Forum Archive

Go Back   3D Realms Forums > General Topics > Programming Forum
Blogs FAQ Members List Social Groups Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-24-2006, 05:15 AM   #1
The Frederick
How much maths does game programming require?
Topic. I've got a good grip on standard maths, and I want to get into the gaming industry.
The Frederick is offline  
Old 07-24-2006, 06:15 AM   #2
Foxy
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Define 'standard maths'.
Foxy is offline  
Old 07-24-2006, 06:16 AM   #3
The Frederick
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
You know, algebra, trig, geo. Not just plus and minus.
The Frederick is offline  
Old 07-24-2006, 06:23 AM   #4
Foxy
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
3D stuff would require more than that, apparently the maths gets rather nasty. From my (limited) experience of programming in general, you use your standard calculus and whatnot, and discrete maths, but IMO that's better done intuitively anyway rather than as a load of abstract theorums. I don't know how much programming you've done, so sorry if this is as helpful as an unhelpful thing.
Foxy is offline  
Old 07-24-2006, 06:28 AM   #5
The Frederick
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Shouldn't be too hard.
The Frederick is offline  
Old 07-24-2006, 06:33 AM   #6
Foxy
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Quote:
Shouldn't be too hard.
That's the spirit!
Foxy is offline  
Old 07-24-2006, 11:26 AM   #7
clayasaurus

clayasaurus's Avatar
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Here's a little taste for physics maths

http://www.d6.com/users/checker/dynamics.htm#articles
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthr...3&page=2&pp=15

Enjoy!
clayasaurus is offline  
Old 07-24-2006, 03:51 PM   #8
Destroyer
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
well Id say a decent ammount of math. Algebra, Trig, Geometry, linear algebra, calculus, and diff equations woulnt hurt.
Destroyer is offline  
Old 07-25-2006, 12:56 AM   #9
The Frederick
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
I've heard that although maths is required, programming is mostly logics based. True or not?
The Frederick is offline  
Old 07-25-2006, 02:21 AM   #10
Foxy
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
In my opinion, yes.
Foxy is offline  
Old 07-25-2006, 04:32 AM   #11
Samji

Samji's Avatar
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
As my mother would say: everything is mathematics or someway entails it.
Mathematics wisdom, in any field, will serve you well. The gaming industry is no different.
__________________
Sam's Py
Samji is offline  
Old 07-25-2006, 05:06 AM   #12
Phait

Phait's Avatar
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
gaehrglrseghje;ojg

MATH itself is plural.

****.
__________________
Music: http://www.oquilluksound.com Album: http://machinefaultred.blogspot.com Album Calendar Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/oquilluksound

"but I promise you this, I'll always look out for you, that's what I do" -Coldplay
Phait is offline  
Old 07-25-2006, 08:02 AM   #13
8IronBob

8IronBob's Avatar
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Well, if you want to be the next John Carmack, then you almost have to get up to Calculus in order to be innovative and inventive with new engine technologies. However, to get into game design outside of high-end engine design, then maybe you'll fly with trig or algebra with no problem... It all depends on how involved in game design that you wish to get.
__________________
PC Specs (a.k.a. "Galacticus Prime"): http://pcpartpicker.com/p/7Vk7FT
8IronBob is offline  
Old 07-25-2006, 08:14 AM   #14
Samji

Samji's Avatar
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phait
gaehrglrseghje;ojg

MATH itself is plural.

****.
Yeah, Americans (probably Canadians too) say "Math" is short for Mathematics.
In Britain, we say "Maths". I don't know about Australia.
__________________
Sam's Py
Samji is offline  
Old 07-25-2006, 12:28 PM   #15
Drewcifer
 

Drewcifer's Avatar
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samji
As my mother would say: everything is mathematics or someway entails it.
Mathematics wisdom, in any field, will serve you well. The gaming industry is no different.
This is definately true. Trying to rediscover all of the basic concepts of vector calculus whilst writing a game engine may eventually pay off, but is not a very efficient way of doing it. I would say taking a few first-year math courses would definately give you the biggest bang for your buck. The math after that becomes much less useful for your purposes.
Drewcifer is offline  
Old 07-25-2006, 01:04 PM   #16
Mike359
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Hmm just thinking. How do you measure math?
Mike359 is offline  
Old 07-25-2006, 02:57 PM   #17
Destroyer
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Frederick
I've heard that although maths is required, programming is mostly logics based. True or not?
tru, and the days of jsut 1-3 people making a game are just about over so it also depends alot on what your doing for the game, if you an AI programmer, or General programmer/ tools programmer then I think you could just get by with basic math skills and you would use mostly logic. but if your gonna be doing graphics programming or physics, you most definitley would need to have math skills at the level of college calculus atleast.
but even if you dont decide to do graphics/physics programming you cant go wrong with learning MATH.
Destroyer is offline  
Old 07-25-2006, 03:07 PM   #18
Drewcifer
 

Drewcifer's Avatar
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Frederick
I've heard that although maths is required, programming is mostly logics based. True or not?
Another thing to consider is that there is no better way to learn the logical thought process and problem solving than learning math.
Drewcifer is offline  
Old 07-25-2006, 03:45 PM   #19
Foxy
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
I disagree. Maths is more about getting your brain into an efficient machine that can recall the appropriate rules and apply them well. If you don't think logically to start with, having calculus drummed into you will do nothing to change that. Problem solving is imagination, not calculation.
Foxy is offline  
Old 07-25-2006, 04:03 PM   #20
Drewcifer
 

Drewcifer's Avatar
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Yes, I should have mentioned that I meant real math, like linear algebra, discrete, theoretical stuff, etc. Any idiot can do basic differential calculus. In the grade 12 calculus course at my (former) high school, people who got 75-85 in science courses and previous maths were getting 95+ in calculus, but were getting only 60 in linear algebra. Of course, I got a 97, but that's because I'm a genius.
Drewcifer is offline  
Old 07-26-2006, 12:59 AM   #21
The Frederick
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8IronBob
Well, if you want to be the next John Carmack, then you almost have to get up to Calculus in order to be innovative and inventive with new engine technologies. However, to get into game design outside of high-end engine design, then maybe you'll fly with trig or algebra with no problem... It all depends on how involved in game design that you wish to get.
I don't wanna be the next Carmack, really. Just assemble the games and such. General programming. Although I intend to pick up calculus along the line; seems helpful.
The Frederick is offline  
Old 07-26-2006, 01:00 AM   #22
The Frederick
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewcifer
Yes, I should have mentioned that I meant real math, like linear algebra, discrete, theoretical stuff, etc. Any idiot can do basic differential calculus. In the grade 12 calculus course at my (former) high school, people who got 75-85 in science courses and previous maths were getting 95+ in calculus, but were getting only 60 in linear algebra. Of course, I got a 97, but that's because I'm a genius.
Linear algebra... that's stuff like linear equations and such, yeah?
The Frederick is offline  
Old 07-26-2006, 08:19 AM   #23
NetNessie

NetNessie's Avatar
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samji
In Britain, we say "Maths". I don't know about Australia.
We're Maths people too.
__________________
Ink Grass LazyMoon Photography
"Say something wise, and your name will be remembered forever." - Anonymous
NetNessie is offline  
Old 07-26-2006, 09:01 AM   #24
Drewcifer
 

Drewcifer's Avatar
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Frederick
Linear algebra... that's stuff like linear equations and such, yeah?
I take it to mean stuff with vectors and equations of lines and planes in 3-space. Is that what you meant?
Drewcifer is offline  
Old 07-26-2006, 09:23 AM   #25
Samji

Samji's Avatar
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetNessie
We're Maths people too.
Cool.
__________________
Sam's Py
Samji is offline  
Old 07-26-2006, 02:34 PM   #26
Foxy
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
*Australia gains 75 'Britain' reputation*
Foxy is offline  
Old 07-26-2006, 09:55 PM   #27
DudeMiester

DudeMiester's Avatar
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Massive massive math. That's one of your most important skills when game programming. Remember all games are approximations of reality, so you've got to know how to leverate mathematical approximations like the Taylor series, Fourier transforms, wavelets, etc... This requires good knowledge of both knowledge of continuous and discrete math. Most of all, you need to be fluent in the multi-variate forms of each. This is no small order, but here's a link to help you get started:
http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2006...ogrammers.html
Note, although he doesn't stess continuous math in his article, it depends on what you're doing. With game development it is VERY important, as it's based on physical systems that are continuous (for our purposes, we're not worrying about quantization and other quantum effects).

imho, the reason many game programmers produce homogenous looking games is because they lack the mathematical tools to create truely unique and interesting simulations and approximations. The one's that do know this (e.g. Yann L) blow everyone else out of the water.
__________________
Forums are the Opiate of the Masses
Higher Game -- "Animal fur is renewable, unlike the oil used to make plastic!"
DudeMiester is offline  
Old 07-26-2006, 11:31 PM   #28
Destroyer
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
ya math is pretty damn important, not to mention once you start to get into advanced math its quite intresting/fun.
Destroyer is offline  
Old 07-27-2006, 12:05 AM   #29
Steve

Steve's Avatar
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Great read. Thank you.
Steve is offline  
Old 07-31-2006, 03:50 AM   #30
NetNessie

NetNessie's Avatar
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxy
*Australia gains 75 'Britain' reputation*
Excellent, one more level and our kangaroo's can jump higher!
__________________
Ink Grass LazyMoon Photography
"Say something wise, and your name will be remembered forever." - Anonymous
NetNessie is offline  
Old 08-01-2006, 07:48 PM   #31
Xerxes
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
You need to know how to make formulas and that's about it...
I've never seen a data type that used anything other than a normal old number that can be negative.

Depends on what you're making.
Normal old algorithim - +1 or -1 every now and then. Not many floats(floats are numbers with decimals).
Working with pixels/polygons in 2D - lots of fancy crap but nothing too hard. Floats.
Working with 3D - more complicated versions of the stuff you used in 2D. More floats.
Xerxes is offline  
Old 08-01-2006, 09:48 PM   #32
Destroyer
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
I like math and I think its quite useful, if you ask me I say learn as much math as possible. get a degree in math.
Destroyer is offline  
Old 08-13-2006, 08:33 AM   #33
DudeMiester

DudeMiester's Avatar
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
You need to know how to make formulas and that's about it...
I've never seen a data type that used anything other than a normal old number that can be negative.

Depends on what you're making.
Normal old algorithim - +1 or -1 every now and then. Not many floats(floats are numbers with decimals).
Working with pixels/polygons in 2D - lots of fancy crap but nothing too hard. Floats.
Working with 3D - more complicated versions of the stuff you used in 2D. More floats.
Uhh... That's math. Math uses numbers, and is about making formulas, same as programming.
__________________
Forums are the Opiate of the Masses
Higher Game -- "Animal fur is renewable, unlike the oil used to make plastic!"
DudeMiester is offline  
Old 08-13-2006, 08:16 PM   #34
Destroyer
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Programming is basically math, the problem is in HS we are given such a narrow description of what math is.
Destroyer is offline  
Old 08-13-2006, 11:39 PM   #35
phreak
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Algorithms and simulations are all mathematics, and those are basically the biggest subfields of game programming.

Which reminds me to bitch about the lack of good projective geometry math books.

And high-school math is absolute crap. Real math is taught in college, and that's if you're majoring in it. Appart from Calculus courses which, as far as I've been told, are absolute crap in most places and horribly misrepresent the thing.
phreak is offline  
Old 08-15-2006, 12:32 PM   #36
peoplessi

peoplessi's Avatar
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Depends really what type of a game, and what scale you are targeting. Basic knowledge in algebra(to some extend Abstract algebra). But the most important thing is what you are willing to learn, it is easy to get started with programming without a Degree in Maths 3D api's need more maths like vectors and such, but it's good to start from the basics. Have not done any programming lately, but whenever I get to it I always learn something new, or new way of doing things. My most valuable assets are books, and ofcourse internet. I have limited experience in C++ & OpenGL.

I surely can recommend few things here, first a website(you can google plenty more):
http://www.gamedev.net/reference/start_here/

A book that I have found useful and it has real world gameprogramming examples that are easy to follow and achieve better understanding why we do things this way and how can I use that in my games. It does have some flaws, but in my opinion it is the best book for beginner. It starts off from basics and moves little by little to more demanding subjects. You will learn make your own Tic-Tac-Toe.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1592002056/

Beginning C++ Game Programming
by Michael Dawson
# Paperback: 352 pages
# Publisher: Course Technology PTR; 1 edition (May 13, 2004)
# Language: English
# ISBN: 1592002056
__________________
Duke Nukem Forever
Who am I to judge?
peoplessi is offline  
Old 08-20-2006, 12:25 PM   #37
Lain

Lain's Avatar
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
well i have programed some 3d appz and believe me, understanding vectors, will be needed,

i'm currently using the Purcell edition #8, Prenttice Hall, i think you will need the knowledge of chapter 14 to actually know what you are doing instead of trial and error ina 3d enviroment, not to mention, the shortcuts to reduce your algorythm time.
__________________
Frag=Superczar kissing my shotgun..

Wii code: 1999-5973-3442-4435
Brawl: 3050-7344-2657
Lain is offline  
Old 08-20-2006, 03:19 PM   #38
Destroyer
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
Quote:
Originally Posted by phreak View Post
And high-school math is absolute crap. Real math is taught in college, and that's if you're majoring in it. Appart from Calculus courses which, as far as I've been told, are absolute crap in most places and horribly misrepresent the thing.
wait are you saying calculus courses are crap? cuz mine have been superb in every possible way.

and ya simulation is really alot more math. I took that class it almost felt like it was a stats class.
Destroyer is offline  
Old 08-21-2006, 09:28 AM   #39
Mr.Sociopath
 

Mr.Sociopath's Avatar
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
I'll start a video game program at the university next week.. and there willl be maths...it almost scares me a little

"Matrices. Systems of equations. Linear systems of inequations. Real vector spaces: linear dependence, linear independence, bases, dimensions, linear applications, matric representations. Clean determinants, values and vectors, diagonalisation." - stuff in one math course (note..babel fish translation from french ..errors might occur )
Mr.Sociopath is offline  
Old 08-21-2006, 11:07 AM   #40
peoplessi

peoplessi's Avatar
Re: How much maths does game programming require?
matrices :> I love those, and vectors too.
__________________
Duke Nukem Forever
Who am I to judge?
peoplessi is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:15 PM.

Page generated in 0.24183893 seconds (100.00% PHP - 0% MySQL) with 16 queries

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Website is 1987-2014 Apogee Software, Ltd.
Ideas and messages posted here become property of Apogee Software Ltd.