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Old 05-16-2009, 09:57 PM   #361
TechAnalyst
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigabite View Post
Valve was in the same boat when they were developing Half-Life 2, all funding for the entire company came out of Gabe Newell's pocket. That was basically a going for broke last ditch effort and it showed on how feverishly they were working on the game. You may also take note that they actually finished the game in a reasonable amount of time.
Valves goal seemed different to me and they were working on a different business model, remember 3DRealms sold the Max Payne IP to take two for some money, which was probably used to keep the company going longer. Dont get me wrong, I personally love Half Life/Hale Life 2, an amazingly well built engine, and for the time amazing capabilities. They also made money by selling the license so saying it was all done from their own pocket is not only NOT accurate, but a plain blunt lie, they also made made by selling to net cafes behind sierras back, allowing source code to get out then mods were sold to make extra money. So no, it was NOT funded from their pocket, they choose to go with a different business model, Im sure 3drealms would have done the same with their DNF license

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigabite View Post
3D Realms has done no such things, and instead replaced work with poor management and outlandish quotes, even 12 years after development started..
Did you see the finished product? none of us know how good it was, we dont know how the SDKs could have been made, we dont know what kind of mods could have been created. They have made BIG promises and I believe they were going to deliver

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigabite View Post
You seem to fail to realize the purpose of a business. A gaming house is no different from any other business, the goal is to make money. Having frivolous ideas for a game that just aren't possible, or you aren't committed to
breaks this bottom line and turns the business into something that's not a business.
I agree with you here and Ive actually posted on this previously, the business model that 3DRealms seems to have continued with is something ID and most of the older studios were doing, self funded and nobody to answer to keeping it about creating games without the corporate BS, however its an ever changing world, the business model doesnt hold up as well as it use to unless you do more than just make a game, ie ID/EPIC/Valve selling engines, licenses etc. 3DRealms was probably planning to do the same, they just took longer using their own money and royalties, imo money eventually runs out, royalties dont pay what they use to. Remember, these guys were making games as the gaming market was evolving so everyone was buying every game at one time, and the millions of folks jumping on the gaming train was once producing retarded amounts of money, these days theres no such thing as fans, loyalty nothing, think of Bioshock for a moment, it sold millions based off the marketing, I have yet to meet anyone that I know that knew that the same people who made bioshock made system shock 2, most never even heard of SS2, so bioshock sold well because the marketing was awesome, not because of fans or loyalty, mass market

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigabite View Post
As for your other two points, it wasn't because they lacked talent, they kept changing engines. In some cases they had a nearly complete game and decided to scrap everything just to get it on a more modern engine. If you commit to an engine and already have the majority of the game done, scrapping the entire thing is a horrible management decision and basically suicide.
What 3DRealms wanted to do, at least on paper, would need more than 5/10 developers, it would need people who brought fresh ideas, after having the same people for nearly 7/8 years im sure they ran out of fresh ideas, so sometimes new people are needed to continue on something new and exciting, not the same old bs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigabite View Post
I'd also like to note that when the Source engine was released, it was already getting outdated, though Valve made the right decision and released it anyway. Instead of scrapping years of hard work, they chose to release it and then make progressive updates to it later on, which lead to the explosive popularity of the engine and subsequent game houses using it to create more games on it.
It might have been outdated, but compared to most other engines it was still better, and easier to work with. So releasing it was still better than not. Also Valve didnt have a previous game, they had to release it, again POOR comparison

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigabite View Post
Like I said before, excuses like this cannot be used for incompetency over the last 12 years.
incompetency? Are you someone who makes games? Do you work in marketing? Are you an artist? What are your qualifications to say something like that?

---------- Post added at 12:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaimie10 View Post

Yeah you're spot on. There have been so many sycophantic comments and threads on this forum defending GB and 3DR. Gb seems to be regarding as some kind of misunderstood genius. But the reality is that he's an egotistical failure. He was responsible for producing DN3D which was fantastic, but that was 14 years ago. He has done nothing since. What is his aim, to make money? To produce the best game ever? To please millions of fans? To produce top quality work that he is proud of? Well he's failed on all fronts in those regards. His arrogance and his total disregard for his loyal fans is pathetic.The whole 'when it's done', the complete lack of development information and then some teaser trailers released years ago.... if this guy was working for any other organisation he and many of the project team members would have been fired for ineptitude. I'm really disappointed that it's unlikely we'll ever get to see this game and although I'm not a gamer or obssessed with specific games, DNF was one game I was really looking forward to seeing. I feel angry that Joe Public has been kept in the dark all this years, not only regarding development, but also about 3DRs financial situation. OK, they are not obligated to tell us they're broke, but please don't release trailers and comment in the media hinting that game is imminent, when it quite clearly isn't. I wish they could be held accountable in some way for their incompetence.
egotistical failure? I read every interviewer on game devs, and I never ONCE recall this being part of his personality? Also I recall TAKE TWO making the promises, all I ever heard from 3drealms was "Its coming along"

---------- Post added at 12:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiminator View Post
if you make promises and consistently fail to deliver then at some point people will stop believing in you. It was apparent that from the 2007 meeting TTWO left with the impression that WID meant that year, whereas for 3DR it meant don't bother us until we hit you up for money again.
Thats what the publisher is there for man :P Provide funds to assist with making the game, getting it into the stores, and marketing
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Old 05-16-2009, 10:01 PM   #362
jaimie10
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
incompetency? Are you someone who makes games? Do you work in marketing? Are you an artist? What are your qualifications to say something like that?
They had 12 years to produce one game, they changed engines multiple times and delayed and delayed. I think 3DR would admit to mis-management and making some bad decisions, others would call it incompetent. I wonder how the developers for the first DNF felt when the game was scrapped, 4 years of work wasted. I'd hazard a guess they'd be using words much harsher than incompetent.
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Old 05-16-2009, 10:05 PM   #363
dino

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
way to deflect questions.
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Old 05-16-2009, 10:07 PM   #364
TechAnalyst
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaimie10 View Post
They had 12 years to produce one game, they changed engines multiple times and delayed and delayed. I think 3DR would admit to mis-management and making some bad decisions, others would call it incompetant. I wonder how the developers for the first DNF felt when the game was scrapped, 4 years of work wasted. I'd hazard a guess they'd be using words much harsher than incompetent.
Ever hear of tunnel vision? See your doctor about it

They changed engines from Quake II to the Unreal and then redesigned the engine and re wrote the code. So they are not just taking an engine and making a mod, they were making their own.

Im sure they were learning from mistakes and learning a lot of new things, it was their OWN money, they can do what they want. I basically buy every new pc component that gets made, whos to say I cant, or judge what I do with my own money? If I wanted to spend my paychecks on cocaine and hookers, whos to say I CANT or Im mis managing my money? Someone who makes less than me? Or someone older than I? Nobody can say shit, unless its YOUR money and when I lasted checked you didnt give them money so you have no right. If you BOUGHT duke nukem 3d, then youve paid and got your product

Well maybe the original Devs didnt share the vision, maybe they were not as into the project, maybe they didnt have the passion
Last edited by TechAnalyst; 05-16-2009 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 05-16-2009, 10:12 PM   #365
Duke's New Chainsaw

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaimie10 View Post
They had 12 years to produce one game, they changed engines multiple times and delayed and delayed. I think 3DR would admit to mis-management and making some bad decisions, others would call it incompetent. I wonder how the developers for the first DNF felt when the game was scrapped, 4 years of work wasted. I'd hazard a guess they'd be using words much harsher than incompetent.
OMFG.

They only changed the engine once.

And who says they kept scrapping everything?

There's a good chance that everything just kept being updated and things redone here and there which resulted in the different look and the game taking so long because George was trying to make the game too perfect.

Also, 3DR has admitted to their faults.
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Old 05-16-2009, 10:16 PM   #366
TechAnalyst
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke's New Chainsaw View Post
OMFG.

They only changed the engine once.

And who says they kept scrapping everything?

There's a good chance that everything just kept being updated and things redone here and there which resulted in the different look and the game taking so long because George was trying to make the game too perfect.

Also, 3DR has admitted to their faults.
You sir read, nice to know theres a few of us on these boards, who did their research

Youve been around awhile

Something else to add when comparing companies, on IDs profile they have 17 job postings, this tells me they have a larger staff (considering 17 job postings is half of 3drealms entire office staff). Obviously this costs more, most costs means more reasons to make a sell

My proof: http://www.idsoftware.com/business/jobs/index.php

Now lets take valve as another example:

http://www.valvesoftware.com/people.html

So there over 80 people there

So id and valve both have at least two to three times the people 3drealms had.

IMO if 3drealms pulled DNF off, then it would be hard to argue that there is a management issue. Issue comes down to economic and changing times
Last edited by TechAnalyst; 05-16-2009 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 05-16-2009, 11:02 PM   #367
theton
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechAnalyst View Post

Im sure they were learning from mistakes and learning a lot of new things, it was their OWN money, they can do what they want. I basically buy every new pc component that gets made, whos to say I cant, or judge what I do with my own money? If I wanted to spend my paychecks on cocaine and hookers, whos to say I CANT or Im mis managing my money?
Well, for startes how about the ******* law??? Yeah, you go ahead and buy all the cocaine you want and stand in front of a judge and use that "Its my money... MINE...ALL MINE, I can use it as I want" as a defense and see how it goes...

Its too funny reading all this posts, most are either blindly defending 3DR or blindly attacking 3DR. None of you know the facts, and instead of making "smart guesses" you fire at one another.

Of course 3DR did not see a penny from the 12m, but they must have seen something when they originally sold the publishing rights, and something when they renegotiated.

You want loyalty in the gaming bussines? Buy original games and never pirate. What more loyalty could any company ask for? I will never cry a tear over a gaming company, I wont curse them or hail them. But what I will never do is pirate a game, never have never will. I only buy originals.

Companys open companys close, thats life. DNF will never be made? tough, but there are more games being made, better? worse? it all depends on the gamer. Enjoy the games, there are so many great games out there. Stop bitching about a game thats only in your heads.
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Old 05-16-2009, 11:13 PM   #368
TechAnalyst
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by theton View Post
Well, for startes how about the ******* law??? Yeah, you go ahead and buy all the cocaine you want and stand in front of a judge and use that "Its my money... MINE...ALL MINE, I can use it as I want" as a defense and see how it goes...
It was an example of using ones money to do whatever they wanted. Nobody can tell you how to use your money. I heard that on an interview "Cocaine and hookers". Look up the Jace Hall show on your tube (Duke Nukem Forever Jace Hall, my quote is from that). Better example, if I wanted to wipe my ass with the money I make and flush it down the flush I can, wait no I cant do that either, ok, if I wanted to get my paychecks and never cash them, thats my business

Quote:
Originally Posted by theton View Post
Its too funny reading all this posts, most are either blindly defending 3DR or blindly attacking 3DR. None of you know the facts, and instead of making "smart guesses" you fire at one another.
I fire at people that post none facts, stating that the engine has been changed a number of times isnt fact, it was changed once. If these people took the time to read about the game or the history they wouldnt be posting bullshit

Quote:
Originally Posted by theton View Post
Of course 3DR did not see a penny from the 12m, but they must have seen something when they originally sold the publishing rights, and something when they renegotiated.
They probably got a LITTLE bit of money, but that was 10+ years ago. We dont know whats in the contract. If two publishers sold rights back and forth you cant point the finger at DNF, they need to look at infrogames and think 12 million for what

Quote:
Originally Posted by theton View Post
You want loyalty in the gaming bussines? Buy original games and never pirate. What more loyalty could any company ask for? I will never cry a tear over a gaming company, I wont curse them or hail them. But what I will never do is pirate a game, never have never will. I only buy originals.
Good stuff, but just because you buy a game it doesnt mean your loyal, it means you bought it for a reason (A review, an ad, word of mouth, you didnt buy it because you liked the franchise or the company who made it)

Quote:
Originally Posted by theton View Post
Companys open companys close, thats life. DNF will never be made? tough, but there are more games being made, better? worse? it all depends on the gamer. Enjoy the games, there are so many great games out there. Stop bitching about a game thats only in your heads.
I posted on that one as well ive had 12 years of many games, its not like ive been waiting 12/13 years for the only game in the world to come out
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Old 05-16-2009, 11:19 PM   #369
Laokin
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Umm... I've read over hundreds of pages of this 3DR is out of money/Take Two battle.... DNF canceled... not canceled speculation... yet, I haven't heard this question asked yet.

Where the **** did all the Duke3DXBLA profit go? It sold 40,000 copies in the FIRST WEEK at what? $15 each? That would add to the sum of $600,000..... Just in the first week.

Surely this sold enough copies to give them the last couple million they needed to stay open. I just don't buy the we are broke argument...... It doesn't just happen like that.

I'm not making any wild speculations, but I do feel like we are being lied too. What we know makes no sense, yet we still gotta wait to find out what the hell is going on. Wish we could get an interview with George or Scott.
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Old 05-16-2009, 11:22 PM   #370
TechAnalyst
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laokin View Post
Umm... I've read over hundreds of pages of this 3DR is out of money/Take Two battle.... DNF canceled... not canceled speculation... yet, I haven't heard this question asked yet.

Where the **** did all the Duke3DXBLA profit go? It sold 40,000 copies in the FIRST WEEK at what? $15 each? That would add to the sum of $600,000..... Just in the first week.

Surely this sold enough copies to give them the last couple million they needed to stay open. I just don't buy the we are broke argument...... It doesn't just happen like that.

I'm not making any wild speculations, but I do feel like we are being lied too. What we know makes no sense, yet we still gotta wait to find out what the hell is going on. Wish we could get an interview with George or Scott.
Do you think that $15 is all theirs? They need to pay microsoft license fees, and resources so they MIGHT make $5/$7 for each sale giving them less than half that money. So it might keep the company going a couple of months but its not a long term solution
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Old 05-17-2009, 12:12 AM   #371
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Exclamation Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
The initial contract is bound to have some set of deliverables associated with the advance. It's difficult to comment without seeing the contract, but not delivering anything probably is an infringement. At the very least, 3DR would have to pay the advance back (how much that was hasn't been made public, but from what Scott has said, it was significantly less than $12,000,000).

Quote:
Originally Posted by v.o View Post
IT WAS SUPPOSED TO TAKE THAT LONG! 3DR WANTED to Make the BEST game EVER, and they said to them Self: Doesn matter how long it takes, we dont give up, we make the BEST game EVER. We make the BEST work of Our Lifes.
Nice. Not true, but nice.

Technology dates and styles/fashions progress. The longer you take, the further you fall behind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TechAnalyst View Post
They changed engines from Quake II to the Unreal and then redesigned the engine and re wrote the code.
Which was a completely unnecessary waste of millions of dollars of work.

DNF has been cancelled. They've proved that their methodology was flawed. Stop trying to excuse a failed stratagem. If they couldn't finish developing a video game in 12 years then they've demonstrated an insane level of incompetence.
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Old 05-17-2009, 12:43 AM   #372
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
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Originally Posted by v.o View Post
YOU DONT ******* GET IT !!!!

IT WAS SUPPOSED TO TAKE THAT LONG! 3DR WANTED to Make the BEST game EVER, and they said to them Self: Doesn matter how long it takes, we dont give up, we make the BEST game EVER. We make the BEST work of Our Lifes.

You dont get it, becouse your Simple ppl, Your forefathers were farmers, Simple/close Minded ppl like you Dont get the concept of lifework. Visionless Morons...
Please, stop.
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Old 05-17-2009, 01:08 AM   #373
Swetsenegger
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechAnalyst View Post
If there was a fixed date, it wasnt missed
money was asked for and denied thats all we know for sure
ORLY? I haven't seen an official statement from 3dr or tt which confirms or denies this. So 'for sure' is very relative.
Last edited by Swetsenegger; 05-17-2009 at 01:19 AM.
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Old 05-17-2009, 02:23 AM   #374
Joel

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by v.o View Post
You dont get it ! they didn just Close spontaneously, Lame Two Made them Close !

3DR is about to finish it, then George Bussard gambles and gets in deep with sharks, one day take2 carve his face.
And they got no money for surgeries, they can't take it, they just wanna see us smile again and we just want them to know that we don't care about the scars.
So.... i stick a razor in my mouth... and do this, to myself. And you know what... he can't stand the sight of me! he leaves Now i see the funny side... now were always whaiting.

Yeeep, it sure is a different town now that the sheriff (Joe) has left. Time for some backup:


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Old 05-17-2009, 02:44 AM   #375
Candyman

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
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Originally Posted by Mcclure5 View Post
Regardless of any information, regardless if they did sit around for 12 years putting out only 3 trailers. When you (the people bitching) develope something that is as extraordinary as Duke Nukem 3D, then 13 years later introduce it to the Xbox 360 and get INSANE results, and call for a sequal that you want perfect BECAUSE it was your ONLY legacy in life to do that, then, THEN, you can bitch. This man George has dedicated 14 years of life to a video game. WHO else has done that? not 5000 hours, not making a mod, a GAME. This game is undoubtably the largest game character in history in FPS's. The popularity of Duke Nukem's character, the demise of this franchise, the long awaited game. No one has ever tried this hard. Ever.
Ok lets assume you are right. So, can someone tell me where the hell is that bloody game after all?
I cannot always and forever believe what 3DR says... How to put it more politely? I am too old for this s**t!!!
You know i am Greek.. Our anchestors used to say about such situations: "Το δις εξαμαρτείν ουκ ανδρός σοφού" which means (in free translation): "if someone makes the exact same mistake twice then it is a sign of stupidity".
You said no one ever tried this hard... How can u possibly know how hard they were trying? Well i don't know, how you can be so sure? Did you were working there?
All we have seen is 3 trailers with a large timelapse between them (1998, 2001, 2008).... They 've even admit in humorous fashion that one of the reasons for the delays was "WoW".
It wasn't bad managment some people say.. So what it was then? Bad luck?


Quote:
Everyone that is here is here because at one point in time they wanted this game, 99% of you still want it, I still want it. I am working damn near full time (even at work) to get this thing on CNN's Twitter blog. I really and honest to God believe if we get this noticed nation or world wide, it can be revised.
Obviously the world has no more serious problems than DNF release. You really believe that if you do what you say, will happen what exactly? I don't think the future of DNF has anything to do or is depended on what is the fanbase opinion anymore. You know, it has been 12-13 years allready full of empty promises. You want to wait another 12 years! Well it is up to you. Personally i will not!

Quote:
There is a petition and a webstie (savedukenukem) com (in case of blocks) ... even you people that dislike apogee.. and there are many because of this time frame..... even you guys can help make this bitch session a reality.
Petition? First of all most people who write here must propably know about it since day one. But i'm not gonna give my money to some guy who just put up a petition website! Are YOU gonna do it?

Lets be serious!!!!


P.S. Sorry if i appear angry, i am just sad and feeling deceived, that's all.
Last edited by Candyman; 05-17-2009 at 03:17 AM.
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Old 05-17-2009, 04:02 AM   #376
Mcclure5
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Leaked footage. Anyone on here who uses maya or have ever used any SDK for the unreal engine knows how close they are. The most difficult part in my opinion is the animations and texturing. Seeing as there was about nine levels in the leaked footage and six "monster" models (not including boss type characters), that only leaves level design.... and i promise you.. fact, FACT... (want my proof, go to any modder website forum) people do NOT delete 5 months of work because they scrap the map, the always keep them for fresh ideas. I am not going to spend the time finding the damned qoute by scott, but its on duke4.net. He said that basically they were going to release the game anyway regardless because some contract doesnt say that they can't digitity sell it.

Really, people bashing, people defending, either way it goes and damn the facts, i know for a fact this game will be released...
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Old 05-17-2009, 04:12 AM   #377
Candyman

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
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Originally Posted by Mcclure5 View Post
Really, people bashing, people defending, either way it goes and damn the facts, i know for a fact this game will be released...
I hope you are right.
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Old 05-17-2009, 04:42 AM   #378
v.o
 
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mcclure5 View Post
Leaked footage. Anyone on here who uses maya or have ever used any SDK
Your Outdated dude, and also data.

These were made in 3DsMax, Zbrush for High Mesh, Motionbuilder. In these days, you dont even make the Buildings, Bridges etc in the SDK, you make them in 3Ds. The landscape are made with Highmaps, i think. so Yea,
Just outdated old Retards, use Maya. Maya is Dead. Deal with it. Learn Zbrush, Mudbox.
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Old 05-17-2009, 05:23 AM   #379
Altered Reality

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
incompetency? Are you someone who makes games? Do you work in marketing? Are you an artist? What are your qualifications to say something like that?
You don't need any qualification to know that 3DRealms has been incompetent, just like you don't have to be a master cook (and not even have any personal experience) to know that a dog shit sandwich is disgusting.
Competent software houses like Valve, EA and Rockstar released great games with no delay, and no game released by them was in development for 12 years.
On the contrary, 3DRealms admit to have restarted development from scratch THREE TIMES: one in 1998, one in 2003 and one in 2007. That is definitely incompetence in my book. Take2 should've sued them in 2003 when the second restart took place, they waited far too long.
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Old 05-17-2009, 05:27 AM   #380
Tjals
Post Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Hi everyone,

I just wanted to make a personal note, because I'm pretty sure many of you guys here on the forums will feel exactly the same. Especially those of us who have been around for a while.

I've been a Duke fan ever since the early 90s: Duke 1, 2, 3D: all played them like crazy. I was a reasonably active poster here on the forums for a little while, but then resumed back to anonimity. Meanwhile I've gone through elementary school, all of high school, and now nearly graduating from university. Through that track, Duke has always been a highlight in computer entertainment for me.

All of these recent developments evoke a lot of different reactions: Disillusion and dissapointment. Confusion. Anger. And so many more. All of these emotions are to be expected and respected.

As a fan, I would like to finish this post by expressing 1 request and 2 wishes.
- Firstly, I would like to request 3DR (Apogee) and T2 clarity on the fate of Duke Nukem Forever as soon as possible.
- Secondly, I wish to express the hope that this fate of DNF is indeed positive. That it will see the light of day. Preferably from the hand of 3DR, otherwise by another party that is committed to make it an excellent game like 3DR would. It would be an eternal pity if such a strong franchise (I believe one of the very strongest in the industry) would never be finished.
- Thirdly, I wish 3DR and all of its staff - despite errors made - all the best in whatever is next.

So, in short, my fan's plee is: please provide clarity, please don't let DNF die, and good luck in the future!

Tjals
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Old 05-17-2009, 05:47 AM   #381
jimbob

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
so where is that crysis mod this 3dmodeler would do on his own?

is it done yet?

can we get some screenshots?
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Old 05-17-2009, 06:12 AM   #382
Joel

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
so where is that crysis mod this 3dmodeler would do on his own?

is it done yet?

can we get some screenshots?
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Old 05-17-2009, 06:44 AM   #383
Sharpie

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laokin View Post
Umm... I've read over hundreds of pages of this 3DR is out of money/Take Two battle.... DNF canceled... not canceled speculation... yet, I haven't heard this question asked yet.

Where the **** did all the Duke3DXBLA profit go? It sold 40,000 copies in the FIRST WEEK at what? $15 each? That would add to the sum of $600,000..... Just in the first week.

Surely this sold enough copies to give them the last couple million they needed to stay open. I just don't buy the we are broke argument...... It doesn't just happen like that.

I'm not making any wild speculations, but I do feel like we are being lied too. What we know makes no sense, yet we still gotta wait to find out what the hell is going on. Wish we could get an interview with George or Scott.
This.
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Old 05-17-2009, 06:56 AM   #384
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altered Reality View Post
You don't need any qualification to know that 3DRealms has been incompetent, just like you don't have to be a master cook (and not even have any personal experience) to know that a dog shit sandwich is disgusting.
Competent software houses like Valve, EA and Rockstar released great games with no delay, and no game released by them was in development for 12 years.
On the contrary, 3DRealms admit to have restarted development from scratch THREE TIMES: one in 1998, one in 2003 and one in 2007. That is definitely incompetence in my book. Take2 should've sued them in 2003 when the second restart took place, they waited far too long.
Totally agree. I am gobsmacked that people are still supporting GB and 3DR. Maybe they are in denial? All these sad little excuses, "it hasn't been 12 years, they restarted the project with different engines" blah blah blah "in fact it's only been 2 years and they are totally on track" blah blah blah. Yeah they never said when it would be released with their puerile "when it's done" epitaph done, but they were quite happy to take other peoples money with false promises. I'm glad 3DR have gone bust and I hope in a way that DNF is never released. I don't want the DNF team to have any satisfaction, any glory, any pride. They don't deserve any. They were making DNF for themselves. That is why I accused GB and co of arrogance and narcissism in a previous post. They were totally obssessed with producing this amazing 'perfect' game that they lost sight of the big picture i.e actually producing a game as opposed to half a game. How anyone can defend 3DR is beyond me. They've had 12 years to produce a product and they have not delivered. Why? "Oh because Gb is like really smart and clever and stuff and he's just you know like developing the game and changing stuff and getting sum real good gaming stuff together. It's not like his fault, you know he's just misunderstood". Rightio. Now where's the game?
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Old 05-17-2009, 06:57 AM   #385
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
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Originally Posted by TechAnalyst View Post

IMO if 3drealms pulled DNF off, then it would be hard to argue that there is a management issue. Issue comes down to economic and changing times
Which any half decent project manager should have recognized would eventually be a problem for them. In the last 100 years the US has never gone more than a decade without an economic recession of some sort. Changing economic conditions HAVE to be taken into account. This is EXACTLY why projects of this sort should NEVER be stretched out over such a protracted timeline. You are relying on economic conditions to remain the same as the "fat" times in which you started the project, and that shows a basic lack of understanding of how the market works which = incompetance in project design and management. Does it mean the people involved are bad people? No, of course not. It just means they weren't very realistic in the business model they attempted to use.

The results (or lack thereof) speak for themselves. How anyone can remain an apologist of this methodology for bringing a game to market is beyond me. It is a shame for everyone involved.
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Old 05-17-2009, 06:59 AM   #386
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Goofy Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
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Originally Posted by Sharpie View Post
This.
I agree.
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Old 05-17-2009, 07:31 AM   #387
prophecy holder

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altered Reality View Post
You don't need any qualification to know that 3DRealms has been incompetent, just like you don't have to be a master cook (and not even have any personal experience) to know that a dog shit sandwich is disgusting.
Competent software houses like Valve, EA and Rockstar released great games with no delay, and no game released by them was in development for 12 years.
On the contrary, 3DRealms admit to have restarted development from scratch THREE TIMES: one in 1998, one in 2003 and one in 2007. That is definitely incompetence in my book. Take2 should've sued them in 2003 when the second restart took place, they waited far too long.
Quoted for Truth.
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Old 05-17-2009, 07:40 AM   #388
LadiesAndGentlemen
 
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Seriously, you guys need to stfu, IMO. It's over, go do something else with your lives.
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Old 05-17-2009, 08:00 AM   #389
RuskiSnajper.

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
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Originally Posted by TechAnalyst View Post
Did you see the finished product? none of us know how good it was, we dont know how the SDKs could have been made, we dont know what kind of mods could have been created. They have made BIG promises and I believe they were going to deliver



I agree with you here and Ive actually posted on this previously, the business model that 3DRealms seems to have continued with is something ID and most of the older studios were doing, self funded and nobody to answer to keeping it about creating games without the corporate BS, however its an ever changing world, the business model doesnt hold up as well as it use to unless you do more than just make a game, ie ID/EPIC/Valve selling engines, licenses etc. 3DRealms was probably planning to do the same, they just took longer using their own money and royalties, imo money eventually runs out, royalties dont pay what they use to. Remember, these guys were making games as the gaming market was evolving so everyone was buying every game at one time, and the millions of folks jumping on the gaming train was once producing retarded amounts of money, these days theres no such thing as fans, loyalty nothing, think of Bioshock for a moment, it sold millions based off the marketing, I have yet to meet anyone that I know that knew that the same people who made bioshock made system shock 2, most never even heard of SS2, so bioshock sold well because the marketing was awesome, not because of fans or loyalty, mass market



What 3DRealms wanted to do, at least on paper, would need more than 5/10 developers, it would need people who brought fresh ideas, after having the same people for nearly 7/8 years im sure they ran out of fresh ideas, so sometimes new people are needed to continue on something new and exciting, not the same old bs



It might have been outdated, but compared to most other engines it was still better, and easier to work with. So releasing it was still better than not. Also Valve didnt have a previous game, they had to release it, again POOR comparison



incompetency? Are you someone who makes games? Do you work in marketing? Are you an artist? What are your qualifications to say something like that?

---------- Post added at 12:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 AM ----------



egotistical failure? I read every interviewer on game devs, and I never ONCE recall this being part of his personality? Also I recall TAKE TWO making the promises, all I ever heard from 3drealms was "Its coming along"

---------- Post added at 12:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 AM ----------



Thats what the publisher is there for man :P Provide funds to assist with making the game, getting it into the stores, and marketing

you are spamming the forums with some unproven facts , that actually don't have any sense at all whatsoever.

Why are you against the game and the developers so much , just go if you don't like it here.
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Old 05-17-2009, 08:10 AM   #390
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
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Originally Posted by RuskiSnajper. View Post
Why are you against the game and the developers so much , just go if you don't like it here.
If anything he's been extremely accommodating. I think you quoted the wrong person.
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Old 05-17-2009, 08:24 AM   #391
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
NO 30Million$ offer ??? says 3drealms

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58664
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Old 05-17-2009, 08:37 AM   #392
TechAnalyst
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by RuskiSnajper. View Post
you are spamming the forums with some unproven facts , that actually don't have any sense at all whatsoever.

Why are you against the game and the developers so much , just go if you don't like it here.
WTF did you read that? I was responding to someone elses negative COMMENTS LEARN TO READ

Oh yes you :P The guy that said George should take donations as a way to finish a corproate product (Federal Crime). Nice, and I put down unproven facts, you just flat out tell people to commit fraud

---------- Post added at 11:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derfernet View Post
If anything he's been extremely accommodating. I think you quoted the wrong person.
Thanks man, but that guy has no idea how the corporate world works, he was saying in another thread that 3drealms should take donations from the community for commerical paper use :P Not only is that a max 20 year sentence, but a fine 250k+

He doesnt READ facts, he doesnt do his homework by reading old postings, he just responds like hes still living with his parents

In regards to donations, I wanted to warn people that other will try to take advantage and put money in their OWN pocket, his guy above just attacked me over it, I also pointed out the legal issues

And like everyone else here, just throwing in my opinion, like everyone else
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:01 AM   #393
Razorback

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
I guess instead of working on DNF for 12~ years, now they will be working on thier court cases for 12 years. It seems right after dragging us fans along for such a long time with no good results.

BTW, somebody in 3DREALMS knew this was coming, yet they still didn't finish the game in time to save themselves! It makes you wonder how far away they still were from a finished product?
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:02 AM   #394
prophecy holder

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorback View Post
I guess instead of working on DNF for 12~ years, now they will be working on thier court cases for 12 years. It seems right after dragging us fans along for such a long time with no good results.

BTW, somebody in 3DREALMS knew this was coming, yet they still didn't finish the game in time to save themselves! It makes you wonder how far away they still were from a finished product?
Court date session: When we want to.
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:07 AM   #395
Razorback

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
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Originally Posted by prophecy holder View Post
Court date session: When we wan't to.
I hate to tell 3DR that the courts don't work like that, at least for the defendant!
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:08 AM   #396
dinwitty
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
shweeooe, reading all the news and such and comments, it still looks like DNF is still a game thats going to get out. I just want all the nonsense to cease and let the development process go at it and get the game out. Oh well, let the controversy carry on, it just brings more attention to the game. Battle on T2/3Dr.
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:12 AM   #397
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
I still hope take2 will be ruled to stfu.
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:16 AM   #398
Razorback

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinwitty View Post
shweeooe, reading all the news and such and comments, it still looks like DNF is still a game thats going to get out. <snip> Battle on T2/3Dr.
If it does come out, I doubt it will be the same game. It will be on rails like most other console games. Who knows, it might even come out as a gutted console only game. To me that woudln't be a Duke Nukem game I care to play!
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:20 AM   #399
TechAnalyst
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thriller View Post
I still hope take2 will be ruled to stfu.
Lol, that wont be the case

3DRealms still promised a game to GT, and whoever bought that contract became the publisher so something is Owed

Unless there was a specific date, 3drealms could take forever to create the game. KNowing their past i doubt they agreed to a date

Also this ONLY looks good for take two if 3drealms stated DNF is done.
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Old 05-17-2009, 09:25 AM   #400
RuskiSnajper.

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechAnalyst View Post
WTF did you read that? I was responding to someone elses negative COMMENTS LEARN TO READ

Oh yes you :P The guy that said George should take donations as a way to finish a corproate product (Federal Crime). Nice, and I put down unproven facts, you just flat out tell people to commit fraud

---------- Post added at 11:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 AM ----------



Thanks man, but that guy has no idea how the corporate world works, he was saying in another thread that 3drealms should take donations from the community for commerical paper use :P Not only is that a max 20 year sentence, but a fine 250k+

He doesnt READ facts, he doesnt do his homework by reading old postings, he just responds like hes still living with his parents

In regards to donations, I wanted to warn people that other will try to take advantage and put money in their OWN pocket, his guy above just attacked me over it, I also pointed out the legal issues

And like everyone else here, just throwing in my opinion, like everyone else

i didn't read the quoted quote

What the end of it then , your overreacting stuff , saying that they threw people out cause they were drained from fresh ideas last 8 years is really weird.


And look I'm 19, that's low in our way of life here , ... thus i don't remotely have any idea about these laws of donations or what the heck it is. I never heard of it here. Never anywhere else. If that's true there , no offence, but i have to say that's one really stupid law. Just makes good for the government and their plans. There are dumb laws, the worst part of it people don't resist it. That's why government can say pretty much everything and people will obey, thus dumb law from my view point. Not to mention other stuff , like , well , I'm not going to flame bait stuff...

One of the dumbest laws is weapon legalization.
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