Duke Nukem Manhattan Project on XBLA June 23rd

[WarThrash]

Originally Posted by KO Gilligan

Your avatar says to me: "This is my 5th XBox!"

Not far from the truth. I'm actually on my 4th to this day

I used to replace them with new ones from Walmart by switching the serial number stickers and telling customer service that I had never opened the boxes (had to be really careful peeling off stickers). It worked each time. I got full refunds and new Xbox's. That's what Microsoft gets for trying to jip me 3 times in a row.

[The Dukenator]

Committing fraud, were you?

[WarThrash]

Microsoft sure doesn't mind doing it

[Subliminal Surgeon]

Originally Posted by WarThrash

Microsoft sure doesn't mind doing it

So true.

[Nukkus]

The type "S" was my 13th.

[KO Gilligan]

Originally Posted by Nukkus

The type "S" was my 13th.

That's messed up. Seems like every XBox owner I know has had at least 4 or 5 go bad.

There's a group called the PIRGs (Public Interest Research Group) , they do surveys and studies on behalf of US consumers. The PIRGs are responsible for some of the most sensible recalls and warning labels on problem products.

They have also been known to research console makers for price fixing that has resulted in predatory and unfair practice towards smaller distributors who would like to offer price breaks but would suffer consequence by the manufacturer for selling too cheap.

I think they should survey XBox owners and publish the average number of replacements they've had to get. Might be a fun console, but it's definitely in the realm of a lemon product.

[Joe Siegler]

A bit off topic, eh?

[WarThrash]

to get back on Manhattan Project:

Is there going to be (or is there already?) a walkthrough that specifies where all the Nukes are? I keep missing like one or two every level. Also it'd be nice to know where all the secret areas are.

[fast-1]

I had loads of problems with my Playstation 2.

Yeah they had a watch dog problem, it's a type of consumer rights TV show. They showed the PS3 and Xbox360 had some problems. If you move the Xbox360 when it's on it causes a serious malfunction.

Back on topic, I noticed with Manhattan project, when reviewers review old games they always compare them to new releases, no way.

[Nukkus]

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

A bit off topic, eh?

Sorry sorry! <sets the topic back on it's rails>

Anyway, was there any work at all done to the textures? because to me it looked like everything was a bit more detailed than the pc release.

[Nacho]

Originally Posted by WarThrash

to get back on Manhattan Project:

Is there going to be (or is there already?) a walkthrough that specifies where all the Nukes are? I keep missing like one or two every level. Also it'd be nice to know where all the secret areas are.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/473156-du...n-project/faqs

[KO Gilligan]

Originally Posted by Joe Siegler

A bit off topic, eh?

type "S" happens

hehe

---------- Post added at 09:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 PM ----------

on topic, what the hell is up with those irritating flying robot camera bombs? Seriously, in some places you don't even see them coming.

---------- Post added at 09:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Nacho

http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/473156-du...n-project/faqs

As a noble and virtuous gamer, I relish those moments where I become disoriented (especially after saving and coming back the next day) and go trekking back to the beginning of the level on accident. No walkthroughs for me, thanks.

[WarThrash]

Originally Posted by Nacho

http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/473156-du...n-project/faqs

[crunchy superman]

Originally Posted by KaiserSoze

As for that IGN review, I'd love to see the kid rate some classic Atari 2600 games and then knock them because of graphics, eh Crunchy? These young whipper snappers think it's all about the looks. Sigh.

Indeed. I'll take Demon Attack or Kaboom! over 90% of games these days. Damn kids, get the hell off my lawn!!

That guy was way off base with that review. DNMP was a kickass title - everything a AAA Duke game should have - Action, Attitude and . . . oh yeah . . Availability.

[BubbleZ]

Originally Posted by crunchy superman

Indeed. I'll take Demon Attack or Kaboom! over 90% of games these days. Damn kids, get the hell off my lawn!!

The Game Room is pretty good for playing classic games like those, I think Kaboom! came out this week for it as a matter of fact. Very fun game.

EDIT: I find it sorta weird that there's still only one review for it, like no-one wants to talk about Duke anymore

[Nacho]

Most live titles don't get reviews.

[WarThrash]

Gamespot usually reviews them. They recently did DOOM 2 and they also did Duke 3D but they got nothing for MP at the moment

[Yatta]

While we're on the topic of reviews, I did one myself. Overall I think it was a solid port but the faked widescreen and lack of extras is a bit disappointing. At least the Duke3D XBLA port had bonus content and a timeline/rewind feature. All you get with DNMP is two T-shirt avatars, one gamerpic, and a bunch of uncreative achievements.

---------- Post added at 10:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Nukkus

The XBLA version's widescreen is far superior, it adds more at the sides rather than cropping the top and bottom to fit the screen. Finally getting used to firing with the trigger.

Looks faked to me. Felt cropped and the HUD is stretched.

[WarThrash]

While we're on the topic of reviews, I did one myself. Overall I think it was a solid port but the faked widescreen and lack of extras is a bit disappointing. At least the Duke3D XBLA port had bonus content and a timeline/rewind feature. All you get with DNMP is two T-shirt avatars, one gamerpic, and a bunch of uncreative achievements.

There wasn't much they could do. 3DR didn't develop this game, Sunstorm did. Any extras such as concept art relating to the game might have been in the hands of someone who never worked for 3DR so that probably wasn't available to them.

HD Widescreen was never a resolution for the original game so putting those thin black bars on top/bottom is perfectly fine considering what 3DR had to work with. You forget that there is no actual development team at 3DR, but rather 3 guys who did this port themselves.

[George Broussard]

Yatta,

I don't believe the widescreen was faked. If you have an HD tv you should see more left/right of the screen than you did on a pc. The HUD art might have been stretched, I don't recall that. I do recall that we specifically supported 16:9 aspect ratio.

Extras? what extras? the rewind system wasn't 1) suitable, codewise, for DNMP and 2) DNMP had a nice checkpoint system in there already that was pretty modern. There wasn't much more to add to the game. As it was we added rumble to the controller and die more the things like Time Trial mode than we had to.

We didn't think that the concept gallery in Duke 3D was that big a hit, so we left it out.

re: Achievements...they were kept easy on purpose. It's a $10 XBLA game. How much effort should be required to get 200/200? IMO, simply finishing the game and dedicating 7-8 hours to it should be enough effort

[KareBear]

Originally Posted by George Broussard

Yatta,

I don't believe the widescreen was faked. If you have an HD tv you should see more left/right of the screen than you did on a pc. The HUD art might have been stretched, I don't recall that. I do recall that we specifically supported 16:9 aspect ratio.

Extras? what extras? the rewind system wasn't 1) suitable, codewise, for DNMP and 2) DNMP had a nice checkpoint system in there already that was pretty modern. There wasn't much more to add to the game. As it was we added rumble to the controller and die more the things like Time Trial mode than we had to.

We didn't think that the concept gallery in Duke 3D was that big a hit, so we left it out.

re: Achievements...they were kept easy on purpose. It's a $10 XBLA game. How much effort should be required to get 200/200? IMO, simply finishing the game and dedicating 7-8 hours to it should be enough effort

I really liked the cocept art gallery its cool you still have those.Can you release more old concept art please like for example Prey?

http://img36.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=tcbeast.gif

Do you still have this stuff?

[Yatta]

Thanks for the response.

Originally Posted by George Broussard

Yatta,

I don't believe the widescreen was faked. If you have an HD tv you should see more left/right of the screen than you did on a pc. The HUD art might have been stretched, I don't recall that. I do recall that we specifically supported 16:9 aspect ratio.

I thought it was faked because of the stretched HUD, but I stand corrected. However, the HUD does appear stretched to me.

Extras? what extras? the rewind system wasn't 1) suitable, codewise, for DNMP and 2) DNMP had a nice checkpoint system in there already that was pretty modern. There wasn't much more to add to the game. As it was we added rumble to the controller and die more the things like Time Trial mode than we had to.

I only meant to use the rewind feature as an example, not necessarily something that'd be applicable to DNMP. The checkpoint system is indeed great and the Time Trial mode is a great bonus as well.

We didn't think that the concept gallery in Duke 3D was that big a hit, so we left it out.

Does that mean DNMP had concept art that was left out? That'd have been cool to see.

re: Achievements...they were kept easy on purpose. It's a $10 XBLA game. How much effort should be required to get 200/200? IMO, simply finishing the game and dedicating 7-8 hours to it should be enough effort

Yeah but the Duke3D XBLA achievements felt more creative in comparison.


P.S. I updated my review to include a mention of the rumble, Time Trial, and support for 16:9.

[WarThrash]

yea concept art was something I enjoyed from Duke 3D as well. I assumed there was none at hand, but if there really is it'd be interesting to see. Not gonna break any legs over it, but having some is always nice.

re: Achievements...they were kept easy on purpose. It's a $10 XBLA game. How much effort should be required to get 200/200? IMO, simply finishing the game and dedicating 7-8 hours to it should be enough effort

Also, this is a good thing for me. In an arcade style game that really only gives you 200 points total, I really don't want any achievements that are too time consuming. The ones on Duke 3D were fine but killing 500 people online just to get a full 200/200 didn't seem all too worth it. Luckily the MP on Duke 3D was actually fun otherwise I may not have taken the time to actually get it.

[Steve]

I enjoyed the art that came with 360 version of Duke3d. Still remember getting a shock while browsing it

[Micki!]

I do remember seeing some few pieces of DN:MP concept art, but if there was more than that, i'd have loved to see it ..!
Seeing what the game artists had in mind, and just generally what the games original foundations look like are some of the coolest extras i know of...

It's one of the reasons why i go for a games Collectors Editions for a game in the first place, just to check the selected concept art for the game... Prey had some pretty sweet stuff, weapons and enemy designs that gradually changed over time until the final version that was used in the game, it gives you so much more of an insight-view, of how the game shaped up until it ended up looking like it does in the end... Especially removed characters, locations or previous model designs are interesting to look at, more so if there are notes tagged along with them...

I love game art, i'd love to see more of that from any Duke game to be honest, to see how well the developers captured the essence of the character and style, or how far off they were, before they set things right later on... Cool stuff like that are treats for fans...

[Bryan3DR]

Originally Posted by Nacho

http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/473156-du...n-project/faqs

I was on that page EVERY day during the last couple weeks of testing. It had been years since I did it all and there was not any way for me to remember where all the nukes were. Of course I only finished with ALL the nukes one time.

[WarThrash]

On the chance that George come back to this thread, is there any particular reason this isn't on Playstation Network? It's not really a big deal but I just prefer sidescrollers on the PS. Was it just programming difficulties or what? I don't really know anything about how game ports are done, but from what I hear it's a bit more difficult to do on the Playstation.

[The Dukenator]

Nobody gives a f*ck about PSN. Even Croteam said games on PSN isn't worth it.

[WarThrash]

Wrong, you are.

[Nacho]

Anyone ever beat that extra boss thing? Was it even real or was it just fake? I've seen a video of someone getting to it but never beating it... wanted to know if their was something special after it.

On the subject of concept art, I am ALWAYS fascninated on cut content when it comes to video games, pretty much the creative process in general. I loved Uncharted for this reason, so much behind the scenes stuff it blows me away. It would be cool if we saw any of it, if it does exist

[Kalki]

Originally Posted by Nacho

On the subject of concept art, I am ALWAYS fascninated on cut content when it comes to video games, pretty much the creative process in general.

http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28359
http://www.marshalls-art.com/pages/p...reattures7.htm

[KO Gilligan]

Originally Posted by Kalki

http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showthread.php?t=28359
http://www.marshalls-art.com/pages/p...reattures7.htm

You mean we almost had Larry Flynt as Duke Nukem ?

[Dukesnuke]

Don't take any notice of Yatta George, you made the right choice about achivments.

[Yatta]

Originally Posted by Dukesnuke

Don't take any notice of Yatta George, you made the right choice about achivments.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on achievements, but if you look at most successful Xbox Live Arcade games you'll see that only a small percentage of their achievements consist of tasks requiring you to complete levels.

In my opinion, achievements are supposed to be fun and creative. Why only reward the player for something they'd do ANYWAY (IE passing levels) instead of making it a little more interesting (ex. kill 3 pig cops with one pipebomb)?

[Dukesnuke]

Originally Posted by Yatta

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on achievements, but if you look at most successful Xbox Live Arcade games you'll see that only a small percentage of their achievements consist of tasks requiring you to complete levels.

In my opinion, achievements are supposed to be fun and creative. Why only reward the player for something they'd do ANYWAY (IE passing levels) instead of making it a little more interesting (ex. kill 3 pig cops with one pipebomb)?

Why? Because that gets your score up quicker and you can then brag about it.

[Micki!]

Not much to brag of to be honest...
I personally also think that achievements should be there to motivate players to perform special cool tasks...

I mean anyone can perform a simple task as beating a game... And i agree that it's nice to get points as a reward for that alone... But i always saw the ideas behind achievements as a challenge for players, a creative gameplay hint, added by the developers for the player to do something cool that they otherwise may not have thought of, and additionally rewarding them for trying it... And it's also a great reason to replay levels or the entire game, just to beat these certain achievements...

I understand that the reason behind it ending up like it is of course, George himself explained it earlier... That doesn't change the obvious fact that it would be great to have some challenging achievements, and give them more of a reason to replay the game and actually try performing something cool that's worth bragging of, as DukeSnuke puts it...

But yeah, it's not like that, they had a reason for it, and it's acceptable, of course, but that doesn't change that fact (i'm repeating myself) that it would STILL be nice to have had it differently...

Guess i'm saying there's always room to improve things, but there's not always an opportunity for it... It's still a valid thing to bring up and discuss, i think...

[RuskiSnajper.]

Originally Posted by George Broussard

LOL that IGN review is a joke and imo shows the piss poor state of gaming journalism.

Newsflash - DNMP is a retro game, for a budget price on XBLA. Most reviewers are too young and inexperienced to consider such complex concepts such as "context".

You really can't price things lower than 800pts on XBLA anymore, so it is what it is. Seems like the game is a solid 7.5 for the most part and anything below that is just reviewer bias creeping in.

IGN is owned by News Corporation , it isn't weird at all.

I never read ign,gamespot,gametrailers .... it's equivalent of fox news and cnn.



On the other hand, how much did it sell until now?

[Dukesnuke]

Originally Posted by Micki!

Not much to brag of to be honest...
I personally also think that achievements should be there to motivate players to perform special cool tasks...

I mean anyone can perform a simple task as beating a game... And i agree that it's nice to get points as a reward for that alone... But i always saw the ideas behind achievements as a challenge for players, a creative gameplay hint, added by the developers for the player to do something cool that they otherwise may not have thought of, and additionally rewarding them for trying it... And it's also a great reason to replay levels or the entire game, just to beat these certain achievements...

I understand that the reason behind it ending up like it is of course, George himself explained it earlier... That doesn't change the obvious fact that it would be great to have some challenging achievements, and give them more of a reason to replay the game and actually try performing something cool that's worth bragging of, as DukeSnuke puts it...

But yeah, it's not like that, they had a reason for it, and it's acceptable, of course, but that doesn't change that fact (i'm repeating myself) that it would STILL be nice to have had it differently...

Guess i'm saying there's always room to improve things, but there's not always an opportunity for it... It's still a valid thing to bring up and discuss, i think...

No Its not a gameplay hint, those sort of achivments are often nigh on impossible to do for a very small amount of points. So you might as well get the points by doing an easy task that you are going to do anyway.

[Micki!]

The there isn't much to brag about then, is it..?
Bragging rights come from doing things that were challenging but were achieved anyhow...

Hell, anyone can come by and say they beat the game, it's part of playing the game in the first place isn't it..?
Might as well put achievements in there to have other things to try out while you're at it... You're heading for a goal afterall, which is to beat the game, there's nothing wrong with adding few tasks in between and rewarding you from beating them as well...

The hypothetical examples that were made don't necessarily have to be what i had in mind, it could be anything simple... Something ridiculously silly even... Kill a cockroach by stepping on it, or kill one by using 8 pipebombs for an overkill... That's not hard, that's silly, but it's possible... Makes the player try and do things he wouldn't necessarily have thought of while attempting to beat the game...

While were at it, jumping on an enemy till they die would be a neat achievement too, it's possible, try it... Even beating a certain kind of boss within a certain amount of time, that's a neat challenge, a realistic amount of time of course... I think that's better than just beating them as such...

Done is done of course, it's not like they'll change it, and they had a reason too, but that doesn't change how i think achievements should be used in games, that's just my personal opinion of course, some may agree and others disagree, that's a pretty common thing on the internet, now isn't it..? It's not like we need to change each others minds for the greater good or something, it's just a goddamn opinion in the end...

[Damien_Azreal]

Originally Posted by The Dukenator

Nobody gives a f*ck about PSN. Even Croteam said games on PSN isn't worth it.

Wrong.
The publisher, Digital Devolver, made the call not to put the Serious Sam HD games on the PSN. They didn't feel that it would bring in the funding needed to pay for a PS3 port.

Croteam even encouraged the fans to show their desire for the game on PS3.