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Old 05-15-2009, 05:47 AM   #81
Thriller

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Vector View Post
He's saying "you pretty much have to sue".
Lethe is saying "what they're doing is completely understandable".

The only difference is that Charlie Wiederhold explains his statement, while Lethe does not.
Still not a reason to dish out that knee-jerk "troll" qualification, which seems to have been eroded so much that it has almost completely lost its meaning.
The difference is actually huge, because it includes his thoughts on the situation meaning beeing wrong about the circumstances woudnt really void his point. He is talking about making a deal and then not following through with it.

As for the troll-thing, yeah, if Im not misstaken we shared the exact same sentence. One of us took it back, the other one bashed the kettle.
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:50 AM   #82
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
I can honestly say that I don't even feel bad for 3DR. This game should've been out a long time ago. I fully support Take 2 in this.
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:53 AM   #83
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boo Boo Juice View Post
I can honestly say that I don't even feel bad for 3DR. This game should've been out a long time ago. I fully support Take 2 in this.
I don't feel bad for the CEO I just feel bad for the workers.
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:54 AM   #84
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Quote:
Originally Posted by peoplessi View Post
Well, I'm glad you are off to defend your fellow comrade in the time of need. I aimed this part of the post, which you conviniently didn't bring up "Just like all of you don't know anything about what 3dr is doing, and what they were (were not) doing for the past decade." Lethe knows? Please do share.
As expected, you fail at presenting yourself as a man with objective outlook on things.

You are suspiciously alarmed only by one side of the argument, which is in minority, and makes only 1% of uninformed shit talk here.

I'll repeat it:

Just like all of you don't know anything about what 3dr is doing, and what they were (were not) doing for the past decade

Explanation: I was actually pointing finger at hypocrisy that is going in this argument. Group without a clue is blaming others for not having a clue. Kinda ironic, isn't it?

Also, considering how they treated their fans for those 12 years, and especially after their closure, I think the other side of debate has little more credibility in "assuming" stuff. Until proven otherwise, of course.
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:54 AM   #85
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
"Dude check this out, I have a great hero and now I will approach Take 2 and tell them I will make a game that will be so awesome it will kill all games and check it out... in 2022 thats 12 years from now, I will still be working on it."

Now we all know that this is major BS but guess who really did something like this? This is hardly appropriate. If someone did this today they wouldnt get a contract. 3dr should be answering to someone about this legendary screw up.
Last edited by Ironside; 05-15-2009 at 06:07 AM.
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:57 AM   #86
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
I didn't share a sentence, I quoted one.
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:02 AM   #87
Thriller

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Actually, uhm.. no. It was not in quotes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironside
"Dude check this out, I have a great hero and now I will approach Take 2 and tell them I will make a game that will be so awesome it will kill all games and check it out... in 2022 thats 12 years from now, I will still be working on it."

Now we all know that this is major BS but guess who really did something like this? This is hardly appropriate.
I dont understand?
They didnt approach Take2.

Anyone got any links about the publicaly available deals between the companies?
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:12 AM   #88
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
We will get to see the contract soon enough. I hope.
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:15 AM   #89
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
I will repost something I posted over at Shacknews:

"They paid a hefty sum for a product, and Apogee/3D-Realms skipped town on them. I'd want my shit back too."

So if you where an author working on a book(a sequel), on your own time and dime. Then signed a contract with a publisher giving them exclusive rights to market and distribute your book WHEN/IF you are done writing it. BUT in this agreement you:

A) Retain all IP rights.(and all the while licensing the IP to other authors, movie studios, etc and use that as one of your main sources of funding)
B)Do NOT receive any funding.
C)Do NOT make any legal promises to finish the book at any particular date or EVEN AT ALL. Just that if/when you do they are they only ones that can distribute/sell it(Except for E-book versions, which you retain all of the rights to).

Now imagine a couple of years later, I come along and pay your publisher(not you, since it isn't yours to sell) $12 Million for the contract and a couple of years after that I sue YOU because you are taking your sweet time on the book to make it just right. Am I "well justified" in doing that keeping in mind this bit from C) above "Do NOT make any legal promises to finish the book at any particular date or EVEN AT ALL." Am I "well justified" in saying to the media that I "had an agreement with D-OveRMinD and paid $12 Million for the publishing rights"" in order to make the lawsuit look reasonable and in so doing hiding the fact that you had nothing to do with that money?
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:18 AM   #90
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
All things considered, the game was probably nowhere near completion and the leaked footage, in retrospect looks stupid as hell.
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:21 AM   #91
Nukkus

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Take 2 can go pound sand.
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:22 AM   #92
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Take Two don't know what there doing, they did not fund the game. So why are they doing this to 3D Realms.
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:29 AM   #93
Ironside
 
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Take 2 must have something. They could be making a grab for the IP which would be expected. Everything I'm interested in always gets killed. I'm still pissed off.
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:36 AM   #94
digimonkey
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen View Post
I will repost something I posted over at Shacknews:

"They paid a hefty sum for a product, and Apogee/3D-Realms skipped town on them. I'd want my shit back too."

So if you where an author working on a book(a sequel), on your own time and dime. Then signed a contract with a publisher giving them exclusive rights to market and distribute your book WHEN/IF you are done writing it. BUT in this agreement you:

A) Retain all IP rights.(and all the while licensing the IP to other authors, movie studios, etc and use that as one of your main sources of funding)
B)Do NOT receive any funding.
C)Do NOT make any legal promises to finish the book at any particular date or EVEN AT ALL. Just that if/when you do they are they only ones that can distribute/sell it(Except for E-book versions, which you retain all of the rights to).

Now imagine a couple of years later, I come along and pay your publisher(not you, since it isn't yours to sell) $12 Million for the contract and a couple of years after that I sue YOU because you are taking your sweet time on the book to make it just right. Am I "well justified" in doing that keeping in mind this bit from C) above "Do NOT make any legal promises to finish the book at any particular date or EVEN AT ALL." Am I "well justified" in saying to the media that I "had an agreement with D-OveRMinD and paid $12 Million for the publishing rights"" in order to make the lawsuit look reasonable and in so doing hiding the fact that you had nothing to do with that money?

You're absolutely right. Except in the shacknews article there was also this.

"According to the publisher, a second unspecified agreement was struck between Take-Two and 3D Realms in 2007."

So 3D Realms probably already got money from Take-two we didn't hear about to finish the game. All speculation of course, but that's probably how 3D Realms grave was dug.
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:40 AM   #95
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
...Also, considering how they treated their fans for those 12 years, and especially after their closure, I think the other side of debate has little more credibility in "assuming" stuff. Until proven otherwise, of course.
How exactly have they treated their fans, us? What would have you done? You don't know no more than I do about what happened during DNFs development, nor what is happening now. You assume, that's the key here, you don't know.
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:41 AM   #96
Ironside
 
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
They do care about their fans, the forums are still up. That says a lot right there.
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:48 AM   #97
Thriller

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Anyone care to guess what the Duke IP is worth? 50 mil $? More?

I get all dizzy when I try to put myself in Georges position. So he lost this wonderful company and work-"family", now facing a lawsuit from Take2, the game thats been worked on for 12 years is stuck between two struggling companies, and at the same time he (and scott) has this HUGE diamond in their pocket and has to figure out what to do with it.
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:50 AM   #98
Ironside
 
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
I think they should sell it. I want to play Duke not watch him get played.
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Old 05-15-2009, 06:56 AM   #99
Thriller

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
But then the question is, where do they sell it?
Selling it to Take2 would be bitter, and if its true that Take2 offered 25 for it I dont think they want to put up its actual worth either. I think max payne went for 25, and thats like 30-35(?) or so today - and Duke should be worth much more.

Also, how many companies could afford it? Its not like they can sell it to a private company they trust will make good use of it.

And then, when its sold, thats it. The essence of their work for the gamingindustry is lost.
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:04 AM   #100
Kit

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Quote:
Originally Posted by peoplessi View Post
You don't know no more than I do about what happened during DNFs development
Unless 3DR HQ was attacked everyday of development by ninjas, they have no excuse.
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:07 AM   #101
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Quote:
Originally Posted by fast-1 View Post
Take Two don't know what there doing, they did not fund the game. So why are they doing this to 3D Realms.
Because watching a multi-million dollar investment go *poof* unchallanged would be bad business. They don't have anything to loose and the "best" 3DRealms could hope for is ending up where they are right now: sitting on an unfinished game they can't afford finishing while T2 is squatting on the publishing rights.

Kinda funny how Take-2 acquired those publishing right through GoD, which in turn was originaly co-founded by 3DRealms in an attempt to gain independence from publishers.
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:09 AM   #102
Ironside
 
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Max Payne sold for 50mil.
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:25 AM   #103
Blue Lightning
 
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
I gotta support Take Two in this. They are trying to get the game done and out on shelves, Otherwise they would never see a dollar from all of this...and we might never see DNF.
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:28 AM   #104
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Quote:
Originally Posted by v.o View Post
SO : i will make a Duke Nukem Forever Total Convertion using the Cryengine. I will Use All the Leaked Data (map, Plot, Storyboard,) all screenshots,video, and some Closeups for making Textures and 3Dmodells. And i will Release it withinvfew Months.
No, you won't release it "withinvfew Months" as you wrote, and do you know why? Because mapping, modelling, making textures and scripting TAKES A WHOLE LOT OF FUX0RING TIME. This is not something one person can do in few months.

Not knowing this (together with your spelling) make me quite sure that your "3D skills" exist only in your head, and you're just an angry n00b.
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Old 05-15-2009, 07:40 AM   #105
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
TAKE-TWO (up the arse) needs to ESAD!
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:12 AM   #106
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Quote:
Originally Posted by altered reality View Post
no, you won't release it "withinvfew months" as you wrote, and do you know why? Because mapping, modelling, making textures and scripting takes a whole lot of fux0ring time. This is not something one person can do in few months.

Not knowing this (together with your spelling) make me quite sure that your "3d skills" exist only in your head, and you're just an angry n00b.
******* watch me
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:12 AM   #107
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delicieuxz View Post
The suit isn't going to start for another year, and T2 are seeking an order to prevent 3dR from altering the game until the end of the suit - at which point the game may belong to T2 and no longer 3dR. So, from that point, T2 would have to pick up development on the game themselves and with their own team. Training the team and getting them familiar with the project will take time, as will development once they are able to work smoothly with it. You probably won't be seeing DNF for at least another 2 years if Take-Two are successful with this suit, and by that point it will be a bargain-bin title due to very outdated graphics.

If 3dR finished development on their own (had they the funds), they would be finished in under a year - according to all recent information that has come to light.
God thats pretty depressing.
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:17 AM   #108
Mackan
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Take Two is just taking a chance to get something out of this. However, I find it unlikely they will. 3D Realms may have done mistakes and mismanaged the development of DNF, but I am sure there is something fishy (and possibly rotten) with Take Two's part in this as well...
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:26 AM   #110
Ironside
 
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Take 2 want to hear the death rattle and see the IP pop out.
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:26 AM   #111
Kit

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Quote:
Originally Posted by v.o View Post
******* watch me
hahahahha...

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Old 05-15-2009, 08:28 AM   #112
Legopilot
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Take 2 is just a greedy mother*&*^. Scott just said 3drealms never got any of the 12 million. For some reason I believe him. Maybe George is guilty of driving the company into the ground, but the man has/had intent to finish DNF. Time to kick ass and chew bubble gum in New York. ;P
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:29 AM   #113
Kristian Joensen

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
"Scott just said 3drealms never got any of the 12 million. For some reason I believe him."

This is an undisputed fact, a matter of public record.
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:32 AM   #114
Ironside
 
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Take 2 allocated 12 mil...where did it go?
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:37 AM   #115
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Quote:
Originally Posted by v.o View Post
******* watch me
I'll donate to you 1 dollar if you get it done.
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:46 AM   #116
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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legopilot View Post
Take 2 is just a greedy mother*&*^. Scott just said 3drealms never got any of the 12 million. For some reason I believe him. Maybe George is guilty of driving the company into the ground, but the man has/had intent to finish DNF. Time to kick ass and chew bubble gum in New York. ;P
It's irrelevant where the $12M went. Fact is, Take Two bought the rights on the fact they believed the game would eventually be finished, and be successful, so I don't know why people are throwing this around like it means something. They have a right to try and get back their investment.
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:50 AM   #117
Thriller

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironside View Post
Take 2 allocated 12 mil...where did it go?
To.. uhm... infograims/atari/GOD/god....... someone.

Its pretty much a chaindevelopment that stopped having anything to do with 3DRealms a long time ago as far as Ive gatherd. Still, whatever is written in the original contract should still be valid, but I doubt thats the problem. The eventual problem is that deals might have been made between take2/3dr that we are not aware of. If not, I cant see 3DR actually losing this. But chanses are things have happened.

So now Take2 wants to stop the production. Great. They can seriously go f* themselves if they dont budge to solve this quickly.
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Last edited by Thriller; 05-15-2009 at 08:53 AM.
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:56 AM   #118
Kristian Joensen

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironside View Post
Take 2 allocated 12 mil...where did it go?
To Infogrames, well actually it went like this:

When DNF was announced in 1997, GT Interactive was the publisher(they where not financially involved). In 1999 or so Infogrames bougth GT Interactive. In December 2000 Take Two bought the publishing rights from Infogrames for $6 Million up front + $6 Million to be paid when DNF was done. Again this was a deal between Take Two and Infogrames. In 2006 Take Two and Atari(Infogrames new name) re-negotiated that deal so that they didn't have to pay that later $6 Million any longer. Instead paying a bit smaller amount to Infogrames then. Again this was money paid by Take Two to Infogrames not 3DR.
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Old 05-15-2009, 08:56 AM   #119
Ironside
 
Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thriller View Post

So now Take2 wants to stop the production.
WRONG they want the Dallas team to finish it, 3drealms.
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:17 AM   #120
Babe

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Re: Take Two Sues 3D Realms :O
Question is how much 3DR got from the first publisher GT interactive ? If they did get some money from GTI , which I assume they did, then they did had an obligation towards GTI. And if GTI (later Infgrames) has sold those rights to Take 2, then 3DR is indeed obligated towards Take 2 as they have the publishing rights now. And why should Take 2 pay 3DR money when all it wanted was the publishing rights and it bought those rights off from Infograemes ?

If 3DR did indeed took some advances from it's intial publisher GTI, it is obligated to to give them a game, and if by change of handes Take 2 is the publisher now, 3DR is indeed obligaed to give Take 2 a complete game. I dont think 3DR can say secrew you Mr. Take 2 because we didnt have a publisher aggreement with you in the first place, because Take 2 has acquired the right by purchasing it off from Infogrames, and purchasing the right from Infogrames was a legally right purchase.
Last edited by Babe; 05-15-2009 at 11:46 AM.
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