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Old 09-16-2010, 09:17 PM   #1
MrBlackCat

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Third Party Development of 3D Realms IP's
This is a general statement as a reaction over time from multiple forums and threads relative to 3D Realms no longer or at least not currently being a developer.
I am not so much against outside development as some.

When id Software did DooM I loved it for what it was... then they farmed out Heretic and HeXen to Raven and I loved them AS MUCH as DooM. They are games I like. I don't care to listen to all that is "wrong" with these games, or what could have been better, I liked them for what they were.
I don't like hearing all the crap about Duke Nukem 3D that wasn't "done right" either. I liked it, no matter how flawed you believe it is.
The same goes for Duke Nukem 3D. It was great... the game was epic to me. Not the content as a stand alone, but the game experience as a whole, in the context of the time it was made. I see all the bitching about what was "wrong" with Duke Nukem 3D and I just don't care. I liked it, no matter "how bad" it was... which leads to my point. The "other" Duke Nukem games and/or add-ons that were developed outside 3D Realms were great to me. Time to Kill, though 3rd person, I really enjoyed.
I just don't see where so many people here complain about third party development.

I would love to see another Shadow Warrior game... but I am sure if 3D Realms chooses other IP's to have developed, then I will surely try them. If I don't like them, I won't buy them. Simple to me.

We have to realize that the people who brought to life our Duke Nukem also aren't here anymore, and even if they were, people change over time and this is reflected in whatever it is they make. George B was a major player in the creation of Duke Nukem, but he was only an architect, not the engineer. Even he has changed. Sadly some people even grow up, which doesn't make good games. Happens in the music industry too.

So what is the big deal if 3D Realms no longer develops games? DNF didn't work out, but we all know how that went. So until/unless a sucky exploit of a 3D Realms IP comes out, why can't we just wait and see how it goes?

I am waiting on the edge of my seat, to see what is next. I don't want the perfection that was to be DNF, I just want some more fun running on modern tech.

MrBlackCat
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YES! I do wear my Duke Xtreme t-shirt every day!* :)

*(Not really, sometimes I wear my Time to Kill t-shirt... like while I am washing my other Duke shirts for instance.)
:)
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:22 AM   #2
X-Vector

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Re: Third Party Development of 3D Realms IP's
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Originally Posted by MrBlackCat View Post
So what is the big deal if 3D Realms no longer develops games?
It just means that 3D Realms isn't a big deal anymore.

Or any sort of deal for that matter.
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Old 09-17-2010, 03:56 AM   #3
Kristian Joensen

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Re: Third Party Development of 3D Realms IP's
Why? They have a long and successful history working with 3rd parties.
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Old 09-17-2010, 07:39 AM   #4
Nacho

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Re: Third Party Development of 3D Realms IP's
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Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen View Post
Why? They have a long and successful history working with 3rd parties.
This. I think that they really could become a great producer to be honest. 3DR have had some great ideas and if they have the time now to focus solely on producing then I think they could start a new age for them to bask in.
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Old 09-17-2010, 06:28 PM   #5
MrBlackCat

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Re: Third Party Development of 3D Realms IP's
Think of it like this maybe...
If 3D Realms has learned from their mistakes, they should have the experience to rule the gaming world at this point.
(ok, that was pretty harsh, but still a reality)

I suppose mostly I am talking about George B as he is currently "it" as Scott Miller seems to be busy elsewhere. From the outside it looked like Scott is not happy with George on some levels and maybe with Duke Nukem Forever out of the way, they can re-start and get some things done.

Again, the Question and Answer with Scott Miller was very positive in my opinion. With this shakey ground 3D Realms is on (in my opinion) I think there is a lot riding on the next thing they produce. I think we will know fairly quick how this is going to end up.

I am watching... and think a lot of people are watching. Maybe they can now pressure Apogee to tighten up with their current projects. If you can't produce a game for a handheld in 3 years, you can't make it in this industry... in my opinion.

I hope the silence breaks soon from 3D Realms though...
A list of things "we MIGHT do" from 3D Realms would be really appreciated I think. No ties, no promises, just what direction they would like to go with this company.

MrBlackCat
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YES! I do wear my Duke Xtreme t-shirt every day!* :)

*(Not really, sometimes I wear my Time to Kill t-shirt... like while I am washing my other Duke shirts for instance.)
:)
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Old 09-19-2010, 07:06 AM   #6
X-Vector

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Re: Third Party Development of 3D Realms IP's
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Originally Posted by Nacho View Post
This. I think that they really could become a great producer to be honest. 3DR have had some great ideas and if they have the time now to focus solely on producing then I think they could start a new age for them to bask in.
I'm not interested in producers, I'm interested in people that develop games (that interest me).
3D Realms and/or Radar may enjoy a successful future of inventing corny game (character) names and 'borrowing' ideas from other media creations to harvest new IP's, but self-important "thinktanks" don't impress me much.
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Old 09-19-2010, 08:30 AM   #7
Kristian Joensen

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Re: Third Party Development of 3D Realms IP's
How in the world are they self important? 3D Realms has always played quite a significant role in the 3rd party projects they have been involved including creatively. 3DR and Radar Group are co-designers and co-writers of the games they are involved with.

"inventing corny game (character) names"

So you are criticizing games on account of their names now? What in world is wrong with naming games after their main character and picking those names such that they are marketable? That does not in any way, shape or form, directly or indirectly worsen a game. Indeed putting a focus on the main character(s) can only make a game better IMO. I love character centered games.

"'borrowing' ideas from other media creations to harvest new IP's"

What is this supposed to mean? You seem to be totally misunderstanding what Radar Group is.
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Old 09-19-2010, 09:19 AM   #8
X-Vector

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Re: Third Party Development of 3D Realms IP's
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen View Post
How in the world are they self important?
http://www.radargroup.com/about.html

Quote:
So you are criticizing games on account of their names now? What in world is wrong with naming games after their main character and picking those names such that they are marketable? That does not in any way, shape or form, directly or indirectly worsen a game. Indeed putting a focus on the main character(s) can only make a game better IMO. I love character centered games.
Corny is nice where it's appropriate (the Duke Nukem games), but it certainly isn't a catch-all solution and gaming history has shown that neither absent (id games, GTA III) nor seemingly meaningless and non-witty character names (Mario, Lara Croft) stand in the way of success.

Quote:
What is this supposed to mean? You seem to be totally misunderstanding what Radar Group is.
My bad, I should have used "paying homage to" in stead of "borrowing".
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Old 09-19-2010, 09:32 AM   #9
MrBlackCat

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Re: Third Party Development of 3D Realms IP's
Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Vector View Post
I'm not interested in producers, I'm interested in people that develop games (that interest me).
3D Realms and/or Radar may enjoy a successful future of inventing corny game (character) names and 'borrowing' ideas from other media creations to harvest new IP's, but self-important "thinktanks" don't impress me much.
I don't really understand this statement... I see developers as the workers under the architects. People like George are creative directors of sub groups of people who physically make the games. George as the Architect only creates a “picture” of what is desired. Then all the people create the details with expertise in their own field. (e.g. programming, artwork, level design etc) They all need each other, but there has to be an architect in there somewhere. George can be this with other teams.

Think of this also... an “outside” team is less likely to continually give in to his desires to add “too much” to a game like seems to be the case at 3D Realms.

I like this example. Look at what John Romero did with Heretic as the Architect! Raven was the developer, but John R. oversaw the project. Excellent.

You can’t do all the work yourself anymore in modern games. When people like Ken Silverman made Kens Labyrinth with only one persons assistance, even then, that was a rarity. Same for David Gray and his Nightmare 3D. Someone has to visualize it and someone has to make it... large teams of people these days. People don’t automatically work well together either, so there needs to be someone directing at the top as well.

None of these named entities can make it on their own anymore. You have to have artists, programmers, scripters on and on and most of these people have to have AT LEAST an understanding of the others positions in order to make a game.

This is why I don’t get the above statement... all of the above mentioned persons make up a development team. So what difference does it make if they are in offices in different locations? The 3D Realms internal development team has been disbanded. So what would be the difference in an internal one and an external one really? External teams will still be directed just as the internal one was in my opinion.

Let me add this regarding Radar Group. I am not impressed. I understand your (X-Vector) statement of Self Important based on this view BECAUSE they have done nothing tangible yet. I don't state "who I am" until I show people what I can do and I don't care for those who do. Again I say, there is a difference between confidence and arrogance. Arrogance is confidence without collateral. (e.g. When Its Done... well it didn't get done, did it. )

MrBlackCat
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YES! I do wear my Duke Xtreme t-shirt every day!* :)

*(Not really, sometimes I wear my Time to Kill t-shirt... like while I am washing my other Duke shirts for instance.)
:)
Last edited by MrBlackCat; 09-19-2010 at 09:41 AM.
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