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Old 02-12-2007, 02:29 PM   #241
8IronBob

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Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
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Originally Posted by Inanimate Carbon Rod View Post
Aka 'Service Pack 2'
Hehe, good bye Linux until 2012, when Microsoft does it again with another big OS after that...
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Old 02-12-2007, 03:23 PM   #242
Inanimate Carbon Rod

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Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
Something that I found cool, is that unlike in XP AVI file thumbnails are now no longer taken from the first frame of the file. The thumbnails are taken from some random point in the file. So looking at my files is considerably more interesting instead of looking at the typical black frame.
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Old 02-12-2007, 05:46 PM   #243
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Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
Quote:
Originally Posted by IHerman View Post
It appears someone at Microsoft said that Vienna, the new Microsoft OS, will appear in 2009 already, and it will be an entirely new OS. What the hell?
Ever since they dropped the new file system and the roadmap of a totally new OS to replace XP built from the ground up. MS turned Vista into the next vesion of Windows ME.

The only difference is that Vista will be put on more computers than ME ever was.

I have heard MS spokes people say. "It definately won't be as long before a new version of Windows as it has between XP - Vista" and 2009 has been mentioned a few times.

Vista is a more secure version of XP but architecturally not very different. Still using the DLL method with all those nice 'can't find xxx.dll' messages and you still can't easily move software from one location to another. Even notepad will not run if you move it from the windows folder!

Yes if you have all the right drivers and your software runs on it Vista is better than XP. But mark my words this is not the version of Windows that will replace XP.

Probably the reason MS is touting it as the biggest Windows release is they know by the next one in 2009 the competition will have caught up and there could even be more players in the field.

Also the big advantages 'More secure' & 'reboot less' were used in XP and found to be untrue. We are still waiting to see if it's true in Vista

Has anyone with vista had to reboot after a software install yet?
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Old 02-12-2007, 06:18 PM   #244
Inanimate Carbon Rod

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Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
Quote:
Originally Posted by IwantMORE View Post
Ever since they dropped the new file system and the roadmap of a totally new OS to replace XP built from the ground up. MS turned Vista into the next vesion of Windows ME.

The only difference is that Vista will be put on more computers than ME ever was.

I have heard MS spokes people say. "It definately won't be as long before a new version of Windows as it has between XP - Vista" and 2009 has been mentioned a few times.

Vista is a more secure version of XP but architecturally not very different.
Windows XP was not very different from Windows 2000, just prettier looking.
Windows 98 (and SE) was not very different from Windows 95, just prettier looking.
Windows ME was not very different from Windows 98se, just a bit prettier.
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Old 02-12-2007, 06:47 PM   #245
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Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
I disagree with those statements.
98 SE added built in support for usb devices
ME was a cluster**** in general, broke all types of stuff
2000 was the first version that was fairly stable and could be used by home users
XP was an expansion of 2000, fairly solid and reliable and could run for weeks at a time.
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Old 02-12-2007, 07:35 PM   #246
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Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
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Originally Posted by IwantMORE View Post
Has anyone with vista had to reboot after a software install yet?
Only after driver installations.
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Old 02-12-2007, 07:35 PM   #247
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Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
nevermind
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Old 02-13-2007, 12:15 AM   #248
8IronBob

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Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
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Originally Posted by Phayzon View Post
Only after driver installations.
Well, Norton IS 2007 made me reboot.
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Old 02-13-2007, 03:49 AM   #249
IHerman
Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
Software installs asks me to reboot sometimes on XP, but most of the time this isn't necessary. Drivers ask for a reboot sometimes too, also not necessary.

People are whining about "Missing xxx.dll" and all the crashes of XP, while this basically never happens, apart from a few pieces of crap software that are not related to MS.

I really couldn't care less about restarting my PC once every few months though.

But if Vista is the new ME, and Vienna will be all new, I'll wait. Worked with ME last week for the first time, it is horrible. By the time I might be thinking about switching I hope there's more news about Vienna. Then again if they plan for a 2009 release this will probably become 2012. I was pretty worked up about Vista, but now I know more about it I think it's better to wait. As I become less and less demanding about my hardware, it might even take me 2 more years to get a new system. Apart from the memory I'm fine. The Core 2 isn't spectacularly faster than my 2.6Ghz Pentium 4. (looking at framerates of games and encoding of movie benchmarks it's only twice as fast.)

Wait another two years and I can buy myself a Core 80 with a 40 inch NVidia 9900XXXXXX videocard. Muahahaha.


EDIT - Loose Norton, it sucks, that why it makes you reboot. Norton's AntiVirus engine is built upon making your PC so slow any virus will think it's a 386 and run away like a constipated cow on steroids.
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Old 02-13-2007, 04:48 AM   #250
Foxy
Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
http://games.slashdot.org/games/07/02/12/2212248.shtml

Quote:
disclosure: I'm a developer at ATI and am writing this anonymously.

Vista's DRM is the fault in nearly 100% of the problems we're seeing. A game tries to output at 1280x1024 or greater and the DRM kicks in trying to downgrade the resolution. Don't blame ATI or NVIDIA, blame Microsoft for this one.
Quote:
I am not going to say who I work for, but I will say I work on drivers for one of the big two graphics card vendors.

Driver development for Vista is a nightmare. We are forced to work within rigid and sensitive specifications, wherein violations cause Windows to shut us down or restart the video subsystem entirely. In the past, delivering content to the screen was relatively straight-forward and we were free to operate as we needed to get our job done. Today, it is entirely up to Microsoft and if you dare wander outside their edicts and trigger their damned “tiltbits”, you are ****ed. Debugging this system is almost entirely blind so we are forced to play wack-a-mole all day. On the bright side, our driver code is receiving a thorough audit. In the mean time, you guys are getting the product of a rapid hackfast, intended to get something out the door to meet our marketing promises.

When Vista becomes dominant in the mainstream, all of you can expect loads of problems unless Microsoft learn to lighten up. Sure, they want to enforce standards on their platform. We all know Windows sucks largely because of how badly drivers are written, but they are doing it by screwing with us, the hardware vendors. My group knows what the hell we're doing. We would not be one of the top two if we didn't, but Microsoft are making our lives nearly impossible because they do not consider in the least what we need to make good products.

My advice: do not think you can buy either ATI or NVIDIA and expect Vista to work entirely as advertised. Wait a year. Stick with XP or buy a Mac.
Oh deer. Guess I'll wait a bit longer for a new rig. Sounds like Vista is craptacular.
Last edited by Foxy; 02-13-2007 at 04:52 AM.
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Old 02-13-2007, 06:12 AM   #251
IHerman
Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
Compatibility problems are always an issue with a new OS.

I remember a time when I tried Mandrake, couldn't get the network card to work and was advised "Why don't you write your own driver?". The sound and graphics card didn't work either, even though my sound card was an Audigy, which I consider pretty standard.

This will all work out in the end, like it did with XP. I'm not saying that's an excuse to provide people with a badly supported OS. But in a year most of these issues will be solved.

Then why didn't MS wait for another year? Well another year and you'd have the same problem. Sooner or later you have to release and deal with the problems that pop up. A bta can catch you some, but not nearly everything. Meanwhile companies keep popping out new hardware and software. Then throw the OS to the sharks and fix the remaining issues. It's quite dirty but I don't think there's any OS out there that wasn't handled this way. Except perhaps OSX, but that only needs to support 5 different components.

I'm don't see why the driver issues for an ATi card would be caused by only Vista. Videocards and software is getting more complex by the minute and a new standard will probably need time to get used to. We have a new platform for developing software here, and I yell at how much it sucks all the time. That doesn't mean it sucks, it means I need to adapt to the new stuff.

The entire DRM thing stays nasty though.
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Last edited by IHerman; 02-13-2007 at 06:15 AM.
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Old 02-13-2007, 07:36 AM   #252
IwantMORE

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Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inanimate Carbon Rod View Post
Windows XP was not very different from Windows 2000, just prettier looking.
Windows 98 (and SE) was not very different from Windows 95, just prettier looking.
Windows ME was not very different from Windows 98se, just a bit prettier.
I disagree too...

Windows 95 was MS's first attempt to make Windows look good, a big overhaul and support for much more. 98 was the polished version of 95 with all the bits they did not get into 95. Like USB and better control panel.

2000 was the first attempt to make a 'single' core version of Windows built on the NT architecture. ME was the first (bad) attempt at a home version of Windows NT.

XP was again the 'polished' version of 2000 + ME with better graphics and all products from Home - Pro using the same name. Server was still called Windows 200X.

Vista is the new version of Windows and the next one will be the polished one with all the bits they could not get into Vista.

It's the way MS works and there seems to be no sign of MS having changed it's spots. They release a big new version learn the flaws then get the next on 'almost' right.
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Old 02-13-2007, 11:34 AM   #253
8IronBob

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Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
Well, look at Linux, they go for TWO different formats, KDE and GNOME, now that's far better than just having Windows versions being built on that same NT engine with a new slap of paint on top. At least with that, you can actually design your own interface and technology with open source. I only wish that Microsoft would win over Linux users to Windows in 2009, we'll have to wait and see... MS failed to gather Mac users with Vista, thinking that it's a failed attempt to get back at Apple.
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Old 02-13-2007, 01:30 PM   #254
Kristian Joensen

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Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
Quote:
ME was the first (bad) attempt at a home version of Windows NT.
This is wrong, ME was still based on the same old 9X kernel series. Windows XP was the first consumer OS based on the NT series of kernels.
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Old 02-13-2007, 05:05 PM   #255
Inanimate Carbon Rod

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Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxy View Post
http://games.slashdot.org/games/07/02/12/2212248.shtml


Quote:
disclosure: I'm a developer at ATI and am writing this anonymously.

Vista's DRM is the fault in nearly 100% of the problems we're seeing. A game tries to output at 1280x1024 or greater and the DRM kicks in trying to downgrade the resolution. Don't blame ATI or NVIDIA, blame Microsoft for this one.

Oh deer. Guess I'll wait a bit longer for a new rig. Sounds like Vista is craptacular.

Umm I run my games at 1680x1050 (with ATI card) and have not had a problem.
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Old 02-13-2007, 05:18 PM   #256
Kristian Joensen

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Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
Just because you haven't had any problems doesn't mean that they don't exist.
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Old 02-13-2007, 05:19 PM   #257
Inanimate Carbon Rod

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Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
Well if one were to check out what is linked to in the article he linked too... one would find this page.

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?threadid=213511

Apparently most arent having too many problems.
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Old 02-13-2007, 05:33 PM   #258
IwantMORE

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Oh No Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen View Post
This is wrong, ME was still based on the same old 9X kernel series. Windows XP was the first consumer OS based on the NT series of kernels.
I stand corrected.
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Old 02-13-2007, 07:25 PM   #259
Phayzon

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Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen View Post
This is wrong, ME was still based on the same old 9X kernel series. Windows XP was the first consumer OS based on the NT series of kernels.
True as that may be, didnt ME bring in some NT features, like NTFS for example? Or am I remembering wrong...
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Old 02-13-2007, 07:33 PM   #260
Jiminator

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Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
a list is here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rating_systems

ME was just 98SE but without the real mode dos boot, it did not include NTFS.

details here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Me
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Old 02-13-2007, 09:16 PM   #261
mon2908
Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
Windows ME was the first Microsoft disaster with a new driver model that caused more trouble than it was good for. Most people I know tried to feed that os with that old 9x drivers they got with their equipment and that caused a lot of interesting bluescreens.

I personally haven't found it to be this bad, but that was because I looked more carefully what worked and what not. But fact is, that most people showed more interest in the more stable Windows 2000 that hit the market earlier and also supported DirectX.
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Old 02-14-2007, 01:45 AM   #262
IwantMORE

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Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
Still back my point up. W2K was the business version. Came out first with the new tech. Then cam ME. Has some of the features that would make it into XP IE5.5, Windows movie maker, system restore, universal plug and play, automatic updates and the joke one they always add at the end "faster system boot time"

Less that ONE year later XP came out. Looks like this time we will have to wait two years.
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Old 02-14-2007, 05:42 AM   #263
Phayzon

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Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
Quote:
Originally Posted by IwantMORE View Post
"faster system boot time"
With Vista that line is finally true. For some reason my primary (aka most powerful) system took a good 15 minutes to boot, and another 5 to finsish logging in and starting programs. Vista boots and logs in in about 3 minutes.

For some reason my weaker 3 systems always booted XP loads faster....
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Old 02-14-2007, 06:07 AM   #264
Jiminator

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Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
xp can be set to autodetect things like IDE devices. This can be turned off in driver settings somewhere. still 15 minutes is insane.
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Old 02-14-2007, 06:56 AM   #265
mon2908
Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phayzon View Post
With Vista that line is finally true. For some reason my primary (aka most powerful) system took a good 15 minutes to boot, and another 5 to finsish logging in and starting programs. Vista boots and logs in in about 3 minutes.

For some reason my weaker 3 systems always booted XP loads faster....
15 minutes for booting a system? What services have you started during boot time that it took your machine 15 minutes to startup? Have you ever had a look in your system protocol to find out which services caused this delay?
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Old 02-14-2007, 12:41 PM   #266
IwantMORE

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Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phayzon View Post
With Vista that line is finally true. For some reason my primary (aka most powerful) system took a good 15 minutes to boot, and another 5 to finsish logging in and starting programs. Vista boots and logs in in about 3 minutes.

For some reason my weaker 3 systems always booted XP loads faster....
IT was true for me with 95, 98, 2K (never went to XP) the problem is a few service packs and the wrong software and your back to square one.

Give it two years and Vista's load times will be double or more. Even OS X can have this problem. Which is why Apple bring out a new optimized version every year or so. Keeps it fresh. If all Apple users were still using a patched version of OS 10.1 then it would have problems.

Until we have an OS that don't need patching load times will always increase over time. And that's with out bad software, spyware, load on launch and other bits creep into the system.
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Old 02-14-2007, 04:33 PM   #267
Inanimate Carbon Rod

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Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
I boot up in ~22 seconds to Vista.

This time is from the Post Beep until I have Firefox going.
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Old 02-15-2007, 05:44 AM   #268
Phayzon

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Re: Vista launches tomorrow...
After actually timing my boot time, it takes 43sec from the time Post beep to get Opera running.
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Old 02-19-2007, 02:03 PM   #269
Joe Siegler
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Re: Windows Vista Thread
I shouldn't have to point this out, but apparently I must. THIS IS NOT A LINUX THREAD. Thank you.
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