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Old 03-07-2009, 05:52 AM   #1
Kalki

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Duke Nukem Armor
Quote:
"George I have noticed that the liztrooper in this shot has a mask on his face. This is fine and the mask is badass but it is also worrying because I was very much looking forward to shooting liztroopers in their blockheaded faces and possibly kicking them in their faces as well. Will Liztroopers be able to take off their masks for facekicking purposes in DNF?"
"Armor is bolt-on. Some have it, some don't and you can blast it all off with guns. More on this later. You will get what you want." -- GeorgeB3DR (Dec 18, 2008 6:42pm CST)
I'm sure many of us remember this quote. Assuming this feature makes the cut, it could prove a very innovative way to scale up combat difficulty. The same enemy character that goes down in a few pistol shots early in the game could later require a ripper to take that armor off effectively. If done well, this could also add to the visual appeal of the game; a layer of destructible goodness on enemy models, of the non-gore variety. From what I can make out, I think the rest of the armor comes off piece by piece (gauntlets, thigh-pads, shoulder-plates) just like the mask but I could be wrong.
Does this open up the possibility of getting armor back in Duke's inventory? Having FBA in DNF may have previously been a barrier to this, if it meant depicting armor on Duke's body. I imagine it could be difficult to actively draw armor on the skin and look good at the same time. Bolting armor to Duke's FBA model though might have its own complications. Prepping levels with enemy models wearing bolted-on armor, ready to take the fall is not quite the same as strapping armor on mid-game right back the way it was.

With technology and physics the way it is today and given what what George said about removing armor, is it conceivable to have Duke zip into a bullet-proof vest on the fly where we can see it? There's the aesthetic question too, any visible armor would obscure Duke's signature red wifebeater and have to be fitted with/over/around his bandoliers.
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Old 03-07-2009, 06:00 AM   #2
Antikorper
Re: Armor
I cant imagine duke wearing a visible armour.
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Old 03-07-2009, 06:05 AM   #3
Daedolon
Re: Armor
I remember George saying that Duke doesn't need armour.
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Old 03-07-2009, 06:05 AM   #4
Morphine_OD
 
Re: Armor
Duke defenitely needs some octo camo!
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Old 03-07-2009, 06:06 AM   #5
marioman360

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Re: Armor
he wore armor in DN: Zero Hour (when you picked it up) and it looked fine.
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Old 03-07-2009, 06:19 AM   #6
Kristian Joensen

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Re: Armor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daedolon View Post
I remember George saying that Duke doesn't need armour.
I think you might be referring to this quote:

Quote:
Duke doesn't snipe or silence. He doesn't sneak or hide. He doesn't wear armor. He kicks alien ass. Lots of it, and he does it while drinking, smoking and saving babes along the way!
- George Broussard, February 15th, 2005.
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Old 03-07-2009, 07:39 AM   #7
peoplessi

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Re: Armor
Zipping armor, well that might be cool for the few first times, but after that it comes tedious You have to carefully balance the sections that the player isn't in control.
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Old 03-07-2009, 08:10 AM   #8
Micki!

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Re: Armor
I couldn't imagine him wear it, at least not visibly showing...

But there's so much to add with the armor of enemies, if it really CAN be literally picked apart...
I've always dreamed of more bossfights that require some strategic use of weapons...
Explosives to blow the outer aromr away, bullets to hit the vulnable flesh... Makes sense i guess 95% of the guys here have had this in the top of their heads the moment they read George's comment there, i bet...

I'd love being in baddass situations wher ei am fighting regular enemies with no armor, and suddenly a guy WITH armor comes in, creating a disbalance (-the good kind) in the battle, and now you have to use other methods, maybe use the hard-to-come-by shrinker ammo on the armored guy, so you won't have to deal with him while the others distract you, or maybe just blow the blace up with some pipebombs, or simply spray the armored guy with so many bullets that the armor eventualy picks apart completely, and leaves him just as vulnable as anyone else... I'd love if kicking had a whole different effect on armored enemies than non armored, that would be awesome...

Would also be cool if either type of enemies had a payoff with wearing it or not, like moving faster and much more agile with no armor (Assault troopers could fly faster in jetpacks too, harder to it, but easier to kill once you do hit), and armored once, while not being bulky tanks, could still be slightly limited with thier maximum speed, and more importantly thier reactions to your actions... Would make sens eif they just recklessly mowed forward while being fired at with full force, since they aer armored, while non armored would rather seek cover or just avoid shots and rockets overall...

I dunno if i'm asking for too much, but i'd love to make most out of this features potentional...
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Old 03-07-2009, 08:12 AM   #9
KleyMEN

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Re: Armor
It's not armor, it's armour.

Spoiler:
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Old 03-07-2009, 08:15 AM   #10
Monkey Butler
Re: Armor
I can't imagine a "put on armour" animation being used all the time. Unrealistic as it is, maybe they could just have him zipping on a kevlar vest or whatever only when he doesn't already have armour. So like the first time he comes across some armour you see him put it on, but you only see that armour removed/replaced once it's 100% depleted. If he had some % of armour left while still wearing it, maybe it could be automatically repaired, without the need for any extra animation.
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Old 03-07-2009, 09:22 AM   #11
Antikorper
Re: Armor
He has a red sleeveless shirt he doesnt need an armour.
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Old 03-07-2009, 11:07 AM   #12
RedSplat

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Re: Armor
It's set in the future.
So it could be: Spray-on NanoArmor.

With a musky odor.
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Old 03-07-2009, 12:01 PM   #13
Micki!

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Re: Armor
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSplat View Post
It's set in the future.
So it could be: Spray-on NanoArmor.

With a musky odor.
Made in France, i guess...
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Old 03-07-2009, 12:10 PM   #14
Psyrgery

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Re: Armor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalki View Post
You will get what you want." -- GeorgeB3DR (Dec 18, 2008 6:42pm CST)

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Old 03-07-2009, 12:35 PM   #15
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Re: Armor
^

&

lol
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Old 03-07-2009, 12:43 PM   #16
Frift
Re: Armor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyrgery View Post
[/INDENT]
we definitely didn't get it WHEN we wanted it...... several times
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Old 03-07-2009, 02:35 PM   #17
Kalki

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Re: Armor
@ Psyrgery: Unless you're SpaecKow from the Shacknews boards, George's quote probably does NOT apply to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micki! View Post
I dunno if i'm asking for too much, but i'd love to make most out of this features potentional...
You've raised interesting possibilities. Unconventional weapons could react to armor in their own ways. Like say using a freezer makes armor vulnerable quickest apart from direct explosive damage, so following up with a mere pistol shot shatters or ejects an entire section of frozen armor(even underlying plate layers).

Certain (thrown or fired) projectiles could stick to the armor and remain lodged there. Kinda like the taser you see embedded on Bats here:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Butler View Post
I can't imagine a "put on armour" animation being used all the time. Unrealistic as it is, maybe they could just have him zipping on a kevlar vest or whatever only when he doesn't already have armour. So like the first time he comes across some armour you see him put it on, but you only see that armour removed/replaced once it's 100% depleted. If he had some % of armour left while still wearing it, maybe it could be automatically repaired, without the need for any extra animation.
I don't see it used all the time either. Perhaps it could be as simple as grabbing and slapping on Quake 2 like armor "shards", individual plates which attach to his bandoliers. If that is simple at all.

This is something I have trouble seeing implemented as I hope I explained earlier. But having *something* would be cool though. Enduring bullets with just a tanktop is far fetched, even for Duke. After all, DN3D had armor too and makes sense considering the in-your-face style of combat. Maintaining that immersion would be nice but needless to say, keeping things Fun remains the bottom line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSplat View Post
It's set in the future.
So it could be: Spray-on NanoArmor.
Either that or a force field of some kind.
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Old 03-07-2009, 07:49 PM   #18
DuLt
Re: Armor
It would be nice to see (IF he used armour) the bullet holes on the vest...
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Old 03-08-2009, 05:49 AM   #19
Rider

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Re: Armor
Kevlar would make sense too me in this case... or a sort of 'wrap-around' piece of armor that goes under his current outfit or something... like a garter belt. The armor shards could work too... but that wouldn't work well with an animation... especially if you pick up a lot of them.

Forcefields could be an easy solution. They where in DN:MP...
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Old 03-08-2009, 09:47 AM   #20
Monkey Butler
Re: Armor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rider View Post
or a sort of 'wrap-around' piece of armor that goes under his current outfit or something... like a garter belt.
I'm not sure garter belt is the term you're looking for. Unless we're talking about armour for the strippers now?
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Old 03-09-2009, 02:19 AM   #21
Rider

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Re: Armor
Heh, I meant in the way it's put on. Duke trying to fit a vest over his head and under his clothes might be impractical, but I could see him wrapping something around his waist real quick.
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Old 03-09-2009, 03:16 AM   #22
Micki!

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Re: Armor
Enemies need Armor...
Only armor Duke needs are his steroids... Those should pump him up enough to take some bullets, when he normally would get seriously hurt... Would make steroids more so useful, too...
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Old 03-09-2009, 05:02 AM   #23
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Re: Armor
i wonder if they'll still have atomic health?
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Old 03-09-2009, 01:23 PM   #24
Psyrgery

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Re: Armor
OK, going ontopic.

I hope 3DR makes that armor impact effects better than in Halo3, where the armor just vanished instantly. It looked like ass, imho.

Also, it would be nice to see the bullet impacts on the armors surface. Just like in the Jace Hall shaky cam video, you could see bloody bullet impacts on the Pigcop while Duke was pwning its ass with the Ripper.

It done right, DNF could result in some spectacular visual effects. But right now my faith on the game is not on its better moments.
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Old 03-10-2009, 01:53 AM   #25
Malgon

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Re: Armor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalki View Post
I don't see it used all the time either. Perhaps it could be as simple as grabbing and slapping on Quake 2 like armor "shards", individual plates which attach to his bandoliers. If that is simple at all.

This is something I have trouble seeing implemented as I hope I explained earlier. But having *something* would be cool though. Enduring bullets with just a tanktop is far fetched, even for Duke. After all, DN3D had armor too and makes sense considering the in-your-face style of combat. Maintaining that immersion would be nice but needless to say, keeping things Fun remains the bottom line.
It's an interesting question about whether Duke will wear armour or not, since if he does, it'll require animation which will take time to implement, which in turn will probably also interfere with what else is going on at the time. If he doesn't wear armour, then it's less work but it breaks immersion and the whole point of what 3DRealms is trying to achieve with FBA. As you said it'd be nice to see it in, but ultimately keeping it fun is important.
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Old 03-10-2009, 07:13 AM   #26
peoplessi

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Re: Armor
It's a big issue, I think most games have to possibility to shine, when a lot care is put into details like this. Duke Nukem 3D wouldn't have been as great without the great detail it had back in the day.

...I don't see this as a big issue for 3D Realms, they are known for their attention to details like this. The teaser alone proved that they have "that something" going on.
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:05 PM   #27
Emultra
Re: Armor
It's just a stat anyway. Armor or extra health above 100, meh. They'll balance it with or without armor.
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Old 03-25-2009, 06:41 AM   #28
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Re: Armor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emultra View Post
It's just a stat anyway. Armor or extra health above 100, meh. They'll balance it with or without armor.
Hehe, so true.
 
Old 03-25-2009, 06:59 AM   #29
Kalki

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Re: Armor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emultra View Post
It's just a stat anyway. Armor or extra health above 100, meh. They'll balance it with or without armor.
Ah but is it still "just a stat" like health? For enemy models, armor is now being rendered as a unique asset, a tangible part of the game world that can be interacted with. The question was whether this could apply to the player character as well.
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Old 03-25-2009, 07:47 AM   #30
Micki!

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Re: Armor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalki View Post
The question was whether this could apply to the player character as well.
And if it does, it would cause some interesting Multiplayer matches, assuming it'll be used there too, and if so, preferably being optional, for customization and all...
Not saying that i don't like the idea, i think it sounds really cool, but i'd hate to see everything depend on wearing armor or not in Multiplayer, just because it does so much more than "absorb" damage like in most other games... It'll end up with every match, starting to be an armor-hunt...

I'd hate this to become a gimmick, it shouldn't be over used or make the game TOO tactical, and i mean both in SP and MP... It could end up being nothing but a "shoot-off-the-armor-before-you-bother-trying-to-kill-the-guy-with-a-well-placed-shot" kind of game... I'd hate to see an enemy around the next corner, and end up thinking "i gotta remove his armor" instead of "i'll blow his ass to pieces"
So yeah, hope people see where i'm getting at with this... I'm all for call armor like this, but not if almost everything that has anything to do with shooting actually depends on it...
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Old 03-25-2009, 10:43 AM   #31
Antikorper
Re: Armor
Someone may know the force field armour from Stargate Atlantis. I like the idea. But instead of long lasting shield i would like to see something that only lasts for couple of seconds so that you can use it to run through flames or survive an incoming missile, but only if you time it perfectly.
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Old 03-25-2009, 01:57 PM   #32
Emultra
Re: Armor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalki View Post
Ah but is it still "just a stat" like health? For enemy models, armor is now being rendered as a unique asset, a tangible part of the game world that can be interacted with. The question was whether this could apply to the player character as well.
Potentially cool, I guess, but unlike a player targeting enemy armor, getting one's own armor blown off by AI monsters would be very random. I don't like to die because an enemy RNG'd my armor off with multiple lucky shots on the same ceramic plate or whatever.

I suppose for Duke himself it could be made more predictable. But then it would pretty much just be extra HP.
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Old 03-26-2009, 01:54 AM   #33
DerricktheW

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Re: Armor
This reminds me of something one of the guys thats working on Damnation brought up.

Would you rather have a realistic game, or a fluid movement game?

In Damnation, you scale buildings and clamor walls like in Assassin's Creed, however, if you even press a jump button or something similar, your character instantly does that action, instead of having to go through some animation before he finally does it. The best example is if your running in one direction. Your running, like a full on sprint, and now you change directions immediately. Do you make it realistic and have the character slow down before he can start running the other direction? Or do you make him instantly start shifting directions?

Its an immediate responsive action, which means gameplay will be much more faster, but you sacrifice realism. However, I found climbing walls in Assassin's Creed very boring after a little while, since the animations were so slow and he had to go through everything as if it was someone in real life.

For me, I'd rather Duke not have to go through some animation of him putting on armor. At least, not all the time. Maybe on a certain cutscene or something similar. It won't break my immersion if he walks over armor and its instantly strapped into his FBW. I mean, its not like we have to crouch down and pick up weapons with our hands.
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Old 04-01-2009, 12:44 PM   #34
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Re: Armor
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerricktheW View Post
I mean, its not like we have to crouch down and pick up weapons with our hands.
Cough, Crysis, cough.

You can't imagine how disappointed I was with this game. Sure, it's beautiful (and heavy), but I got bored.
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Old 04-01-2009, 03:04 PM   #35
alexgk

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Re: Armor
If Duke uses a metal armor, comparisons with Gears of War will be unavoidable...
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Old 04-01-2009, 04:20 PM   #36
Commando Nukem

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Re: Armor
This entire thing that Duke doesnt snipe, or use cover, or wear armor is being blown out of the water right now.

Duke Nukem : Zero Hour - Duke not only used armor, but it was visible texture that would dissappear once the armor was used up. He also had access to a .50 BMG sniper rifle.

Duke Nukem Trilogy : Duke is sniping, and using cover in this one.

I say, if anything, have Duke slip on some kind of a flak jacket that zips up the front, and just have him not zip it up. So its sort of a "loose" extra protection. Allowing him to easily grab extra mags/grenades/rockets from his web gear (for the practical touch, im not saying he literally would be grabbing ammo out of his ammo belt).

The only major change would be you'd get a standard addition of "100 armor" or just reduce the amount of damage taken until the armor is used up. No need for additional animations or anything, just have the player model swap "NoVest" to "Vest."
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Old 04-09-2009, 02:40 PM   #37
Darthmoe
Re: Armor
I think I might have an idea that possibly cover all of our bases.

For starters we can easily solve the whole issue about Duke either covering up his signature tank top or impractically wearing a vest underneath his shirt by simplealy saying that his tank top is constructed out of some sort of bullet resistant fabric is in fact armor. Mechanics wise this wardrobe upgrade does nothing but story line wise it does two things.

1st It helps to explain why a seemingly unarmored Duke can sustain multiple gunshot wounds and still keep on fighting.

2ndly it explains why Duke's clothes never so much as get tattered.

Of course this also has the advantage of allowing Duke to keep his classic look while still making. I mean armored garments like this exist now, but in

For additional protection Duke's shirt could easily be redrawn to include addition of barely visible pouches that will allow Duke to place additional vest panels and or trauma plates inside the pouches for added protection. This will have the same function as body armor did in the DN3D. Finally when Duke collects replacement vest what he is actually doing is removing the vest panels and trauma plates from the new and replacing the damaged panels and plates from his armored tank top. A brief cinema could be shown of doing this the first time he collects armor in a level, or every time he collects armor when he didn't have it before.

As for the alien armor system this can also be included as an inventory item. I'm seeing it as a kind retractable armor plating that acts like a space aged suit of full plate armor. It offers superior protection against small arms fire but at the tremendous cost of mobility as Duke strains under it's massive weight. For one thing even the basic assault trooper might be considerably stronger than the average human (although not necessary Duke) and this armor is probably only worn by the best and strongest alien warriors they have. So while Duke would strain under the sheer weight of such armor an average man wouldn't be able to don the armor at all. Among other things it's logical that when equipped the encumbrance of this heavy Duke's, running speed, jumping height/distance, ability to swim (if he can even swim at all), and his melee fighting abilities. Furthermore Duke should actually be much more effected by the armors encumbrance than the alien warriors who use it.
Last edited by Darthmoe; 04-09-2009 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:33 AM   #38
fast-1

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Re: Armor
If he don't need armour ( UK spelling ) then he could use a force field. But he's so tough he would use a ego field.
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