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Old 10-01-2007, 11:14 PM   #1
Reaper_Man

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Super AI Project
Some of you may have seen this thread over at AMC, if so, this is just a copy-paste with the video link at the bottom. I also had to force the images to URLs because of this forum's stupid limitation on images-per-post. Damn you, Seigler!

================================
Well seeing as DT is releasing video and screens for his awesome projects (the Gravity Gun is awesome, no if's, and's or but's), I think it is time for me to follow suit.

I have been working on an advanced AI system for use in some unknown project in the future. I have completely built the AI from the ground up, so this is not an add-on to the AWOL Project Bot AI. Right now it is a little barebones and I don't have it 100% yet, but I have made huge progress in the few weeks I have been working on it. I did about 3 or 4 weeks of solid work on it before some personal stuff came up (having to move, mostly) but I am going to get back on track to get this playable. Here is a basic outline of what the AI does right now, and what things are in store for the future:

- Intelligent, non-linear pathfinding. The heart of the AI is the advanced pathfinding algorithm that allows it to navigate from point A to point B, from anywhere in the map. The AI will attempt to find the best route between it's current location and it's destination, and can examine obstacles and dangers and plan around them. Given the choice between a short hallway filled with lava versus a long hallway that is safe, it will choose the long hallway because it knows it won't get hurt. Because the pathfinder is very modular, the AI can examine the world in a very real and dynamic way. The destiation for the AI does not always have to be the Player or an enemy, the AI can be told to seek out a specific location, an item, a keycard, anything.

- The AI can also interact with the world in much the same way the player can, and map designers can introduce AI-only interaction features. An Engineer bot with explosives can blow open a wall, or can hack a computer terminal to open a lock. Bots can operate switches, elevators, and doors when attempting to find a location, though they aren't the best at it.

- In addition to moving from A to B, the AI can follow a target such as the player or another friendly indefinatly. The AI can also dynamically patrol any area, and react when an enemy enters it's patrol zone. Enemies can be told to patrol an area that they last saw the Player or other Bots at, instead of aimlessly wandering around the map.

- Combat has become revolutionized. The AI can identify areas that are best suited for cover, or exposed positions that it will try to avoid. The AI is no longer omnipotent, and does not always automatically know where the enemy is. The AI can also have varying "aggression factors", so one AI might try to stick behind cover and only fire from a safe position, while another could run gung-ho into a firefight.

- All of these AI commands are issued through a command tree that you as the Player have access to. However, the AI doesn't require that a player give the commands, and can give and receive commands from other AI. What this means is that there can be AI squadron leaders that give commands to his AI underlings, allowing the AI to coordinate intelligent attack plans completely on it's own. An AI squad leader may give one of his AI the command to rush, another the command to take cover, and a third to flank your position.

Right now I am at work so I don't have access to my home PC, but I have a video from an older version that I will upload when I get a chance. However, these pictures can pretty much tell the whole story:

This first set is from a few older versions of the AI, at the point which the bots were able to navigate from A to B intelligently.

1.) Let's have him walk forward on his own a bit.
http://www.msleeper.com/files/pathfind1.jpg

2.) Okay that was pretty easy, let's try something harder.
http://www.msleeper.com/files/pathfind2.jpg

3.) Across the map should be tough, right?
http://www.msleeper.com/files/pathfind3.jpg

4.) Looks like he's going...
http://www.msleeper.com/files/pathfind4.jpg

5.) And going...
http://www.msleeper.com/files/pathfind5.jpg

6.) And he's there, all on his own.
http://www.msleeper.com/files/pathfind6.jpg

Here is from a more recent version of the code, showing off how Bots are able to interact with the world, and a bit of an improved pathfinding code (though you can't see that in pics).

1.) Not much new here, except you can see that the Squadron option in the menu is highlighted with the number of Friendlies in your squad.
http://www.msleeper.com/files/interact01.jpg

2.) Using the menu and not point-and-clicking to select the Liztroop, I am going to have him (E) Destroy Target at this wall. Imagine a wallcrack sprite was here or something.
http://www.msleeper.com/files/interact02.jpg

3.) The Liztroop walking through the map, you can see the AI Cam in the top right. I could go on about how the pathfinding code improvements + smarter waypoint placement are awesome but pictures really can't get into that.
http://www.msleeper.com/files/interact03.jpg

4.) Liztroop about to Destroy the wall, you can see it in the AI Cam.
http://www.msleeper.com/files/interact04.jpg

5.) And here is the wall destroyed. Good job, Liztroop!
http://www.msleeper.com/files/interact05.jpg

6.) Profit.
http://www.msleeper.com/files/interact06.jpg

Enjoy.
================================

Video download link (sorry for the poor quality): http://www.msleeper.com/download.php?fileid=70
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Last edited by Reaper_Man; 10-01-2007 at 11:18 PM.
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Old 10-02-2007, 12:42 AM   #2
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Re: Super AI Project
As I said over at AMC back when you posted the feature list, this is really awesome stuff. Congratulations.

I think you will be fighting an uphill battle to get many people to play a game that uses this system, though, because there just aren't that many people around playing Duke mods. Plus, the easiest mods to get people to play are ones like SD_Duke where they don't have to know shit, they just play and see there are some differences.
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Old 10-02-2007, 12:45 AM   #3
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Re: Super AI Project
As I also said at AMC, I think I am going to try making an RTS with this. This will be beneficial because making maps for an RTS would be relatively simple, plus will showcase the pathfinding to a full extent since the player will not be involved in any combat directly whatsoever.
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Old 10-02-2007, 02:30 AM   #4
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Re: Super AI Project
a Duke RTS?

I think TerminX had a techdemo of something like that a while ago... aside from that... I'd definitely play it!

Anyway, the AI's pretty neat from the looks of it! Think it might make it's way into a Botmatch mod for DN3D?
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Old 10-02-2007, 02:49 AM   #5
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Re: Super AI Project
Too many coders. Too little level designers
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Old 10-02-2007, 09:59 AM   #6
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Re: Super AI Project
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rider View Post
a Duke RTS?

I think TerminX had a techdemo of something like that a while ago... aside from that... I'd definitely play it!

Anyway, the AI's pretty neat from the looks of it! Think it might make it's way into a Botmatch mod for DN3D?
I know there was a "proof of concept" that Blackwell did for an RTS sequel to Starship Troopers, not sure if we are thinking the same thing though. That demo was more showing off the multiple enemies fighting multiple other enemies, where as this is mostly about AI and pathfinding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Too many coders. Too little level designers
Welcome to the entirety of the Duke community history.
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Old 10-02-2007, 10:57 AM   #7
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Re: Super AI Project
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Too many coders. Too little level designers
It's not that there aren't enough level designers around, it's that coding is more fun.

In my experience from trying to work with them, it seems that mappers don't like to map. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part level designers would rather do almost anything else with their spare time than design levels. And I don't blame them -- from what I've seen, mapping is a tedious process.

Part of the problem is that standards have gone up from the old days. Nowadays, levels are expected to be highly detailed, and adding all that detail takes a lot of time and effort.
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Old 10-02-2007, 02:31 PM   #8
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Re: Super AI Project
Quote:
There are a few exceptions, but for the most part level designers would rather do almost anything else with their spare time than design levels. And I don't blame them -- from what I've seen, mapping is a tedious process.
I have to agree with this. I feel coding is more rewarding since if I dedicate a day to it I have more to show from my coding work than I do with my mapping work (not that I feel my mapping quality is bad, it's just I run out of inspirational steam very quickly)
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Old 10-03-2007, 06:33 AM   #9
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Re: Super AI Project
Have any of you guys ever tried to build a level in GTRadiant for one of the Quake games? Or played with UnrealEd?

Build is the most wonderous level creation tool ever. Its literally childs play to put a level together. The only tedious bit is constantly replaying it to work out the different tags for different effects.
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Old 10-03-2007, 06:42 AM   #10
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Re: Super AI Project
On the subject of coding vs. mapping: I can see where DT comes from with the amount of coding work I've put so far into NR within a year of time. The older 3 versions of NR[the ones that died or sucked] where mostly map-based[the first two though had sucky-arse maps], while this one is more of both. The reason I haven't done much mapping on my end of it is because there's so much coding and features that I don't know about making any official maps until the code is more 'stable' and isn't going to suddenly introduce 3 or 4 new features which might make me want/need to remake parts of each map all over again, and again, and so on.

Also, yes, detail has become a big thing in many maps these days, and quite frankly, due to situations, I don't have a computer a 1/4th as good as most people here probably do. I'm lucky to have two processors in it that combined equal 1.4ghtz or so, I'll put it this way, so my maps when made will probably be average to slightly-above-average in visual details. It's not gonna be RED/ROCH level visuals and all. :P
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Old 10-03-2007, 09:44 AM   #11
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Re: Super AI Project
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tea Monster View Post
Have any of you guys ever tried to build a level in GTRadiant for one of the Quake games? Or played with UnrealEd?

Build is the most wonderous level creation tool ever. Its literally childs play to put a level together. The only tedious bit is constantly replaying it to work out the different tags for different effects.
Yes, I have and other then making square rooms unrealed beats build on all acounts (IMO). A lot of stuff is just way to tedious in build. Also the fact that I always manage to corrupt my levels after just a few hours of work is a bit annoying (this almost never happend back in the 90s). Mapster makes mapping for Duke quiet a bit nicer but I still prefer unrealed as it is still a lot faster.
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Old 10-03-2007, 11:40 AM   #12
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Re: Super AI Project
I've mapped for almost every engine, and/or with every editor, and Build is deffinatly my least favorite of them. I have the same problem as Parkar where I can corrupt an entire map without even thinking about it, and it really discourages me to try and do more than anything simple just to test out features. My weapon of choice right now is Hammer and the Source engine.

Anyway, don't derail my thread. AI, Duke RTS, etc. I am going to try and get the basics of combat working before I try to attempt that, because once I get that done it will be relatively easy to do unit management, building buildings, spawning units, etc.
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Old 10-06-2007, 04:07 PM   #13
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Re: Super AI Project
Yes, my work was just on character to character interaction. It was slightly expanded in an SST2 alpha that was released, but that was only an alpha version of that software. The entire point being that eventually actors would be able to interact with each other on a level similar to what was done with the "Massive" engine used to create the large battles in Lord of the Rings. To fully test the system though I eventually would have had to have models of knights in armor with a certain animation set (high, low, mid block and attack animations) and then I would have basically started up the level and they'd have gone at it.

It was actually started for two projects, an idea for a StarCraft type game I had, and later the expanded "DMassive" for an actual Lord of the Rings mod. I was trying to allow for the ability to recreate the Battle of Helm's Deep.

Newer releases include some pathfinding/waypoint code (which was somewhat in the SST2 alpha) and action flags, but none of that stuff is released.
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Old 12-06-2007, 05:17 PM   #14
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Re: Super AI Project
Bumping this thread for status update, and a few requests.

I've put a lot of thought into how I want the combat system to work, and I am going to start implimenting it full-scale. Hopefully it shouldn't be too hard to get the AI to recognize when it wants to be in combat and when it doesn't, but we'll see how that goes. I've added in the basics for actually shooting projectiles, so that should be no problem.

I've officially decided to go for an RTS theme for this project, or atleast for the initial release version before I make the base code available. I'm going to work on adding a standard RTS Isometric view, and the basics of a working HUD. I'm also going to make a few simple structures that the AI can interact with and/or fight, probalby just a simple turret for now.

If anyone with modeling ability would be interested in helping me create some of the models necessary for the mod, please let me know as that is one area I have almost zero experience in.
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:47 AM   #15
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Re: Super AI Project
Would it be possible to just to drop this into the Duke bot code? Or even apply it to regular enemies in the game for a really difficult game on the original episodes? It does sound pretty awesome.
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Old 12-07-2007, 09:30 AM   #16
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Re: Super AI Project
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haravikk View Post
Would it be possible to just to drop this into the Duke bot code? Or even apply it to regular enemies in the game for a really difficult game on the original episodes? It does sound pretty awesome.
I think I can speak for RM here....it would be a lot of work to integrate this system into the normal AI. Theoretically you could do it by having all the monsters use the pathfinding code where they would normally use seekplayer. But you would need to have paths set up in all of the maps, including the original episodes, or it would be rather pointless. As for the bots, they are hardcoded and it would be much better just to make a new bot from scratch using the pathfinding code.
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Old 12-07-2007, 12:07 PM   #17
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Re: Super AI Project
DT is correct about everything.
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Old 05-26-2008, 05:53 PM   #18
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Re: Super AI Project
Bumping this thread with some new info (finally).

Since true Array support has been added I am recoding some super hacks that I had to write for the pathfinding code and the general AI. This shouldn't take too long since I'm not really improving anything, I'm just making things more efficient. Since the pathfinding is the heart of the Super AI, once that is done I think I may go ahead and release that as a standalone package for anyone to use. I'll go ahead and warn you now, it's not going to be drag-and-drop like I had originally hoped, but I will be including a basic AI actor and instructions on what functions are needed to make your enemies/friendlies work right.

I am again looking for someone who can do some basic art and/or modeling, because I would like to make a playable tech demo once the pathfinding an AI is done. I would very much like to do an RTS-style game and I have the basic needs met, I just need a few models for things like buildings and maybe a few vehicles.
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:57 PM   #19
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Re: Super AI Project
If you know how to add models into duke using the def file then this site has alot of models that would be good for static props,

http://blackrayne.net/
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:29 PM   #20
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Re: Super AI Project
Oh wow thanks for that link Commander. That might solve some of my needs.
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:46 PM   #21
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Re: Super AI Project
Yeah, just to let you know none of the models have any animations but they are still good none the less. heh
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Old 05-26-2008, 10:55 PM   #22
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Re: Super AI Project
I figured. I'm not really worried about animation really, mostly just want to showcase the pathfinding code.
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Old 05-27-2008, 05:53 AM   #23
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Re: Super AI Project
Will be awaiting to see that, heh
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Old 05-27-2008, 06:16 AM   #24
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Re: Super AI Project
I like where this is going.

Looking forward to your completed guide.
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:41 PM   #25
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Re: Super AI Project
Hi guys! How can I put in the Duke Nukem Screen a camera (or monster) view like in the pictures above?

Thanks!
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:51 PM   #26
Reaper_Man

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Re: Super AI Project
Read this article:

http://wiki.eduke32.com/wiki/Showview

That should give you enough information on how to manipulate the showview for a "monster camera".
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Old 05-27-2008, 04:47 PM   #27
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Re: Super AI Project
Thanks
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Old 03-19-2009, 10:24 PM   #28
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Re: Super AI Project
Please tell me this is still in development.... This looks promising...
 
Old 03-20-2009, 01:21 AM   #29
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Re: Super AI Project
Ugh... Necro...
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Old 03-20-2009, 02:05 PM   #30
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Re: Super AI Project
Ugh, completely and utterly useless post.
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Old 03-20-2009, 03:12 PM   #31
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Re: Super AI Project
By that logic, your post is too. He was complaining about necroposting, and you were complaining about him complaining about necroposting.

Of course, my post must therefore also be declared completely and utterly useless.
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Old 03-21-2009, 11:50 AM   #32
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Re: Super AI Project
You sir are correct.
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Old 04-12-2009, 11:25 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Piano Man View Post
Please tell me this is still in development.... This looks promising...
I second that.
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Threads as perishable food? Interesting concept.
No wonder when interesting threads have to die only for folks that jump and cry "Ooh don't touch that thread, it's old, it already stinks. rotten! rotten!"
WTF man?
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Old 04-12-2009, 11:28 AM   #34
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Re: Super AI Project
No, it's dead.
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