Proper Duke3D Roland SC-55 Music Pack (At Last!)

[MusicallyInspired]

No. It's not loopable and it's not what you'd hear from the game back in 1996. I think I remember Mr. Jackson himself saying that that version was a proper full track that he always wanted to make for listening to outside the game and not necessarily in the game. I do think it should be used for grabbag.voc, though. Just make the part that repeats loopable and you've got a high quality version.

[Reckless]

Thanks for sharing the recordings. These tracks demonstrate how much effort was put into music writing [for games] back then!

[MusicallyInspired]

I don't know what's been used for the GRABBAG.VOC file in the NightFright's music pack but I made a version from Lee Jackson's original recording as redbook audio on the Atomic Edition CD and trimmed it to the precise position that the original mono 22khz (8-bit?) GRABBAG.VOC file was trimmed at. If this has already been done than my bad. If it hasn't, it should be used as it's also the way this particular section was meant to be if the sound quality had been better in 1996.

Grabbag VOC - Encoded as Quality 4 OGG (equivalent to 256kbps encoded MP3 or thereabouts)

Also, if this is some kind of infringement and we're not allowed to distribute any whole or part of Lee Jackson's track from the Atomic CD then I'll remove it.

[BuddhaMaster]

Thats a very intersting threat, thanks for all these infos.

But after reading it, it makes me feel like "I have never head Duke Nukem 3d music before !"
I slept in the prehistoric age and missed everything.
This cant be so entirely true..

Because 3D Realms where never that stupid to make the sound only sound right on a Roland SC-55, they clearly had in mind to design this Game for all sort of Midi-Drivers.

The same thing Bobby Prince had to take care of for DooM: More important to make the sound "good" on many machines as possible, instead of creating sound that only sounds awesome on a Roland-SC55 and sucks on everything else.




So can i really expect a complete different experience with that sound ?
The Default Music in HRP v4 (i just dl yesterda and began to play) Is already very good. Because my Soundblaster ZS 2 got a terrible Midi sound...

Has anyone owned and played Duke Nukem 3d ("original") with a Soundblaster AWE 64 ???
Is it just me or was the sound output simply better than a modern Soundblaster ZS 2 ? ...Thats why i never throw it away...
But it cannot possibly be true that an old Card had better sound....

I dont know if it was a bug, but when i used the AWE 64 with a special WDM driver version. The Bass and resulting Sound was just CRAZY GOOD !!

I'm STILL irritated about that

---------- Post added at 09:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 AM ----------

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

It's true to the original MIDIs because they're being played back unedited (besides the accompanying doubled FM and GUS channels that I deleted) on the sound module it was meant to be heard on. For example this is what I hear when I play Duke3D in DOS on my old 486 and select Sound Canvas in the setup program for music output.

I just want to be sure everyone knows that I didn't mix this, choose any new instruments, or write it myself. These are the original MIDIs on the original sound module that was the best possible way you could experience the soundtrack if one had a Sound Canvas back in 1996 while playing Duke3D in DOS. It doesn't really take that long to record them. I just didn't have enough time to do it. All you have to do is open the MIDIs in a MIDI sequencer like CakeWalk (which I used) and delete the FM and GUS channels and let it playback through a Sound Canvas and record it on your computer via the Line-Input of your sound card.

Hey there, can you please explain a few clear example of the difference in the Music ??

Is the Theme Song any different ?
Are there "More" sounds in that ?
Does the Guitar sound more realistic ?
Are there addititonal Guitar "simulation" effects ? Or what exactly is different ?

Thanks, just pure interest

[NightFright]

Currently, EMP v2.0 sounds more like what you were originally supposed to hear ingame when people were still using MIDI devices.

The older EMP v1.05 release sounds more different because it uses music from artists with superior sample banks. Thundik81 still has a backup version on his server (100 MB). You can easily compare the packs by exchanging them inside your EDuke32 installation.

[MusicallyInspired]

The AWE64 (and AWE32) sounds better than newer sound cards because Creative and all other sound card makers stopped caring about good MIDI support. So it's definitely true that an older card can sound better than a newer card. I have an AWE32 (basically the same thing as an AWE64), and the MIDI sound with it in Duke3D (while decent) is no where near as good as the SC-55. The Duke soundtrack does indeed sound best on the SC-55. Of course 3DR wouldn't be foolish enough to make it sound good only on the SC-55 (I still really like good ol' FM Synth sometimes!), but it was composed with the SC-55 and the sound quality and capabilities of the SC-55 are simply much more powerful and superior to any other sound media of the time. That goes for Doom as well.

As for sound differences, the SC-55 is a GS module which is Roland's own MIDI standard and has somewhere around 300 or more instruments. It's compatible with General MIDI (128 standard instruments) but has lots more instruments besides that and Duke3D uses these extra instruments that standard General MIDI does not support. It also has better sampling capabilities than any sound card has (GUS, AWE32/64, whatever. Although the thing about the GUS and AWE32/64 was that you could use custom samples which the SC-55 cannot) except for the SCC-1 or similar cards which is basically an SC-55 on a PC sound card (much like how the LAPC-I card is a PC card version of the MT-32/CM32L). There are also real-time controllable reverb and chorus effects and pitch shifting effects on drum kit samples. There aren't any guitar simulation effects, the SC-55 isn't that new. I would say that the guitars sound more realistic (or more acceptably realistic) than an AWE32/64.

[BuddhaMaster]

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

The AWE64 (and AWE32) sounds better than newer sound cards because Creative and all other sound card makers stopped caring about good MIDI support. So it's definitely true that an older card can sound better than a newer card. I have an AWE32 (basically the same thing as an AWE64), and the MIDI sound with it in Duke3D (while decent) is no where near as good as the SC-55. The Duke soundtrack does indeed sound best on the SC-55. Of course 3DR wouldn't be foolish enough to make it sound good only on the SC-55 (I still really like good ol' FM Synth sometimes!), but it was composed with the SC-55 and the sound quality and capabilities of the SC-55 are simply much more powerful and superior to any other sound media of the time. That goes for Doom as well.

As for sound differences, the SC-55 is a GS module which is Roland's own MIDI standard and has somewhere around 300 or more instruments. It's compatible with General MIDI (128 standard instruments) but has lots more instruments besides that and Duke3D uses these extra instruments that standard General MIDI does not support. It also has better sampling capabilities than any sound card has (GUS, AWE32/64, whatever. Although the thing about the GUS and AWE32/64 was that you could use custom samples which the SC-55 cannot) except for the SCC-1 or similar cards which is basically an SC-55 on a PC sound card (much like how the LAPC-I card is a PC card version of the MT-32/CM32L). There are also real-time controllable reverb and chorus effects and pitch shifting effects on drum kit samples. There aren't any guitar simulation effects, the SC-55 isn't that new. I would say that the guitars sound more realistic (or more acceptably realistic) than an AWE32/64.

Thats alot of technical information.
Ok, would it be possible that there are "more" sounds with the Roland SC-55 ?
I mean like a special pad your normally dont hear on a different Midi driver ?
That would be cool !!

Which Music-Pack is HRP v4 exactly using ?
Some Music there sounds really good !

What was really strange when i had my old AWE 64, the sound was completly different when using one specific version of the Microsoft owns "WDM" driver for AWE 64. The sub-bass was like 3x that strong and the complete sound-image was completly different. I only used this driver, once i installed different drivers or updated them, the sound was much different. Not just midi ! So i restricted my use to the one driver..... I really dunno if that was a bug or what the hell ! But it was very cool.. thats why i will never throw this Card away. Its a miracle

[Parkar]

Originally Posted by BuddhaMaster

Which Music-Pack is HRP v4 exactly using ?
Some Music there sounds really good !

It uses this pack except the grabbag.voc loop.

[PimpUigi]

Best "fixed" version of Stalker and Grabbag I've ever heard.

[Nimoy]

I love your pack, Musically Inspired. I was wondering if you could use that process on a midi from Lameduke?

I'd appreciate it, thanks!

[NightFright]

May I direct your attention to this forum thread. Someone already did a music pack for the whole ROTT game, "Fastway" included. It's great, and you should not just listen to the one track only.

[Cipher]

^ Wow, that FASTWAY song's great. Never heard it before. I might just have to take a closer look at ROTT.

Also, MusicallyInspired, if you could find time to work it into your busy schedule, would you mind SC-55ing the beta version of WHOMP?

[Nimoy]

Originally Posted by NightFright

May I direct your attention to this forum thread. Someone already did a music pack for the whole ROTT game, "Fastway" included. It's great, and you should not just listen to the one track only.

Oh, awesome. Thanks.

Hey, I downloaded the pack, and tried converting the fastway.mp3 to OGG, and it wont work in game. Im not using .defs, Im just inserting the jazz into the user.con. Whats the problem? (All of my other .ogg's and one .mid work fine.)

[Radar1013]

Originally Posted by Cipher

^ Wow, that FASTWAY song's great. Never heard it before. I might just have to take a closer look at ROTT.

Also, MusicallyInspired, if you could find time to work it into your busy schedule, would you mind SC-55ing the beta version of WHOMP?

Where did that version of Whomp come from?

[Nimoy]

Hey again, I looked at some other midis I had, and I have a version of streets which appears to be different, and a version of thecall which is definitely different (Shorter by a minute.)

[MusicallyInspired]

Yeah, I can record the Whomp beta for you.

Was that ROTT music pack also recorded with the SC-55? And if so how was it recorded? It might have the same doubled GUS/FM channel problem that some of my tracks had if they were recorded straight from the MIDIs outside the game with a player or sequencer.

EDIT: Just looked at the thread. Looks like it wasn't recorded from the SC-55 after all. Would anyone be interested in an SC-55 music pack for ROTT? Since its soundtrack was also composed for the SC-55 it'd be a good classic pack for purists. Not that I undermine the other guy's undertaking as I'm sure he did a great job.

[Cipher]

If there is a ROTT source port that supports OGG music, I'd definitely be interested in a SC-55 music pack. Might actually motivate me to play the shareware some time.

I'm going to ramble a bit here, but this whole SC-55 thing is really quite amazing. I mean, getting copies of the music from these games as it originally sounded when it was composed is like getting original copies of Chuck Jones' models for the Duke3D characters. MusicallyInspired, I just wanted to thank you for this contribution to these games and their legacy.

[Spiker]

How can I convert mid to ogg? I've dowloaded some program but the file created doesn't work.

[MusicallyInspired]

You can't just "convert" MIDI to OGG. MIDI is a completely different file format that contains music note and instrument information only and no audio data at all. OGGs are an audio format. You can't "convert" a MIDI to an OGG without MIDI equipment or software synthesizers (like SoundFonts or something). Try not to think of it in terms of converting from MIDI to OGG but instead in making an audio recording from playing back a MIDI file.

[Piterplus]

Originally Posted by MusicallyInspired

....software synthesizers (like SoundFonts or something).

Yes, try Roland Virtual Sound Canvas. Output in wav => convert to ogg

[Spiker]

So where can I get one of these?

[MusicallyInspired]

Why do you want to make them OGGs anyway? The Virtual Sound Canvas doesn't really sound good at all. Neither do most free SoundFonts or software synthesizers either, for that matter. Better than standard Windows MIDI, I guess, but nothing special.

[Spiker]

I thought it would be nice to convert some blood midi's to ogg's to have some nice pack because I really liked some of these tracks. But if it's so troublesome I can use them only as midi's.

[Radar1013]

I'm not sure if you would like them, but Mark McWane already did the tracks for Blood. You could try those out.

[Spiker]

Wow, thanks they're not perfect but cool anyway

[MrIgoe]

Thank you very much for the tracks, as a remarkable coincidence I recently got my old Win95 machine hooked up and was messing around with the massive level pack for DN3D. The music is pretty much spot on, and after YEARS of settling on listening to the MIDIs as yoinked from the CD and listening to the MIDIs change from OS to OS, I can say this is a breath of fresh air!

Job very well done, the best things DO come to those who wait!

[Cyrix]

Awesome work! Really sounds great hearing it from the SC-55 (wishes he owned one). Now I don't have to worry about muting the music anymore (the midi my sound card produces is horrible.)

A question though, do any of the other games with midi by Apogee work well with the SC-55 besides DN3D?

[MusicallyInspired]

Rise of the Triad, Shadow Warrior (demo only, I think), and Hocus Pocus. I think that was it. Everything else was Adlib-only. Hocus Pocus sounds really nice with it, too.

[Cyrix]

What about Wacky Wheels? I know that game had quite a few midi tracks.

[moggimus]

Wow, this is awesome. The machine I had when I originally got Duke3D had an Ensoniq Soundscape in it and it sounded pretty damn close to what you have here. I've lamented not hearing the music as it was then so I'm really glad to have this.

You should do Doom.

[PimpUigi]

Doom was supposedly already done.
(I downloaded it and stuff, but it sounds terrible compared to these Duke tracks)

jDMP or something like that.
SC 55 as well.

There are already much much better Doom music packs though (Sycraft) that aren't remixes, and are just extremely high quality re-recording of the midi's.

I think Sycraft's pack was the best.
After that, all the other recording's seem to sound like the 32X Doom music (props if you know what that sounds like, that was my first version of Doom to own)

[MusicallyInspired]

Originally Posted by Cyrix

What about Wacky Wheels? I know that game had quite a few midi tracks.

Possibly. I never played Wacky Wheels, though.

[Tea Monster]

I love the new sound pack. It sounds like a 80's synth, but that just adds to the nostalgia factor.

[MusicallyInspired]

Actually, it was the standard synth of the 90s. Wasn't even around in the 80s .

[Nimoy]

Originally Posted by PimpUigi

Doom was supposedly already done.
(I downloaded it and stuff, but it sounds terrible compared to these Duke tracks)

jDMP or something like that.
SC 55 as well.

There are already much much better Doom music packs though (Sycraft) that aren't remixes, and are just extremely high quality re-recording of the midi's.

I think Sycraft's pack was the best.
After that, all the other recording's seem to sound like the 32X Doom music (props if you know what that sounds like, that was my first version of Doom to own)

The best Doom music pack was done by Sonic Clang for that Classic Doom 3 mod.

[MusicallyInspired]

I wanted to do something similar for Duke3D like what was done for Classic Doom 3. My partner in that regard went MIA, though.

[PimpUigi]

That was a good pack too.
I don't personally feel it was better than Sycraft's pack, however it was quite similar.

[MusicallyInspired]

What about the OverClocked Remix album The Dark Side of Phobos?

[PimpUigi]

I haven't heard that one.

I did hear their SF2 HDR soundtrack, and I was extremely disappointed.
Mike Bison (Boxer) and Balrog (Claw) and Cammy had horrible "it's time for a tea party" music, instead of fighting game music.
Most of the characters new music was pretty poor, especially when there were so many great, upbeat remixes already on the site, by the same artists no less.
You could argue that they remade music for the soundtrack specifically, but songs like Mike Bisons (boxer) had already been on the site for years before they started making the soundtrack.
So yea, I was disappointed. Sorry to type your ear off.
The soundtrack did have it's good points, such as Guile, Ken, and Zangiefs stages, but there were again already better remixes on OCR.

My favorite songs were the credits (never heard in normal play,) the game over jingle (two seconds long, also never heard in normal play) and the SF2 theme (not even in the game, but I downloaded the soundtrack so I heard the remake)

[Malgon]

Originally Posted by Nimoy

The best Doom music pack was done by Sonic Clang for that Classic Doom 3 mod.

That music pack is awesome.