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prowler45
03-22-2005, 10:45 PM
If you fight the forces of hell how come we never fight satan himself? Just curious. I wouldn't say the cyber demon is because the cube says it's hell's most powerful "minion" and Satan would not be a minion. Anyway, just thought I'd throw in another debate topic.

P

Damien_Azreal
03-22-2005, 10:53 PM
I always believed that the invasion wasn't caused by Satan. Betruger caused the invasion, and by giving hell the soul cube they followed him.

Maybe he only lead one level of hell, and the other levels didn't take part in the invasion.

Who knows?

Cerberus_e
03-23-2005, 01:02 PM
ID's vision on hell is different than the vision on hell of the bible

toadsponge
03-23-2005, 05:09 PM
prowler45 said:
If you fight the forces of hell how come we never fight satan himself? Just curious. I wouldn't say the cyber demon is because the cube says it's hell's most powerful "minion" and Satan would not be a minion. Anyway, just thought I'd throw in another debate topic.

P



Why shoot your load on the first game, like Painkiller did? Expect to meet Satan on the third or fourth expansion pack.

NutWrench
03-23-2005, 05:52 PM
toadsponge said:

prowler45 said:
If you fight the forces of hell how come we never fight satan himself? Just curious. I wouldn't say the cyber demon is because the cube says it's hell's most powerful "minion" and Satan would not be a minion. Anyway, just thought I'd throw in another debate topic.

P



Why shoot your load on the first game, like Painkiller did? Expect to meet Satan on the third or fourth expansion pack.



Yeah, really. Once you've defeated Satan, what do you do for an encore?

prowler45
03-23-2005, 07:52 PM
I see what you are saying, but I was actually reffering to the older games which completed their story. Doom 3 has yet to be written. I just used the soul cube as a reference about the cyber demon. But what Damien_Azreal sounds good to me in terms of doom 3.

3rd or 4th expansion? After RoE I think Doom 3 is over. Didn't ID say they had no intention of making more Doom games? Wouldn't that include expansions?

prowler45
03-23-2005, 07:54 PM
Cerberus_e said:
ID's vision on hell is different than the vision on hell of the bible



Even if it is a different vision there still has to be a lead guy. Wether it be the satan of the bible or a guy with horns watching football and drinking beer.

Nacho
03-23-2005, 08:59 PM
prowler45 said:

Cerberus_e said:
ID's vision on hell is different than the vision on hell of the bible



Even if it is a different vision there still has to be a lead guy. Wether it be the satan of the bible or a guy with horns watching football and drinking beer.



You mean John Carmack.

Cerberus_e
03-24-2005, 05:35 AM
prowler45 said:

Cerberus_e said:
ID's vision on hell is different than the vision on hell of the bible



Even if it is a different vision there still has to be a lead guy. Wether it be the satan of the bible or a guy with horns watching football and drinking beer.



yes, the cyberdemon

FireFly
03-24-2005, 07:10 AM
Doom 3 doesn't feature hell, but rather a hell-like dimension.

Cerberus_e
03-24-2005, 09:54 AM
top 3 why it IS hell and NOT a hell-like dimension:

3) Everyone in the PDA's call it hell
2) Dr betruger says it's hell, and he knows the best of all doom 3 actors. (death will not be your only end, your soul will forever burn in hell // you will niver find the thing you seek, it's forever trapped in hell). The soulcube says it's hell (hell's mightiest warrior!).
1) the level is called HELL by the developpers, look at your autosaves. both the title of the level and the filename

Micki!
03-24-2005, 09:57 AM
FireFly said:
Doom 3 doesn't feature hell, but rather a hell-like dimension.



There were 'human souls' in that dimension then... http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/redface.gif

prowler45
03-24-2005, 10:13 AM
Cerberus_e said:
top 3 why it IS hell and NOT a hell-like dimension:

3) Everyone in the PDA's call it hell
2) Dr betruger says it's hell, and he knows the best of all doom 3 actors. (death will not be your only end, your soul will forever burn in hell // you will niver find the thing you seek, it's forever trapped in hell). The soulcube says it's hell (hell's mightiest warrior!).
1) the level is called HELL by the developpers, look at your autosaves. both the title of the level and the filename



I agree 100% with Cerberus_e here, but I still don't beleive that the cyberdemon is hell's leader. I'd say he is more like the top 5 star general in hell's army. My interpretation is also that satan is the one speaking when he says "So you made it this far" in primary evacuation not the cyber demon or Betruger. He is pretty much saying to you "you may have made it this far, but lets see you defeat my top general! I'm sure the programmers and you guys will be like "you're full of crap," but this is how I interpreted it.

laffer
03-24-2005, 06:01 PM
prowler45 said:
Didn't ID say they had no intention of making more Doom games? Wouldn't that include expansions?



Wrong. In a video interview, Todd (I think, I'm not good with names) said that they intended to expand on the Doom universe, but that they would have other people make the games for them.

pjohnsonjr
03-24-2005, 11:10 PM
prowler45 said:
If you fight the forces of hell how come we never fight satan himself? Just curious. I wouldn't say the cyber demon is because the cube says it's hell's most powerful "minion" and Satan would not be a minion. Anyway, just thought I'd throw in another debate topic.




Didn't you see how satan acted in South Park? http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Jokes aside, I think they might of stayed away from that that way they weren't invoking some Holy Roller's wrath. But that seems weird for the group that had you kill Hitler in Wolfenstein 3-D...

Maybe it was after that backlash they decided to tone it down... I can't tell you why it is or why it isn't, Ask Carmack, Romero, Hall and the other guys who created Doom why...

I could only speculate. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Merlijn
03-25-2005, 07:11 AM
Maybe Betruger is Satan http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
One of the PDA's said he went trough the gate to hell and when he came back he was somehow... different.
I assumed that Satan (or some sort of demonic force) took posession of his body (or mind) when he was in hell, so he could guide the invasion.

Maybe we'll find that out in the expansion pack http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

FireFly
03-25-2005, 11:52 AM
Cerberus_e said:
top 3 why it IS hell and NOT a hell-like dimension:

3) Everyone in the PDA's call it hell
2) Dr betruger says it's hell, and he knows the best of all doom 3 actors. (death will not be your only end, your soul will forever burn in hell // you will niver find the thing you seek, it's forever trapped in hell). The soulcube says it's hell (hell's mightiest warrior!).
1) the level is called HELL by the developpers, look at your autosaves. both the title of the level and the filename


I know all that, but it doesn't mean that every mortal who dies automatically goes there, or that the place is ruled by Lucifer.

Doom 3 re-imagines hell and puts it within specific constraints. If you look at the descriptions for the enemies you'll see they evolved there, they weren't placed by some magical force.

prowler45
03-25-2005, 12:30 PM
Merlijn said:
Maybe Betruger is Satan http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
One of the PDA's said he went trough the gate to hell and when he came back he was somehow... different.
I assumed that Satan (or some sort of demonic force) took posession of his body (or mind) when he was in hell, so he could guide the invasion.

Maybe we'll find that out in the expansion pack http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



I hope so! http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I beleive Betruger was possessed before that. If you remember he ran in with the soul cube. Hell wants the soul cube so he gave it to them. It say from the first transporter tests something possessed Betruger and that is why he did what he did. Hopefully RoE will tell us.

Also I wonder if we will find out what happened to the original Doom 3 marine.

Merlijn
03-28-2005, 03:16 PM
Well I'm replaying the game and yesterday I reached delta2a (where you get the mentioned PDA) and after relistening them I can conclude the flow of events is like this:

Betruger was the leader of the teleportation experiments, sending teams in. Most who come back were quickly detoriating (sp?) and eventually became zombies. One day Betruger went into hell himself on an unscheduled trip. Probably something lured him, hell reconized Betrugers weak, powerhungry mind.
When he came back, he was "different".
AFTER THAT he took the soulcube into hell. Soon after that hell breaks loose.

Conclusion: Betruger was a normal, but flawed (corrupt, too ambitious and powerhungry etc) human until he did go trough the portal. Then some demonic force possesed him and made sure the soulcube was save in hell (after all, this device closed the portal last time) before starting the invasion.
So Betruger during the invasion is either Satan or some powerfull demonic general (also notice that he calls the hellspawn "my children").

That's what I think anyways. who knows, the expansion pack might prove me wrong http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Duoae
03-28-2005, 07:01 PM
Correction, Bertruger is just a possessed human. He is (spoiler) <font color="#1F1F22"> at the end of the game absorbed into hell's conflagration due to his inadequacies, which lead him to become a lost soul in hell - ie. Powned by that fllying demon... note: the flying demon also seen in the expansion packs' video... </font> ....

Cerberus_e
03-29-2005, 07:41 AM
Betruger failed....
what was his mission anyway?

the story of RoE is that betruger sends 3 hunters after you.... maybe he gets a 2nd chance?

avatar_58
03-30-2005, 10:03 PM
I always thought betruger was the flying demon....that he became so corrupted that he joined the ranks of the demons to become one himself. http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Am I the only one who thinks fighting Satan sometime in a DOOM expansion could be fun? Not that wall thingy from doom2, I mean a walking, growling horned mother **** that wants to hurt you in nasty ways.

If thats the case lets hope you have to fight him one on one and not just use that soulcube...

JackpotDen
03-31-2005, 05:41 PM
Nacho said:

prowler45 said:

Cerberus_e said:
ID's vision on hell is different than the vision on hell of the bible



Even if it is a different vision there still has to be a lead guy. Wether it be the satan of the bible or a guy with horns watching football and drinking beer.



You mean John Carmack.



Thats Mr Anorexic to you.

FireFly
04-01-2005, 06:42 AM
Carmack isn't unhealthily thin.

BloodShed
04-02-2005, 03:47 PM
avatar_58 said:
Not that wall thingy from doom2, I mean a walking, growling horned mother **** that wants to hurt you in nasty ways.



You mean the "Icon of Sin" (witch is actually John Romero)

JackpotDen
04-02-2005, 04:07 PM
FireFly said:
Carmack isn't unhealthily thin.



he looks it, and gamer's are either fat (myself) or thin (Gabe Newall)