Blood TC for EDuke32

[Hellbound]

Originally Posted by Tea Monster

I think that using the Build engine for this is silly. If you have the rights to the assets, and you are going to re-make models for sprites, then use the best engine that you can get your hands on. Otherwise, you are porting the game to the same platform.

That's exactly what I think

[Dimebog]

Originally Posted by gt1750

I believe Hudson has contacts and I think you're trying to hide your envy behind sarcasms

But hey, official blessing from Monolith would be nice.

If you say breaking the law is justified because someone claims to have connections with Monolith then I can only tell you that you're being hilarious beyond taste. Because you see, it was not up to Monolith to give blessings or they ever did anything of sorts. It was Infogrames that supposedly issued a license to the qBlood team to use the content. You don't do things based on what someone said or what someone thinks is ok to do further based on some hearsay. You need a license. Not even a 'blessing' would do - especially not from Monolith. Otherwise you would have any monkey on the face of the Earth giving themselves rights to rip the content from BLOOD or Duke3D and making their own mocks of the game and some such abominations. Oh wait, that's already happening - except that 3D Realms actually cares to protect their IP and noone gives a damn if the game is coming from the outside.

[Tea Monster]

The other good thing is that the Transfusion team may have done a lot of the tiresome stuff like coding the behavior of weapons and characters.

Also, apart from the eye-candy, being on a Quake Open-Source port means networking that kicks ass.

The only real down side is making levels. Its very standardized and there are loads of utils out there (I used to like TREAD). But its a pain in the ass compared to BUILD (light leaks and so forth).

[Dimebog]

Originally Posted by Tea Monster

Also, apart from the eye-candy, being on a Quake Open-Source port means networking that kicks ass.

Actually Transfusion has been stagnating because of the fact that the netcode is absolutely useless. It's a bit disencouraging when you focus on the multiplayer aspect of the game and you can't test it properly even on a LAN. On the other hand, you can play BLOOD with your friends directly through DosBox and it feels great, so it's understandable if TF team has little motivation to continue working. What is not understandable, or well, is completely beyond me, why some people can't be bothered with the game anymore and have to invent some ways to downport it, or make some so called 'TCs' that look and perform like turds and most often mix art from other stolen games like Doom - probably in an attempt to kill the last memory of the game that still lives, despite the fact that people like to make jokes behind it's back as if it was truly deceased, and they had no respect for it.

[Tea Monster]

I thought that the networking on the Dark Places engine was pretty good. I've not played it myself though.

If that is the case, there is always the Q3 engine, which is now open source as well. I think there is a 'freeware' version of the Unreal engine that can be used for non-commercial projects.

People want their favorite game to look modern again. They want to play the game with dynamic lighting and other cool eye candy. I'd love to play Blood again.

What I am saying is, that if you are going to go to all the trouble of upgrading the graphics, then do it on a system where you can see it.

[Dimebog]

Originally Posted by Tea Monster

If that is the case, there is always the Q3 engine, which is now open source as well. I think there is a 'freeware' version of the Unreal engine that can be used for non-commercial projects.

That option was discussed and has been overruled because it would arouse many difficulties. I used to think that switching to Q3 engine would be a smart move but some devs who have had more experience with it, showed me otherwise.

Despite the popular belief, BLOOD fans don't care about 'eye candy' at all. Many even refuse to set the resolution anywhere higher than 640x480 or 320x200 even though it's supported. Half of BLOOD's charm was in it's grittiness and moody palette - the 'eye candy' could be attractive to non-fans and people who think that dynamic lightning would actually be an enhancement. Believe it or not, but 99% of the blood community including TF devs believe that one of the greatest downsides of having to use the Darkplaces engine is dynamic lightning because it: a) looks and feels nothing like sector shading; b) screws up the appearance of walls and models because colored lights interfere with the palette.

Shadow Warrior fanbase is bigger than that of BLOOD's, and the game has more modding potential, yet I haven't seen a model pack being developed for SW. BLOOD fans are fewer and far less interested in any of those so called 'enhancements' even the most basic ones (did you know that BLOOD already supports hi-res textures?), so I guess we are doomed to having to witness these projects that seem more like some evil jokes than anything else, and accept them as the peak of the Russian's creative mind. I'd much rather play some decent new add-on or a level pack, but guess what - developing something like that actually requires effort.

[Hudson]

Well you're just a teacup full of sunshine aren't you mate?

[leilei]

Originally Posted by Hudson

Total Conversion. Just a fancy way of saying "mod"

It is not. Back when the term TOTAL CONVERSION was concieved it meant it totally changes everything and not just some gameplay element. Partial conversion did this partially (like just everything but maps usually). Mods aren't a synonym for TCs.

Originally Posted by Hudson

They love Blood and don't mind at all if people use their assets to recreate it. They've told me several times they wished they could create another one.

YES THEY LOVE IT SO MUCH ITS "PUBLIC DOMAIN" ACCORDING TO MY "CONTACTS" not

Originally Posted by gt1750

I believe Hudson has contacts and I think you're trying to hide your envy behind sarcasms

yeah yeah just like all those 'mod teams' that have 'permission' from 'nintendo' to 'remake' their games

Originally Posted by Tea Monster

I think there is a 'freeware' version of the Unreal engine that can be used for non-commercial projects.

It is only usable for personal study for industry. Making projects from it is strictly prohibited and illegal.

Originally Posted by Hudson

Well you're just a teacup full of sunshine aren't you mate?

he holds more truth and sense than anyone else in this thread at this point.

[Hudson]

Originally Posted by leilei

It is not. Back when the term TOTAL CONVERSION was concieved it meant it totally changes everything and not just some gameplay element. Partial conversion did this partially (like just everything but maps usually). Mods aren't a synonym for TCs.

Mods have become the more well known term for describing TC's. I thought this was obvious.

YES THEY LOVE IT SO MUCH ITS "PUBLIC DOMAIN" ACCORDING TO MY "CONTACTS" not

Contact them yourself Of course, you're going to have to be more civil than this infantile display.

They lost the I.P. but hold the rights to the in-game assets such as art, sound, and music.

yeah yeah just like all those 'mod teams' that have 'permission' from 'nintendo' to 'remake' their games

Stellar post there man, it's as if you vomited emoticons. Your maturity truly shines.

he holds more truth and sense than anyone else in this thread at this point.

Not really, he just seems happy insulting and shooting down anyone who is going to try and do anything with the game.

[Dimebog]

Originally Posted by Hudson

They lost the I.P. but hold the rights to the in-game assets such as art, sound, and music.

They didn't loose their IP, it got transfered to Infogrames, and I can offer you a proof for it. Transfusion team never negotiated anything with Monolith in the first place.

Originally Posted by Hudson

Not really, he just seems happy insulting and shooting down anyone who is going to try and do anything with the game.

Dude, you don't have the first clue about 'trying to do something for the game'. This particular game anyway. Those who want to contribute to BLOOD, do so, the rest just talk about it or worse. You are the rest. Next time you feel the urge of lecturing me, just bite your tongue. That way you will actually do something good for the game.

[Hudson]

Originally Posted by Dimebog

They didn't loose their IP, it got transfered to Infogrames, and I can offer you a proof for it.

I know all about the IP being transferred, many years ago I was one of the ones trying desperately to find the source of ownership to see about getting the source code released. You need not to offer proof, because I am well aware that it in fact exists.

Transfusion team never negotiated anything with Monolith in the first place.

Really? Because I specifically remember several forum posts stating that they had full permission from Monolith to use the Blood assets.

The thread was about wondering why they just didn't use the 2D art instead of creating 3D models and saving time in creating a remake. Unless they purge their threads on a regular basis i'm sure it's still on there somewhere.

Afterwards I myself contacted Monolith because I was thinking of creating a "Caleb vs. Duke" mini-mod and wanted to get permission from them to use sprites of Caleb and other enemies and textures from the original Blood, the response I got was that I could use whatever I wanted from the game as long as it was non-profit and they get credit for the assets used. Later I scrapped the idea, however this is how I got permission.

Dude, you don't have the first clue about 'trying to do something for the game'. This particular game anyway. Those who want to contribute to BLOOD, do so, the rest just talk about it or worse. You are the rest. Next time you feel the urge of lecturing me, just bite your tongue. That way you will actually do something good for the game.

Considering Blood was created on the Build engine, and with the incredible additions that Ken S, JonoF, and TerminX have given us with source ports it would make things easier to transfer over and "port" the game to an updated version.

Do something good for the game? Personally I think that encouraging people and giving them motivation to continue their work on projects like these are doing much more good for the game than shooting down their ideas and blasting them with nothing but negative feedback.

It seems like just because you're a moderator for a Blood fansite you have a "holier-than-thou" attitude, maybe you can't see from up there on your pedestal but myself and others can see nothing but good coming from projects like these.

Transfusion failed because it was over-ambitious and they wanted to reinvent the wheel, something along the lines of porting a game to a newer version of it's native engine seems a lot more realistic and feasible.. and with that I applaud anyone who wants to try.

[DeeperThought]

Originally Posted by Dimebog

They didn't loose their IP, it got transfered to Infogrames, and I can offer you a proof for it. Transfusion team never negotiated anything with Monolith in the first place.

So what you're saying is that the personal approval from the artists is irrelevant, because the art is not their IP, it belongs to Infogrames? Just seeking clarification.

[Hudson]

Originally Posted by DeeperThought

So what you're saying is that the personal approval from the artists is irrelevant, because the art is not their IP, it belongs to Infogrames? Just seeking clarification.

Monolith doesn't have the rights to the brand, however they retained ownership of the art, sounds, levels, and other assets that they created.

Much like what happened with F.E.A.R. and Project: Origin.

[Dimebog]

Originally Posted by Hudson

Really? Because I specifically remember several forum posts stating that they had full permission from Monolith to use the Blood assets.

Yes, really. I can show you a scanned copy of the 'permission'.

Originally Posted by Hudson

It seems like just because you're a moderator for a Blood fansite you have a "holier-than-thou" attitude, maybe you can't see from up there on your pedestal but myself and others can see nothing but good coming from projects like these.

Oh wow. Yeah that's my favorite argument. <3 When you're out of ways to thrash someone, call them on being a moderator. You see, I haven't changed my ways and my opinions since a few months ago, when I wasn't a moderator on any fansites. But kudos for noticing. Now if you could also notice a bit further past your behind you would know that most things you're accusing me of don't hold water at all. But since you're just an observer as DT stated a second before editing his post, I guess it's a wasted effort and I don't know why I've been trying to say anything relevant in the first place when it's so much easier to indulge living in ignorance like you. I forgot that this is merely another forum and it's not a place where you would expect to find much reasoning.

[Hudson]

Originally Posted by Dimebog

Oh wow. Yeah that's my favorite argument. <3 When you're out of ways to thrash someone, call them on being a moderator. You see, I haven't changed my ways and my opinions since a few months ago, when I wasn't a moderator on any fansites. But kudos for noticing. Now if you could also notice a bit further past your behind you would know that most things you're accusing me of don't hold water at all. But since you're just an observer as DT stated a second before editing his post, I guess it's a wasted effort and I don't know why I've been trying to say anything relevant in the first place when it's so much easier to indulge living in ignorance like you. I forgot that this is merely another forum and it's not a place where you would expect to find much reasoning.

And that is my favorite excuse for opting out of a discussion because you have nothing worthwhile to post

[leilei]

Originally Posted by Hudson

And that is my favorite excuse for opting out of a discussion because you have nothing worthwhile to post

Like that post itself you just did is any more worthwhile? Can things get any more hypocritical from you?

Did you know!!: when you work for a commercial games company and you make stuff for a game it's no longer your property but it is now material for the copyright holder only? You can't personally own any stake in a game you work for. All those 'contacts' are moot since they can't legally grant 'permission' for a company's copyrighted material therefore your "ego" (LOL I GOT "CONTACTS") is as useful as a bunch of bags on a floor.

[Daedolon]

@Hudson:

Nice try to get people using Blood art and other game data illegally to get them in trouble with Atari.

[Hudson]

Alright, i'll just find the email then.

[eyceguy]

http://www.transfusion-game.com/faq.php

Questions 3 and 4 should put this war to an end

[Hudson]

Yeah, those are who I have talked to and got permission from. Apparently, people don't seem to want to understand this.

[Daedolon]

It's just for the Transfusion project, not for any random Duke modder to use in their mod.

[Damien_Azreal]

Originally Posted by Dimebog

So 'they' really said that they don't mind if anyone ripps off the content from their games? Did 'they' release the content under GPL or just announced it or something? Because.... That's pretty big news and the whole of BLOOD community didn't hear about it. I just heard about it from you.

P.S. Didn't you guys know that they have given permission to everyone to use all the art, sound, and other assets from Duke3D? Yeah. It's true my man, I got some serious connections. It's funny how hursh the staff gets when someone mentions their IP on the forums, but noone cares to protect the IP of other companies.

If you don't believe them... e-mail Monolith yourself. I've had similar discussions with various members of Lith and they (Yes... they, as in employees of Monolith Productions) have stated that fans can use any and all assets from BLOOD for fan based/community projects.

Lith loves it's fans and will do anything that is within their power to help them out.

By loosing the IP means that Monolith can not make any more games under the title BLOOD. But they still own the characters, story, art, music, sound.... everything. The only thing they don't have is the title "BLOOD". As Hud said, extremely similar to the FEAR - Project ORIGIN case now. VUG owns the FEAR title, but Monolith own the characters, settings, art, music and story. Which is why they are able to make PO with Alma without going through VUG.

[Quakis]

Originally Posted by Damien_Azreal

By loosing the IP means that Monolith can not make any more games under the title BLOOD. But they still own the characters, story, art, music, sound.... everything. The only thing they don't have is the title "BLOOD". As Hud said, extremely similar to the FEAR - Project ORIGIN case now. VUG owns the FEAR title, but Monolith own the characters, settings, art, music and story. Which is why they are able to make PO with Alma without going through VUG.

Wait, wait, wait. I'm probably missing something here, but didn't Monolith want to make another BLOOD game? If they own everything other than the title, then what is stopping them? I'm rather confused.

[Damien_Azreal]

What is stopping them? If they went the route they've gone with FEAR/Project ORIGIN.... nothing. Other then they don't want to be forced to use a different title.

Also... Warner Bros. Since WB now owns Monolith Productions WB gets input on all games Lith does. And with Blood 2 not selling well, getting average to low reviews.... chances are they won't get the ability to make another title.

[Quakis]

Originally Posted by Damien_Azreal

Also... Warner Bros. Since WB now owns Monolith Productions WB gets input on all games Lith does. And with Blood 2 not selling well, getting average to low reviews.... chances are they won't get the ability to make another title.

Ah my bad. I completely forgot about that. Sorry for my confusion.

[Hellbound]

Hudson, better find that mail and let people shut up.

[The Commander]

Hudson doesnt have to find the email for me, I beleave him because he has been around alot longer that any of these other people screwing up this thread and high jacking it to know better than to use stuff with out permission. If they say he is allowed to use the art ect for this project because it is not for personal gain, money ect. Ill beleave that.

If not, Ill eat my hat.

[Dimebog]

Originally Posted by Damien_Azreal

If you don't believe them... e-mail Monolith yourself. I've had similar discussions with various members of Lith and they (Yes... they, as in employees of Monolith Productions) have stated that fans can use any and all assets from BLOOD for fan based/community projects.

We tried our luck and emailed them quite recently and we never got our response. It's been a while since Monolith doesn't reply to any BLOOD-related emails and you know that. We didn't even mention the source or anything like that. Anyway that's a quite bold statement. I wouldn't go around posting things like that unless I had something to substantiate my claims. You see, many fans have tried emailing Lith regarding various issues and they never got a single response. So 'they love their fans' may be true, but we have yet to hear anything about it from them directly, and not some hollow connections. What you are saying is a loads of hearsay, I'm sorry to say. Can't wait for another one of you popping up and saying 'I've emailed Monolith, and lulz they told me everyone can use their assets etc'. Guess what - that doesn't work; 99% of bloodites can testify that Lith simply doesn't reply to BLOOD-related emails, period.

Another thing. It looks like some of you have earth-shattering news for the Transfusion team. Go and tell them that they've been living a lie. Infogrames' lawyers were actually high when they compiled this contract:

[kaotic_oz]

YES THEY LOVE IT SO MUCH ITS "PUBLIC DOMAIN" ACCORDING TO MY "CONTACTS" not

Ive E-mailed them myself out of curiosity before (in 2003 if i remember correctly) they openly said I could use the sounds and art so long as it was a non-commercial project.

[Tea Monster]

You know, if you had invested 1/4 as much effort in modeling, texturing and coding as you have in arguing, bitching and flaming, you would be on your second release by now.

[Spiker]

Why don't you use or contribute to existing Blood HRP? At least there is some progress. And it uses Quake engine







It would be nice if someone contributed to it. I like this game very much.

http://www.transfusion-game.com/

[Sang]

o_0 What happened in this thread? I totally don't get why people thought Hudson was lying or something.

[Damien_Azreal]

M210, how's progress?

[Hellbound]

Damn, these models from transfusion suck pretty bad. They are worse even than my ones.

[M210]

Progress yet big, has stopped on detailed studying CON of scripts Here last screenshots

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Further small subtleties:
Instead of atomic health now Life Seed Also gives not +50 and +100 percent of lives,
at a capture появялется an inscription picked up life seed



- Too most with the usual first-aid set which gives +20 instead of +30 percents of health, and at its capture there is an inscription picked up life essence.
It is necessary to change only sprite to heart (yet has not made that first-aid sets worked in original cards Duke)



- All keys too has changed: the red key - a key (eye), a yellow key - a key (fire),
a dark blue key - a key (skull) - has changed prompt in the beginning of game (a screenshot with heart - prompt which advertises GT Interactive)

[Damien_Azreal]

Nice.

I wish you good luck man.... I would help, but lack the know-how. But, if you want anyone to test.... I would be happy to. I damn near know most of the levels to Blood better than I know myself.

[M210]

Perfectly! When we will make the first episode, I will let know But I want it will tell that not soon, I now was completely switched on CON scripts and on the sly I create sprites which are in Blood. When we will make all types of weapon and subjects, we will be engaged in maps. If certainly we will not find sensible mapmakers that it was possible to divide work volume And still I щас in study, for the project it is necessary to give all to much less time (((

[Wellenreiter]

Wow, I'd love to see a Blood port! Keep it up!

M210, I hope you know this? Maybe it will help you, a lot of work already done. It is a pity that icecoldduke abandoned it...

[NightFright]

I have always been wondering why no one wrote a good engine for Blood (or at least added support for it to an existing one). Guess it's due to the fact the source code was released incompletely.
Well, if a total conversion can circumvent that problem, so be it!

BTW I am just playing through the original game with all addons (Plasma Pak & Cryptic Passage) in DosBox. It's nice, but the old engine really sucks!

[IceColdDuke]

Originally Posted by Wellenreiter

Wow, I'd love to see a Blood port! Keep it up!

M210, I hope you know this? Maybe it will help you, a lot of work already done. It is a pity that icecoldduke abandoned it...

I dont think doing a "exact" remake with build and the old assets is a good idea. Building blood on the Quake 3 engine in my opinon would be a better idea, sense Monolith doesn't have a problem with it. The source code that was leaked has old information, and incomplete data structs. It helped a little bit when i was developing that port but not really.

Are you just remaking levels, and plugging in sounds and art, or are you trying to load the old assets into the engine?