to Linux. They have done that BEFORE your Linux praise/Windows bashing.
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Old 11-25-2006, 12:54 PM   #59
mon2908
Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
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Originally Posted by Phayzon View Post
Then stick to Linux and stop bothing us.
Pretty much everyone here has decided if they will stick with XP, upgrade to Vista, or switch to Linux. They have done that BEFORE your Linux praise/Windows bashing.
I think you are right, I still wonder why the EULA is not part of the discussion. Seems nobody cares what's in it and how it restricts user rights. I am pretty interested how you see it. Do you agree to it? Do you ignore it? What makes you favour an os like Vista if you still own XP (I asume you are a XP user). What makes you think that it is better than XP. I mean W2K was great, XP was, for my taste to colorful and looked like a playground for kids (I know you can alter it). Vista, I personally dislike it. I think I gave enough reasons why.
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Old 11-25-2006, 04:16 PM   #60
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Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
Quote:
Originally Posted by mon2908 View Post
I think you are right, I still wonder why the EULA is not part of the discussion. Seems nobody cares what's in it and how it restricts user rights. I am pretty interested how you see it. Do you agree to it? Do you ignore it? What makes you favour an os like Vista if you still own XP (I asume you are a XP user). What makes you think that it is better than XP. I mean W2K was great, XP was, for my taste to colorful and looked like a playground for kids (I know you can alter it). Vista, I personally dislike it. I think I gave enough reasons why.
If you dislike it then just go away and use your Linux. If we prefer Windows, it's not really your business.
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Old 11-25-2006, 04:24 PM   #61
Odin
 

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Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
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Originally Posted by mon2908 View Post
words
Holy shit shut up.
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Old 11-25-2006, 04:31 PM   #62
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Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
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Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Holy shit shut up.
Ive wanted to say that but wasnt sure if I'd get yelled at or not.
Thanks
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Old 11-25-2006, 04:37 PM   #63
Odin
 

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Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
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Originally Posted by Phayzon View Post
Ive wanted to say that but wasnt sure if I'd get yelled at or not.
Thanks
It's really gone too far. I feel like mon2908 is seriously trolling any thread that has any connection to Windows Vista, Linux, or DRM. Sure, I'm an offensive poster (I've gotten two warnings from ADM for it) but I'm not derailing threads at this level.
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Old 11-25-2006, 06:42 PM   #64
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Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
mon2908 must be a new Trojan/Virus/Malware thing.

But anyway... I recently looked at some computers and they had upgrade to Vista plans. Like if you got Windows XP Home with your new computer for $50 later you can go to Home Premium and if you had Prof. you get a free upgrade to Enterprise.
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Old 11-25-2006, 06:52 PM   #65
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Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
There may be a big problem with those "Windows Vista Upgrade" discs, though.

Prior NT/2K/XP upgrade discs were bootable, and could be used for a clean install, repair install, boot the recovery console, etc. Posts from Microsoft on the Microsoft newsgroups are indicating that the Vista Upgrade discs won't be bootable, that an upgrade has to be started from within an existing installation of Windows 2000 or XP, and that a clean install can only be performed to a different partition than the one 2000/XP is currently installed on.

From what I've seen so far, nobody with access to Vista RTM (MSDN, TechNet, technical beta testers) has been able to get a Vista RTM Upgrade disc yet to confirm any of this.

I've got several threads on my watch list, but it's starting to look like I'll have to cough up the extra money for a full version of Windows Vista. If what I've read ends up being true, then this really sucks.
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Old 11-25-2006, 06:58 PM   #66
tony
Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
"Vista, I personally dislike it. I think I gave enough reasons why."

Then stop re-hashing those reasons in every thread that mentions Vista, Linux, DRM, etc.

If want to make this an issue about the EULA, make it an issue about the EULA. You only turn it into a opening to tell us how Linux is, in your opinion, better than Vista.

As for the EULA, nothing in it restricts what I will use my machine for. At most, the "limitations" are a very small hassle. The EULA is not talked about because, whether you like it or not, most of us really dont care. Myself, the "evil" parts of the EULA do not bother me at all; at most, they're barely even a hassle. The EULA is a very small issue when it comes to poeple's decision of using Vista or not. You need to drop it.

The pro-linux trolling tirade has gotten very annoying. It's gotten to the point where I'll just skip over most of your posts. They're most always off topic, too. Please stop.
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Old 11-25-2006, 07:04 PM   #67
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Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony View Post
"Vista, I personally dislike it. I think I gave enough reasons why."

Then stop re-hashing those reasons in every thread that mentions Vista, Linux, DRM, etc.

If want to make this an issue about the EULA, make it an issue about the EULA. You only turn it into a opening to tell us how Linux is, in your opinion, better than Vista.

As for the EULA, nothing in it restricts what I will use my machine for. At most, the "limitations" are a very small hassle. The EULA is not talked about because, whether you like it or not, most of us really dont care. Myself, the "evil" parts of the EULA do not bother me at all; at most, they're barely even a hassle. The EULA is a very small issue when it comes to poeple's decision of using Vista or not. You need to drop it.

The pro-linux trolling tirade has gotten very annoying. It's gotten to the point where I'll just skip over most of your posts. They're most always off topic, too. Please stop.
QFT

I personally am one to not care about the EULA. If somewhere in there it says I cant do something, too bad, I'll do it anyway most likely. Its not like they're going to track me, of all people, down to arrest me for installing a piece of software on a second computer of my own, or whatever the EULA says I cant do.
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Old 11-25-2006, 09:50 PM   #68
ZuljinRaynor

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Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty View Post
There may be a big problem with those "Windows Vista Upgrade" discs, though.

Prior NT/2K/XP upgrade discs were bootable, and could be used for a clean install, repair install, boot the recovery console, etc. Posts from Microsoft on the Microsoft newsgroups are indicating that the Vista Upgrade discs won't be bootable, that an upgrade has to be started from within an existing installation of Windows 2000 or XP, and that a clean install can only be performed to a different partition than the one 2000/XP is currently installed on.

From what I've seen so far, nobody with access to Vista RTM (MSDN, TechNet, technical beta testers) has been able to get a Vista RTM Upgrade disc yet to confirm any of this.

I've got several threads on my watch list, but it's starting to look like I'll have to cough up the extra money for a full version of Windows Vista. If what I've read ends up being true, then this really sucks.
Well, let's hope for the best.
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Old 11-26-2006, 06:49 AM   #69
mon2908
Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odin View Post
It's really gone too far. I feel like mon2908 is seriously trolling any thread that has any connection to Windows Vista, Linux, or DRM. Sure, I'm an offensive poster (I've gotten two warnings from ADM for it) but I'm not derailing threads at this level.
Calm down Odin, I know now everything I wanted to know.
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Old 11-27-2006, 08:16 AM   #70
Joe Siegler
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Re: Windows Vista Released to Manufacturing - November 8, 2006 !!, RTM Build 6000
Quote:
Originally Posted by mon2908 View Post
Who will develop any viruses for an os nobody wants on his machine.

I've read many forum news now and most point out that it is, to expensive, the EULA sucks, it's even to big for any CDImage, it's overloaded, user interface is to different to work efficent, it's to slow, even for high-end machines, no appropriate drivers, it's from Microsoft and it definately will flop like Windows ME.

Is Windows a Virus?

No, Windows is not a virus. Here's what viruses do:

* They replicate quickly - okay, Windows does that.

* Viruses use up valuable system resources, slowing down the system as they do so - okay, Windows does that.

* Viruses will, from time to time, trash your hard disk - okay, Windows does that too.

* Viruses are usually carried, unknown to the user, along with valuable programs and systems. Sigh... Windows does that, too.

* Viruses will occasionally make the user suspect their system is too slow (see 2) and the user will buy new hardware. Yup, that's with Windows, too.

Until now it seems Windows is a virus but there are fundamental differences:Viruses are well supported by their authors, are running on most systems, their program code is fast, compact and efficient and they tend to become more sophisticated as they mature.

So Windows is not a virus.

It's a bug.
Whoops. This kind of remark and any discussion that grows from it really has no place.

Linux vs Windows is quickly headed to the "auto delete" subject - which means that it cannot be discussed rationally, so there's no point in allowing those subjects to be on the forums. Congrats.

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