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Old 10-24-2005, 09:54 PM   #1
Duke Rocks
 
Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
I don't know if this issue has been addressed before, but I was wondering how 3DR will deal with the repetitive use of the same enemy model and skin.

For example, when you play many FPS games you run into many bad guys that look exactly alike; sometimes, even in the exact same area!!

Now I don't expect 3DR to build 100s of different models for every single enemy you encounter, but I was just wondering if there will be many instances in the game where you see identical foes.

It may not be a huge deal, but it takes away from the experience slightly for me, so I was wondering if DNF will be more "believable" in this area than other games.


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Old 10-24-2005, 10:23 PM   #2
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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Somebody on this forum once said that it only applies to human (or human-like) characters. Apparently, you can have as many octabrain clones as you want but each human being must look different.
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Old 10-24-2005, 10:45 PM   #3
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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Quote:
Kalki said:
Somebody on this forum once said that it only applies to human (or human-like) characters. Apparently, you can have as many octabrain clones as you want but each human being must look different.
I like how Goldeneye and Perfect Dark handled this. Having different faces made it interesting (although, it was possible to see duplicates in one screen, but it wasn't too often).
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Old 10-24-2005, 11:23 PM   #4
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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Quote:
avatar_58 said:
Quote:
Kalki said:
Somebody on this forum once said that it only applies to human (or human-like) characters. Apparently, you can have as many octabrain clones as you want but each human being must look different.
I like how Goldeneye and Perfect Dark handled this. Having different faces made it interesting (although, it was possible to see duplicates in one screen, but it wasn't too often).
Yea that was good to see.
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Old 10-24-2005, 11:37 PM   #5
Duke Rocks
 
Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Was it a staff member that said this?

Because if they can at least do as you said (make it only with humans) I'd be happy for the most part.

I agree that other enemies aren't as important cuz they are a different species and most other species (other than humans) look exactly alike-to us people, at least.

For instance, if there was going to be a heard of bears, monkeys, elephants, or basically any other animal, it wouldn't matter if they were all the same skin and model, because that is the way they look in real life.


I guess 3DR is assuming that the same thing applies to ficticious beasts such as Octabrains and Pigcops.

But I wouldn't mind seeing an occasional variety on the attire/size/shape of these monsters. Its things like this that keep players playing and I'm sure 3DR realizes this.
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Old 10-24-2005, 11:37 PM   #6
jaypo90
Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Personally, it doesn't matter to me. It'd be a nice touch seeing different faces (for human enemies), but I'd be satisfied if they just to gave them a helmet or mask of some sort. Uniforms (like in F.E.A.R) solve the problem without making it look like a clone army.

The most recent reference material (2001 trailer ) had some soldiers in it right? Didn't they all have different faces already? If they were, would it really be a leap of faith to say they're at least planning to put a few different faces for similar enemies/npcs?

But would having a clone army really negatively affect the experience for you?
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Old 10-24-2005, 11:45 PM   #7
Kalki

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Quote:
Duke Rocks said:
Was it a staff member that said this?

Because if they can at least do as you said (make it only with humans) I'd be happy for the most part.
No it was someone else, but I believe George may have said something in agreement. You know, I better not say anything further without being sure. It's a non-info issue so I'm sure he'll come along and set the record straight anyway.

I think you can take comfort in the fact that the EDF and NPCs in the '01 video looked mostly different.
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Old 10-25-2005, 12:34 AM   #8
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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
I think it was because they are using all mo-cap animation, they can't easily make modifiable characters without it looking weird. However, I know there's a trend towards more physically simulated animation, so in next-gen games this should be a non-issue.
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Old 10-25-2005, 12:39 AM   #9
hell-angel
 

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
The reason for something like this is simple, not enough time to make them look different and 99% of the times you will not notice the difference either. I am sure that every soldier that has seen combat can tell you that in the heat of battle they all look the same.
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Old 10-25-2005, 12:43 AM   #10
TerminX

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Quote:
jaypo90 said:
Uniforms (like in F.E.A.R) solve the problem without making it look like a clone army.
Er... dude, the F.E.A.R enemies were a clone army.
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Old 10-25-2005, 12:49 AM   #11
hell-angel
 

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Quote:
TerminX said:
Quote:
jaypo90 said:
Uniforms (like in F.E.A.R) solve the problem without making it look like a clone army.
Er... dude, the F.E.A.R enemies were a clone army.
hehe, Now we know why they all look alike.
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Old 10-25-2005, 03:27 AM   #12
Micki!

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Quote:
TerminX said:
Quote:
jaypo90 said:
Uniforms (like in F.E.A.R) solve the problem without making it look like a clone army.
Er... dude, the F.E.A.R enemies were a clone army.
Shouldn't you have made that post with a spoiler..?
Or is it something mentioned already in articles and previews..!? I haven't heard of this yet..!
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Old 10-25-2005, 04:32 AM   #13
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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
I think it's known anyway..I've not been following F.E.A.R. atall and I knew that before release.

It would be cool to see something like an advanfced version of the SOF enemies where they each had different hair and facial 'stuff'.
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Old 10-25-2005, 06:44 AM   #14
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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Quote:
Micki! said:
Quote:
TerminX said:
Quote:
jaypo90 said:
Uniforms (like in F.E.A.R) solve the problem without making it look like a clone army.
Er... dude, the F.E.A.R enemies were a clone army.
Shouldn't you have made that post with a spoiler..?
Or is it something mentioned already in articles and previews..!? I haven't heard of this yet..!
That's been known for some time.
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Old 10-25-2005, 06:54 AM   #15
Micki!

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Quote:
Damien_Azreal said:
Quote:
Micki! said:
Quote:
TerminX said:
Quote:
jaypo90 said:
Uniforms (like in F.E.A.R) solve the problem without making it look like a clone army.
Er... dude, the F.E.A.R enemies were a clone army.
Shouldn't you have made that post with a spoiler..?
Or is it something mentioned already in articles and previews..!? I haven't heard of this yet..!
That's been known for some time.
Ok, i was worried about this being some 'plot' thing in the game..!

On topic again; only human NPC's should have different looks..! (in form of cloths, or faces, etc) But i think this would be unnecessary for Aliens... Unless it has to match with a certain event..! Like burnmarks on skin/clothing when being in a burning building etc which make it seem logical that they look different from others..!
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Old 10-25-2005, 08:48 AM   #16
Magnamuz

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Diferent models are not that much of a problem; in Halo there were 2 or 3 models of that deformed humans at the latest chapters and it felt realistic not to have the same ****lng monster chasing you all over the level.

This can be applied to little things such as Pig Cops with broken tooth, or more hairy crests, or big/small brained Octobrains. I hope this is already implemented (or to-be)
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Old 10-25-2005, 11:00 AM   #17
Cerberus_e
 

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Quote:
Micki! said:
Quote:
TerminX said:
Quote:
jaypo90 said:
Uniforms (like in F.E.A.R) solve the problem without making it look like a clone army.
Er... dude, the F.E.A.R enemies were a clone army.
Shouldn't you have made that post with a spoiler..?
Or is it something mentioned already in articles and previews..!? I haven't heard of this yet..!
it's in the demo
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Old 10-25-2005, 11:10 AM   #18
Micki!

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Quote:
Cerberus_e said:
Quote:
Micki! said:
Quote:
TerminX said:
Quote:
jaypo90 said:
Uniforms (like in F.E.A.R) solve the problem without making it look like a clone army.
Er... dude, the F.E.A.R enemies were a clone army.
Shouldn't you have made that post with a spoiler..?
Or is it something mentioned already in articles and previews..!? I haven't heard of this yet..!
it's in the demo
I haven't tried the demo yet (my PC can't handle it ) But good to know it's no 'Plot' thing..!
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Old 10-25-2005, 12:31 PM   #19
swat
Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
you guys are on about a demo where can i download the demo?
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Old 10-25-2005, 12:48 PM   #20
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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
I find it hard to believe you don't know a way to get the demo yourself.
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Old 10-25-2005, 01:43 PM   #21
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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Google is your friend.
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Old 10-25-2005, 01:45 PM   #22
Combat Chuck
Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Quote:
TerminX said:
Quote:
jaypo90 said:
Uniforms (like in F.E.A.R) solve the problem without making it look like a clone army.
Er... dude, the F.E.A.R enemies were a clone army.
I don't know, they all looked pretty different after I was done shooting them
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Old 10-26-2005, 12:29 AM   #23
hell-angel
 

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Quote:
swat said:
you guys are on about a demo where can i download the demo?
www.whatisfear.com is a good place to start.
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Old 10-26-2005, 01:31 AM   #24
Zaarin
Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
I don't see any problem with that the basic enemies are look-a-likes, 'cos in real-life everybody looks allmost the same when dressed into uniform.

I prefer good AI over gazillion different looking enemies.
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Old 10-26-2005, 03:01 AM   #25
hell-angel
 

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Quote:
Zaarin said:
I don't see any problem with that the basic enemies are look-a-likes, 'cos in real-life everybody looks allmost the same when dressed into uniform.

I prefer good AI over gazillion different looking enemies.
I second this.
Although the AI can also be scripted, just as long as it provides a challenge and the scripting is not that obvious.
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Old 10-26-2005, 06:01 AM   #26
Sang

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Different skins/models for every enemy you encounter could be cool...If you want your game to be 10 GB.
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Old 10-26-2005, 06:28 AM   #27
Cerberus_e
 

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Quote:
hell-angel said:
Quote:
Zaarin said:
I don't see any problem with that the basic enemies are look-a-likes, 'cos in real-life everybody looks allmost the same when dressed into uniform.

I prefer good AI over gazillion different looking enemies.
I second this.
Although the AI can also be scripted, just as long as it provides a challenge and the scripting is not that obvious.
well, at least a LITTLE bit of AI is necessary, or else you'll end up like in HL2 where they shoot the turrets instead of you when you are holding one in your hands
or when you can hide behind a sodan can when you're holding it in your hands between you and the face of an enemy
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Old 10-26-2005, 09:19 AM   #28
Magnamuz

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Quote:
Different skins/models for every enemy you encounter could be cool...If you want your game to be 10 GB.

Disc space is not a problem now a days, and less matters if it's for DNF (plus, the game at this moment it has more than 9 GB of data, so 1 or 2 GB more is the same)
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Old 10-26-2005, 09:22 AM   #29
Kristian Joensen

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Quote:
Sang said:
Different skins/models for every enemy you encounter could be cool...If you want your game to be 10 GB.
DNF is already 9,6 GB's so we would only be talking about around 400 MB extra.
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Old 10-26-2005, 09:36 AM   #30
SyntaxN

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Different skins for every enemy?
I don“t know how powerfull a machine has to be to run DNF in high settings but that would be a waste of memory imo
It just isn“t necessary, but some variation would be cool, DOOM³ did a right step through offering more than 1 model for an standard enemy
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Old 10-26-2005, 10:20 AM   #31
Mr.Sociopath
 

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
some random size enemies/character would be nice.. I don,t remember seeing a game that use that except for the main character(gta:sa for exemple).. but still i'd like to see that..
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Old 10-26-2005, 10:35 AM   #32
Sang

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Yes but how much useless, outdated stuff is in there? I'm pretty sure the final thing won't be 10 GB :P
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Old 10-26-2005, 10:44 AM   #33
Kristian Joensen

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
There is nothing form before 2002 and virtually nothing from before 2003 if that is what you are getting at.

However there are some things which will be removed priorto release, George has said that he can't see culling more than 2-3 GB's.

You also have to remember that they will be adding EVEN more prior to any culling of content.
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Old 10-26-2005, 03:04 PM   #34
December Man

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
DNF will be around 5-6 GB max.

And humans will have different faces. It's a standard. Monsters don't really have any faces. That's a problem
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Old 10-26-2005, 03:14 PM   #35
Kristian Joensen

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
There is no reason to think that it will be 5-6 GB.
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Old 10-26-2005, 03:18 PM   #36
December Man

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
On the other hand, there's no reason to think it will be 10GB.
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Old 10-26-2005, 03:21 PM   #37
Kristian Joensen

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Yes there is, the fact that it is 9.6 GB now, that is almost 10GB. They might very well add just as much before release as they will take out, therby leaving the game at almost 10GB, if they add about 400 MB more then they take out then they reach 10 GB exactly.
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Old 10-26-2005, 03:50 PM   #38
ZuljinRaynor

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
I could care less but if it's like HL were there are only 4 different scientists and one Security Guard + Fat Security Guard. More variation please.
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Old 10-26-2005, 08:27 PM   #39
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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
Quote:
Mr.Sociopath said:
some random size enemies/character would be nice.. I don,t remember seeing a game that use that except for the main character(gta:sa for exemple).. but still i'd like to see that..
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Old 10-26-2005, 08:35 PM   #40
baff
 

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Re: Killing an enemy and his 10 twin brothers...
They all look the same to me.
get them all to dress up as Imperial Stormtroopers and stand in a convenient line.
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