Somebody is violating OUR copyright for a change!

[Parkar]

Joe has ben notified by terminX.

Kev_Hectic said:
I wonder if anyone from the Doom retexturing project knows about this game yet? Or if any of the iD, Epic, or Raven guys do for that matter...

Funnily enough I actually got the link from the ZDoom forums - http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?t=5599

[Killd a ton]

Hmm not to defen them or any thing.

Did they make a simple reflektion/transparency on the water?

[jimbob]

lets sue em for an ridiculous amount off money, i can use a new computer

[IHerman]

I don't think it's the Build engine. Some floors have reflections.

I really like to know what ID and 3DR are going to do about this. I hope 4Pocket or whatever get their asses sued.

Whose property are the textures anyway? The 3DR textures were posted on the forum, so technically speaking I believe they're property of 3DR. What about the Doom textures?

Technically speaking you have no idea how copyright works.

[Hudson]

Swiss Cheeseman said:
Technically speaking you have no idea how copyright works.

Well considering the forum rules state that anything posted on the forums can/will become property of 3DR..

Granted IIRC 3DR added that rule to prevent someone from trying to cash in on a feature in a game of theirs if someone decided to say "BUT I THOUGHT OF THAT!!1!", however if they really wanted to they probably could claim rights.

[jimbob]

but what if the file is hosted on a different site, then shown here, not uploaded. the faq says that anything uploaded here is copyrighted and most files in the 3dr highres thing are not actually uploaded here

[NeoN]

Yep. Sue them.
But to think of it.. how stupid is it for a big company (partnership maybe) to steal other company's graphics/copyrighted material??? I mean... they probably havent consulted any lawyers if that is ok to use someone's copyrighted material WITHOUT the original owner's permission or knowing... It is so stupid! And whats more interesting is that they announced the game for everyone to hear/know..

[Hudson]

jimbob said:
but what if the file is hosted on a different site, then shown here, not uploaded. the faq says that anything uploaded here is copyrighted and most files in the 3dr highres thing are not actually uploaded here

This is true, in this case I honestly don't know what the deal is.

Regardless this really sucks. Weider is going to be pissed.

IHerman said:
I don't think it's the Build engine. Some floors have reflections.

Build does floor reflections as well, was in SW, and in LameDuke. If they ripped it from the Duke3D source code, it shouldn't be too hard to put it back in there once you grasp the basics of wall mirrors. The concept is the same.

[kaotic_oz]

Wtf is wrong with these people not even asking to have it first and taking it from multiple companies how stupid can you be!

[Kristian Joensen]

Hudson said:

Well considering the forum rules state that anything posted on the forums can/will become property of 3DR..

Granted IIRC 3DR added that rule to prevent someone from trying to cash in on a feature in a game of theirs if someone decided to say "BUT I THOUGHT OF THAT!!1!", however if they really wanted to they probably could claim rights.

No 3DR doesn't get the copyrigth on things posted here, they just get certain rigths, the copyrigth holder doesn't loose any rigths at all.

[Rider]

Kristian Joensen said:

No 3DR doesn't get the copyrigth on things posted here, they just get certain rigths, the copyrigth holder doesn't loose any rigths at all.

wich in this case doesn't really matter as those people just ripped off work from the retexture project, and official work from 3DR/etc.

Make them cry guys

[AlgorithMan]

if you don't publish your work under any license you still have the copyright because you made it and so it's your interlectual property... they have no right to use the textures without permission PLUS the nuke barrel is clearly from the duke3d original grp, which has an explicit copyright - they weren't even allowed to use it even if the game was free

i guess they just didn't think anyone would recognize this copyright violation...

[Blade Nightflame]

IHerman said:
I don't think it's the Build engine. Some floors have reflections.

Build engine, SW had floor reflections. Being based of the same engine as Duke3d.

[AlgorithMan]

btw look at the duke user map "halflife" it has transparent water (I think I know how the author did that trick ) and working ladders (did working ladders myself some time ago...)
cya

AlgoMan

[Killd a ton]

IHerman said:
I don't think it's the Build engine. Some floors have reflections.

Dosen't look more reflecktion like the a strange error im having on a 9700 radion :P

[December Man]

Oh man, they're dead meat or not?

jimbob said:
lets sue em for an ridiculous amount off money, i can use a new computer

LoL

[Iggy]

I've just e-mailed Epic Games about this. Hopefully these so called "developers" will get what they deserve.

[Chip]

"Bomb the bastards" is what my dad would say.

[Killd a ton]

Mailed Activision about the ID material used in the game.

[jimbob]

Killd a ton said:
Mailed Activision about the ID material used in the game.

why not mail ID directly?

[Killd a ton]

It basicaly imposible to find there mail, weal atleas i couldn't activision is set as the ppl to contact about the games that 4pocketpc copyed stuff from at id's web page.

[Iggy]

Killd a ton said:
It basicaly imposible to find there mail, weal atleas i couldn't activision is set as the ppl to contact about the games that 4pocketpc copyed stuff from at id's web page.

Correct, I also couldn't find any mailaddresses of iD when I found a site with illegal pictures of the leaked out Doom3-version. (This was after the E3). I sended Activision an e-mail and I never saw the site again a week after sending it.

[Krid]

AlgorithMan said:
if you don't publish your work under any license you still have the copyright because you made it and so it's your interlectual property... they have no right to use the textures without permission PLUS the nuke barrel is clearly from the duke3d original grp, which has an explicit copyright - they weren't even allowed to use it even if the game was free

i guess they just didn't think anyone would recognize this copyright violation...

If you don't have a license to what you are using, then what you are using is unlicensed. This is why people who violate the GPL "because it's an 'illegal license'" are dumb as bricks - either way it would mean that they don't have a valid license to the code they're using, and are therefore guilty of some very harsh IP violations.

3DR does NOT own what you post here, but they do get certain rights to it. This one reason for this is because it would be stupid of them to let people post on these forums, then sue them for publishing the post on the forums. Another example of fair use would be displaying pictures posted here on the front page to show-off the revamp.

I'd like to note that all materials are copyright of the original author, provided they are not work for hire.

I would also like to note that I Am Not A Lawyer.

[Water12356]

Parkir already said what I was going to say.

[WarHammer]

I have to chuckle a bit at the irony that most of those stolen textures were likely drawn with a pirated copy of Photoshop.

Honestly, can anyone here boast of being completely warez and illegal ROMs and MP3s free? People tend to be selectively lawful at times.

[TerminX]

WarHammer said:
I have to chuckle a bit at the irony that most of those stolen textures were likely drawn with a pirated copy of Photoshop.

Honestly, can anyone here boast of being completely warez and illegal ROMs and MP3s free? People tend to be selectively lawful at times.

You don't see me trying to sell mp3s I've downloaded, do you?

No, you don't. Your point is invalid.

[mental stampede]

Terminx has a wonderful gift of cutting through the BS. I was just trying to word something to that effect.

[mmway]

WarHammer said:
I have to chuckle a bit at the irony that most of those stolen textures were likely drawn with a pirated copy of Photoshop.

Yet, nobody tried to sell these textures. Obviously the aforementioned game contains stolen property, but can you prove that the artists actually have pirated versions of Photoshop?

[BloodShed]

WarHammer said:
I have to chuckle a bit at the irony that most of those stolen textures were likely drawn with a pirated copy of Photoshop.

why use photoshop when you use the GIMP or GIMPshop (hacked version of GIMP to look more like photoshop)

[TerminX]

mental stampede said:
Terminx has a wonderful gift of cutting through the BS. I was just trying to word something to that effect.

<Monk> It's a gift.. and a curse! </Monk>

BloodShed said:

why use photoshop when you use the GIMP or GIMPshop (hacked version of GIMP to look more like photoshop)

Not only is the GIMP a viable option, but I guess WarHammer isn't aware that after the student discount, a copy of Photoshop CS only runs you a couple hundred bucks. A lot of the people who do textures here are obviously more than a little experienced with Photoshop, so rather than assume they're all thieves I'd think they were possibly art students or, in the case of some, budding professionals.

TerminX said:

<Monk> It's a gift.. and a curse! </Monk>

Not only is the GIMP a viable option, but I guess WarHammer isn't aware that after the student discount, a copy of Photoshop CS only runs you a couple hundred bucks. A lot of the people who do textures here are obviously more than a little experienced with Photoshop, so rather than assume they're all thieves I'd think they were possibly art students or, in the case of some, budding professionals.

I got a legal copy from work (we have plenty of unused licenses). In fact, I have the whole adobe suite.

Theres always a slashdotesque-like moron like WarHammer posting in threads whenever someone cries foul over copyright disputes over "free" IP/Software. Get over it already.

[spongeh]

*Same message as ZDoom forums, if anyone is following both threads. I mainly just want to get the word out as much as I can*

Hey there, I'm one of the webmasters of PocketGamer.org-- one of the sites that originally reported on the game, and the largest PPC gaming related site out there.

I've received a few e-mails about this, and have put an update with a link to your folks threads. Personally, when I first saw the game a few textures looked odd, however I always thought the water/acid was in the public domain. Nonetheless, I posted about the release, without any solid evidence against it, especially because they have released games in the past, that as far as I can tell, are original creations. Now, I'm starting to doubt this.

Nonetheless, as if the blatant copyright violations isn't enough, I've updated the news with this info. Having played every damned FPS since Wolf3D, I want to see these guys shut down too. I just feel like an idiot for not recognizing these textures sooner!

Anyway, this definitely isn't the normal of the PPC community. There is a lot of crap, however there are a few companies who really want to deliver good games.

I'm hoping this can be a positive thing: if the code hasn't been butchered too much, and the source can be retreived, we'll have a port of the ACTUAL BUILD engine! This would be amazing for the PPC community, IMO, especially if people can create/release their own GPLed 3D games with it.

Anyway, I DO have a PocketPC. If there are any specific requests, I can try and do what I can. If anyone has any further info, please either give us a visit @ www.pocketgamer.org and post in the comments for the item (no reg. req. I believe) or use the news submission e-mail if anything "official" happens.

[Plagman]

I thought Build had already been ported to PocketPC ?

(Found the thread : http://www.pocketgamer.org/showthread.php?threadid=3963 )

[spongeh]

Plagman said:
I thought Build had already been ported to PocketPC ?

(Found the thread : http://www.pocketgamer.org/showthread.php?threadid=3963 )

I thought this was just a port of Duke3D, not the generic BUILD engine? Or are they both the same thing nowadays? (i.e. could someone take that port and make their own game without requiring Duke3D?) I'm a bit BUILD-stupid ever since the source code release.

[Killd a ton]

The guy from http://www.pocketgamer.org sams like a nice person, i i do belive his is right when he says that this isn't a comon thing for ppc ppl to do.

Duke uses the buld engine so the build engine code is part of the duke code.

The code from red 2112 seams to have been striped more and work better with more ppc and have better support for the controles there for it would be better to uses as basis for a new game the the duke version.

[Krid]

spongeh said:

I thought this was just a port of Duke3D, not the generic BUILD engine? Or are they both the same thing nowadays? (i.e. could someone take that port and make their own game without requiring Duke3D?) I'm a bit BUILD-stupid ever since the source code release.

Doesn't matter. In order for Duke3D to be ported, the BUILD engine must be ported. After that, they could have just played around with the Duke3D code to get it the way they wanted it - rotating the screen 90 degrees, for instance.

By the way, take a look at the picture with the rusty robot and the window - Notice how the window is 'reflected' on the ground? That's a bug that's unique to polymost, which is currently unique to JonoF's port, which is currently GPLed.

This means that they MUST release all source code they wrote under the GPL, or else 3DR can also sue them for the license violation.

[WarHammer]

Swiss Cheeseman said:
Theres always a slashdotesque-like moron like WarHammer posting in threads whenever someone cries foul over copyright disputes over "free" IP/Software. Get over it already.

I was merely stating an observation based purely on an assumption. Piracy is rampant on the internet, Photoshop in particular, therefore it only seems logical that statistically. I was not accusing anyone of anything, just making a generalization.

TerminX said:You don't see me trying to sell mp3s I've downloaded, do you?

No, you don't. Your point is invalid.

What does it matter if you're trying to resell the stolen content or not? It's still theft all the same. What it boils down to is people don't like to see others profit of their labors (understandable). The legality is just the tool by which they fight back.

TerminX said:Not only is the GIMP a viable option, but I guess WarHammer isn't aware that after the student discount, a copy of Photoshop CS only runs you a couple hundred bucks. A lot of the people who do textures here are obviously more than a little experienced with Photoshop, so rather than assume they're all thieves I'd think they were possibly art students or, in the case of some, budding professionals.

I am aware of that. The average age group on most video game related forums is about 12-17 (again, just another generaliztion). Most that age (and some even older) cannot afford even that.