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Old 06-23-2009, 02:08 AM   #961
LeonZyCoene
Re: 3D realms Countersues !
Quote:
Originally Posted by prophecy holder View Post
DNF delayed for 12 years
DNB delayed for 12 months

I see a pattern going on with the Duke nukem franchise.
Lol, it took you twelve years to catch that?

Ramans do everything in threes.

O.o

Oh, and by the way...

F*** YEAH, 3DR!!!

KICK TAKE TWO IN THE F***ING KIDNEYS!!!
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Old 06-23-2009, 02:10 AM   #962
lordlonelobo

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
The Dark Nukem.
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Old 06-23-2009, 02:26 AM   #963
Thriller

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Re: 3D realms Countersues !
Yeah, I think they´ll do fine in this one.

Its too bad its causing even more delayes though.
Worst case scenario is eveything is scratched and we have to wait atleast 3 more years for the next Duke game.
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Old 06-23-2009, 03:03 AM   #964
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Re: 3D realms Countersues !
Although this was almost the worst way to hear about this (other then the games being flat out cancelled) its good to know Duke was making a come back in a HUGE way.

First Duke XBLA

Then 3 games for the PSP/DS

And 3 mobile games

Duke Nukem Forever PC, then later Xbox

And Duke Nukem Begins, a game that would have 3 years of development by a "Well known" developer (That hopefully isn't Treyarch)

It sounds to me that, given this new knowledge, the two major games are being delayed from their supposed deadlines (DNF by April of next year, DNB by summer of next year). Plus, we would have one PSP/DS game before then, and the others coming out that year/the next. Then the other mobile games.

2010 would've been one bitching good year.
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Old 06-23-2009, 03:11 AM   #965
hightreason

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Re: 3D realms Countersues !
Hmm, i've been without the internet for a while, and i turn it back on to find this.

Cmon 3D Realms, kick Take 2 in the balls!
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Old 06-23-2009, 03:23 AM   #966
DerricktheW

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Re: 3D realms Countersues !
Take Two has balls of ste... dollars.
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:09 AM   #967
Mackan
Re: 3D realms Countersues !
Duke Nukem Forever
Duke Nukem Begins
Duke Nukem Returns

Yep, they sure could have a cool series of Duke games coming. But... they aren't. Stuck in lawsuits and crap.
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:28 AM   #968
Xefaros

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Re: 3D realms Countersues !
how we missed the duke nukem begins?And from what "respectfull producer" it is under development??
(At least we know that not everything is entirly over hehe)
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:43 AM   #969
Angelo86

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Re: 3D realms Countersues !
and the leaked story? i suppose to restart the full game and we must wait more 12 years, and then many employee are goes away we can put too 24 years and it will be not the same that why the best employee will not back
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Old 06-23-2009, 05:08 AM   #970
Caine

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Re: 3D realms Countersues !
oh guys, do you really think they would have finished it soon?
i guess, not.......
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Old 06-23-2009, 06:31 AM   #971
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Re: 3D realms Countersues !
I don't see how the game will finish without a development team now. Even if it sort of became a volunteer project from former members of staff the production of this game will have slowed down so much that by the time it is about to come out it will be horribly outdated, scrapped and started again.
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Old 06-23-2009, 06:56 AM   #972
mysteryperfecta

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inanimate Carbon Rod View Post
Shelf life likely refers to the games graphics, which at their current state would be outdated by 2012.
3dr had until October 2012 to release DNF within the stipulations that they and Take2 agreed upon. That's over 3 years away. It would be difficult for Take2 to argue that there's no scenario in which 3dr could have resumed development of DNF between now and then.

Quote:
In making the deal Take Two had a reasonable expectation of profits and they have a right to recoup those profits. We call that their expectancy interest.
Every investor ever has a reasonable expectation of return on their investment, or they wouldn't invest. Add to that the fact that Take2 invested knowingly in a mismanaged project. They were so aware, in fact, that they added a contingency in the contract that allowed them the right to recoup investment + interest 5 YEARS after the contract was signed, in case 3dr couldn't complete the game. They shouldn't have put themselves in a position to rely on expectancy to ask for speculative profits.
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:22 AM   #973
Saul
Re: 3D realms Countersues !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelo86 View Post
and the leaked story? i suppose to restart the full game and we must wait more 12 years, and then many employee are goes away we can put too 24 years and it will be not the same that why the best employee will not back
Why does everyone make a big deal of this?

OH NOS, TEH STOREY IS RELIESED! WE HAEV TO REDOES GAEM NOW!
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:55 AM   #974
FlashBack
 
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
I think Duke Nukem Begins is supposed to be a prequel to dn3d or to the whole duke nukem series maybe? Dr. Proton anybody?
Also is it known if Duke Nukem Begins was supposed to be released on pc and if yes then what kind of game was it, a third person or an fps?
Would love if Duke Nukem Begins is a gory and much more serious game, like crysis for ex! When I say "more serious like crysis" I mean that I would love a duke game with emphasis on the seriousness of the alien invasion like the one found in crysis for ex.
Given that the SF element in the DN3D game is there just for an excuse to blow shit up and, I would like a variation in the game style in another duke game made by a company that is good at making serious fps games. Would love to have Duke Nukem Forever to please original dn3d fans in it's traditional way and a sober serious duke nukem game made by another studio to give a new ambient to the duke nukem universe an dhave him say serious lines and shit haha!
I would kill to play these 2 new duke nukem games.
One which is serious and one which is spiritual to dn3d.
Hell I would even love it if Duke Nukem Begins is in the same style as DNF but treats the Dr. Proton story
Last edited by FlashBack; 06-23-2009 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 06-23-2009, 11:27 AM   #975
Inanimate Carbon Rod

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysteryperfecta View Post
3dr had until October 2012 to release DNF within the stipulations that they and Take2 agreed upon. That's over 3 years away.
They had until october 2012 to pay back the loan, not to release DNF. Why would a entity lend another money without a due date for said money? No one would and no one does.

Quote:
It would be difficult for Take2 to argue that there's no scenario in which 3dr could have resumed development of DNF between now and then.
How many dev studios shut down and then restart to release a AAA game that 3DR had been promising?

Quote:
Every investor ever has a reasonable expectation of return on their investment, or they wouldn't invest.
3DR sold the rights to publish DNF to take 2. They formed a contract. If anything Take 2 has acted beyond what has been expected of them, by not taking a stand before now.
I'm guessing you haven't taken a contract law class, but when a date is not fixed for the fulfillment of a contract that date is set by the court by what is commercially reasonable for the given trade. In the video game development trade no game takes anywhere near this long for development.
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Old 06-23-2009, 03:35 PM   #976
inatspong
Re: 3D realms Countersues !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackan View Post
Duke Nukem Forever
Duke Nukem Begins
Duke Nukem Returns

Yep, they sure could have a cool series of Duke games coming. But... they aren't. Stuck in lawsuits and crap.
Am I the only one seeing Duke Nukem games being named after Batman movies?
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Old 06-23-2009, 04:01 PM   #977
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Re: 3D realms Countersues !
Quote:
Originally Posted by inatspong View Post
Am I the only one seeing Duke Nukem games being named after Batman movies?
Considering you quoted someone else, that should answer your question :P
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:04 PM   #978
Kev_Hectic

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Arrow Re: 3D realms Countersues !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legopilot View Post
Eat sh#$% and die Take 2 ! Duke lives forever

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1154

This doesn't seem like anything to get exited over... only on paper does Duke Nukem Forever live on. But the reality of it, they're still bankrupt and George has no team to continue development. Even the original Prey was never officially canceled, it was announced as being "on hold indefinitely", until Human Head picked up development again years after. No surprise that George wouldn't give up on the game that easily... not after the 12 years he invested into it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodenSword View Post
Duke nukem "forever"
Duke "begins"

LOL!!!!

Duke 6 will be "The Dark Duke"

EDIT: On topic, this is a legal document.
They can't say, "no we are not working for DNF anymore".They would lose the case. Their answer was predictable and means nothing (good or bad)
Duke Begins sounds like the start of a spin off series to me... If anything DNF should be ended with the sequel: "Duke Nukem and Robin" (Robin being a former Hooters waitress who joins forces with Duke), then "Duke begins" should be followed up with: "The Duke Knight".
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Old 06-23-2009, 08:28 PM   #979
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
...or Dr.Phil's spouse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inanimate Carbon Rod View Post
They had until october 2012 to pay back the loan, not to release DNF. Why would a entity lend another money without a due date for said money? No one would and no one does.
What suggests that 3D Realms & Take Two didn't have "due date" included in their discussions of the financing?
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Old 06-24-2009, 03:04 AM   #980
Xefaros

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
The patern will go like this duke begins gets released and the invest money to dnf for 12 more years or maybe not..

offtopic:i would love idtech 5 or crytek 3 for duke begins...pls?
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Old 06-24-2009, 03:34 AM   #981
lordlonelobo

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Why would Duke Begins be coming out? They said it was delayed, and we hadn't even heard of it until now.

Don't get your hopes up.
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Old 06-24-2009, 07:41 AM   #982
mysteryperfecta

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inanimate Carbon Rod View Post
They had until october 2012 to pay back the loan, not to release DNF. Why would a entity lend another money without a due date for said money? No one would and no one does.
From 3dr's court filing:

"In the event that the DNF game was not commercially released by October 22, 2012, then and only then, the $2,500,000 advance became due and payable, but only to the extent that this advance had not already been recouped from royalties from sales of the new Duke Nukem-based game."

In essence, we're both right. With the new Duke game canceled, the payback date became the defacto release date (approximately).


Quote:
How many dev studios shut down and then restart to release a AAA game that 3DR had been promising?
Games have been transferred to other studios on several occasions. Not under these exact circumstances, but still.

Quote:
I'm guessing you haven't taken a contract law class, but when a date is not fixed for the fulfillment of a contract that date is set by the court by what is commercially reasonable for the given trade. In the video game development trade no game takes anywhere near this long for development.
A date was fixed for the fulfillment of the contract. Are you suggesting that a judge would be required to assess the current state of DNF, estimate the time needed to finish the game, determine the odds that DNF would be completed under present circumstances, and then determine whether 3dr would meet their future contractual obligations?

The $2,500,000 is not really at issue here, unless Take2 wants it NOW instead of waiting until the payback deadline passes. The real issue is the source code and the payment of potential profits. Those are real longshots, imo. The "expectancy interest" you asserted, in my research, plays a role predominantly in divorce and inheritance cases.

Pointing to a protracted development cycle is problematic, considering that the development was protracted long before Take2 signed NEW deals and lent NEW monies to 3dr.
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Old 06-24-2009, 02:09 PM   #983
Pikachu
 
Re: 3D realms Countersues !
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonZyCoene View Post
Lol, it took you twelve years to catch that?

Ramans do everything in threes.

O.o

Oh, and by the way...

F*** YEAH, 3DR!!!

KICK TAKE TWO IN THE F***ING KIDNEYS!!!
be quiet juggalo nobody wants your clownshoes here
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Old 06-24-2009, 03:03 PM   #984
Inanimate Carbon Rod

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
A date was fixed for the fulfillment of the contract. Are you suggesting that a judge would be required to assess the current state of DNF, estimate the time needed to finish the game, determine the odds that DNF would be completed under present circumstances, and then determine whether 3dr would meet their future contractual obligations?
Yes and no. A judge would get examples from the game industry and develop a "reasonable time" for development. Anyway, under present circumstances 3DR is incapable of developing the game themselves.

Quote:

The $2,500,000 is not really at issue here, unless Take2 wants it NOW instead of waiting until the payback deadline passes. The real issue is the source code and the payment of potential profits. Those are real longshots, imo.
The 2.5mil is at issue. 3DR is not solvent anymore and Take 2 does not have to wait to try and recoup what is owed to them. The only way for Take 2 to recoup is to sue for other property owned by 3dr, ie the Duke Ip and DNF. The Duke IP is a long shot, but Take2 being awarded DNF and the source code so that they can give it to another capable developer is entirely probable. 3DR would likely still get some profits post release, but obviously substantially less than if they had finished development themselves.

Something for you to read. I can't copy and paste out of my contracts book which does a substantially better job of explanation than I, however trying to synthesize a year of contract law into a paragraph is somewhat difficult.
http://home.uchicago.edu/~jmellis/ex...20damages.html overly simplistic, but it is just a general overview.
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Old 06-24-2009, 03:15 PM   #985
BadScout

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caine View Post
oh guys, do you really think they would have finished it soon?
i guess, not.......
Guess what you want. But not until recently, you're starting to annoy & bore me. Not that I'm still reading the DNF section that much. But next time you take on your negative spewage you're plonked. Yes, my postcount is minimal, and you won't care. Me neither. Might even register @duke4 only to be able to plonk you there and the ones like you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelo86 View Post
and the leaked story? i suppose to restart the full game and we must wait more 12 years
Angelo, think more positive. Who cares about that Excel sheet anyway? With breaks I was lurking at these forums almost since the very beginning. And still, while I was watching the shots and demo reel, I kept away from that Excel sheet. Not. interested. at. all. It's probably just a design doc of WIP. Those tend to live, and change. Don't worry 'bout the story, I tend to believe only a minimal amount of people actually cared about that sheet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by conantheking View Post
I don't see how the game will finish without a development team now. Even if it sort of became a volunteer project from former members of staff the production of this game will have slowed down so much that by the time it is about to come out it will be horribly outdated, scrapped and started again.
Yup, wait until the legal mumbo jumbo is over. Then, it's let's see, again.
Volunteering won't happen. People need to get greens for their living. Only if they've got too much spare time on their hands. But I doubt that.
Why would it be outdated? Graphics? I don't really care. It looks good enough for years to come judging by the demo reel. What more do you need? It only got to be aesthetically pleasing overall. A good story doesn't age, admittedly only if they've come up with one. But we'd only know if it will ever be released.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inatspong View Post
Am I the only one seeing Duke Nukem games being named after Batman movies?
Nope. But rest assured, you aren't the only one not grasping what "working title" means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xefaros View Post
offtopic:i would love idtech 5 or crytek 3 for duke begins...pls?
Explain yourself. Why would you want that? Just because they might be well known and used a lot? Meh. Rather give me something original. E.g., take a look at MP1&2 or Mafia, or... Besides, the MP story was something refreshing, too. Especially with all those norse references. But that just might be me. And distinct art and overall style. I still think that's one of the reasons why I loved MP 1&2 that much. IMHO, to me it looked different than what was out there at the time. I wasn't paying that much attention to polygon count or whatever anyway. It always was the overall look to me that did it. Might be the same with the NOLFs for me. That some kind of distinct art style, humor, story telling.


So, now we've got T2's original filing and 3DR's counter - remember, Scott himself wrote something along the lines of "legal filings... knee-deep BS". Take both doc's with a grain of salt, the truth's probably somewhere in between. And "between" depends on your own estimation. Just wait what any assigned judge will rule depending on the actual contracts/agreements being referenced.

No smilies for a reason. I'm pretty serious. But still might change my mind upon further info. But right now, that's what I think. But I'm always willing to change my mind.

Blargh. Whatever.
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Old 06-24-2009, 03:17 PM   #986
mysteryperfecta

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Thanks for the responses, ICR. Its a complicated matter, and will be interesting to see how it plays out.
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Old 06-24-2009, 10:46 PM   #987
LeonZyCoene
Re: 3D realms Countersues !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikachu View Post
be quiet juggalo nobody wants your clownshoes here
Oh, God, please don't tell me I inadvertently said something by the Insane Clown Posse

I am ashamed :'(
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Old 06-25-2009, 12:10 AM   #988
AdrianGuenter
Re: 3D realms Countersues !
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonZyCoene View Post
Oh, God, please don't tell me I inadvertently said something by the Insane Clown Posse

I am ashamed :'(


You fail!
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Old 06-25-2009, 05:46 AM   #989
Xefaros

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadScout View Post
Explain yourself. Why would you want that? Just because they might be well known and used a lot? Meh. Rather give me something original. E.g., take a look at MP1&2 or Mafia, or... Besides, the MP story was something refreshing, too. Especially with all those norse references. But that just might be me. And distinct art and overall style. I still think that's one of the reasons why I loved MP 1&2 that much. IMHO, to me it looked different than what was out there at the time. I wasn't paying that much attention to polygon count or whatever anyway. It always was the overall look to me that did it. Might be the same with the NOLFs for me. That some kind of distinct art style, humor, story telling.


So, now we've got T2's original filing and 3DR's counter - remember, Scott himself wrote something along the lines of "legal filings... knee-deep BS". Take both doc's with a grain of salt, the truth's probably somewhere in between. And "between" depends on your own estimation. Just wait what any assigned judge will rule depending on the actual contracts/agreements being referenced.

No smilies for a reason. I'm pretty serious. But still might change my mind upon further info. But right now, that's what I think. But I'm always willing to change my mind.

Blargh. Whatever.
duke begins is said to be under development from an outside(not 3dreals or take 2) studio.So i would prefer id or crytek not other studios to build it.
And no game till now was released with these game engine so in that way it will couse more people to try it.Even though i dont have a pc to meet that req i would prefer it for the duke francise.
(id tech 5 games:doom 4,rage.crytek engine 3:crysis 2)
Edit:+it will make some people stop b*tchin about the graphs
Last edited by Xefaros; 06-25-2009 at 05:54 AM.
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Old 06-25-2009, 08:35 AM   #990
prophecy holder

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Re: 3D realms Countersues !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul View Post
Why does everyone make a big deal of this?

OH NOS, TEH STOREY IS RELIESED! WE HAEV TO REDOES GAEM NOW!
The first time you play a game you dont expect what to happen and will be suprised by what you see. If you know the story and everything about the game before its released then it wont have that same punch as before.

Would you go to the theatres to watch a movie you already know everything about?
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:56 AM   #991
Monkey Butler
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
You mean like seeing a movie a second time? Yeah, I'm pretty sure that happens.
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Old 06-25-2009, 11:26 AM   #992
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
the screenplay of nearly every film is readable before release... most people just don't do it...
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Old 06-25-2009, 03:34 PM   #993
Ward
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
About time they did this in my opinion, no mather how much i liked duke3d.

I hope whoever is responsible for all the continued delays will finally have to come up with some amswers. I feel bad for employees that wasted their time at 3DR, goodluck with finding a new job!
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:12 AM   #994
Pikachu
 
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ward View Post
About time they did this in my opinion, no mather how much i liked duke3d.

I hope whoever is responsible for all the continued delays will finally have to come up with some amswers. I feel bad for employees that wasted their time at 3DR, goodluck with finding a new job!
Waste their time? It's not like they weren't paid for the work they did, it's just that they can't be paid anymore.
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:29 AM   #995
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Re: 3D realms Countersues !
Quote:
Originally Posted by prophecy holder View Post
The first time you play a game you dont expect what to happen and will be suprised by what you see. If you know the story and everything about the game before its released then it wont have that same punch as before.

Would you go to the theatres to watch a movie you already know everything about?
I read the novelization of "Aliens" before it released in theaters and I was there opening night and enjoyed the hell out of it. LOTS of people read books and then go see the screen adaptation.

That "story" line that was leaked was hardly a blow by blow description of everything that was to occur in every level.. more of a rough guideline so the dev team members working on each level knew where it had to start and end up.

I swear, people get so worked up over nothing (especially in this case ).
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Old 06-26-2009, 09:36 AM   #996
Pikachu
 
Re: 3D realms Countersues !
Quote:
Originally Posted by SplatterHappy View Post
I swear, people get so worked up over nothing (especially in this case ).

LOL! That was so genius! I WANT TO HAVE YOUR BABIES. <3 <3 <3 <3
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:23 PM   #997
wieder
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikachu View Post
Waste their time? It's not like they weren't paid for the work they did, it's just that they can't be paid anymore.
Yeah... because *that's* why we became game developers and put the time in... for a paycheck.
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:38 PM   #998
Pikachu
 
Exclamation Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by wieder View Post
Yeah... because *that's* why we became game developers and put the time in... for a paycheck.
Uhh yeah, it is, despite your broken sarcasm.

I understand you left 3DR before the shit went down, and made the whole Chair Story joke thing, but let's pretend you didn't leave for a second, OK? Would you be working for free on this game just because you love it so much? Would you secretly be developing the game, hiding everything from Take 2's restraining order, because you are just that devoted?

If the answer is no, you're just working for the paycheck. If the answer is yes, then I have considerable doubt in your sincerity as you would have never left 3DR and you WOULD still be secretly working. I understand you want to give something to the people who have done nothing but bitch for 12 years, let's call them 3DR fans, but the bills come first. That's completely sensible and nothing to be ashamed of.

Besides, maybe my original statement was misworded. I was just trying to explain to the guy who was all "LOL N00BZ U WASTE TIME" that "Hey, at least they got paid".

So it's not like you spent all summer raising an abandoned tiger cub and it maims four of your friends and dies in the fall, you got something from it. It's not a waste of time.

So therefore my original statement was correct, making me right, you wrong, and the world turns as usual. If you were to promise not to try and correct me again, I might forgive you. :3
Last edited by Pikachu; 06-26-2009 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:43 PM   #999
ReadOnly

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Re: 3D realms Countersues !
Quote:
Originally Posted by SplatterHappy View Post
I read the novelization of "Aliens" before it released in theaters and I was there opening night and enjoyed the hell out of it. LOTS of people read books and then go see the screen adaptation.
Yeah, and then they bitch about how movie is different from the novel.
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Old 06-26-2009, 02:57 PM   #1000
wieder
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikachu View Post
I understand you left 3DR before the shit went down, and made the whole Chair Story joke thing, but let's pretend you didn't leave for a second, OK? Would you be working for free on this game just because you love it so much? Would you secretly be developing the game, hiding everything from Take 2's restraining order, because you are just that devoted?

If the answer is no, you're just working for the paycheck. If the answer is yes, then I have considerable doubt in your sincerity as you would have never left 3DR and you WOULD still be secretly working. I understand you want to give something to the people who have done nothing but bitch for 12 years, let's call them 3DR fans, but the bills come first. That's completely sensible and nothing to be ashamed of.

Besides, maybe my original statement was misworded. I was just trying to explain to the guy who was all "LOL N00BZ U WASTE TIME" that "Hey, at least they got paid".

So it's not like you spent all summer raising an abandoned tiger cub and it maims four of your friends and dies in the fall, you got something from it. It's not a waste of time.

So therefore my original statement was correct, making me right, you wrong, and the world turns as usual. If you were to promise not to try and correct me again, I might forgive you. :3
Myself, and anyone who worked on DNF, could get a paycheck anywhere. We didn't choose to work at 3DR because of the paycheck. A paycheck is just assumed for survival. We could have gotten bigger paychecks in other industries, and possibly even other companies during that time.

So getting paid or not is simply part of the assumption of working anywhere. So for anyone who was at 3DR just because they needed a job and 3DR was as good a place as any other for them... then yes you are correct.

For those (probably most) who were there to accomplish a specific goal... well... that goal was not accomplished despite years of effort was it?

If it's just a matter of whether you get something for your time regardless of whether it was the *reason* you were investing said time... then you would be correct. However that is not the *reason* people were at 3DR or working on DNF.
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