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Old 03-27-2008, 03:14 AM   #41
mon2908
Re: Microsoft ending Windows XP
I think it matters which services work in the background and which are already stealing the existing system resources.

I do not believe that someone here really cared about the running services of Vista. So best thing you can do is to find out what you need to disable to get system performance back. Vista does not appear like the 'out-of-the-box-works-fine' operating system it should be in the eyes of it's users. So it really seems to be necessary to put hands on the system services.

> http://www.speedyvista.com/

For me personally it is totally clear that I won't use any Microsoft OS in future. 64bit computing works great on Linux and the new LTS version of Canonicals new Ubuntu Linux (and flavours) is just a breath away. I disliked XP for slowing down my equipment. I disliked beeing forced to activate my os and to dial the hotline to bring it back to life. I hate the dependancy the user is forced in by Microsoft. So why should I spend my money for an os I cannot call my own, after I payed for it? I think I am going to concentrate my game experience on NG Game consoles as long as Microsoft keeps it's monopol on the gaming pc.

I am convinced that pc gaming is dying anyway. Not only because of Microsofts operating system and console market attempts but also because of long lasting MMORPG like WOW. (Cut the amount of PC Gamers by 8%, because this players do not need any other game it seems.)

Windows died for me with XP and it won't resurrect for me with any new DRM infected bloatware from Microsoft.
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Last edited by mon2908; 03-27-2008 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 03-27-2008, 08:11 AM   #42
peoplessi

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Re: Microsoft ending Windows XP
You are so much off the track that it is useless to even correct you. You have made up your mind, fine, we are not here to convert anyone, or not atleast me. Linux is great in it's own right, but your argumentation lacks proof and most of it's made up crap, as the last sentence.

We are way offtopic here, I don't think that linux discussion belongs to this thread.
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Old 03-27-2008, 11:18 AM   #43
mon2908
Re: Microsoft ending Windows XP
Okay, you are right. Return back to topic then, what do you think, will happen? I mean, Microsoft released a new Windows operating system an it is lacking acceptance among most of the users. May it be because they believe that XP is a great operating system and works faster than Windows Vista, comes without DRM and does not need to relearn the way you work with it.

On the other hand we all know that the days of x86 architectures will end, that it is, necessary to support new processors and that the most compatible way is to create a VM that allows to run code that is independant from the hardware.

Question is, what will be the best way to keep compatibility to the binaries without to care, which processor you use. The lacking performance of Windows Vista is real and it is necessary but not easily to grap for someone who does not see the big picture. Microsoft wants to create an OS whose applications run on a VM. If processor architecture changes the only thing they need to do is to port the VM on this new architecture. The funny joke about this is, that SUN already tried this with Java. A development environment that allows to run all kind of applications on different architectures as long it supports the Java Virtual Machine. Microsoft plagiated Gosling's idea, allowed more development dialects but the results depend mostly on the quality of the VM.

So, how do you want to support a VM at it's best if it is necessary to support all kind of central processing units? If the speed of the applications mostly depend on the quality of the VM and not the FLOPS your CPU is capable to process?

I mean, it is 'easy' to adjust and compile an application to make it work with a different architecture as long as you have the source.

Microsoft wants to build binaries that will work with the .NET Virtual Machine but .NET isn't optimized for all kind of CPU's yet. If it is compatible, it won't get the best results out of your CPU, if it is opitimized for your CPU it probably lacks compatibility with the CPU of another vendor. That's the trouble you have to face if you give up XP and run Vista.

If Microsoft is going to stop support in 2014 does not really matter. I doubt that you'll find any CPU or drivers that would allow you to use XP on really new hardware. Remember, Windows XP is closed source. You can't compile the system for different architectures yourself. The only way you'll be able to use XP is within a x86 Virtual Machine.
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Last edited by mon2908; 03-27-2008 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 03-27-2008, 04:27 PM   #44
fast-1

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Re: Microsoft ending Windows XP
Bill gates has a house with computers that have every OS system on them even gadgets all over the place, he makes lots of money buys a huge boat that costs millions to run.

Also Windows XP and windows vista is just made to make Microsoft lots of money thats all they want, forget upgrade or downgrade.

Also when I was put on a 2 day a week help centre to look for work thing ( don't ask )
they still got Windows 2000 OS on there old computers so what's the fuss.
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Last edited by fast-1; 03-27-2008 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 03-27-2008, 07:08 PM   #45
Scotty

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Arrow Re: Microsoft ending Windows XP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yenji View Post
It's more wide spread then you think. Do a google search for Vista Disk thrashing and you'll see all sorts of complaints about it on a wide range of systems. It's not just the sytems I was working on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inanimate Carbon Rod View Post
My vista machine is silent, and has been for sometime.
How much RAM is in these systems?

I had a lot of disk thrashing with 1 GB of RAM, but it mostly went away with 2-3 GB of RAM.
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Old 03-27-2008, 07:10 PM   #46
IwantMORE

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Re: Microsoft ending Windows XP
MS needs a Vista lite, backward compatible version of vista with all the junk taken out, that would help.
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Old 03-27-2008, 07:15 PM   #47
Phayzon

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Re: Microsoft ending Windows XP
Quote:
Originally Posted by IwantMORE View Post
MS needs a Vista lite, backward compatible version of vista with all the junk taken out, that would help.
Vista Home Basic, perhaps?
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Old 03-27-2008, 09:11 PM   #48
Yenji

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Re: Microsoft ending Windows XP
Scotty - all of those Vista systems I worked on had a minimum of 2GB of RAM as we find that anything lower just doesn't cut it. We did have some machines with more memory... but 2GB was pretty standard for us
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Old 03-27-2008, 11:13 PM   #49
dan2091

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Re: Microsoft ending Windows XP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yenji View Post
What kinks do you want to hear?....
You know, those who sing 'Sunny Afternoon'.

Just wanted to post that joke, I couldn't contain.
Nothing relevant to say in here. Just wondered to know that they will actually give some kind of support until 2014.
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Old 03-28-2008, 04:18 AM   #50
Dave-ros

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Re: Microsoft ending Windows XP
Or "Waterloo Sunset"

Vista Home Basic is, by all accounts, total garbage -- is this true, or just MS-bashing? I imagine IwantMORE was after something with junk stripped out but that actually works -- like taking the back seats and spare tyre out of a car that's being modded for performance; Home Basic is (I gather) more like taking out the car engine and putting in a lawnmower engine
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:29 AM   #51
FireFly

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Re: Microsoft ending Windows XP
Home Basic is just Vista with the new UI, Aero, stripped out (the Media Center is also removed). Otherwise everything is pretty much the same. It just looks a lot less pretty, and you lose the 3D alt-tab (Flip 3D) and taskbar previews.

This does mean, though, that you'll need a lot less memory to run the OS smoothly, with even 512 MB being manageable:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=247
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Old 03-28-2008, 09:25 AM   #52
Scotty

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Ooo Re: Microsoft ending Windows XP
"Windows Mail" (replacement for Outhouselook Express) is the single biggest Vista memory pig, in my experience.

I'd shudder to see what it would do to a 512 MB system, even with Aero Glass stripped out...
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Old 03-28-2008, 09:29 AM   #53
8IronBob

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Re: Microsoft ending Windows XP
That's why I favor 4GB RAM to a 64-bit system, that's probably the best way to use Vista, imho. Win XP doesn't even have it that good at 2GB RAM, nor does 32-bit Vista.
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Old 03-28-2008, 10:08 AM   #54
mon2908
Re: Microsoft ending Windows XP
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8IronBob View Post
That's why I favor 4GB RAM to a 64-bit system, that's probably the best way to use Vista, imho. Win XP doesn't even have it that good at 2GB RAM, nor does 32-bit Vista.
One question? What's the reason you need an amount of 4 GB to make Vista work like XP? Don't you feel a bit stupid if you see that you need nearly double the amount of resources to make you machine work the same way for you like with XP?

Don't understand me wrong here, I do not want to insult anyone here but honestly. If you wager the cost profit value of your machine with Windows Vista, what would you say are the big benefits you gain by using Vista over XP?

On the other hand, if I compare the resource hunger of MacOS 9, OpenBSD or Zeta, the BeOS follower I really ask myself if it is really necessary to double the amount of necessary system resources all the time or if it is a marketing trick to satisfy hardware vendors.

Take a PS2 or a GameCube. The amount of resources of this consoles satisfy the needs of really good games. I can't understand why it should be necessary to multiplicate the amount of needed resources for such simple applications like Word, Excel, Powerpoint or any good game that also works great on this slim game consoles.
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Last edited by mon2908; 03-28-2008 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 03-28-2008, 10:59 AM   #55
Yenji

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Re: Microsoft ending Windows XP
I didn't want to say anything but I thought that 4GB of RAM was kind of extreme too... but it all depends on what you do with your system. Someone using AutoCAD is going to need more memory then someone who just edits word documents.

Personally I have a PC running Windows XP with 512MB of RAM and you know what? It suits me just fine. I'm not a PC Gamer anymore so for internet browsing, Microsoft Office and CD/DVD burning I have never seen the need to upgrade. But I'm only going to have this computer for another week now before I end up giving it to my sister. Then I'll only be using my Playstation 3 until I save up and buy a new laptop.

But still you shouldn't need 4GB to run an operating system smoothly. And on our work computers I found XP very fast with 2GB of RAM.
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Old 03-28-2008, 11:10 AM   #56
Zero

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Re: Microsoft ending Windows XP
I have a 8gb ram box (32bit cpu) it is used as a dedicated server, for various thing, POV-ray just to mention a few. All I can say is running a desktop with proper VM tables (for me swap drive configured to size) you should only need about 1gb of ram for a desktop, anymore and I have to ask what the hell you are doing, You have to remember when loading an app you aren't loading storing a whole app into memory, you are only storing somethings that are used over and over, if you need more then 1GB the programmer who coded this needs to rethink what the hell he is doing, either that or take a course on how to properly use memory, once data is used and doesn't need to be used anymore free it from memory!!!! with a game it would look like this
eg:

Init game engine -->Title screen --> load data -->start game
Transfer most if not all graphics to the videoram and remove it from the main memory
Now that you are in the game, remove all the title screen data
load model into video memory that have multipul arrays, this allows you to use the same model you already have in memory but just referenced as something else.

You have cards with 256-768mb of vram and yet we still need more main memory.. i dont understand how or even why.
I guess I learned how to program in assembler and thats why I understand that you dont need 40gb to run 1 game regardless of what the game says.
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Last edited by Zero; 03-28-2008 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 03-28-2008, 12:28 PM   #57
mon2908
Re: Microsoft ending Windows XP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero View Post
I guess I learned how to program in assembler and thats why I understand that you dont need 40gb to run 1 game regardless of what the game says.
Assembler? Why the heck would you ever do this? (except you are going to develop device drivers on your own? By the way, I couldn't even say how to find out how to do it at all.)

Code:
DOSSEG
.MODEL SMALL
.STACK 50
.DATA
LINE  DB "You're totally insane! ;-)"
.CODE
  MOV AX, @DATA
  MOV DS, AX
  MOV AH, 09H
  MOV DX, OFFSET LINE
  INT 21H
  MOV AX, 4C00H
  INT 21H
END
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Last edited by mon2908; 03-28-2008 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 03-28-2008, 12:40 PM   #58
8IronBob

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Re: Microsoft ending Windows XP
Uhm, no this is 4GB for the "64-bit" version of Vista, so it fits, and doesn't make it act crazy. 64-bit technology makes do of all 4GB, so it runs far better, I'm just saying that 32-bit can get a little looney-tuney about it. I'm just glad that combination makes Vista and the 64-bit model far more stable to use.

Only thing, I could've used a Quad instead of a Duo, then I'd get even better results from that. However, with my config, I don't see any issues whatsoever.
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Old 03-28-2008, 01:27 PM   #59
mon2908
Re: Microsoft ending Windows XP
I call a 64bit Linux distribution my own. A Core2Duo 2,66 (E6750) on an ASUS P5KC with a ASUS 8600 GT (512 MB). 2 Gigs of RAM. More than one fourth of the RAM. 27,3% is used yet.

Compiz Fusion is still running all the time. (Know not why I set up a swap space, of 6GB memory) Oh, I use the 'Cube' with five sides to switch among my applications. The only thing that does not work quite well now is the Adobe Flash plugin. 'nspluginwrapper' does not prevent it to cut the memory and commit suicide. Sooner or later I'll use GNASH anyway. I do not see the need for 4GB memory on a 64bit machine, sorry.

What interest me is the amount of memory Windows XP 64 needs to work quite well. Does it need 4GB of RAM or does it perform well with 512 MB or 1 GB memory?
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Last edited by mon2908; 03-28-2008 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 03-28-2008, 02:17 PM   #60
Zero

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Re: Microsoft ending Windows XP
Quote:
Originally Posted by mon2908 View Post
Assembler? Why the heck would you ever do this? (except you are going to develop device drivers on your own? By the way, I couldn't even say how to find out how to do it at all.)

Code:
DOSSEG
.MODEL SMALL
.STACK 50
.DATA
LINE  DB "You're totally insane! ;-)"
.CODE
  MOV AX, @DATA
  MOV DS, AX
  MOV AH, 09H
  MOV DX, OFFSET LINE
  INT 21H
  MOV AX, 4C00H
  INT 21H
END

LOL why would I do this, because apparently C/C++ devs spend so much time trying to make C/C++ faster then ASM they forget that ASM is small and fast at the same time, if you want to squeeze more out of your machine ASM is the way to do it. It might take forever, but learning it has made me see how incredibly dumb programs handle memory.


BTW nice DOS program :P
I myself have a 64bit system but it is also a 32bit system, it has both 64bit and 32bot C libs installed it is a hybrid, whatever doesnt run well in 64bit I compile for 32bits
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Last edited by Zero; 03-28-2008 at 02:25 PM.
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