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Old 05-02-2008, 08:56 AM   #1
Dimebog

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Mapster32 Suggestions
I've noticed that editing sector/wall shading/texturing/height in 3D mode can be a real pain because Mapster32 seems be quite temperamental when selecting a wall, floor or a ceiling I want to edit - it doesn't seem to pay much attention to what I am mousing-over at that point. For example, I can mouse-over directly over the floor of the chamber I'm standing in, and it will focus on a wall that is directly across for some unexplainable reason. The only way to counter this is to get all the way to the surface I want to edit.

However, there's an even more apparent problem that renders level creation completely impossible: today I just realized that for some reason, I cannot place any vertices using the 'Insert' key, on vertical walls. It just says 'Point inserted' but it doesn't appear. I can only insert new points on completely horizontal walls and that's pretty much it.



Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 05-02-2008, 09:03 AM   #2
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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimebog View Post
I've noticed that editing sector/wall shading/texturing/height in 3D mode can be a real pain because Mapster32 seems be quite temperamental when selecting a wall, floor or a ceiling I want to edit - it doesn't seem to pay much attention to what I am mousing-over at that point. For example, I can mouse-over directly over the floor of the chamber I'm standing in, and it will focus on a wall that is directly across for some unexplainable reason. The only way to counter this is to get all the way to the surface I want to edit.
That's our legendary selectionbug in Polymost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimebog View Post
However, there's an even more apparent problem that renders level creation completely impossible: today I just realized that for some reason, I cannot place any vertices using the 'Insert' key, on vertical walls. It just says 'Point inserted' but it doesn't appear. I can only insert new points on completely horizontal walls and that's pretty much it.
When walls are too long it will no longer be possible to insert vertices.
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Old 05-02-2008, 09:11 AM   #3
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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
Then I don't understand the claims that Mapster32 is a superior editor or whatever. So far it's only given me problems and headaches. The pic the shows what you have in the clipboard also seems completely unnecessary and it only covers up the workspace (say when you have a 512x512 tile in your clipboard and use 640x480 resolution). I'd much rather like to see something useful, like, values of sloped surfaces being displayed on screen while you edit a slope so that you don't have to use jedi-force to replicate the same slope somewhere else. So much wasted potential...

So, you are saying, there's no solution? I have to give up? I'd try and shorten the length of the wall, but I'd have to extend it after adding the vertices anyway, and I noticed that when you do that, the texture on the wall becomes incredibly stretched and all you can't even fix it.... Looks like I'll have to stick with tiny open-areas...
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Old 05-02-2008, 09:28 AM   #4
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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
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Originally Posted by Dimebog View Post
Then I don't understand the claims that Mapster32 is a superior editor or whatever.
Both problems are not related to Mapster32 at all. The selection bug lies with the renderer (Polymost) and the fact that drawing too long walls isn't a good idea dates back from when Duke3D was released.
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Old 05-02-2008, 10:10 AM   #5
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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
It's not a bad idea, it's a great idea but it doesn't work. I was just implying that those matters should have been fixed before releasing the editor. I didn't blame the issues on it, I was just saying that it doesn't justify the reputation of being 'superior'. I can't get over the fact that it still doesn't display the shading, sloping and X,Y-repeat values on screen as they're being edited. In that respect, mapedit.exe is something of a superior editor for the Build engine. It also supports long walls so I don't see why Mapster32 couldn't.
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Old 05-02-2008, 10:56 AM   #6
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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimebog
The pic the shows what you have in the clipboard also seems completely unnecessary and it only covers up the workspace (say when you have a 512x512 tile in your clipboard and use 640x480 resolution).
Press ' G to change size of the texture in clipboard preview.
Press F2 to hide the clipboard completely.
Other keys are here.

Unfortunately mapster32 is kinda out of luck. It seems no one of the EDuke32 developers is a mapper and so they aren't aware about problems and don't know mapper's desires.
As for your problems, post a test map where the problems occur because it hasn't never happen for me(I'm not a mapper though).

Mapster32 is advised because it uses the same render as EDuke32(including HRP). You still can use other editors to gain their features and/or use several editors together. One more map editor which worth looking is LEBuild.
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Old 05-02-2008, 12:41 PM   #7
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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
That's a real shame that it's not worked on it's refinement.

I checked out LEBuild briefly and it seems really interesting but I'm afraid I don't have time to learn how to use a fundamentally different editor. I have experience with BLOOD's mapedit.exe so I expected Mapster32 should not be much different, but it's a real letdown.

Thanks for the tips btw.
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Old 05-03-2008, 04:34 AM   #8
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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
Not a bug, rather a suggestion:
It'd be nice if there was an option in Mapster32 to turn off ALL displays, and I mean ALL of them, even the crosshair. That would be really nice for screenshots so you would not always have to load the game for it.
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Old 05-03-2008, 06:32 AM   #9
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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
Good to know you think my version of the editor is crap. Feel free to submit patches or write your own.
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Old 05-03-2008, 06:43 AM   #10
Hunter_rus

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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
I'd like to clarify myself. I'm not saying that it's crap. My point is the developers aren't mappers(me too) so they aren't working on this part as intensive as on other parts of code.

It would be good if mappers said more about their problems and desires otherwise it may not be fixed/improved.
As for the problems, attach a map with problems so we can have a look.
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Old 05-03-2008, 06:52 AM   #11
Dimebog

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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerminX View Post
Good to know you think my version of the editor is crap. Feel free to submit patches or write your own.
I don't fix other peoples' crap.
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Old 05-03-2008, 07:25 AM   #12
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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
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Originally Posted by Hunter_rus View Post
It would be good if mappers said more about their problems and desires otherwise it may not be fixed/improved.
Well so far I haven't noticed any bugs apart from that selectionbug thing.. But once you get used to do that it's not that annoying anymore.

I don't see how one can say Mapster32 is crap. When compared to the original Build it has so many new handy features, for example you can see the radius of a Music&SFX sprite, or you can see what sector/sector effector tag does what so you don't have to go through _se or _st.map in case you forgot a certain tag.

Of course let's also not forget that it supports 32bit mode and is of higher res than Build.
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Old 05-03-2008, 07:42 AM   #13
Dimebog

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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
I never said that it was crap. TX implied that himself.

And I also didn't realize it's his editor (unless of course, he made a pretty exact replica of Mapster). He must be talking about something else being 'crap', or by implication, eDuke32 would be his engine. And really, what's up with the attitude displayed by people in position here? Just put in the forum rules 'If you have criticism just shutup or fix it yourself'! Also point out: 'In our eyes, all of you normal users are worthless maggots and your opinions mean nothing to us so just keep them to yourself'.

That would prevent threads like this.
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Old 05-03-2008, 07:51 AM   #14
Sang

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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
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Originally Posted by Dimebog View Post
And I also didn't realize it's his editor (unless of course, he made a pretty exact replica of Mapster).
Both Mapster and Mapster32 were made by TX (in conjunction with some other E32 development members, I guess!)

Quote:
Just put in the forum rules 'If you have criticism just shutup or fix it yourself'! Also point out: 'In our eyes, all of you normal users are worthless maggots and your opinions mean nothing to us so just keep them to yourself'.
Well not really, the problem is your criticism doesn't make much sense.
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Old 05-03-2008, 08:03 AM   #15
Hunter_rus

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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
About build based editors(including mapster32):
Spoiler:


I'm willing to fix/enhance mapster32 like I did lately but it's impossible to fix the selection bug till we will be able to reproduce it. So I'm asking 3rd time to show a test map where the problem occurs in case you need this to be fixed someday.

We need constructive suggestions and bug reports with instructions of how to reproduce it.
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Old 05-03-2008, 08:41 AM   #16
Dimebog

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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
I never said anything weird happens in my map so I don't know why would I upload it. I already stated the issues. I wasn't aware of the selection bug because the search on this forum, and wiki didn't give me any results. I was trying to find an answer for some 30 minutes before I burst and decided to make a thread. I also wasn't aware of the fact that you can't place vertices on long walls as that's not something I've encountered before and it also doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere. Other than that I'd only have complaints about the lack of numeral values being displayed on the screen when you edit the height of sprites, their shading, X,Y-repeat values, and sector sloping, but you already know that since you're obviously aware of BLOOD's mapeditor, and the fact that is the most advanced editor for Build.

That said, I don't even need to provide anymore constructive criticism (since this is all obviously negative) and if you are willing to fix and enhance Mapster32, you know where to look. You also seem like a reasonable person so you won't think that I'm just trying to be a smartass.
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Old 05-03-2008, 04:11 PM   #17
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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
There are no bugs in Mapster32 that are not in Build... TX is working quite hard to iron out these bugs and keep the compatibility.
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Old 05-03-2008, 04:21 PM   #18
NightFright

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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
You should never condemn Mapster32 or you will taste TX's wrath, and for good reason.
Personally, I would be FUBAR without it. Looking at maps in that editor is the fastest way to check things without entering the actual game, and with Hunter's implemented maphacks support, it's even more useful than it already was before.
Last edited by NightFright; 05-03-2008 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 05-03-2008, 04:29 PM   #19
The Commander

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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
Damn straight Night Fright.
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Old 05-03-2008, 05:22 PM   #20
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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimebog View Post
I never said anything weird happens in my map so I don't know why would I upload it.
What you could do is find one of the spots in a map (not necessarily your map) where it tends to select the wrong surface and then put the starting position there and upload it. Then Hunter_Rus or someone could try selecting wall/foors/ceilings from that position and see what happens. The other stuff you mentioned is all handled by the tips that Hunter_Rus listed.

And I don't think you need to worry about anyone's "wrath" as long as the things you say are actually true.
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Old 05-03-2008, 05:37 PM   #21
Hunter_rus

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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
Anyway I was able to reproduce the selection bug and it's fixed. I have to use 64-bit variables for interim calculations because 32 isn't enough. I also added an undo feature(it' actually quick load map) and displaying of current panning/shading and so on.

I think I'll submit this patch after applying my previous patch and this update of Helixhorned. But it's all up to TerminX.
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Old 05-04-2008, 01:25 AM   #22
Dimebog

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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
Sounds good! I'll hold my breath until that happens.
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Old 05-13-2008, 11:05 AM   #23
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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
I think it would be advisably to rename this thread to "Mapster32 thread". Also it seems to me a word "annoying" in thread title is inept by such admirable map editor as Mapster32. Dimebog, your style is somewhat defiant. You must understand that TerminX's work is very hard, to say the least. Respect him.

TerminX, don't fling over us!
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Old 05-13-2008, 12:42 PM   #24
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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimebog View Post
Then I don't understand the claims that Mapster32 is a superior editor or whatever. So far it's only given me problems and headaches.
...
learn to use it man.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimebog View Post

The pic the shows what you have in the clipboard also seems completely unnecessary and it only covers up the workspace (say when you have a 512x512 tile in your clipboard and use 640x480 resolution).

...
you can disable the clipboard, thanks to Mapster32 also change its size

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimebog View Post

I'd much rather like to see something useful, like, values of sloped surfaces being displayed on screen while you edit a slope so that you don't have to use jedi-force to replicate the same slope somewhere else. So much wasted potential...
...
i want sloped values too, but its still an awesome editor, it has values for much more stuff, for example height of sectors, sprites, coordinates, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimebog View Post

So, you are saying, there's no solution? I have to give up? I'd try and shorten the length of the wall, but I'd have to extend it after adding the vertices anyway,

...
pros dont give up, excellent maps have been made with this editor and less man. and shortening the wall , adding the vertice and then expand it again has been done for ages, its a 2 second thing, not the end of the world

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimebog View Post

and I noticed that when you do that, the texture on the wall becomes incredibly stretched and all you can't even fix it.... Looks like I'll have to stick with tiny open-areas...
no, its even more stretched if the wall is really long, but thanks to adding that vertice the texture is less stretched, also make sure you press the numbers to change the size of the texture (you can do that) if youre still not happy, add one or two more vertices
 
Old 05-13-2008, 12:50 PM   #25
LipSheZ

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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
Quote:
Originally Posted by timothy2 View Post
but its still an awesome editor
I absolutely agree with your opinion, Timoty.
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Old 05-13-2008, 01:05 PM   #26
Hunter_rus

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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
But there is a bright side. Due his critics I made some improvements and fixes to Mapster32. The screenshot can't show everything which may be available in the next mapster32 because it's a static image.

Dimebog's only mistake was being aggressive at first.

I suggest reporting bugs and making suggestions to make mapster32 better. You don't have to get used to the known bugs because they should be fixed. If there is way to improve, you can suggest this. Even if it won't be released soon, the developers will be aware of wishes and someday a new feature could be implemented.

EDIT
By the way Helixhorned's patch has important improvements to mapster32 as well. For example, Unreal style mouse navigation which is really cool.
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Old 05-13-2008, 01:25 PM   #27
LipSheZ

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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter_rus View Post
But there is a bright side. Due his critics I made some improvements and fixes to Mapster32. The screenshot can't show everything which may be available in the next mapster32 because it's a static image.
Bully! And when we'll see a new version?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter_rus View Post
Dimebog's only mistake was being aggressive at first.
Yeah, I suggest to rename this thread to "Mapster32 thread". Who has authority here?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter_rus View Post
I suggest reporting bugs and making suggestions to make mapster32 better. You don't have to get used to the known bugs because they should be fixed. If there is way to improve, you can suggest this. Even if it won't be released soon, the developers will be aware of wishes and someday a new feature could be implemented.
O'kay. It's very interesting for me. We will meticulously searh various variants for best upgrading this genius editor!

EDIT: Maybe you can call forthcoming version... hm-m-m... 1.2.0 for example?
Last edited by LipSheZ; 05-13-2008 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 05-13-2008, 01:29 PM   #28
timothy2
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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
awesome! i take it its really hard to implement an instant play testing button, right?

also:
-individual wall/sprite selecting with ctrl button, and you can shade the selected walls individually?
-real time 2d mode with textures applied on floor with their shades and pallete?
-the pivoting sector effector should have a little line doing the movement in which the door is going to swwing! huge time saver !
-dunno what else...ror?
 
Old 05-13-2008, 11:36 PM   #29
Mangetsu
Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
Protip: I bet Dimebog just tried Mapster32 after chilling off from Mapping for other games.
Sorry to say this; but your wrongness is relatively to the amount of bullshit against nice criticism .

I hope any of you guys can help fix or, somehow, upgrade Mapster32 .
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Old 05-14-2008, 01:19 AM   #30
LipSheZ

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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
  • SUGGESTION #1: to add optional italicizing displaying of 'first walls' with... yellow coloured lines, for example. This option can be off in menu switched on by F2 key in 3d-mode if mapper doesn't want to see motley wall-lines at that moment. Also it would possible to on first-wall displaying.
  • SUGGESTION #2: to call the next version of Mapster32 as 1.2.0.

I'm waiting for your comments.
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Old 05-14-2008, 01:27 AM   #31
The Commander

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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
It would be nice if we could resize floor and ceiling textures, But I think I might of read somewhere that this just can not be done due to some thing to do with the slopes? I stand to be corrected.
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Old 05-14-2008, 01:51 AM   #32
Dimebog

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Re: Highly annoying Mapster32 bugs
Well yes, I'm sorry for my attitude you see, I was mostly annoyed by the fact that this 'selection bug' that is nowhere to be documented as an apparent feature of the editor, is something that everyone seemed Ok with, even though in my experience, it makes mapping in 32bit mode almost completely impossible. And atop of my obvious aggravation, TerminX shows up and is not very helpful or supportive, and he is the person that is expected to calm me down, after every other random user spits on me for mentioning Mapster in a bad light, even though some of them probably never used it (at least not to do some serious mapping in 32bit mode).

It took Hunter_rus one day to fix the selection bug, so I don't see how that was something that is too much to ask for? Or, whatever? What if I never showed up bitching? It would remain crippled like that forever?

About that, I did mean to edit the name of the thread but it looks like it cannot be done. If some authority reads this, and doesn't feel like I should be fed to the sharks in E3L1, please rename the thread to "Mapster32 Suggestions" or something more appropriate.
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Old 05-14-2008, 03:00 AM   #33
ADM

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Re: Mapster32 Suggestions
Thread name changed to 'Mapster32 Suggestions'
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Old 05-14-2008, 12:04 PM   #34
timothy2
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Re: Mapster32 Suggestions
how do you really know its that simple to fix something? if it is that easy do it yourself. just dont bitch about it, ask nicely. and no, its not impossible to use 3d mode, excellent maps have been mode even with that so its not impossible at all.

and eveyone in here has done serious mapping in 32 bit mode.
Last edited by timothy2; 05-14-2008 at 12:07 PM.
 
Old 05-14-2008, 12:13 PM   #35
Dimebog

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Re: Mapster32 Suggestions
Ok. That was really constructive. Have a nice day.

EDIT: And I know it was simple because I was PMing with Hunter_rus. He fixed it within a day. Noone bothered to just take a look and fix the bug before he did. They rather come up with 'fix it yourself' remarks, as you can see. The trend hasn't escaped you either.

But hey, don't let me take away the fun of flaming me. Do it while it's still fresh.
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Old 05-14-2008, 03:28 PM   #36
TerminX

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Re: Mapster32 Suggestions
Actually, Hunter fixed a different selection bug than the one we've known about forever. He fixed something relating to maximum wall selection distance, whereas the commonly known issue has to do with the inherent inaccuracy of using hitscan functions to select things versus the pixel-perfect way selection works in the 8-bit classic renderer.
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Old 05-14-2008, 04:08 PM   #37
Hunter_rus

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Re: Mapster32 Suggestions
I believe both the bugs are fixed.
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:48 PM   #38
Mangetsu
Re: Mapster32 Suggestions
Quote:
how do you really know its that simple to fix something?
I believe you need to GTFO for a while if you haven't had enough reasons to claim constructive criticism is the way to discuss about hard things.
And lol @ srs bssnss...no, I don't map, and I, neither case, don't go witch-hunting style.
Last edited by Mangetsu; 05-14-2008 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 05-15-2008, 02:57 AM   #39
Dimebog

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Re: Mapster32 Suggestions
Dude, I already know you don't map. You barely do anything other than following me on random forums and trying to cause bullshit.
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Old 05-15-2008, 04:36 AM   #40
Mangetsu
Re: Mapster32 Suggestions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimebog View Post
Dude, I already know you don't map. You barely do anything other than following me on random forums and trying to cause bullshit.
Why haven't you thought that you're the one that's like, following me.
And I wasn't meaning to awnser you, you know.
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