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Old 06-07-2009, 06:28 PM   #81
wieder
Re: george twitties
I'm still bound by all the same NDAs and such as when I was there, which is why I don't divulge more on some things, and other things I don't divulge because it's not the right thing to do. Same reason I don't talk about in detail why I left to go to Gearbox, or why half the company turned over late 2006/early 2007.

What I do try to do however is continue to be a part of the community that I first discovered and became a fan of as a punk college kid before I was ever in the industry and contribute what little bit I can, while mostly just offering my own perspectives on the public stuff based on what is known by everyone else and not letting my own knowledge affect it.

GB is going to Vegas because he likes Poker and has played in the WSOP for several years now. I know about as much as you of what they are specifically doing work wise to keep 3DR going... but that doesn't prevent people from living their lives still and aside from being a bit in poor taste to go gamble a couple grand or more for fun when you've just let go people who stuck with you for 12 or more years... it's his life and he seems to be trying to enjoy it.

Think about it this way: Why would they go through the complicated and expensive process of going to Vegas to play in the WSOP to meet up with other devs to try and secure funding? That doesn't make any sense... George can call up the heads of almost any shooter company (and many other companies beyond shooters) to talk directly to them as friends so if that was their desire they would just do that. Cheaper and faster.

I think given all the information out there, the mistake you are making is TRYING to maintain a positive outlook on things, especially in regards to DNF. 12 years, a demo to Take 2 that seems to clearly not have been enough to convince them to invest more, the entire team being laid off, a lawsuit, a statement from 3DR that very carefully says they will be *licensing* the property but nothing about trying to continue DNF for any upcoming time frame, etc... it's a bit silly. At some point the real world has to kick in and then IF... and it's a huge IF... it manages to get some life again take a very skeptical but hopeful stance on the future.

I don't think the negative comments are as hateful or insulting as you are trying to paint them out to be, you are trying to maintain a positive outlook so many comments which are simply factual honest commentary on the situation come off as anger. There are some poorly written negative comments of course, but overall it's been a pretty mixed bag from what I can see.

Honestly it's the people who keep trying to find any scrap of information to let them keep believing the project is still going and going to come out anytime soon that are the most awkward for me. It's pure fantasy and just refusing to face reality.
Last edited by wieder; 06-07-2009 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 06-07-2009, 06:33 PM   #82
vivftp
Re: george twitties
EDIT. Or you could just go by Wieders answers /EDIT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt.Havoc View Post
Tell me why GB would drive to Las Vegas while his company has no funds and no team and a lawsuit going on? Does Scott take care of things like that or something or is there no lawsuit anymore because it was removed?
Why would he go to Vegas? Because he has a life, is the most likely and direct answer you'd probably get.

Also, who said 3DR has no funds? They may have had to get rid of the dev. team but at no time do I recall anyone ever saying 3DR was bankrupt. My guess is they still have a fair bit of funding but just lack the amount necessary to get DNF across the finish line.


Quote:
I mean, if its really the end, they they should simply tell that, they should make a post that DNF is canceld and I am happy with it and we could finally move on and threads like this wont appear ever again and we can live happy afterwards.
There's a court case going on with regards ot DNF. Usually when such things are going on companies/people advised to shut up about anything related to them by their lawyers.

Quote:
Right now, it seems like Scott and George still belive they can ship out the game somehow or what is thier deal?
Seems possible if the funding can be obtained. Due to the court case I wouldn't expect any real response though.

Quote:
Right now its very frustrating to keep a positive outlook at things. I mean did you even read some of the threads here? So much hate, anger and insults and whatnot and every reason is getting rolled over by blind hate.
So a bunch of doom-sayers want to prattle on... so what? This is the internet, things like this happen all the time. Hell, DNF has been experiencing reactions like this for years, this sort thing is hardly new.

Some people will be morons... let them be. Not much you can do about it other than let them go on and hope they'll get bored and move on.

Others will be disappointed and will continue to go on about that fact for some time.

Others like myself will realize that as far as the fans go, this doesn't REALLY change much. DNF might still come out, we'll just have to wait and see. Until more info is released about that we just do what we've always done, and what we have been doing for many years... live our lives and wait to see what happens.
Last edited by vivftp; 06-07-2009 at 06:38 PM.
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Old 06-07-2009, 06:34 PM   #83
Lethe

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Re: george twitties
Wieder, nice post. Thanks for clearing some things out.
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Old 06-07-2009, 07:10 PM   #84
WoodenSword

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Re: george twitties
Wieder has tried to warn us many weeks before (and we should gratefully thank him for this imo)...Take a look at his posts' history at duke4.net.

He is in direct contact with the laid off dev team (no doubt about that) and he voted "DNF will be cancelled" .

I was also pretty much in denial until i saw his post.

But that conclusion is also common sense. No money, no dev team, 3d realms (actually three people now) cannot continue its dev, and....life goes on as usual....

Don't have the completely false picture in your head (that i had): George working overtime, making phone calls to investors, contacting people, doing zbrush and c++ tutorials for beginners in order to finish DNF himself .
That's completely not true...He doesn't have an ace up his sleeve


They make money from the duke IP and the store , everything that has to do with DNF is not part of their daily tasks anymore...simple as that
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Last edited by WoodenSword; 06-08-2009 at 06:37 AM.
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Old 06-07-2009, 09:00 PM   #85
Zavage
Re: george twitties
yay george is playing fallout 3, what a busy man, 12 years for nothing? awesome!
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:25 AM   #86
Ras

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Re: george twitties
George is on the ground in V town.

Quote:
georgeb3dr In Vegas at the Rio. Getting a good night's sleep. I play in WSOP Event 19 tomorrow at noon. You can follow it here: http://bit.ly/HHDgm
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:19 AM   #87
Kovacs

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Yup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodensword View Post
wieder ... Is in direct contact with the laid off dev team (no doubt about that) and he voted "dnf will be cancelled" .

I was also pretty much in denial until i saw his post.
Game Over.
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:30 AM   #88
wieder
Re: Yup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovacs View Post
Game Over.
Note I also followed up with my vote not being based on any insider information (as I have none)... but just my gut feeling based on past performance and current circumstances.
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Old 06-08-2009, 03:48 AM   #89
Kovacs

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Noted.
However, my last flicker of idealistic hope against realistic probability went out when I read your post (in full.)

This was the moment reality bit...

"12 years, a demo to Take 2 that seems to clearly not have been enough to convince them to invest more, the entire team being laid off, a lawsuit, a statement from 3DR that very carefully says they will be *licensing* the property but nothing about trying to continue DNF for any upcoming time frame"

Ouch. The truth hurts.
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:04 AM   #90
Caine

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Re: george twitties
ROFL! so it seems there is just very little hope and that it was 12 years of nothing hahahaha, i dunno sure i would have been a more lucky gamer if this game would have come out, i love duke3d, the other duke games were ok. but to see this game fail so hard that it's not even released and with only big talk and nothing to show is a big fail in life too.
if he would never had promised or talked so arrogant i wouldn't be so pissed as a gamer.
it's their game and we cannot await anything from a devteam, but fans were giving them respect, feedback, their time etc. it's also of course the decision of the fans but who can believe some team like 3dralms especially george anymore?

yeah, no one.
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:37 PM   #91
unforgiven
 
Re: Yup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wieder View Post
Note I also followed up with my vote not being based on any insider information (as I have none)... but just my gut feeling based on past performance and current circumstances.
Could you please tell us why did you left the 3DR ?
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:40 PM   #92
Lethe

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Re: Yup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unforgiven View Post
Could you please tell us why did you left the 3DR ?
He has to draw a picture for people to understand? I think it is pretty obvious from the tone he is managing to convey. Give the man a break, he did his best considering the legal bounds that are keeping him from telling more.

The saddest thing is, he apparently cares more about 3dr fans then the company does.
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Last edited by Lethe; 06-08-2009 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:14 PM   #93
Caine

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Re: Yup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
He has to draw a picture for people to understand? I think it is pretty obvious from the tone he is managing to convey. Give the man a break, he did his best considering the legal bounds that are keeping him from telling more.

The saddest thing is, he apparently cares more about 3dr fans then the company does.
true!
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Old 06-09-2009, 10:32 AM   #94
dukeMadness

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Re: george twitties
Quote:
I'm out. Had QQ. Someone raised to 400, cutoff raised 1500 more and I moved all in with my last 8k to find AA called me.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodenSword View Post
If he loses at poker...PLAN B:


I guess it's time for PLAN B!!!
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Old 06-09-2009, 12:38 PM   #95
jet jaguar 2.0

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Re: Yup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
He has to draw a picture for people to understand? I think it is pretty obvious from the tone he is managing to convey. Give the man a break, he did his best considering the legal bounds that are keeping him from telling more.

The saddest thing is, he apparently cares more about 3dr fans then the company does.
True and yes, that is very sad.
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Old 06-09-2009, 12:47 PM   #96
wieder
Re: Yup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unforgiven View Post
Could you please tell us why did you left the 3DR ?
It was time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
The saddest thing is, he apparently cares more about 3dr fans then the company does.
Really it's cause I'm just as big of a fan as everyone else. I was posting here before I worked there or even thought I would become a game developer... and I credit 3DR with making the games and tools that got me started. Getting to work with Levelord and Allen Blum... who's maps I studied for a couple of years as a fan, and then when building Duke addons at Sunstorm... as well as Keith Schuler and Stephen Cole and Randy Pitchford...

I have a lot of personal attachment to the company, game, and community around it.
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Old 06-09-2009, 02:09 PM   #97
Psyrgery

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Re: Yup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wieder View Post
It was time.



Really it's cause I'm just as big of a fan as everyone else. I was posting here before I worked there or even thought I would become a game developer... and I credit 3DR with making the games and tools that got me started. Getting to work with Levelord and Allen Blum... who's maps I studied for a couple of years as a fan, and then when building Duke addons at Sunstorm... as well as Keith Schuler and Stephen Cole and Randy Pitchford...

I have a lot of personal attachment to the company, game, and community around it.
It's just too bad the game you once took part of had to go to hell this way

I'd have loved the game to be released and then hear from you any kind of info regarding the development.

Too bad
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Old 06-09-2009, 04:00 PM   #98
mysteryperfecta

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Re: george twitties
People just want closure. I don't think its entirely unreasonable, after 12 years of coyness and misinformation, to still pine for a modicum of f'n candor.

They know its dead; sometimes it still helps to see the body.
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Old 06-09-2009, 04:48 PM   #99
LeadBullet

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Re: george twitties
I think what Charlie is trying to tell us is that he abandoned 3DR\DNF and the downhill trend to destruction which followed was entirely based on his actions.
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Old 06-09-2009, 04:51 PM   #100
DarkShadows

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Re: george twitties
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt.Havoc View Post
Wait, didnt Gorge and Scott have Poker matches with several other game makers in the past? Mabe that is a strech, but could GB not go to Las Vegas so ge can meet some of the other game desingers and play against them and maybe get somone to fund 3DR to finish DNF? Possible is anything right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy superman View Post
^ Absolutely! And they've probably also started a weekly DNF lotto run to get extra funding for the game!

The money that George and Scott gamble online is funded by Joe Seigler, just like how they gambled all of Joe's money on the development of DNF.
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Old 06-09-2009, 05:05 PM   #101
wieder
Re: george twitties
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeadBullet View Post
I think what Charlie is trying to tell us is that he abandoned 3DR\DNF and the downhill trend to destruction which followed was entirely based on his actions.
I frequently wake up at night drenched in sweat and screaming "WHAT I'VE DONE!?!?!?"

Now you know the true meaning of WID.
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Old 06-09-2009, 05:40 PM   #102
WoodenSword

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Re: george twitties
it's time to be strong wieder, maybe God will forgive you if you:

1) Confess your sins
2) Ask for forgiveness
3) Make a promise to God that you will never abandon your flock in the darkness of ignorance and sinful, vain DNF hype
4) Persuade Activision to buy DNF rights and continue development

...oh and while you are at it 5) Leak the 2001-dnf version, if you don't mind, while we are waiting for you to finish dnf....
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Last edited by WoodenSword; 06-10-2009 at 05:37 AM.
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Old 06-09-2009, 06:23 PM   #103
Kennerado

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Re: george twitties
lol, ok then WoodenSword.

This thread just got weird-er.
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:02 AM   #104
prophecy holder

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Re: george twitties
Maybe George should do some eating contest to gain money for 3DR? He can pair up with Gabe from Valve and they can wreck some serious damage on those food eating contest.
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Old 06-10-2009, 01:48 PM   #105
unforgiven
 
Re: george twitties
GB's Gambling Photo Leaked Out !!

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Old 06-10-2009, 02:15 PM   #106
Caine

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Re: george twitties
Quote:
Originally Posted by prophecy holder View Post
Maybe George should do some eating contest to gain money for 3DR? He can pair up with Gabe from Valve and they can wreck some serious damage on those food eating contest.
lol n1
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Old 06-10-2009, 02:19 PM   #107
lordlonelobo

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Re: george twitties
Quote:
Originally Posted by unforgiven View Post
GB's Gambling Photo Leaked Out !!

But he was beaten out by AA
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Old 06-10-2009, 03:16 PM   #108
unforgiven
 
Re: george twitties
picture says he lost $100k in Grand MGM's Poker Table
Last edited by unforgiven; 06-10-2009 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 06-10-2009, 04:01 PM   #109
peoplessi

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Re: george twitties
What picture?
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Old 06-10-2009, 04:28 PM   #110
unforgiven
 
Re: george twitties
Above !
or
This -> http://i43.tinypic.com/eiwgft.jpg
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:12 AM   #111
SplatterHappy

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Re: george twitties
You mean the screamingly obvious shop job above?
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:28 AM   #112
Tualmasok
 
Re: george twitties
In regards to the NDA, what are the limitations on it? Obviously once DNF was released you would be able to spill beans, but now that it has been "Duked" (Get it? Self LOL!), what can you tell us and when can you? Do we have to kill GB for the truth to come out? As it stands I am almost at that point. Obviously not in the literal sense, but since you Yanks love waterboarding so much, surely a little bit of liquid encouragement could get DNF rolling again?
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Old 06-11-2009, 03:10 AM   #113
Ras

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Re: george twitties
George is back to the tables today. Must be nice to have that kind of money to throw around.

Quote:
Playing in World Series of Poker event 24 tomorrow. http://bit.ly/gAphI Probably should have been in bed a couple hours ago
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Old 06-11-2009, 04:11 AM   #114
Monkey Butler
Re: george twitties
It's possible (and actually not that hard) to win a seat into these tournaments. Buying in directly is only a last resort.
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Old 06-11-2009, 04:25 AM   #115
Ras

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Re: george twitties
I just typed that to have something to say anyway. You can't just quote.
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Old 06-11-2009, 05:37 AM   #116
Monkey Butler
Re: george twitties
5char is your friend
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Old 06-11-2009, 02:48 PM   #117
lordlonelobo

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Re: george twitties
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ras View Post
George is back to the tables today. Must be nice to have that kind of money to throw around.
Yeah, I hear you. $7500 + $4500...
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgeb3dr
Tournament starting soon. Looks to be near 3000 people in it. Start with 4500 in chips.
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Old 06-11-2009, 06:30 PM   #118
Tualmasok
 
Re: george twitties
Wow, posts are going crazy!

---------- Post added at 06:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:54 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashBack View Post
You got that right, consoles just became popular for anti "proper gaming with a mouse and keyboard" supporters also. Usually ppl above 30 that have not touched a pc or pc game in their life.
Usually people that love to fund consoles through buying games for them, in order to give a big market share to consoles and thus kill graphics evolution rate. No more demand for pc games = games for outdated hardware inside consoles that bottleneck natural evolution of game graphics and gameplay.
Don't even dare to get me started on this subject, I could write entire books and make entire documentaries on this issue!
To sum it up, the current gen of consoles have become a chastity belt for fast gaming evolution.A chastity belt that gets replaced with a new and better one every 6 or so years.
All that in order to have stupid people that can't operate a pc, buy games too and make the public bigger so that companies like sony or microsoft can get more cash at the end of the day
Thank god for modders, people like the ones behind natural selection 2 or people like the ones behind black mesa source...
Long live indie!
Wow, people like this make me ashamed of being pro-PC.

To begin with;

a) "Proper gaming" is not being devoted to a single control system, it's playing a game to have fun and achieve something

b) I know lots of people above thirty that love PC gaming. It's mostly people under the age of 16 that like to fan-bash the opposition. How old are you?

c) Most people don't "love to fund consoles", they love to fund their entertainment. Which entails buying games. They are "supporting" the console, if anything. Please try to master the English language, it is the agreed upon form of communication on these forums

d) Captain Spastic; you seem to have missed the fact that the graphics revolution occurred on PC and console at roughly the same time. In fact, a little bit earlier for consoles, as the PlayStation actually preceeded most 3D games on the PC, and in fact promoted the higher sales of 3D processor cards, which were not standard back then

e) I think one or two major PC game developers have already aknowledged the fact that console hardware can't compete with the PC. This is why they create what is called a "console port". This is pretty much the same game, but scaled down to run on consoles. This is also done in revers, which is known as a "PC port", where they take a console game, make it look better, and release it on PC! I know! TECHNOLOGY ROCKS!

f) I'm getting you started. I want to see the book and documentaries. I don't think you have a leg to stand on, and I want to laugh whilst you topple over

g) Faster gaming is not produced by consoles' and PCs' mating. I have no idea why preventing this process would retard development of better graphics. I don't even know how this process would be undertaken...

h) The public is getting bigger because they breed, not because they buy games

i) Modders don't really do anything to support the retail sales and profits of game developers. If everyone pirated a certain game, and played mods for it, it would be a commercial failure. Especially when compared to a game that had no mods for it, but everyone paid good money for
Last edited by Tualmasok; 06-11-2009 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 06-11-2009, 10:35 PM   #119
Monkey Butler
Re: george twitties
What I don't understand about this whole thing is the snobbery attached to it. My way of having fun is better than your way of having fun - what the hell kind of argument is that? The whole argument seems to me like arguing over someone's preference for surfing over driving a car. "Surfing's fun, pretty easy to learn, it's outdoors, social, chicks love surfers". "STFU noob, you can't ride a surfboard with the precision of a car, and my car can make it to 100km/h in less than 5 seconds". Who the hell cares, as long as you're actually enjoying yourself?
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Old 06-11-2009, 10:49 PM   #120
Tualmasok
 
Re: george twitties
STFU N00B! You obviously know nothing about the difference between a board and a car!
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