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worsel
09-24-2008, 05:10 PM
Why is there a separate button for changing between running and walking?

Why didn't they just make the controls like other console games where you walk when you push the Gamepad joystick a little, and then run when you push it all the way, or 3/4 of the way, or whatever?

Doesn't that make more sense? That's how other console games work... and it would free up another button.

Better still, they should have made the left joystick analog like the right one is. Then you could move at any speed you want.

:doh:

Joe Siegler
09-24-2008, 05:15 PM
This is a 12 year old game, I don't think we were going to totally rewrite it to that extent.

worsel
09-24-2008, 05:24 PM
You make it sound hard... are you kidding... "to that extent" ?!?

What I've mentioned is simple stuff, not extensive code re-writing.

BloodWolf806
09-24-2008, 05:25 PM
It's annoying that in the XBLA port of DooM you have to hold Left Trigger to run. Duke handles it much more efficiently.

Mr. Gruntsworthy
09-24-2008, 05:39 PM
You make it sound hard... are you kidding... "to that extent" ?!?

What I've mentioned is simple stuff, not extensive code re-writing.

Do you know anything about game code? Didn't think so.

Implementing something like that is just like adding splitscreen--it would require a moderate overhaul to the game's engine. To allow for variable speeds instead of one set speed, they'd need to dig through the entire engine, change and re-write a hell of a lot, not to mention do testing to ensure the new system didn't interfere with the rest of the engine.

A heck of a lot more simple to just have a button to toggle between two speeds instead.

Yatta
09-24-2008, 05:49 PM
I like it the way it is. In fact running in Duke3D gives me seizures. The game's pace is fast enough as it is. I like being able to push the stick all the way and not having to worry about it going too fast.

worsel
09-24-2008, 06:14 PM
Just so everyone knows, the original DN3D had joystick support with analog movement... the code is already there.

Even if they didn't implement the analog movement, they could have two speed movement with the joystick (like I explained in my first post).

The Rancidmeat PC port implemented the analog joystick support. Jonathon Fowler and I have already discussed the matter for his port... he admits it's there... it's just broken.

jagguar20
09-24-2008, 07:14 PM
i tink wosel is pretty cool guy err... criticizes gaems and doesnt afraid of anything!!11

snake289
09-24-2008, 07:16 PM
Guess this guy hasn't played the original Duke 3D :D

MegaMustaine
09-24-2008, 07:34 PM
IMHO having the joystick do what you are saying could hamper movement unintentionally, and there is no need to slow down in speed.

snake289
09-24-2008, 07:41 PM
Plus this is a fast paced game and all.

Syph
09-24-2008, 08:36 PM
Add steroids to the mix and it's just a blur of Duke-like stature

George Broussard
09-24-2008, 11:19 PM
We didn't want to. It's not a matter of being hard. It's a matter of trying to stay fairly true to the original game.

Also, if you made the stick analog from walk to run speeds, there's potential to break puzzles in the game where you must run fast. Perhaps it's too hard to hold the stick to full run and execute the move, etc. We didn't want to even bother having to test all those conditions.

So that, and wanting to keep the game as original as possible, are why.

DerricktheW
09-25-2008, 01:40 AM
Its not all that hard to rebind the run/walk key to a button like B, press it once, and never have to use it again

It's not like you ever have to actually run slow or anything.

Java the Hutt
09-25-2008, 09:53 AM
We didn't want to. It's not a matter of being hard. It's a matter of trying to stay fairly true to the original game.

Also, if you made the stick analog from walk to run speeds, there's potential to break puzzles in the game where you must run fast. Perhaps it's too hard to hold the stick to full run and execute the move, etc. We didn't want to even bother having to test all those conditions.

So that, and wanting to keep the game as original as possible, are why.

Thanks George for a complete and honest answer to this "question", err "complaint".

I personally like that you kept the game as close to original as possible.

Logan XII
09-25-2008, 03:34 PM
Plus this is a fast paced game and all.

I was just going to say, i've never had to go slow in this game. lol

worsel
09-26-2008, 11:55 AM
It's a matter of trying to stay fairly true to the original game.

Not sure I understand... the original game had analog joystick support.


Also, if you made the stick analog from walk to run speeds, there's potential to break puzzles in the game where you must run fast. Perhaps it's too hard to hold the stick to full run and execute the move, etc. We didn't want to even bother having to test all those conditions.

Again, original had analog movement capability... no broken puzzles. Also, people using gamepad joysticks use them at only two positions because the throw is so short; centered and full throw. Also, the user can adjust the sensitivity so full speed is reached before full throw.

Analog movement is not all around slower... it's only slower when you want it... otherwise ignore it. You don't have to use the joystick at partial throw... and you can always adjust the sensitivity:

Here's an example of how the sensitivity settings might work for the left joystick:

Sensitivity 0 would be full speed reached at 99% stick throw.
Sensitivity 10 would be full speed reached 1% before the stick even crosses the deadzone threshold.


If a game has analog movement, proponents of digital movement lose nothing. It takes nothing to push the joystick to full speed, or adjust the sensitivity and move full speed closer to center.

If a game has only digital movement, proponents of analog movement lose everything.

How does it hurt to have analog movement? TURN UP THE SENSITIVITY IF YOU DON'T APPRECIATE IT... YOU WON'T EVEN KNOW IT'S THERE.

You never know, you might even appreciate analog movement when you're strafing along a wall to a light switch, or strafing to line up an enemy in your sights, and you don't keep overshooting it because you can move slow IF you want to.

I'm always amazed at the resistance I get when I talk to keyboarders about analog movement... you guys don't understand it. It's not a detriment, it's a compliment.

:doh:

George, I think the real reason you didn't inculde analog movement is exactly the reason you once gave me in an email you sent me quite a few years ago when I asked you about analog movement in DNF... you said something like "it's a quality that 99.9% of people don't care about, so why spend the time implementing it". I think it's a real shame you have this attitude.

All this said... I'm not a complainer just for the sake of being a complainer. Some of you make it sound like I'm ungrateful and am complaining about nothing. This subject happens to be very important to me, and I'm incredibly passionate about it. I appreciate analog movement... I use it when it is available... I understand it. I miss it, and I am incredibly upset that the keyboard was adopted as the way to play fps's... it has destroyed a quality of gaming that was good. Analog movement makes games feel smooth and natural and more realistic... but only when and if you want it to. I don't walk around slowly in a game like some kind of idiot... I play the games the same way you people do... but when i want to line something up, or get right up to the edge of a cliff or the corner of a wall, I never overshoot the mark... I don't have to tap-tap-tap a key or my joystick in a jerky non-fluid way to get myself lined up with something.

I'll say it again:
Analog movement is not a detriment, it's a compliment.
Even if analog movement is available, you do have the option of ignoring it... you don't have to use it.

And George, I want you to know that I DO appreciate that you have re-released this game on a console... I love DN3D... it is STILL one of the best games ever made, and I WILL play it and enjoy it with only digital movement... I just wish you could see and understand my side of things... implementing analog movement, with sensitivity settings, would not hurt anyone, and people might actually come to appreciate it and like it. I mean, I'm not a complete anomoly... and I'm not an idiot.

Thanks for what you HAVE done George, and the rest of the 3drealms team!

Mchief298
09-26-2008, 02:19 PM
Not sure I understand... the original game had analog joystick support.


:EDIT: BTW, as far as I remember no it didn't have analog support. But that's just me...

What I want to know is why you'd even want sensitive movement... I mean so far all the FPS's that I've come to know and love are all fast paced, and IMO having sensitive movement would kill those games, ESPECIALLY in DN3D, it's too Fast-Paced for something like that, and the original game did have gamepad support yes, but I personally don't remember any gamepads with analog sticks on them when this game was originally released. It's more or less a question so please try to not get offended by it, we all have our opinions and we're all entitled to them. ;)

worsel
09-26-2008, 03:05 PM
No problem Mchief298.

I used to play the original DN3D using a PantherXL Joystick/Trackball combo. The original game supported analog moving and strafing. So does the Rancidmeat windows port. The Jonof windows port has partial support... fixing it is on Jonothan Fowler's list of things to do. Nowadays I use a CH Products Joystick and a Kensington Optical Trackball.

Your comment emphasizes the misconception that every keyboarder seems to have about analog movement... you think it makes a fast-paced game slow down... I tried to explain this in my last post... I'll try to explain a bit better this time:

If you are using a joystick for moving, whether it is a gamepad thumb operated joystick, or a full-size hand-held/operated one, the sensitivity is adjustable... so if you find it difficult to push the joystick all the way to full throw, you can simply move the full-speed threshold closer to center. But realistically speaking, especially with a gamepad joystick, which has a very small throw, it is not an issue to move and use it at it's full throw. Next time you play, take note of your left thumb and joystick, and I can pretty much guarantee you that you play the entire time 'mashing' the joystick from it's one extreme to it's other. I bet you never use it at partial throw. So in this case, if the joystick had analog support, you wouldn't even realise it.

That said, here is an interesting side-note: Most console games that you might think have analog movement actually do not. Most have two-speed digital movement, just like they did/would in their PC keyboard-style version. What they do when it comes to the gamepad control, is to give you walk speed when you push the joystick from center to about 50%-70%, and then it changes to run speed from there to full throw. An example of this is Bioshock: push the joystick a little to walk... push it all the way to run. This is, BTW, exactly how I set-up my CH Joystick to work with all the PC games I play (since none ever have analog support anymore). This is, I believe, quite possibly one of the reasons why keyboarders think analog movement means slow movement. It is because this two-speed movement that you all encounter nowadays, is not adjustable. Where I have explained that with analog movement you can adjust the sensitivity to move the full-speed threshold to whatever joystick throw position you want, these two-speed joystick set-ups are not adjustable. They should be, but the game makers do not give you any options in the set-up menus to adjust this walk-to-run threshold setting. So if they set it too high for your liking, you feel like you are inadvertantly walking around too much... the transition from walk to run doesn't happen soon enough for your liking. So remember, two-speed joystick movement is NOT analog movement, it is two-speed digital movement mapped to a joystick.

Let's compare two-speed digital movement, as I have just defined it, to analog movement. Let's say that in the two-speed digital setup that the threshold from walk to run is set at 70%. So from center all the way to 70% all you are doing is walking. With analog movement the exact walk speed you encountered in the two-speed setup, might occurr at about 30%. Below that you could go even slower, but from 30% to 70%, where with the two-speed setup you are STILL just walking, with an analog setup your speed would be constantly increasing, so that by the time you got to 70% you would be almost at full speed. These two scenarios are VERY different to each other.

Please do not confuse the two-speed digital movement, found in most console games, with proper analog movement... they are not the same... they do not feel the same.

So my point is that if a game had analog support, you'd probably never even realise it because you rarely use the gamepad joystick at partial throw. If by small chance you were the sort of person who only pushed his joystick part way all the time, you could simply adjust the sensitivity setting so that full speed occurred at some small partial throw of the joystick, or you could turn the sensitivity all the way to maximum and you'd have nothing but full speed, even at the smallest of joystick positions. Have you ever played with the sensitivity settings for the right joystick or your mouse (both of which are analog)?

I'll say it again: Analog movement is not a hinderence or a detriment... it is a compliment that you can take advantage of, or ignore completely. So why shouldn't we be given the choice to use it if we want to? The answer is because the gaming world has gotten used to the loss of analog movement since the advent of using the keyboard to move. We have forgotten what it is and how it works. We now, for some reason, have this misconception that analog=slow. Absurd.

And one other note I wanted to make to George: if you implemented analog movement, which I believe I have pointed out quite clearly, would not adversely affect anyone, you could/would still want to leave the RUN MODE toggle available as well. You wouldn't change anything except to add analog movement to the joystick, and a sensitivity setting in the options menu, which you could set defaulted to 8 or so.

Mchief298
09-26-2008, 06:38 PM
hehe, well actually adding a sensitive movement would kill the fast paced thing for me, b/c my controllers are too sensitive, and yea i see your point about the having run mode on all the time, but isn't that more complicated than it sounds? see i have no real intelligence in programming, but this seems harder than you make it to be, then again maybe not, because i look at doom for the xbla and it has what you're talking about. Like you move the left joystick barely to the left/right/up/down or wherever and it makes you walk slower than you usually would, and see that game is older than DN3D, but it also had another company working on it, who possibly had the knowledge in that area.(I'm NOT saying 3DRealms doesn't) Just they ported this themselves, and they wanted to keep the game as original as possible, yes it had joystick support as you pointed out (which i didn't know about until you said something.) You do make your valid points, but from what i see, 3DR had more or less a limited time to do this, seeing as how they wanted to continue production on DNF. *Thinks for a minute... xD*

I'm not saying that what you say is completely wrong, and I do agree with you, maybe they could POSSIBLY (not saying it's going to be done, or even if it's possible.) But if they tried to add it to an update, then maybe it could be done then. From what i see so far, they had a time frame(?) to do the port in, so not exactly everything that everyone wanted could be added.

I'm not trying to speak for anyone else w/o their permission, and I'm not trying to be a jerk, if i am I'm sorry. Just that's my view on this whole concept. xD

Nacho
09-27-2008, 06:16 AM
I'm not seeing a problem with this, if you want to take your time to slowly inch...forward... lining up your perfect shot, chances are you're already dead in Dukematch.

Joe Siegler
09-27-2008, 07:37 AM
I'm not seeing a problem with this, if you want to take your time to slowly inch...forward... lining up your perfect shot, chances are you're already dead in Dukematch.

Indeed. The gameplay pace is far faster than just about everything out there, so modern concepts like this don't apply to 12 year old gameplay styles.

George Broussard
09-27-2008, 10:18 AM
I don't recall the old game having analog joystick movement, but maybe you are right. Are you certain that you'd move at varying speeds based on the position of the stick? The programmers told me that Duke basically had 2 speeds only, walk and run. I have a feeling that the old game supported joystick movement, but still only had 2 speeds?

If you're right, then we overlooked it in the port and clearly should have done it for the 360 sticks. But we were in a hurry and it's probably something that didn't get enough of a look. I'd have to verify that the original game actually had variable movement speeds, though, vs just slow/fast.

worsel
09-30-2008, 12:34 AM
Nacho and Joe,

I'm not talking about "slowly inching forward"... I'm talking about the added precision gained by being able to move a very small distance accurately (and therefore quickly) because your movement speed is greatly reduced meaning you don't overshoot your mark because you're moving too fast. Think of it this way: you know how you lose accuracy when you turn the mouse (right-hand 360 stick) sensitivity up too high because the crosshair moves too quickly? You know what I mean? You want to move the crosshair just a little, but because the crosshair now moves so fast you go too far and then have to tap back the other way, then you go too far again... you can't aim accurately (and therefore you can't aim quickly) because the mouse/stick is too sensitive (moves too fast). So what do you do? You turn the speed (sensitivity) down until it moves slow enough for you to be able to aim quickly and accurately.

Well, you must already know that good players do alot of their aiming by strafing, so that they are always moving... if you are not strafing and only using the mouse/stick to turn and aim, then you're a sitting duck. But here's the deal: YOU CAN'T STRAFE-AIM ACCURATELY WHEN STRAFING IS NOT ANALOG BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE SLOW ENOUGH MOVEMENT AVAILABLE... IT'S LIKE THE SENSITIVITY IS TURNED UP TOO HIGH!

But when you want to move at full speed, you still can... you just push the joystick all the way, or most of the way (you decide by setting the sensitivity to where you like it) and voila... you're running at full speed... just like always. Analog movement gives you the best of both worlds. You don't lose anything... but you gain added accuracy for moving small distances quickly.

This feature also comes in handy when quickly trying to strafe up in front of a switch... or stopping up close to an edge of a cliff or ledge without going over.

I hope you understand me now?

:)

-------------------------------------------------------------

This next bit is for George:

Thank-you for your time on this matter George. I'm really quite sure the original had analog movement. Here's a bit from an email I sent Jonathon Fowler on the subject, with regards to his port. I think what I found, and his reply back to me, will shed light on the matter for you.

Here is my email to Jonathon:

----------

Hi Jonathon,

I was trying to play JFDuke3D using an Xbox360 gamepad controller. I was hoping to set it up to work the way all shooters work on console game systems; the left thumb-operated joystick is for moving and strafing, while the right joystick is for looking up and down, and turning.

A summary of the Xbox360 controller’s available axes, and what they should be set to, is as follows:

X-axis: strafing
Y-axis: moving
Z-axis: none (although actually, one would want to be able to setup z-axis+ {right trigger] to Fire Primary, and z-axis- [left trigger} to Fire Secondary, or some other combination of actions.)
X-rotation: turning
Y-rotation: lookingupanddown

So I went into your setup program and selected Input Devices to be “Keyboard and Joystick”.

The first thing I noticed when I started the game and went into the ‘Options’ menu was that the ‘Mouse Setup’ options were still available (they were red and not blue). Also, when in-game, the keyboard ‘U’ button still toggled Mouselook on and off. The effect, by the way, of turning Mouselook on was to change whatever axis was set for ‘moving’ to become looking up and down instead.

After experimenting for a while, I figured out that some axis work fine, while others either partially work, or don’t work at all. Let me explain in more detail:

It is the actions ‘moving’, ‘strafing’, ‘lookingupanddown’, and ‘turning’ that don’t all work properly, not the axes themselves. What I mean by this is that each action performs the same way (whether it works or does not work) no matter which axis you set them to. Here is a list of each action, and what I noticed about each one’s performance. I will comment on whether each action was ‘setable’ (ie. after setting the action to a particular axis, whether or not moving that joystick axis would make Duke perform said action), and whether the ‘scaling’ option/adjustment worked for each action:

moving: works perfectly… is both setable, and scaleable.

strafing: is settable, but the scaling adjustment has no effect. The scaling adjustment seems to be set at it’s maximum positive value.

lookingupanddown: is not setable… therefore I cannot comment on it’s scaling adjustment.

turning: works perfectly… is both setable, and scaleable.

----------

Here is Jonathon's reply:


Hi Rob,

The problem with the way Duke (and Shadow Warrior) uses controller axes
is precisely how you've described it. I've got an item on my to-do list
to fix this so that you can set up a joystick how you'd expect it to
behave, but it's not quite so simple to do because the way Build games
handle their inputs makes for high potential of screwing things up. It's
mainly because the input structures in the games only handle three axes
of movement, and strafing and pitching are basically hacks on how the
axes are interpreted. Adding the extra axis and rewiring things to use
them correctly means lots of fiddly stuff in the network and input code.
I'll sort it all out sooner or later.

Jonathon

----------

I hope this helps George. If I can be of any more assistance please let me know.

worsel
10-01-2008, 12:07 PM
Sorry for the double post, but no one has replied, and I thought of more to say.

George,

I didn't summarise what my findings, and Jonathon's reply, meant to me, because I wasn't sure if it would be of any help. But I've decided it couldn't hurt. So here goes.

I think it is safe to say that what I found out about how the 4 actions 'MOVING', 'STRAFING', 'LOOKINGUPANDDOWN', and 'TURNING' work in Jonathon's port, are indeed the way the original Duke3D was set-up. I do not believe he changed any of the original code. I think that he simply made the original Joystick functions operate in his port, and added items in his 'OPTIONS' menus. I will explain why I believe this.

As you can see from my findings, both the actions of 'MOVING' and 'TURNING' are analog and work perfectly (I said they were setable and scaleable... what I meant was that they work in an analog manner, and that the scaling/sensitivity adjustments worked fine). The action of 'STRAFING' can be set to a Joystick axis, but it does not act in an analog manner... when you move the Joystick, Duke strafes at full speed, and you can not adjust this fact with the scaling setting: Strafing appears to be digital. The action of 'LOOKINGUPANDDOWN' could not be bound to a Joystick axis at all.

Here is my explanation for these findings. In the old days, alot of people used Joysticks for gaming, but they used them incorrectly... the x-axis was for turning, and the y-axis was for moving forwards and backwards; thus the reason those two actions are analog in the original Duke3D. Strafing was set to a POV hat (like a D-Pad); thus the reason it appears to have only digital support. Looking up and down (if used at all) was also set to the POV hat. I suspect in Duke3D it was not even supported on the Joystick, thus the reason I could not bind it in Jonathon's port. This original use of a Joystick was an incredibly difficult, clumsy way to move around and look. It is for this reason that people got frustrated and came up with the Keyboard and Mouse method. Since the Keyboard is only digital, but works much better than the way people originally used Joysticks, the gaming world abandonned analog movement... very sad. There were only a small population of people who figured out the correct way to use a Joystick, and that movement was pioneered by Madcatz when they invented the PantherXL Joystick/Trackball combination. It was setup similar to the way we now use modern Gamepads: the Joystick was used for Moving and Strafing, while the Trackball was used just like you use a mouse. Here is a picture of it in case you're curious:

http://www.stevehailer.com/wiki/index.php?title=USB_Panther_Mods

I, and many others, still to this day, use a Joystick and Trackball for gaming. Most of us, myself included, use a CH Products Fighterstick USB Joystick, and a Kensington 'Expert Mouse' Optical Trackball. Unfortunately, we rarely get analog support for our joysticks anymore, and have to configure them for digital, 2-speed movement, instead.

Now that Joysticks are back, in the form of Console Gamepads, analog movement can once again be used, and this time used properly. But most of us have forgotten about analog movement, and even more of us have never even used it. Now, perhaps, you can all see the root of my frustration, and sadness.

I think my findings on movement and aiming in Jonathon's port, show that the original Duke3D did in fact have analog movement built in... at least for moving backwards and forwards, and turning. Honestly, I do not remember how my Joystick used to act with strafing... it was too long ago, but I've always thought it used to be analog... maybe not. I remember when setting up the PantherXL Joystick in the Duke3D 'SETUP.EXE' config program, you had to type in the name of an external file that came on a diskette with the Joystick. I believe this file was what made the Trackball operate correctly as the mouse for 'TURNING' and 'LOOKINGUPANDDOWN', as well as setting the Joystick axes for 'MOVING' and 'STRAFING'.

There are actually two major Windows ports of Duke3D... the JonoF port (by Jonathon Fowler), and the Rancidmeat port (by David Koenig). In case it is of any help to figure out how to fix all this, David Koenig implemented and fixed all Joystick support issues in his port. Here is a link to the Rancidmeat website:

http://www.rancidmeat.com/

In summary, analog 'MOVING' already exists. All that needs to be done is to make 'STRAFING' analog.

I hope all of this helps, George. Please let me know how else I can help.
:)

TerminX
10-01-2008, 01:04 PM
There are actually two major Windows ports of Duke3D... the JonoF port (by Jonathon Fowler), and the Rancidmeat port (by David Koenig).
That's only true if you choose to ignore anything that has been released in the past 3 years or so, which was the last time either of those projects was updated. Fortunately, the world of Duke3D source ports has moved on since then (http://eduke32.com), but, however, joystick/gamepad support hasn't really gone anywhere yet. I might actually have a go at fixing things relating to it sometime in the near future.

Some of the stuff JonoF mentioned has been done since then (e.g. joystick and mouse input are no longer separate and exclusive), but I think the strafing issue is still there along with a few other nuisances. A quick look at the related code seems to show that analog strafing is actually in there, but there may be some kinks with it that need working out. You still interested in the PC version of the game? I have a PS3 Sixaxis controller I plug in from time to time, but I might be inclined to really put some effort into gamepad support if people are actually going to use it.

worsel
10-01-2008, 01:38 PM
TerminX,

Wow, really sorry... I didn't realise EDuke32 was developed and maintained independantly to JFDuke. For some reason I thought EDuke32 was only updated whenever JFDuke was updated... my apologies to you, and anyone else involved.

I am very much interested in the PC version... HD packs, Polymost, user maps, 3rd party expansions... Shadow Warrior...

I think Gamepad support would be incredible. To be perfectly honest and selfish, the group of gamers that I find myself part of would mostly just be interested in analog moving and strafing to bind to our Joystick X and Y axes. But if you went all the way with analog gamepad support... even better.


Just a quick recap I wrote that sums it up quite clearly:

When the original Duke3D was made, the Joystick was intended to be used without a mouse... just the Joystick and the Keyboard. Here is how I believe 3DRealms intended users to set-up their joysticks:

Y-axis: Analog support for 'MOVING'.
X-axis: Analog support for 'TURNING'.
POV Hat, or any other opposed buttons: Digital support for 'STRAFING'.
There was no Joystick support for 'LOOKINGUPANDDOWN'... thus one of the reasons for auto-aim, or the fact that the program would score a hit as long as you were lined up horizontally on a target... you didn't need to be lined up vertically as well.

In modern day gaming, people will either use a Gamepad, or, a Joystick along with a Mouse or Trackball (my personal preference).

If using a Gamepad:
The left joystick is for moving, while the right joystick is for aiming. This is the norm, but some people reverse it so the right is for moving, and the left is for aiming. The point is that the combination of 'MOVING' and 'STRAFING' is set to one of the joysticks, while 'LOOKINGUPANDDOWN' and 'TURNING' is set to the other.

If using a Joystick along with a Mouse or Trackball:

Joystick Y-axis: Analog support for 'MOVING'.
Joystick X-axis: Analog support for 'STRAFING'.
The Trackball, or Mouse, is used for Mouse-Aiming.

:D

Laokin
10-14-2008, 12:47 PM
This is really a non issue as no program code had to be rewritten to take the "Run" Button out. Xbox 360 has a controller plug in that lets you independently set things like dead zones and double functions, it's not the program code that does this sort of thing.

More or less, boot Duke3D with an xbox 360 controller hooked up with a program like Pinnacle Game Profiler. Set the dead zones for your left analog, set 95% to walk and 100% to run. Simple, not true analog speed (i.e. duke still only has 2 speeds), but running without pressing a button.

Flash to xbox360, like I said it has a build in controller plugin in the SDK that devs use to build games for the 360. It has the EXACT same feature, 3DR programmers either didn't think of it, over looked it, or just simply didn't even check.

No Excuse