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Old 07-23-2012, 11:31 AM   #1
Kit

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Superman: Man of Steel


Teaser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jKWJZsjm5U

Not much is revealed in the teaser, but I do hope there's more Superman in this one and less Clark Kent.
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:55 AM   #2
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
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Teaser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jKWJZsjm5U

Not much is revealed in the teaser, but I do hope there's more Superman in this one and less Clark Kent.
Also, I'd hope there's more Christopher Nolan in this one and less Zack Snyder.

"Director of WATCHMEN & 300."

Yeah, let's not forget "....also Director of SUCKER PUNCH." Oh how I would love to see that on the official posters.
 
Old 07-23-2012, 06:21 PM   #3
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
Also, the director of Dawn of the Dead. Which I really liked.
But, I really liked 300 and Watchmen and Dawn. So, I'm willing to give him some benefit here.

But, I hate Superman. Hate him. Comics, cartoons, movies... he's a dull character IMO.
But, with the various people working on this film... I'm interested in seeing it.
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Old 07-24-2012, 12:41 AM   #4
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
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Also, the director of Dawn of the Dead. Which I really liked.
I also really like his DotD remake, IMO it's his ONLY good film.

Quote:

But, I hate Superman. Hate him. Comics, cartoons, movies... he's a dull character IMO.
Yeah, I feel similarly about Superman. There have been very, very few works where he is actually written as an interesting (or even profound) character, IMO.
 
Old 07-24-2012, 03:26 AM   #5
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
Yeah I forgot to mention the teaser played before The Dark Knight Rises. I've never seen an exclusive trailer attached to a movie before. They always used to show the ones releasing soonest locally but I guess that policy applied to a time when we didn't get movies as quick as other international locations did. This teaser was amazing.

Superman was great in all the DC animated series & movies. I enjoy the character as much as any other.
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:11 AM   #6
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
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Superman was great in all the DC animated series & movies. I enjoy the character as much as any other.
Heh, I forgot to mention that I hope that Superman is portrayed more like he was in the Animated and JLA series; I've never been a fan of the wimpy Film-Superman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywo6F4xYTvA
 
Old 07-24-2012, 09:22 AM   #7
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
I did think the way Superman was portrayed in the recent animated flick (where he fights against Doomsday) is perhaps the best Superman I've seen since Reeve's. I do agree however, that it'd be nice to see them move away from wimpy Clark Kent - although I don't want him too dark.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellchicken View Post
Also, I'd hope there's more Christopher Nolan in this one and less Zack Snyder.
he he.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalki View Post
Yeah I forgot to mention the teaser played before The Dark Knight Rises. I've never seen an exclusive trailer attached to a movie before. They always used to show the ones releasing soonest locally but I guess that policy applied to a time when we didn't get movies as quick as other international locations did. This teaser was amazing.

Superman was great in all the DC animated series & movies. I enjoy the character as much as any other.
Reading the feedback on SHH, it does seem to have divided opinion right down the middle. I like where there going with this one, having a Superman that shuns responsibility.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:03 PM   #8
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
For those that want to see Superman done right in animated form, I suggest the recently released DCU film "Superman VS The Elite". Spectacular.
Don't think that just because it's animated it's for kids, because it isn't. DCU's recent slew of animated films have all been rated PG-13, and deservedly so.
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:50 PM   #9
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
The only comic of Superman that I like is the Doomsday storyline. The Death of Superman. I own those. But, the character in general I just find boring.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:04 PM   #10
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
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Originally Posted by hellchicken View Post
Heh, I forgot to mention that I hope that Superman is portrayed more like he was in the Animated and JLA series; I've never been a fan of the wimpy Film-Superman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ywo6F4xYTvA
Yeah I remember posting that scene in the old Superman reboot thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kit View Post
Reading the feedback on SHH, it does seem to have divided opinion right down the middle. I like where there going with this one, having a Superman that shuns responsibility.
I didn't know anything about the story direction. The teaser didn't reveal much.

Anyway, watch this teaser edit with some familiar theme music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGYvRHTvXP8
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:44 AM   #11
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
Forgot to update this for those that missed it:

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Old 12-05-2012, 03:36 AM   #12
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
Because nobody likes colour, but everyone is crazy about staring into bright lights.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:44 AM   #13
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
Lens flaaaaaaare!

Lets call JJ Abrams quick!

Needz moar lenzez!
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:01 AM   #14
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
Hell yes!

I hope something similar can be done to make the old Superman movies watchable for today's audience.
I'd buy a shiny new desaturated, teal & oranged, lens flared bluray version of the first Supes flick in a heartbeat (and I don't even have a bluray player yet!).
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:10 PM   #15
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
That is a terrible fecking poster.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:26 PM   #16
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
So now Superman is like Batman; a hero with an unstable disposition and a bit of a dark side.

Clever.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:36 PM   #17
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
There's been nothing said or hinted at him being unstable or anything. And to make such a leap of a bad poster is way past reaching.

Personally, Superman has always sucked. IMO he's a dull, uninteresting "hero" and has yet to have a single good film. In my eyes.
This one, I have faith in. And despite my outright distaste for the character I'm willing to give it a go based only on my faith in the people making it.

Christopher Nolan's team have impressed me time and time again with their films. And Zach Snyder continues to make films I love (ignoring Suckerpunch because it was really, really bad).
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:22 AM   #18
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
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There's been nothing said or hinted at him being unstable or anything. And to make such a leap of a bad poster is way past reaching.

Personally, Superman has always sucked. IMO he's a dull, uninteresting "hero" and has yet to have a single good film. In my eyes.
Superman was the first costumed hero
- the first.

Superman helped to create the superhero genre...

His costume means something. It means something to the icon and it can't be replaced by a Batman suit.

- That stupid High-tech composite rubber clandestine ninja catsuit is a total joke.

...and you must be blind to not see they are going to do the dark contemplation thing with him too. "Right and Wrong is relative". It won't be long until I'm saying I told you so, and I really am not going to accept a bunch of lame excuses of how subjective the "darkness" was. Twenty-first century hollywood is dull and uninteresting. Superman was a shiny and bold, never do wrong, red-blooded, true American hero in comics and early TV. The oposite of any kind of dark warrior/hero.

and you talk about reaching,

you really have no idea what you're talking about when you call Superman dull and uninteresting... and to say that he has always sucked is beyond ignorant - he was at the top of the list of American heroes for generations of youth perhaps going back to your Grandfather, or Great-Grandfather, or Great-Great-Grandfather.

It's just downright mean. Would you visit the retirement homes in your area and explain to those people about their childhood - tell THEM that their Superman "HAS ALWAYS SUCKED"? Make sure you use the little "IMO" statement to emphasize the fact that they are free to have their own opinion that may differ from how you feel about the history of their hero.

Because opinions are always OK - any opinion is OK as long as you realize "it's JUST an opinion"

Superman is an American Icon with a very rich history and following. Superman has not "always sucked", but I doubt that you were much aware of Superman in the 30's, 40's, 50's, and 60's.

I became familiar with our True American hero in the 60s and 70s. Of course, my exposure was to the original Icon and what he stood for here in the USA... When was it for you?

Perhaps you are qualified to say this generation's portrayal of Superman on film has been dull and uninteresting. Beyond that, I'm thinking you have no idea what you are talking about.

Too bad healthy Americana has turned to self loathing... I honestly believe this generation is not proudly American, and they have lost their self worth as individuals as well. Welcome to the age of relative morality, lack of responsibility for ones own actions, and the complete and total inability for our culture to face the music, and stand proud in the face of adversity.

God help us.
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:20 PM   #19
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
I don't get the joke.
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Old 12-06-2012, 03:58 PM   #20
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
Damien has stated his opinion of Superman time and time again. Why he thinks he's dull and uninteresting, I don't believe he's ever gone into detail. Perhaps it's because he doesn't spit one-liners at the opportune moment, or because he doesn't kick ass in a flashy "Ooooo, Ahhhhhh!" way. He's not in it for glory. Those are human sentiments and feelings. Meaningless to him. He's above all that. He's not trying to be "cool".

Anyone who's followed Superman's history knows that he doesn't think as earthlings do. He doesn't care about attention, he's not trying to "wow" anyone. He's ever proud, and does only what needs to be done. Nothing excessive, or in abundance. Nothing unnecessary. He's not so much a good guy, but more of a benevolent symbol of hope, of good.

Superman, to me, is the furthest from dull and uninteresting as you can get. He can do anything. Things we haven't even thought of, things comics have never portrayed. If superheroes existed, and the world was at stake...who would you turn to? Superman. Can't be corrupted, can't be bought, doesn't know the meaning of fear, won't give up...all in or obliteration (or kryptonite).

Forget the live-action Superman movies. Read the comics or watch the more recent DC Universe Animated movies. As I stated earlier in the thread, watch the recently released DCU film "Superman VS The Elite" to see an amazing portrayal of him. These aren't kids movies.
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:00 PM   #21
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
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Nothing excessive, or in abundance. Nothing unnecessary. He's not so much a good guy, but more of a benevolent symbol of hope, of good.
Save for the fact that he is most often full on simplistic in his approach and in this probably the main driving factor for any construction business in Metropolis.
Talk about a one man urban renewal program.

I agree with Damien on this. Superman as an Archetype per definition is hard to make interesting. He basically has exactly 2 weaknesses (and if you concidere movies basically one never gets use), a consistantly straight-forward simplistic approach to solutions, and gets mostly simplistic problems to solve, really.

He is not really a brainic, nor does he need to be. Superman elevates the whole "walk blindly into trap-> escape -> return with brute force to save the day" trope to it's simplistic conclusion.
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:49 PM   #22
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
I'd like the see a Superman movie with a magic/thaumaturge-based villain. He'd be just as vulnerable as any other superhero.

Mr. Mxyzptlk, for example. Then again...

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Old 12-06-2012, 05:50 PM   #23
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
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He is not really a brainic, nor does he need to be. Superman elevates the whole "walk blindly into trap-> escape -> return with brute force to save the day" trope to it's simplistic conclusion.
Sure!
I'm guessing we'll see the new, improved , cerebral hero. I like the old Superman, and his bright, colorful, stainproof costume - and he would never snatch a bullet out of the air, he sticks his chest way out and lets stuff bounce off of it
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:27 PM   #24
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
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Damien has stated his opinion of Superman time and time again. Why he thinks he's dull and uninteresting, I don't believe he's ever gone into detail...
I've never gone into detail on why I don't like him because I've never felt compelled enough to dive into a descriptive post to explain why I don't like him. Also, I've never felt the need to justify my opinion by making others "okay" with my opinion.

And, I don't really care if KO thinks my opinion is "ignorant" or whatever simply because I don't think he's a great character.
I don't need one liners, and I don't want him to be flashy and all LOOK AT ME when he's fighting crime.

I personally just find him boring. Nothing about him as a character, his backstory... his personality... nothing has ever come across as compelling to me. Clark Kent is, in my eyes, dull. Superman is... meh. I have no in deep reasoning to bring others around to my way of thinking on the subject because I've never been interested in the character enough to form such descriptions.
The Reeves' movies I found all to be very boring. The first one is easily the best of the bunch, but it's not something I personally considering entertaining.
And Superman Returns is a fecking awful "film".

My only interest in this comes from the people behind it. I still have little interest in this character, and I'm not compelled to see how accurate they are when compared to the movies.
I enjoy the films from these people.

But, I maintain that anyone who tries to tell me I'm ignorant simply because my opinion differs from yours, well... whatever. I still believe, to me personally.. in my opinion, he's a dull character.
Just as I did (and do) with Iron Man. The movie I liked, the comics and character... I still don't enjoy. And it's the same with Thor, and many, many others.

I'm not a comic fan. There are very few I enjoy and even less I enjoy enough to actively follow. Superman... is far from one.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:59 PM   #25
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
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Originally Posted by Thief View Post
Read the comics[...]
Don't do this. It will just cause so many headaches if you try to piece stuff together.

Especially with DC's reboot thing.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:04 PM   #26
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
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I've never gone into detail on why I don't like him because I've never felt compelled enough to dive into a descriptive post to explain why I don't like him. Also, I've never felt the need to justify my opinion by making others "okay" with my opinion.

And, I don't really care if KO thinks my opinion is "ignorant" or whatever simply because I don't think he's a great character.
I don't need one liners, and I don't want him to be flashy and all LOOK AT ME when he's fighting crime.

I personally just find him boring. Nothing about him as a character, his backstory... his personality... nothing has ever come across as compelling to me. Clark Kent is, in my eyes, dull. Superman is... meh. I have no in deep reasoning to bring others around to my way of thinking on the subject because I've never been interested in the character enough to form such descriptions.
The Reeves' movies I found all to be very boring. The first one is easily the best of the bunch, but it's not something I personally considering entertaining.
And Superman Returns is a fecking awful "film".

My only interest in this comes from the people behind it. I still have little interest in this character, and I'm not compelled to see how accurate they are when compared to the movies.
I enjoy the films from these people.

But, I maintain that anyone who tries to tell me I'm ignorant simply because my opinion differs from yours, well... whatever. I still believe, to me personally.. in my opinion, he's a dull character.
Just as I did (and do) with Iron Man. The movie I liked, the comics and character... I still don't enjoy. And it's the same with Thor, and many, many others.

I'm not a comic fan. There are very few I enjoy and even less I enjoy enough to actively follow. Superman... is far from one.
If you want to throw around my accusation of "ignorance", my evaluation was purely a response to this statement:

Quote:
Superman has always sucked
You threw out a bold and blanketing statement about Superman - it was simple and concise, and reinforced with your opinion of his basis, being dull and uninteresting.

It's an opinion that doesn't stand up to the test of having a knowledge or interest in the history you mock. Example: 'Black and White television always sucked', 'The composition of Romeo and Juliet', and 'the screenplay of Gone with the Wind', 'always sucked'.

Ignorance is not stupidity... and in context, the definition of ignorance is based upon on an intended ignoring of facts, laws, history, etc.

I can't find a better word for it.

Superman for you is something entirely different from the historic icon.... and no, he didn't always suck.

In fact, I'd say I know little about you, yet I can reasonably say that if you were from a different era which held Superman as a relatively sacred and purely American icon, at a time when comic book media was a monumental part of our culture, you'd be a huge fan.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:18 PM   #27
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
Good job ignoring all of the context.
Quote:
Personally, Superman has always sucked.
Also your argument is that if he knew more about Superman, he would like it? That's not a guarantee. It also might make him like Superman less.

If he was born earlier, that he would like it as well? Maybe, maybe not. It however doesn't matter. Damien was born when he was born and he finds Superman dull.

Seriously, why do you care so much that Damien does not like Superman? Superman being an American Icon, as you say, and Damien not liking Superman means that Damien hates America and is taking a piss on your lawn or something?

I used to like Superman. Now I don't care about him. In fact, after the stupidity that came down in Gotham City Sirens and then the DC reboot, I don't care about anything DC.

Quote:
It's an opinion that doesn't stand up to the test of having a knowledge or interest in the history you mock.
Also this is really stupid.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:23 PM   #28
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Don't do this. It will just cause so many headaches if you try to piece stuff together.

Especially with DC's reboot thing.
I'm not much of a canon nazi - I was amazed when I seen the grief over the what might be done to the ROTT story - Honestly thought people didn't give it much thought.

When William Shatner absolutely crapped up so much canonical history and technical specifications in Star Trek V, I laughed it off. I'm a pretty nerdy Star Trek fan going way back, and Enterprise is not the height of a 50 story building, but here they were flying up through the middle of the ship hundreds and hundreds of feet. Not a small issue - keep in mind that once the series was ended the canonical specifications of Roddenbury's vision were layed out and followed by the letter. Nothing could be created without intense scrutiny of it's viability. Here is a quote regarding Shatner's new direction of the story
Quote:
Shatner also developed the initial storyline in which Sybok searches for God but instead finds Satan.
Roddenbury who was then about 70 yrs old, should have kicked his ass (That storyline was actually revised to be more acceptable to the studio for Star Trek V). But through it all, my position is that it didn't significantly hurt the spirit of the franchise. It's not like he created a team of Space Marines or something.

When DNF came along and Duke was a douche, I equate it to the Superman catsuit. It's not another Wonder Woman boot issue, it's serious.

If they do a good job with Superman, I will be forced to overlook the formulated reinforced latex heresy - but I see where this is going, and I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out to be an emo-hero with a gadget car ....

really.

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Old 12-06-2012, 08:25 PM   #29
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
Superman sucks.

Opinion. Mine. Doesn't need to stand up to anything due to the fact that it's my opinion.
I don't need history, or a backlog of comics to appreciate him. I've read the comics (my dad has some of the first issues)... I've always disliked him.

And, for future tense, I know what ignorance is. Ignorance is lack of knowledge on a specific subject. To say one is ignorant implies that they do not know it properly. I do not lack knowledge of the character, I just DON'T LIKE THE CHARACTER.
And, despite how you may feel about it... I don't care. I don't like him. You do, great for you. I'm glad you enjoy him. I'm always happy for someone when they can have something and truly enjoy it.

But be mature enough to understand that my opinion is mine. And it's not a matter of ignorance. It's simply a matter of everything I've read, every comic to graphic novel... every movie and cartoon. I. Just. Don't. Like. Him.
And be mature enough to respect my opinion, even if it deviates from yours, and leave me to it.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:36 PM   #30
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
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Superman sucks.

Opinion. Mine. Doesn't need to stand up to anything due to the fact that it's my opinion.
I don't need history, or a backlog of comics to appreciate him. I've read the comics (my dad has some of the first issues)... I've always disliked him.

And, for future tense, I know what ignorance is. Ignorance is lack of knowledge on a specific subject. To say one is ignorant implies that they do not know it properly. I do not lack knowledge of the character, I just DON'T LIKE THE CHARACTER.
And, despite how you may feel about it... I don't care. I don't like him. You do, great for you. I'm glad you enjoy him. I'm always happy for someone when they can have something and truly enjoy it.

But be mature enough to understand that my opinion is mine. And it's not a matter of ignorance. It's simply a matter of everything I've read, every comic to graphic novel... every movie and cartoon. I. Just. Don't. Like. Him.
And be mature enough to respect my opinion, even if it deviates from yours, and leave me to it.
Sounds very reasonable to me - But you missed this fact: Superman didn't ALWAYS SUCK

Perhaps I'm assuming you weren't alive to know better. Sorry if you happen to be 60 or 80 years old - If that's the case, I stand corrected.

---------- Post added at 09:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZuljinRaynor View Post
Good job ignoring all of the context.


Also your argument is that if he knew more about Superman, he would like it?
No. I compared it to saying "Shakespear's writing skills sucked".

I personally can't get through more than two pages of Shakespear without wondering how the hell anyone could care for such ramblings. I equate it to random psychedellic creations of the 60s. It's not very "deep" to me at all.

But in it's time it was genius. I may fail to understand why and how that is the case, but it's still a fact.

So you might argue "some people would not think of his writing as "Genius" even back in the day."

I conceed that as well - but to say his writing SUCKED would be rather ignorant of the facts.
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:00 AM   #31
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
I don't see why there needs to be a debate about someone's opinion.
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Old 12-07-2012, 07:42 AM   #32
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
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Originally Posted by crunchy superman View Post
I don't see why there needs to be a debate about someone's opinion.
Some opinions are not simply opinions of one's own experience. I spelled it out in my first response. Blanketing statements regarding a historical perspective have cultural implications. Using the word ALWAYS made me feel that he was not talking about the Superman he experienced. It's not rocket science. In what context would the word ALWAYS be appropriate? Attacks on social/cultural preferences are often just mean spirited when they are thrown around in a historical context by the following generations.... and I don't care if he loves Superman or not. I said nothing until the context changed.

It was not: "I can't stand sitting listening to an audio book or storytime radio"
That would be different.

But I say "THOSE SHOWS SUCKED"
"In fact those shows ALWAYS SUCKED"

Or even more to the general point - it's not polite to talk about ones cultural background when it is not your own.

Wouldn't that imply something about a generation of people all gathered around the radio at a time when that was a connection to the world?

Maybe I'm sensitive to this change in context because I was taught that good manners included being respectful about times that happened in which I never experienced.

But I don't want to belittle Damien's communication style... so think of it this way:
I think this speaks to something of a more simple time... perhaps dull and uninteresting is how we look at old toys, old comic books, and old horror movies. My first point is that it was not dull and uninteresting at the time.

Does that explain why I don't understand the concept of "always" being a reasonable opinion, even when encircled py "Personally" and "IMO"?
... and perhaps the proper context being very important is just my opinion.
Last edited by KO Gilligan; 12-07-2012 at 07:59 AM.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:19 AM   #33
crunchy superman

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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
opinion

o·pin·ion
[uh-pin-yuh n]
noun
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

Sorry, but opinions cannot be wrong to the person to which they belong. They can use all the ALWAYS/NEVERs that they feel like, don't have to have anything to do with historical accuracy and need not take any social or cultural implications into consideration whatsoever.

Indeed it's not rocket science - it's an opinion.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:11 AM   #34
KO Gilligan

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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy superman View Post
opinion

o·pin·ion
[uh-pin-yuh n]
noun
1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

Sorry, but opinions cannot be wrong to the person to which they belong. They can use all the ALWAYS/NEVERs that they feel like, don't have to have anything to do with historical accuracy and need not take any social or cultural implications into consideration whatsoever.

Indeed it's not rocket science - it's an opinion.
Even 8-track tape players didn't "always suck" - that's not even debatable
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:19 PM   #35
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Vector View Post
Found that very amusing!

Personally I thought the Christopher Reeves Superman films were solid up until the point where they introduced 'atomic man' or whatever his name was. The recent-ish one with Brandon Routh should have been a reboot (he made for a great superman imo) but they cast an absolutely terrible Lois Lane (would it kill her to smile) and the story was pure meh.

I'm hoping with this one they don't go too dark as I agree with KO he is representative of old school values - a darker, brooding Superman would conflict with the positive image he's supposed to represent and I doubt it would work.
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:53 PM   #36
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
I've always liked how things are sort of flipped for Superman. Clark Kent is his actual secret identity, not Kal-El the Kryptonian. And instead of a secret identity being that of strength and ability, Superman's Clark Kent is a mockery of us humans. Imperfect, clumsy, weak, frail, prone to repeating the same mistakes. How he sees us. It's actually pretty funny.
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:17 PM   #37
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
Quote:
Originally Posted by KO Gilligan View Post
I'm not much of a canon nazi - I was amazed when I seen the grief over the what might be done to the ROTT story - Honestly thought people didn't give it much thought.
I don't care about canon in comic books from Marvel and DC because it is a headache to piece it all together. So many universes, writers, crazy plots, backtracking, ignoring, etc.

Otherwise I like canon unless it is something I don't like.
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:40 AM   #38
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
Quote:
Originally Posted by KO Gilligan View Post
Sounds very reasonable to me - But you missed this fact: Superman didn't ALWAYS SUCK
Actually he did, to him.
And I would extend this to most of the other things you gave as examples above.
I think most of black and white tv/movies sucks. It's not the nature of B&W, but my ability to relate to the pacing.

If I were to say "superman started sucking for me", that implies that I liked it once. But to me, in retrospect, superman pretty much always sucked.

You are making a huge mistake here in assuming that the "always" implies that before Damiens time it sucked to everyone else, which greatly clashes with "to me". While in reality the statment is merely a matter of commenting on the personal opinion of the whole body of work, or better the quintessence rather than specifically modern aproaches over legacy.

You are projecting meaning on words that in context do not carry that meaning, ignoring the distinction of why he specifically wrote what he did,
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:40 AM   #39
KO Gilligan

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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pansa View Post
Actually he did, to him.
And I would extend this to most of the other things you gave as examples above.
I think most of black and white tv/movies sucks. It's not the nature of B&W, but my ability to relate to the pacing.

If I were to say "superman started sucking for me", that implies that I liked it once. But to me, in retrospect, superman pretty much always sucked.

You are making a huge mistake here in assuming that the "always" implies that before Damiens time it sucked to everyone else, which greatly clashes with "to me". While in reality the statment is merely a matter of commenting on the personal opinion of the whole body of work, or better the quintessence rather than specifically modern aproaches over legacy.

You are projecting meaning on words that in context do not carry that meaning, ignoring the distinction of why he specifically wrote what he did,
I kinda got that from nearly everyone here, including Damien. I'm not going to change what it meant, to me, personally, IMO.
... and I think we already knew his feelings prior to that post in which any indication of "... to me" " or "... for me" was absent. You immediately noted how easy it is to make that distinction.

I'm not trying to be a grammar marm, because I obviously thought that his opinion was that the character creation was lame. To him it was, and I still can't imagine why. How can you conclude that something was made lame, looking back like that? It was not dull and uninteresting. I wonder how your time machine exists in such a vacuum that you can't easily acknowledge that whatever is missing from Black and White TV now was not missing at the time?

I made it very clear that the context seemed to be a blanketing statement about the quality of the creation. Perhaps it was not. I'm inclined to believe that he didn't intend to hurt anyone's feelings, but I did not ignore anything. I am, however, a little unsettled about people on the internet throwing out adversarial statements and then buffing the inevitable response with "IMO".

Do you think, in your opinion, personally, that 8-track tapes always sucked?
Because they were horrible, absolutely horrible. The player ate the tape after first stretching and distorting the music, and it was a continuous loop design which makes you scratch your head about the engineering.

Funny thing is how awesome they were...how they changed the way we listened to our own personal music, and how they simply changed popular music nearly as much as any other single stage in the history of pop culture.

8-track tape players WERE awesome, and so WAS Superman. Just a couple FACTS in which I choose to acknowledge, and the very exact literal opposit of "Personally, IMO, they/he/it always sucked"


....

and for the record, I'd much rather debate the apparent direction and costume style. I think I see some definite disagreement there as well.
Last edited by KO Gilligan; 12-08-2012 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:02 PM   #40
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Re: Superman: Man of Steel
Perhaps we should move away from the sucking and rephrase it to something more palatable, such as: "Superman always was the Wesley Crusher of superheroes".



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