Doom 4 Thread Part 2

[john_doe2]

According to John Carmack, Doom 4 will take up 3 DVDs on the Xbox 360 while Rage will only take up two discs. His exact quote was "Doom 4 is being set up so that it's almost certainly going to be cut up to 3 DVDs versus one Blu-ray. At least they've got the ability because of the way its structured."

Here's the article where I got the quote:

http://play.tm/news/25766/doom-4-lik...be-multi-disc/

So the way Doom 4 is structured is going to allow it to be cut up into 3 DVDs eh? If Doom 4 is an open world game like Rage(we don't really know that yet but I am assuming that it is), does that mean we can expect 3 wastelands or regions of exploration in Doom 4? From what I have heard, Rage has two wastelands and that's why they've got it split into two discs on the 360.

One can only imagine what the wastelands might be. I expect one to be a ruined city and maybe the last wasteland will be totally in Hell! Can you imagine exploring a vast area of Hell for a third part of the game? That would be so sick!

[Damien_Azreal]

Doom 4 is most likely not going to be an open world themed game. It will likely be a level to level progression similar to the previous games in the series.

[Echo Black]

Doom 4 will push their new tech to the limit, so much of that size is likely to end up being graphical assets, not actual gameplay content.

[john_doe2]

If it's open world or has a level to level progression structure, either way it is going to be a huge game since it will be on 3 DVDs.

Anyway, I for one hope it's at least a little open world. I mean, from what has been said it's most likely going to be set on Earth and we already know it will be using id Tech 5, so open world is not totally off the table. I don't want it to be totally open world like GTA, but having large environments to explore and searching for secrets and weapon caches like in the older Doom games would be totally awesome.

EDIT: Well, if it's due to graphical assets then it better damn well be amazingly beautiful in its own digusting way.

[Damien_Azreal]

Game length does not equal that it will take up more DVDs. I own very small, short games that are on two DVDs... and rather long games that are on single DVDs.

It's the technology powering the games, the texture data and such that will require the space.

[Kien]

Originally Posted by Damien_Azreal

It's the technology powering the games, the texture data and such that will require the space.

Well in Doom3 all enviorments looked the same so there can't been much textures.

[Kristian Joensen]

id Tech 5's virtual texturing system is an extension of the Megatexture tech in ETQW, but this time it also supports characters, building, vehicles, etc. So they have basically done away with texture resolution limitations, as far as the terrain gores for example, Rage uses 128k x 128k textures for its.

[john_doe2]

Originally Posted by Kien

Well in Doom3 all enviorments looked the same so there can't been much textures.

I am pretty sure that id is staying FAR away from the style of Doom 3. They know all the criticisms that Doom 3 got and telling from an old shacknews article, they plan to fix everything that was wrong with Doom 3. Hopefully they'll keep everything that was right with Doom 3 though, like the immersive atmosphere and the dark and serious mood of the game and last but not least, the interactive computer screens. Those were pretty cool.

[LAW]

Doom 2 was worse than the original and it deserves to be remade with style...

[Kien]

Originally Posted by LAW

Doom 2 was worse than the original and it deserves to be remade with style...

Doom 2 wut?

[john_doe2]

Doom 2 rocked! This Doom is not a remake of Doom 2, it is going to be different somehow. However, it is most likely going to be set on Earth like Doom 2.

[Jokke_r]

I think the only really good part about the original doom games was the first episode of Doom 1. It was the only part with somewhat decent/coherent level design. The rest including the whole of Doom2 sucked balls. Only good thing in Doom2 was the double barrel shotgun.

[Kien]

Originally Posted by Jokke_r

I think the only really good part about the original doom games was the first episode of Doom 1. It was the only part with somewhat decent/coherent level design. The rest including the whole of Doom2 sucked balls. Only good thing in Doom2 was the double barrel shotgun.

Wut. Doom 1 doesn't have all the monsters and especially not the first episode. Nor does it have all the weapons. It only has those really basic weak enemies expect 2 in the last level. My problem with Doom2 is just all the city maps. The game was too early in time to have any proper city maps. Duke3d did it good.

[ZuljinRaynor]

The only reason Doom 1's first episode holds any merit is nostalgia. Otherwise, Doom 1's three episodes have kinda lame maps. Doom 2's maps are bigger and more interesting. The best maps in design are the ones from Ultimate Doom Episode 4.

Doom 2 had like 5 city maps.

[Steve]

Thy flesh consumed had great maps! Although a little small and easy to complete.

[Kien]

I find it hard to enjoy Doom 1 simply because it doesn't have the new weapon and monsters. Doom without having to worry about pain elementals and arch-viles (or a fat mancubus around the corner) feels too easy. :-/ And the double shotgun is your standard weapon. The shotgun is too weak and the rocket launcher is too dangerous and rare.

[Damien_Azreal]

I actually use the pump shotty as my main workhorse through out the game. Falling back on the super shotty when the time calls for it.

[Kien]

Originally Posted by Damien_Azreal

I actually use the pump shotty as my main workhorse through out the game. Falling back on the super shotty when the time calls for it.

But it takes like 4-6 shots to kill a cacodemon.

[Damien_Azreal]

You say that like a Cacodemon is a challenging enemy. I'll pull out the super shotty for pinky demons, specters, hell knights and barons... most everything else is regular shotty.

Rocket launcher for a few of the other bigger enemies, plasma rifle for a few others. I pretty much never touch the chaingun though.

[Delicieuxz]

Doom 1 & 2 both kick ass. I love Doom 1's first episode, think the 2nd is kinda weak, love the 3rd, and can't remember much of the 4th and will have to replay it.

[Kien]

Things die too slow with common shotgunus.

[john_doe2]

I loved all of Ultimate Doom and Doom 2. Doom 2 was by far the best because it had bigger levels, more enemies, more guns, and tons of action. It was just Doom, but bigger.

[ZuljinRaynor]

Regular shotgun shoots 7 pellets I believe and the Super Shotgun shoots 20. More bang for you shell.

[Kien]

Originally Posted by ZuljinRaynor

Regular shotgun shoots 7 pellets I believe and the Super Shotgun shoots 20. More bang for you shell.

Yes that's why it was more effective. Time wise too I think. It's like the funny thing about the weapons, the double shotgun shoots more pellets than 2 shots of the pump one even thouhg they use the same ammo. Donno if it's more weird than 1 weapon transforming rockets into grenades for no reason though, while another shoots them as rockets.

[ZuljinRaynor]

That's why it's called the Super Shotgun and not the Double Barreled Shotgun.

[Dunedain]

I'm really looking forward to Doom IV. First off, we get a new Doom game, finally (yaaah)! On top of that, from Carmack's description, Doom IV is going to look amazing. Rage already looks great from everything we've seen, 3x that is going to be nuts! We're talking about graphics that will blow even Crysis out of the water (and that's saying something).

One thing, though. If they are going for graphics that are that good, then they are going to need incredible textures, very high res, super life-like and detailed. The id texture artists have their hands full with Doom IV. Fortunately for id (and us), with their super efficient LOD texture swapping methods, they will be able to use excellent quality textures in many places without requiring everyone to have 2 gigs of VRAM on their graphics card. I wouldn't be surprised if the PC version of Doom IV sets a standard of graphics never seen before in a game when it comes out, like Crysis has done.

As far as the super shotgun goes, it could be that the 12 gauge shells fired from it are assumed to be magnum loads.

I hope they keep the great atmosphere from Doom III going. The detailed rooms, the tapes where you can hear audio entries from soldiers and staff, the t.v.'s playing UAC promotional videos, the functional computer monitors, moody music and so on. All that stuff was great and it made for a cool and believable environment!

[Mr Bear]

Originally Posted by Dunedain

I hope they keep the great atmosphere from Doom III going.

No, I'd rather be able to actually SEE these new jaw-dropping graphics.

[Jokke_r]

I don't mind really that Doom1 E1 doesn't have all the weapons, the plasma rifle and BFG were some of the more lame weapons in the game. I mostly finish the whole game using pump shotgun only, rocketlauncher only when facing hoards of tough enemies like pinkydemons. And chaingun when mowing down zombies. Also i find the more tougher enemies to be very poorly done. They aren't that interesting really. The zombies imp's and the occasional pinky are far more balanced etc. Back then tougher enemies meant just more HP, since there wasn't really much diversity in movement or arsenal. Whenever i want to play Doom, i only run through the first episode on Hard with the shotgun :/

[ZuljinRaynor]

The reason for adding the Hell Knight in Doom 2 was cause the Baron was just too much HP and too weak. So to use Barons less often as all they would be doing it just wasting ammo, they added the hell knight so they can use it more often without seeming like ammo sponges.

[Kien]

Originally Posted by Dunedain

I hope they keep the great atmosphere from Doom III going. The detailed rooms, the tapes where you can hear audio entries from soldiers and staff, the t.v.'s playing UAC promotional videos, the functional computer monitors, moody music and so on. All that stuff was great and it made for a cool and believable environment!

I hope they forget most of what Doom 3 was and I hope they forget the idea of the game being scary. I hope they forget the rusty grey badly lightened rooms with steaming roaring machines everywhere. I hope they forget the chubby round design on the weapons. I hope they get that there is suppose to be detailed gore in Doom, which means more than 1 type of enemies turning into bloody skeletons from certain attacks. The bigger more complex shape of the enemy => the more you want to destroy it in fancy ways. In general in games prettier == more desire to destroy it. Developers must understand that. They want to impress with high detailed normal mapped creatures with flashy animations and stuff, but that means they also have to make it just as fancy to kill it, to destory all their fancy work into fancy "pieces".




I find everything Doom 2 added to be good, besides lots of it's levels... What else should make enemies thougher than more HP and stronger attacks? The Arch-vile was also fast moving with ability to revive stuff and pain elementals spit out new monsters. The episode 1 enemies are just so... "basic". It's no real big monsters. Just human shaped things expect the pinkies. It's like the episode with only the small weak monsters. Expect for the last 2 barons.

[ZuljinRaynor]

Doom 2's levels were the next step of Doom mapping. If you look at the maps, Doom Ep 1-3 -> Doom 2 -> Doom Episode 4, there is a progression.

Personally I would like Doom 4 to have some connection to Doom 3 as I don't want a second reboot already.

[Jokke_r]

They should have stuck with the more linear design of Ep1 imo. There was clear progression in the levels even though they had some non-linearity and branching out. The later levels in the later episodes were just mazes and key hunting and death traps. Very very bad levels, i think E1M2 and E1M3 are the best designed maps in both Doom 1 and 2.

[john_doe2]

Originally Posted by Kien

I hope they forget most of what Doom 3 was and I hope they forget the idea of the game being scary. I hope they forget the rusty grey badly lightened rooms with steaming roaring machines everywhere. I hope they forget the chubby round design on the weapons. I hope they get that there is suppose to be detailed gore in Doom, which means more than 1 type of enemies turning into bloody skeletons from certain attacks. The bigger more complex shape of the enemy => the more you want to destroy it in fancy ways. In general in games prettier == more desire to destroy it. Developers must understand that. They want to impress with high detailed normal mapped creatures with flashy animations and stuff, but that means they also have to make it just as fancy to kill it, to destory all their fancy work into fancy "pieces".

I find everything Doom 2 added to be good, besides lots of it's levels... What else should make enemies thougher than more HP and stronger attacks? The Arch-vile was also fast moving with ability to revive stuff and pain elementals spit out new monsters. The episode 1 enemies are just so... "basic". It's no real big monsters. Just human shaped things expect the pinkies. It's like the episode with only the small weak monsters. Expect for the last 2 barons.

I strongly disagree with you. Doom 3 had awesome atmosphere. I loved the high tech machinery, the interactive computer screens, and the all the sounds of the base. It was so immersive. I actually felt like I was in a space station on Mars.

I hope they fix everything that was wrong with Doom 3, but I certainly hope they keep everything that was right. And honestly, if Doom 4 is just Doom 2 remade with super high rez textures, then I will be pretty disappointed and I guarantee you that the game will flop critically like Doom 3 did.

However, I agree with you that they should make the gore better. I hope that the monsters can be dismembered piece and be gibbed, even the big ones. It would be so awesome to shoot a Hell Knight with a BFG and have it explode and paint the whole area with blood and gore. That's true Doom right there.

[ZuljinRaynor]

Originally Posted by john_doe2

And honestly, if Doom 4 is just Doom 2 remade with super high rez textures, then I will be pretty disappointed and I guarantee you that the game will flop critically like Doom 3 did.

Doom 3 didn't flop with critics. Doom 3 didn't flop at all. They sold over 3.5 Million copies and it was their most successful game to date.

If anything it was a disappointment for some of the more vocal players.

[Orochi Avlis]

I liked Doom 3. It was a nice throw back to the classic. Very atmospheric.
I also liked the expansion.

[Kien]

Originally Posted by john_doe2

I strongly disagree with you. Doom 3 had awesome atmosphere. I loved the high tech machinery, the interactive computer screens, and the all the sounds of the base. It was so immersive. I actually felt like I was in a space station on Mars.

I hope they fix everything that was wrong with Doom 3, but I certainly hope they keep everything that was right. And honestly, if Doom 4 is just Doom 2 remade with super high rez textures, then I will be pretty disappointed and I guarantee you that the game will flop critically like Doom 3 did.

However, I agree with you that they should make the gore better. I hope that the monsters can be dismembered piece and be gibbed, even the big ones. It would be so awesome to shoot a Hell Knight with a BFG and have it explode and paint the whole area with blood and gore. That's true Doom right there.

Gosh I really thought by far most hated the enviroments of Doom3. The thing is that it feels over-done and not natural. That no one would make a space station for humans to live in that unpleasant. Just look at the elevator you step into. It looks like some strogg killing chamber from what I remember. That's a general thing about space stations or vehicles in games, they always looks so un-pleasant to live in.

I don't want remade levels that doesn't mean to look like anything. I want it to take place on Earth with common places that aren't all dark only for the reason of scaryness. I want nice day time outdoors as well. Honestly I would like if the player looked pretty much like the original Doom soldier. With the mission to actually fight the monsters rather than them coming for the first time to the suprise for humanity. Meeting 1 or 2 other soldiers a few times would be nice too. As you see in the Doom boxart.

About monsters, I hope the new monsters will be more than just variations of Imps. I remember 1 of them had like 2 heads, another shot green instead of red fireballs, another had mandibles. Instead of a mouth. They all felt like imps with some genes changed.

Btw I hope the plasma weapons feels like what they shoot is hot stuff. They should leave red glowing burn marks on walls give heat distortion and such. Maybe set corpses on fire/turn them to ash skeletons like in FEAR I think.

[john_doe2]

Originally Posted by ZuljinRaynor

Doom 3 didn't flop with critics. Doom 3 didn't flop at all. They sold over 3.5 Million copies and it was their most successful game to date.

If anything it was a disappointment for some of the more vocal players.

It was a financial success yes, and it did receive some good reviews. However, it split the gaming community in half. A lot of people hated it and a lot of people liked it. It wasn't universally loved is all I am saying.

[ZuljinRaynor]

Originally Posted by john_doe2

It was a financial success yes, and it did receive some good reviews.

Some? More like a ton.

Originally Posted by john_doe2

However, it split the gaming community in half. A lot of people hated it and a lot of people liked it. It wasn't universally loved is all I am saying.

Every game does that. Sometimes just the people who are disappointed or hate a game aren't vocal about it.

I understand that you were trying to say that not everyone loved it, but that's not what a flop is.

System Shock 2 is a flop (though not critically, but financially) for example.

[john_doe2]

Originally Posted by Kien

Gosh I really thought by far most hated the enviroments of Doom3. The thing is that it feels over-done and not natural. That no one would make a space station for humans to live in that unpleasant. Just look at the elevator you step into. It looks like some strogg killing chamber from what I remember. That's a general thing about space stations or vehicles in games, they always looks so un-pleasant to live in.

I don't want remade levels that doesn't mean to look like anything. I want it to take place on Earth with common places that aren't all dark only for the reason of scaryness. I want nice day time outdoors as well. Honestly I would like if the player looked pretty much like the original Doom soldier. With the mission to actually fight the monsters rather than them coming for the first time to the suprise for humanity. Meeting 1 or 2 other soldiers a few times would be nice too. As you see in the Doom boxart.

About monsters, I hope the new monsters will be more than just variations of Imps. I remember 1 of them had like 2 heads, another shot green instead of red fireballs, another had mandibles. Instead of a mouth. They all felt like imps with some genes changed.

Btw I hope the plasma weapons feels like what they shoot is hot stuff. They should leave red glowing burn marks on walls give heat distortion and such. Maybe set corpses on fire/turn them to ash skeletons like in FEAR I think.

I think the reason they made it look so upleasant was to enhance the scary atmosphere. But regardless, I thought the environments were awesome and they felt realistic and believable to me.

Now, don't get me wrong here, I hope that Doom 4 is brighter than Doom 3, has more varied environments than Doom3, has more varied monsters than in Doom 3, has more guns than in Doom 3, has better AI than in Doom 3, has better gore effects than in Doom 3, has better sounds for guns and monsters and explosions than in Doom 3, has better effects for explosions and for guns than in Doom 3, in short, I hope that Doom 4 is WAAAAAYYY better than Doom 3.

However, I hope they atleast make the environments feel real and believable like in Doom 3, whether they're high tech environments or not. And I also hope that they have some high tech bases to explore, but not be trapped in those bases the whole game. They should be a small section of the game, not the whole thing.

[Damien_Azreal]

Originally Posted by Orochi Avlis

I liked Doom 3. It was a nice throw back to the classic. Very atmospheric.
I also liked the expansion.

Agreed.
A much slower pace, but it was still Doom IMO.