Forum Archive

Go Back   3D Realms Forums > General Topics > Programming Forum
Blogs FAQ Members List Social Groups Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-14-2005, 08:20 PM   #1
DirkStarscream
Guest
OSes good for programming
Hi there
I was thinking of acquiring an alternative operating system, preferably one a little more assembler-programmer-friendly than windows, one that has a comprehensive source for documentation regarding system calls, maybe even that supports .com programs and dos .exes. A good GUI would be a bonus. Does anyone have any suggestions? If I went for Linux/Unix, any specific release? Or how about OS/2 from IBM?
thanks in advance
Dirk
 
Old 01-17-2005, 02:10 AM   #2
Sephiroth
Re: OSes good for programming
DirkStarscream, Today there are no opperating systems that "like" Assembly Language, in my own opinion this is the most foolish idea ever consived, instead programmers would rather use C/C++, I have yet to understand way, I mean to me the best way to get the best response times and speed is to get as close to the hardware as possible, but todays OS guru's think hey we have the processor power.. hell why not code a whole OS in Java!, no better yet BASIC, I'm sure by the year 2010 we will have computer fast enouph to run these OS's...

I'm with you, but then as a ASM coder, Assembly breaks all the rules, we can code anything however we want... we don't ned API's we can make our own functions that can be both weaker then the standard or alot faster... its just a matter of .. how much time are you willing to put in to what you are doing... see my friend we have no restrants, like compilers do, we can do anything the CPU is able to control... but today isent about making things go faster, its about money... well you'd think that program price M$ sets, you'd think they were codded the programs they sell in pure 100% ASM.. but nope...

Thats why I highly support ZSNES for both Linux and DOS why? because it's pure 100% Assembly language and it shows because SNES9x doesnt even come close to the accracy ZSNES does, from the the timer to the chip emulation ZSNES mops the floor with SNES9X or we shall call it "Mr. C/C++".

It doesn't matter if we are under Linux or Windows we don't HAVE to follow the API's or functions C/C++ have, I mean really if we need power we could always build our program in a way that C/C++ can't even compare to.. do you know about "piping" right there are some instructions that can be combined and sent to the CPU at almost double the speed, so if we sent 4 instructions to the CPU in a certen way it would be like sending only 2, making it already twice as fast as any C/C++ programs out there, and thats without optmizations, and shourtcuts and hacks and etc...lol

What do you wanna make anyways?
__________________
"..wait, this thread is a joke, right?" -TerminX
Sephiroth is offline  
Old 01-17-2005, 02:41 AM   #3
CronoMan
Guest
Re: OSes good for programming
Quote:
Sephiroth said:
blablablablablablablablablabla

Man, you're on fire

I think BeOS is a close friend of ASM.

And, btw, MS VC++ has an inline assembler

__asm
{
}

And the cool thing, is that you can use you're C/C++ defined variables directly in the __asm function.

like
int mongo;

__asm
{
mov mongo, 12h;
}

And masm lies in the bin directory in MS VC++ somewhere. And that's a pretty good assembler, actually, it's probably one of the best. And documentation you can find on msdn.microsoft.com and if you're not that into ASM yet, you can find the documentation of the Intel intstuction set on intel's website.
 
Old 01-17-2005, 10:57 AM   #4
DirkStarscream
Guest
Re: OSes good for programming
I am working on an assembler which assembles 16, 32 and 64 bit x86 code, which I want to eventually port to my own OS, and maybe a Linux OS. I also have a set of retro-style games that I want to make. Every new release of Windows that appears, there is one more program that wont work, so I am seriously considering abandoning M$ altogether, because there is no guarantee that windows XP wont object to my code in some way. (I am also considering doing some programming for Motorola processors, I have always liked them). I have also tried finding information on the Win32 API but the only stuff I could find was C++ stuff. Absolutely useless. The Microsoft website offers nothing but articles telling us 'how good they are' rather than useful information. In a nutshell, I've had enough.
 
Old 01-17-2005, 12:15 PM   #5
8IronBob

8IronBob's Avatar
Re: OSes good for programming
I haven't tried this yet, but with Windows Mobile 2003 and all, would that be at all related to the old Windows CE OS line? If so, would any Visual Basic 6.0 or Dev-C++ programs be easy to port from the desktop from Win XP into a Windows CE/Mobile 200X format?
__________________
PC Specs (a.k.a. "Galacticus Prime"): http://pcpartpicker.com/p/7Vk7FT
8IronBob is offline  
Old 01-17-2005, 05:36 PM   #6
DirkStarscream
Guest
Re: OSes good for programming
8IronBob: Your guess is as good as mine, all I know is that a ton of my programs which worked in DOS, windows95 and 98 just dont work any more. As far as portability goes, it seems to depend on what VxDs and stuff you use. Half the errors I got were to do with certain required files not being present. Beyond that, my knowledge of the internal working of windows is not sufficient for me to do any more than speculate
 
Old 01-17-2005, 05:40 PM   #7
Sephiroth
Re: OSes good for programming
Linux kernel API's are documented and not to mention they don't change, when they do they tell you what they changed, just read threw the kernel's chnagelog to see if there are any changes to the kernel calls, in linux there are two was of calling functions, driect kernel calls or through a C/C++ wrapper.So you have two choices on how you can call functions. The question is do you have the time to learn how to use Linux?
__________________
"..wait, this thread is a joke, right?" -TerminX
Sephiroth is offline  
Old 01-17-2005, 05:53 PM   #8
Sephiroth
Re: OSes good for programming
Quote:
CronoMan said:
Quote:
Sephiroth said:
blablablablablablablablablabla

Man, you're on fire

I think BeOS is a close friend of ASM.

And, btw, MS VC++ has an inline assembler

__asm
{
}

And the cool thing, is that you can use you're C/C++ defined variables directly in the __asm function.

like
int mongo;

__asm
{
mov mongo, 12h;
}

And masm lies in the bin directory in MS VC++ somewhere. And that's a pretty good assembler, actually, it's probably one of the best. And documentation you can find on msdn.microsoft.com and if you're not that into ASM yet, you can find the documentation of the Intel intstuction set on intel's website.
1) Now did he say anything about C/C++? I don't recall anything about it in the post do you?

2) Depending on C/C++ just to use assembly is like depending on M$ paint to reander 3D models

3) MASM is a slow peice! NASM is by far better and is able to use 64bit regesters not 32bit ones. Also supports a wide variity of platforms. not just "Windows"

4) Inline assembly is great, just get thoughs retarted looking brackets away from my code!!!

So shut your blablablablablablablablablabla hole!
__________________
"..wait, this thread is a joke, right?" -TerminX
Sephiroth is offline  
Old 01-17-2005, 07:46 PM   #9
IwantMORE

IwantMORE's Avatar
Re: OSes good for programming
OS X ships with a complete development kit I don't know how low level you can get but one big advantage with a closed hardware system is you know it's gonna run on all macs.
IwantMORE is offline  
Old 01-17-2005, 10:37 PM   #10
Kevin Wolff

Kevin Wolff's Avatar
Re: OSes good for programming
Quote:
Linux kernel API's are documented and not to mention they don't change,
Classic. You know how you have to recompile 99% of modules whenever you change kernel versions? There you go.

But that's just the kernel. Most of the C libraries don't change very often...last *major* change was around 1999/2000.
__________________
"Face it, MS executives could eat babies on primetime TV, fund another Holocaust and shit on the Pope, and still would have 95% marketshare." -0marTheZealot
"There can be no Infidel, without Dell." -Wamplet
Get a real keyboard.
Kevin Wolff is offline  
Old 01-17-2005, 10:53 PM   #11
Sephiroth
Re: OSes good for programming
Actully you don't anymore as of kernel 2.6 the kernel can and will attempt to load the modules proplerly (force modules =y)

and those have nothing to do what I'm talking about, the OS's API calls to write to the screen and other functions like disk IO, never change. there is a differnce in how the kernel uses a driver and how the kernel uses an embeded function..
__________________
"..wait, this thread is a joke, right?" -TerminX
Sephiroth is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:56 PM.

Page generated in 0.13926411 seconds (100.00% PHP - 0% MySQL) with 18 queries

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Website is 1987-2014 Apogee Software, Ltd.
Ideas and messages posted here become property of Apogee Software Ltd.