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View Poll Results: Should DNF come with a editor?
YES, I want to be able to make my own Duke levels even if it takes longer for 3DR to finish. 148 77.89%
NO, I just want the Duke asap and a level editor is not that important to me. 42 22.11%
Voters: 190. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 11-28-2007, 02:48 PM   #41
dssherm
Re: DNF editor important to you?
Of course I want to be able to create my own levels. Not including the level editor would be very disappointing. But, I don't understand why you think including the editor might delay the game. Isn't the editor they would release the same one that is being used to build the levels now? How could that cause a delay? As is said above, I can wait for the SDK but the level editor should be included from the start.
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Old 11-28-2007, 03:03 PM   #42
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
I would very much like the level editor and all the other tools released with the retail version of the game. I don't think it'll delay the release of DNF because the tools/editor already exist or there would be no way to make the game levels to begin with. On the other hand, if the game content takes up all the room on the release cd's/dvd's it might preclude the editor tools from being released at the same time as the game.
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Old 11-28-2007, 04:04 PM   #43
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
As long as it's not a "Random Map-Generator" I want it to be included from the start. It was the ability to create maps from the get-go in Duke3D that made the package complete, a DNF without it, well, that would sorta' be a letdown, wouldn't it?
 
Old 11-28-2007, 04:13 PM   #44
marcchello
Re: DNF editor important to you?
on this one with hangnail but they only have to release it on a DL DVD and the issue of space is gone if there is an issue at all
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Old 11-28-2007, 05:14 PM   #45
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
the logic in asking this question is simple. it is clear that alot of people would like to be able to mod DNF. also it sparks a bit of conversation.

the editor that comes with the crytek game is superb despite the bugs. the ability to modify their levels and add more targets and whatnot will add alot of lifespan to the game. also it is a excellent way to learn about the creation of of a playable level with all the extras. if DNF is like this on release then as you can see we will be happy.

So with this I see the perfect time to ask the real question, will DNF come with a lvl editor and if so will we be able to mod the default levels.

Thank you for your time.
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Old 11-28-2007, 05:44 PM   #46
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
Definitely would like to see an editor - Duke3d was the first game I tried making maps for...
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Old 11-28-2007, 06:08 PM   #47
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Siegler View Post
This is kind of a silly question. I don't see how the inclusion of the level editor would delay the release of the game at all.

Honestly - please explain the logic to me here, because I do not see it.
It might delay, but it's great if DNF isn't affected. This is merely a speculative question, are people willing to wait more to get level editor. There are no silly questions

There have been times where level editors come after the game release. Nowdays that seems to have been left to the past, but SDK usually follow a bit after the release.
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Old 11-28-2007, 09:08 PM   #48
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
I just hope 3DR thinks up a way to make Duke editing as easily accessible to the common user as DN3D was. Yes it didn't look as good, but you actually didn't need a single piece of 3rd party software to alter DN3D. If only that were possible now, but sadly everything these days demands us to have Maya or 3DS.

In any event, half of what made Duke3D so great was the modding. Duke3D broke new ground with ease of editing and the mods are STILL helping keep the game alive even to this day. DN4E wouldn't be complete without it.
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Old 11-28-2007, 10:27 PM   #49
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
well said! It would be the best game ever if they have a good editor that is easy to use. I often wonder if there will be as many levels as d3d.
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:41 PM   #50
Kalki

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Re: DNF editor important to you?
The editor could never delay the game because nobody would let it. It would at most get pushed to a later update.

I might want to play around with DET (and not release anything) - ok that sounded dirty - but mostly I don't want people to bitch about the lack of it at shipping.
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Old 11-29-2007, 10:45 AM   #51
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wayskobfssae View Post
I just hope 3DR thinks up a way to make Duke editing as easily accessible to the common user as DN3D was. Yes it didn't look as good, but you actually didn't need a single piece of 3rd party software to alter DN3D. If only that were possible now, but sadly everything these days demands us to have Maya or 3DS.

In any event, half of what made Duke3D so great was the modding. Duke3D broke new ground with ease of editing and the mods are STILL helping keep the game alive even to this day. DN4E wouldn't be complete without it.
Neither of those are _needed_ in levelediting. They are usefull, if you already are competent with the editor and wan't to take it further, let's say to a mod. But that would mean that you need SDK too.

There are free alternatives, as XSI ModTool and Blender. Both of which work great. And if you are that more serious about it, there are student discounts on numerous softwares available.
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Old 11-29-2007, 05:54 PM   #52
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
I do get his point though. At least in Unreal Tech 2 based engines, a lot of the scenery has a lot of imported objects to supplement the scenery and make the place look more detailed. Not many maps these days are constructed out of simple primitives. It kind of means if you want a look that isn't in line with the game, you seem to need an external editor.

Still, if a decent model exporter is created for something like Blender, that's not much of a problem.
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:34 PM   #53
Joe Siegler
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by peoplessi View Post
It might delay, but it's great if DNF isn't affected. This is merely a speculative question, are people willing to wait more to get level editor. There are no silly questions

There have been times where level editors come after the game release. Nowdays that seems to have been left to the past, but SDK usually follow a bit after the release.
Why is this even a question? We've said years ago we'd be including our level editor with the game. This is seriously old news. I mean REALLY old. It's the whole reason there's an UnrealEd area on these forums. We put that there so people could "practice" and be used to it when DukeEd (or whatever the heck it ends up being called) is released.

I genuinely don't understand this thread - I realy don't.

Please don't ask me about tools beyond the level editor. I don't know, and besides George would kill me if I started trying to offer info like that.
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Old 11-29-2007, 11:48 PM   #54
Kalki

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Re: DNF editor important to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Siegler View Post
We put that there so people could "practice" and be used to it when DukeEd (or whatever the heck it ends up being called) is released.
I'm still fond of "Duke's Enormous Tool" although some might make bloated(swollen?) jokes about the editor. But the innuendo inherent when talking about it makes for a unique name.
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Old 11-30-2007, 09:55 AM   #55
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Siegler View Post
Why is this even a question? We've said years ago we'd be including our level editor with the game. This is seriously old news. I mean REALLY old. It's the whole reason there's an UnrealEd area on these forums. We put that there so people could "practice" and be used to it when DukeEd (or whatever the heck it ends up being called) is released.

I genuinely don't understand this thread - I realy don't.

Please don't ask me about tools beyond the level editor. I don't know, and besides George would kill me if I started trying to offer info like that.
We won't, as we know you couldn't answer even if you wanted to But, yeah, I remember that such things have been said in the past, but then again this is just a harmless thread to discuss the issue.

BUT there is one thing you could possibly maybe answer, first checking it with Mr. Broussard, will the editor be the same that 3D Realms has used in making of DNF? Very likely it is, but would you guys there at the eagle's nest care to confirm this tiny tidbit

DukeED sounds nice, but in the end that doesn't really matter that much.
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Old 11-30-2007, 10:51 AM   #56
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
I would definitely rather wait a little longer and have the editor, but then I'm on a Mac so might have to wait extra for the game anyway =)
Although with UT3 developing fairly well for cross-platform it's possible 3DR has access to some of the Mac code as well. If not I'll be getting a new shiny Intel-based Mac anyway so would just boot under Windows or run with Parallels if I have to.

I mean, I just got back into Duke Nukem 3D editing to find that none of the Mac tools I used to use work anymore, and Windows emulation on my current comp is pants, so I'm actually thinking of just writing some new/equivalent tools in Java. I can't be the only one stuck without editart/kextract =)
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Old 11-30-2007, 12:29 PM   #57
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by peoplessi View Post
BUT there is one thing you could possibly maybe answer, first checking it with Mr. Broussard, will the editor be the same that 3D Realms has used in making of DNF? Very likely it is, but would you guys there at the eagle's nest care to confirm this tiny tidbit
Im not George, but I can answer that anyway. You can be 99.9% sure its the same editor. And that will be an enhanced/modified version of Unreals dito.

I dont really understand why you even think there would exist another editor for DNF?
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Old 11-30-2007, 12:34 PM   #58
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
It is very likely you didn't understand the question, devs might use slightly different editor, than what the endusers will face. Possibility, not likely, but it is there. So I suggest you try to digest that.
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Old 11-30-2007, 12:39 PM   #59
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wayskobfssae View Post
I just hope 3DR thinks up a way to make Duke editing as easily accessible to the common user as DN3D was.
Don't count on it. Level editors have gotten a lot more complex and that's not going to change, unfortunately. It's why I don't like building for more recent games, it's all too complicated.
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Old 11-30-2007, 01:00 PM   #60
Joe Siegler
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
Quote:
It is very likely you didn't understand the question, devs might use slightly different editor, than what the endusers will face. Possibility, not likely, but it is there. So I suggest you try to digest that.
This is a non issue. Discuss the original point, not whether one of you understands the question, that's borderline personal attacks, let's keep the discussion where it should be.
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Old 11-30-2007, 01:16 PM   #61
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
I apologize if came out as that, I was clarifying my point, no intentions to go personal.
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Old 11-30-2007, 02:38 PM   #62
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
In some editors I find it not possible to edit the default levels. The Crysis editor lets you fully look at the default levels and you can alter anything you want. The enitire editor is used and it is very interesting to look around a completed level and get to understand everything that went into making the level.
Will DNF one be able to do this? Would anyone want to be able to see how 3DR built DNF levels?
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Old 12-01-2007, 03:37 AM   #63
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
Is Joe even permitted to answer that, without risking getting garroted by George..?
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Old 12-02-2007, 04:15 AM   #64
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalki View Post
I'm still fond of "Duke's Enormous Tool" although some might make bloated(swollen?) jokes about the editor. But the innuendo inherent when talking about it makes for a unique name.
geeze man, Im not sure if any of these Bitchs would want to use it if it were buggy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haravikk View Post
I'm on a Mac so might have to wait extra for the game anyway =)
OS x 4 L!f3

Quote:
Originally Posted by HazMat View Post
In some editors I find it not possible to edit the default levels. The Crysis editor lets you fully look at the default levels and you can alter anything you want. The enitire editor is used and it is very interesting to look around a completed level and get to understand everything that went into making the level.
Will DNF one be able to do this? Would anyone want to be able to see how 3DR built DNF levels?
I personally hope the Editor is as easy as Cube 2 in operation.
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Old 12-02-2007, 06:40 AM   #65
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HazMat View Post
In some editors I find it not possible to edit the default levels. The Crysis editor lets you fully look at the default levels and you can alter anything you want. The enitire editor is used and it is very interesting to look around a completed level and get to understand everything that went into making the level.
Will DNF one be able to do this? Would anyone want to be able to see how 3DR built DNF levels?
You always could do that in unrealed so I would be surprised if they changed that.
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:42 PM   #66
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalki View Post
I'm still fond of "Duke's Enormous Tool" although some might make bloated(swollen?) jokes about the editor. But the innuendo inherent when talking about it makes for a unique name.
I think simply "Duke's Tool" would suffice without being too much of a mouthful

People will love to play with it after downloading Duke's Package and unzipping it.
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Old 12-04-2007, 01:41 AM   #67
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
NASTY!
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Old 12-13-2007, 07:56 PM   #68
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by vcatkiller View Post
I do get his point though. At least in Unreal Tech 2 based engines, a lot of the scenery has a lot of imported objects to supplement the scenery and make the place look more detailed. Not many maps these days are constructed out of simple primitives. It kind of means if you want a look that isn't in line with the game, you seem to need an external editor.
I can even take it a step further and go into DN3D scripting (or the lack of it) in that with nothing besides Build, you could recreate every single map in the whole game with 100% of their functionality. Complex moving floors, lighting effects, destroyable walls, earth quakes, explosion sequences, logic-gate switches, all easily manageable from within build with no programming knowledge needed AT ALL. It was bloody brilliant.
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Old 12-15-2007, 03:18 PM   #69
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
"There are no silly questions"

Just silly people
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Old 12-16-2007, 04:35 AM   #70
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Post Re: DNF editor important to you?
On a completely different note...

Though I am in full support of the editor being released with the game (full SDK would be nice ). I can't help but wonder if this really means anything anymore. When you go back to the Q3/HL generation things were different. When someone released a new game there was user generated content (maps/mods) weeks or days later. These days that gap has grown larger and larger. Now mods that would have been on the swords edge but somehow ended up being finished now have zero chance of reaching completion. I can say that I am happy and even proud to have seen those days but they are pretty much gone.

Perhaps it is time to take a step back and realize that new measures need to be taken if something like this is to flourish again. We have wikis and social networking and maybe these are the models that future game hobbiest (yes, I know that sounds pejorative) need to follow.

Maybe we could get lucky and someone like 3DR could succeed where others (say Valve) pretty much dropped the community driven content ball for the last generation.

Granted I am being particularly cruel to Valve's support forums (they and a few others can be particularly awesome), but I think a new whole model is necessary; something with a more granular approach where 100 guys can work on 100 different textures (think Hot or Not; though I really don't want to think about shaders or whatever you crazy kids call them these days) and 30 or 40 guys can spend their part-time hours on modeling (all interchanged with some license that is quite nice to everyone). The architecture is there but no one has sat down and made it digestible (or tolerable) for everyone.

NOTE: If I'm wrong here I would love to see examples. I've been away from the scene for a while.
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Old 12-16-2007, 11:04 AM   #71
wayskobfssae

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Re: DNF editor important to you?
I think you're right. Looking for help with game modding projects is a nightmare. You'll easily find yourself spreading yourself across ten forums trying to build up a team. Potential developers are scattered everywhere. It would certainly be nice if for once everybody hung out in one place.
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Old 12-16-2007, 04:25 PM   #72
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
If User Content is not flooding though the Net, I think we should have a MOD completion, with cake!
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Old 12-16-2007, 06:54 PM   #73
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
Oblig.

But the cake is a lie.

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Old 12-16-2007, 07:10 PM   #74
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
I have had some of my stuff stolen from me by would be mod buddies in the past. stuff like maps and bases. i ask for help and the first ones to say yes are looking for stuff that they need. This sort of shit happens and it sux. maybe wont happen in here much. lets hope 3dr get a great mod community and heres to the guys that are already here
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Old 12-16-2007, 07:35 PM   #75
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
Aye, I've run into similar problems sadly. Same goes for exchange of assistance. I did weapon models for somebody and asked for some level design work in return (base exterior) and he never got back to me on it and in fact later said he didn't have the time. A year later, the sequel to his project is in the works and he's back to asking me for more weapon models.
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Old 12-16-2007, 07:58 PM   #76
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
I dont mind if they like my base and want to use it but they should give credit where it is due. I seen some of my stuff in a screenshot he put up and was like, hey thats my hallway from my base. I think this particular one will give me credit tho but not sure.
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Old 12-18-2007, 10:20 PM   #77
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
The editor is required for longevity, the mod community is what keeps games alive the most, so i say if it takes longer, put in an editor, it will be worth it.
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Old 01-22-2008, 06:28 AM   #78
H0mercidal
Re: DNF editor important to you?
I hope they include an editor in DNF!! That would be soo cool. Someone tell George they need to do that!!








j/k Joe! I dont' have time to edit levels like I'd like, but I do have a couple of ideas that might fit into someone else's work. Can't wait to see the cutoms maps everyone will be making!!
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Old 01-22-2008, 08:09 AM   #79
Firstperson
Re: DNF editor important to you?
Considering how successful DN3D was, it would be a given about the level editor. My concern is ease of use. I get frustrated with level editors, now-a-days, that near REQUIRE you to know C+ or eqivilent languages in order to write scrips to make some thing "do this" or "that" in a level. I never had a problem with the creativity part. I guess it's a gripe more than anything else, but when I took programming YEARS ago, I had trouble with it and regurgitating script lines doesn't really teach you anything either.
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Old 01-22-2008, 08:47 AM   #80
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Re: DNF editor important to you?
It's always nice to have a editor with the game.

but for me it isnt all that important.

I made alot of simple levels in build, but mainly because its was so damn simple, hit space four times and, *blam*, let there be room.

You could create levels for mp in just hours, even if it looked like sh*t - but it was still a simple thing to correct afterwards.

Nowadays you need to spend weeks just learning the damn thing with gazililions of tiny variables, shaders, importing custom geometry, scripting and whatnot.

I just dont have the patience or time to do that.
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