Why the hate???

[TheZachadoodle]

Well not to argue or anything Duke Nukem Forever has been in developed for a long period of time I think people should know that the developers are really trying their best for the game I mean look at the differences in the amount of gameplay in the trailer from 2001 to the one from 2009 plus if you really want to see some real gameplay here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRnv_tFKStQWhy'd I would even bet it's hard for them to show you some real gameplay games now a days concentrate on multiplayer while games back during the late 90s are trying to become the most expansive 3D game. Yet somewhere during 2001-2007 they probably scraped some ideas trying to keep it up to date with the gameplay functions of a typical halo or cod mulitplayer along with there own original Duke Nukem Forever game idea. I bet your thinking that I'm not making any since here either because of the smart allocations led by a internet troll or that I haven't gotten that much info on Duke Nukem Forever cause the developers are busy scraping while making new ideas. Either way I do know that I will be able to buy the game by the year 2011 with Duke Nukem Forever's original ideas and gameplay functions that are keep to date.

[Hudson]

Why the hate? Well that's a very valid question, one of which I think requires a respectable answer.

Now, as you read this keep in mind that I couldn't care less if DNF if ever released (personally I think it's already shit-canned permanently), you know why? It's because it's a video game. A video game I spent TWELVE ENTIRE YEARS waiting for yes, but a game none the less.

What really irritates me about the whole deal has relatively nothing to do with the game.. It has to do with the developers.. or more specifically the management of the development company.

They ran out of money. I can understand this. However they also fired every single employee in the entire company including people like Joe.. who stayed with them through it all.. with the exception of course of the two top men (who single-handedly tanked the entire company).

This, fine I can go along with. Gotta cut your losses, bad economy, etc. However to find out that after this whole disaster of mismanagement and an absolutely amateur clusterfxck of a development cycle.. lo and behold I find on twitter the one and only George fxcking Broussard GAMBLING IN VEGAS.

Now i'll go ahead and repeat that, so it really sinks in. After firing all their employees, tanking the entire company, and fighting bankruptcy.. The co-owner of the company is GAMBLING IN VEGAS.

If you want an example of the most pompous, arrogant, irresponsible, and just generally overall dickish thing to do.. folks, there you have it.

I'm sure that looks great to Joe Siegler, a man who bled "3D Realms" and "Apogee" for years.. or the entire DNF development team who get to look at his constant tweeting. Which seems that his life consists of only:

• a) Gambling
• b) Playing Video Games
• c) Watching Television

This is why, my friend, there is hate. Well deserved hate.

[Servo]

"Why the hate?" you ask?! Because those 'Adam Hotels' at 3DR jerked us off for TWELVE FUGGIN' YEARS!! That's why!!!!

[peoplessi]

Perfection. You can't achieve perfection.

[Hudson]

I'd have passed on perfection, and rather had a game.

Hell, even Daikatana eventually got released

[Zeromaeus]

Originally Posted by Hudson

I'd have passed on perfection, and rather had a game.

Hell, even Daikatana eventually got released

No it didn't. You speak of imaginary things, sir.

[Delicieuxz]

Originally Posted by Servo

"Why the hate?" you ask?! Because those 'Adam Hotels' at 3DR jerked us off for TWELVE FUGGIN' YEARS!! That's why!!!!

So? I could tell you for 50 years that I'm inventing a time machine. You actually think I'd owe you to have invented a time machine by the end of those 50 years? Don't be a ******* moron.

[Wamplet]

That was a very good post Hudson and of course i don't think that speaks very well for the company's or owner's situation, although it's not like it can really get much worse. It's definitely not a good image to project, especially in such a public manner. If I was a former employee, just based on what we know, which is pretty much nothing, I would be pretty mad reading that. Maybe he has medical or legal bills to pay and this is the only possible way to get the money in a quick manner.



When i first started mapping with BUILD, I seriously considered designing a game. I did it for fun and thought of how many people i might need to help work on it, much like a modern mod team would. I went through the process of sketching levels, enemies, art palettes(sp?), engine features and limitations and how i would implement them. I of course didn't have an engine, but i still thought about, "ok, how far is the view distance, the detail, what specs would be required, etc." Naturally, it was not an exact science, but I just went through the process to map out what i thought might work and how it could be used, what features could work and what limits i would have to deal with. If something wasn't possible, technology would make it possible eventually, for a sequel mayhaps. I always put the unattainable features into the sequel pile.

I still have the 50 or so pages of work and it came out to resemble something crossed between Grand Theft Auto, a MMORPG, and Postal. I obviously didn't have the money, time, or manpower to see my game come to fruition. I just wanted to sit there and at least design on paper a game that i personally would like to see come out and try to think of it at a design point of view.

However, even when i had everything laid out, there is no way I would sit there and make the game stay in development just for the sake of making it as perfect as possible.

Sure i have spent a month or 2 just testing maps i have made, for gameplay, bugs or to add something else that is currently possible after i have already spent a month or so just creating it. I said, ok this is the time i am going to dedicate to testing it and putting in stuff. I honestly didn't set exact dates. I just would make a rough estimate and just note that i would expect to spend this much time on BSP cuts, lighting, textures, AI, features and cool gimmicks to add in, etc. Thinking of this at a large scale, like in a real developer/company, I wonder does this get exponentially longer? Instead of 1 person working on this, you have 25, or 50, or 100. Of course, in my case it's just a map. Of course the difficulty is going to be more, but who much? I'd like to see or read about that. I'm sure there might be a book or 2 out there that would be a good read. Anyways, I always felt if this feature doesn't make it or it's not possible, I will just look at putting it into my next map. It was so easy to break the intended finishing date and say ok, i found something else i can put in (scope creep) or sometimes i would just have myself sitting there just staring at the map or the design and saying ok, what else can i put in it. I don't want to say its finished yet. Thinking of that on a larger scale of a game like DNF or Doom, i can see the engine being modified or changed to add some things and ten cascading down to levels or art, music, or whatever. Still, you have to be able to get to a point to where you are just sitting there spending 95% of your time thinking, "ok, what else?" When you are at that point, it's obvious that it's time to call it finished.

The sad part is at least according to the stuff that was released about the map/game status, they weren't even at that point, which is really disappointing.


I know my and the engine/map limitiations and have a general plan. Was it the same for DNF? (whether it's truly clearcut remains to be seen.) For example, the timeline or whatever was posted a while back about the levels and their general synopsis and completion status, I would be really worried if that was in all honesty the only stuff mapped out or written down and someone was told, ok here is what you need to do. Go work on this and i will check back in a month to see if you did it the way i want or like. If that happened, holy cow... Surely there was more, much more. hopefully hundreds of pages, sticky notes, of ideas.


The answers which seem rather obvious to us will just not be answered at a level of detail we want, unless someone from the inside posted about it.


Hopefully, the lawsuit will shed some light. Inquiring minds want to know.


Also in agreement with Delicieuxz. You can't expect you were wronged or owed the game to come out.

So many things are announced (whether it be games, technology, or the next fried food) and never come to fruition. However, the ones that usually don't come around are usually caused by lack of need, underfunding, or mismanagement.

I think DNF is now officially in the same class of fame as the Phantom Console.

I just looked phantom console up on google and the 3rd or 4th hit showed a link for "phantom console being released with DNF on it" An april 1 joke, of course.

[The Count]

Originally Posted by Delicieuxz

So? I could tell you for 50 years that I'm inventing a time machine. You actually think I'd owe you to have invented a time machine by the end of those 50 years? Don't be a ******* moron.

If you even remotely expect to be taken seriously and not to be taken as some old prick who's having fun misleading people all of his life:

YES.

[NutWrench]

Originally Posted by Zeromaeus

No it didn't. You speak of imaginary things, sir.

Indeed. There is no such thing as Daikatana and there never was.

[DanielleRh]

After 12 years, hate is deserved. I guess that explains it all.

[Skiffer]

Originally Posted by Hudson

I'd have passed on perfection, and rather had a game.

I'd rather have no game than yet another shitty game. Different strokes for different folks.

[crunchy superman]

Originally Posted by Skiffer

I'd rather have no game than yet another shitty game. Different strokes for different folks.

Looks like you win.

[Semaj]

Originally Posted by crunchy superman

Looks like you win.

And the prize for that is getting nothing in return.

[Scotty]

:you'rewinner:

[prophecy holder]

Originally Posted by Hudson

Why the hate? Well that's a very valid question, one of which I think requires a respectable answer.

Now, as you read this keep in mind that I couldn't care less if DNF if ever released (personally I think it's already shit-canned permanently), you know why? It's because it's a video game. A video game I spent TWELVE ENTIRE YEARS waiting for yes, but a game none the less.

What really irritates me about the whole deal has relatively nothing to do with the game.. It has to do with the developers.. or more specifically the management of the development company.

They ran out of money. I can understand this. However they also fired every single employee in the entire company including people like Joe.. who stayed with them through it all.. with the exception of course of the two top men (who single-handedly tanked the entire company).

This, fine I can go along with. Gotta cut your losses, bad economy, etc. However to find out that after this whole disaster of mismanagement and an absolutely amateur clusterfxck of a development cycle.. lo and behold I find on twitter the one and only George fxcking Broussard GAMBLING IN VEGAS.

Now i'll go ahead and repeat that, so it really sinks in. After firing all their employees, tanking the entire company, and fighting bankruptcy.. The co-owner of the company is GAMBLING IN VEGAS.

If you want an example of the most pompous, arrogant, irresponsible, and just generally overall dickish thing to do.. folks, there you have it.

I'm sure that looks great to Joe Siegler, a man who bled "3D Realms" and "Apogee" for years.. or the entire DNF development team who get to look at his constant tweeting. Which seems that his life consists of only:

• a) Gambling
• b) Playing Video Games
• c) Watching Television

This is why, my friend, there is hate. Well deserved hate.

Very well said. The guy who praised Daikatana can now raise his head in joy and pride, because it didn't take him 12 years to tank a company.

[FlashBack]

Originally Posted by Hudson

Which seems that his life consists of only:

• a) Gambling
• b) Playing Video Games
• c) Watching Television

This is why, my friend, there is hate. Well deserved hate.

you forgot

• d) Tweeting
• e) Eeating all kinds of fastfood

[Thewho]

Originally Posted by Hudson

I'm sure that looks great to Joe Siegler, a man who bled "3D Realms" and "Apogee" for years.. or the entire DNF development team who get to look at his constant tweeting. Which seems that his life consists of only:

• a) Gambling
• b) Playing Video Games
• c) Watching Television

This is why, my friend, there is hate. Well deserved hate.

I don't think hate is deserved at all. So what if he is gambling in Vegas, it's his money he the right to do with it as he pleases. It shouldn't really have any significance in my opinion. Scott and George didn't crash the business out of spite.

[crunchy superman]

Yes, for all we know he had that Vegas trip planned for months. But still, being so flamboyant and public about the money you're throwing around after just canning your entire staff is in rather poor taste. He could have had his gambling trip without being so flashy about it.

[Wamplet]

Originally Posted by Thewho

I don't think hate is deserved at all. So what if he is gambling in Vegas, it's his money he the right to do with it as he pleases. It shouldn't really have any significance in my opinion. Scott and George didn't crash the business out of spite.

Hardly anyone intentionally tanks a business out of spite if they are the owner, unless there is an insurance scam or there is another partner involved that they want to screw.

I believe if you poll everyone here, nearly all of them will say the company crashed because of poor management of the company.

Now whether you want to argue someone was dumb as bricks when it comes to financial management of a game development business, negotiating with publishers, or perhaps the worst bad mangement trait of all, micromanaging syndrome, that is all certainly in the realm of debate as to what happened.

I'm not implying any of this happened, but these are all quite possible.

[TheZachadoodle]

Here's a simile Duke Nukem Forever is like Inglorious Bastards because Quentin Tarantino has been working on his film for over a decade and look at what the result is a badass WW2 Movie with Brad Pitt (If you hated the movie then go watch a shitty movie that goes fast that does not have story whatsoever Example: Disaster Movie=Boring and Not funny but sometimes offensive) Duke Nukem Forever could be the best Fps game up to date if the developers know of what they're doing oh sure they have been working on it for 12 years but thats because they were trying to fund it with other projects like Prey and Max Payne Quentin Tarantino was working on Grindhouse and Kill Bill before he could get to Inglorious Bastards.

[Semaj]

DNF can be good, but what matters is whether we can play it or not. Inglorious Bastards did came out in theaters, that is a fact now. Nobody knows if DNF will even come out at all. So your simile is incorrect because you are comparing one product that is already released, verses an other one that has not been release. (I would think this will be more appropriate if it has been establish that Inglorious Bastards is a film that took a long time to make and was release as a good film, and DNF is a game that took a long time to make and was release as a good game. This could certainly be use against people who complain about the quality of DNF after it was release.)

Also, Quentin Tarantino has not been filming Inglorious Bastards for 12+ years. He may have been keeping the idea for a long time, but as you have put out he had filmed other movies before making Inglorious Bastards. If 3DR worked on other titles without announcing DNF, and then annouce DNF in 2006-2007, people would not be upset if it wasn't done now.

[TheZachadoodle]

I see your point but what I mean is that they're was so much planning and updating that had to happened like guess how many ideas have been scraped or how many parts of the game is dead right now I'm going on a gamble in my head thinking that since 3D realms signed a agreement with the wrong guys that it might be thrown away along with the game. I hope that sooner or later 2K doesn't takeover Duke Nukem Forever since George along with Scott originated the whole game. If there is still a delay then it's probably because 2K is rubbing in baskets of money that they received from developers like 3D Realms and Apogee I don't know what is happending right now but what I do know is that the gameplay footage shown in this episode shows that Duke is there http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEcYciYEEHM If whatever I'm saying is still retarded then its the amount of resources that are limited when it comes to Duke Nuke Forever period!

[barreldragons]

This video is not available in your country due to copyright restrictions.

son of a...

and you would think that living in a democratic contry would actuly give you a internet that not control by the gouvernement -.-

i like to imagine 3d realms is a sinking boat, and George as the capitain. And even if the ship is sinking , it turn out that George actuly made plan to take his vacasion in las vegas to reliff the stress, to make the boat float a while longer he threw everybody overboard exept Scott his trusty first mate.
so now we are on a ship that sinking, no more crew to cruise and been at see for a good 12 year.

mmmmmm sobody should do a parody of that picture XD

[TheZachadoodle]

oh just in case you can't see that video there are parts of it here http://www.gametrailers.com/user-mov...r-first/226223

[TheZachadoodle]

heres another video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJsb2LRxO8k

[barreldragons]

well now we can understand why they cant put it in sequence , did you see the little flag that every monster got? XD

[alex d]

It's called an unweighted vertex being rendered at the scene's origin, no doubt due to a bug in the vertex shader which handles skinning the mesh to it's skeleton. What does that have to do with them not being able to "put it in sequence", whatever that's meant to mean?

[Suppressor1]

Why the hate?

Me:

Because I have done many things in 12 Years.
2001 High school
2002 alternative civilian service
2003 study dentistry
2009 Dentist
====================================
I have done something useful in my life




3D Realms:

(I give a damn.... about the games, they placed a logo on the package, but have been developed by other studios, like Max Payne series > Remedy or Prey > human head)

1997 Starting with Duke Nukem Forever
2009 RIP
====================================

They have done nothing useful

>>>

And they all could be milionairs right now... I compare this situation to the following story:

3D Relams finds a 400 pound bullion in their garden. And what comes next? 3D Realms is not able to bring it to the bank, because the bank is soooooo far away, and they think: "Oh, 400 pounds are heavy...." And at the end they leave it in the garden... and later, all starve

[Kristian Joensen]

"(I give a damn.... about the games, they placed a logo on the package, but have been developed by other studios, like Max Payne series > Remedy or Prey > human head)"

They did so much much much more than place a logo on those games.

[crunchy superman]

Still, if they've completely dropped internal development, what purpose do they serve now? Isn't working with/farming out to other developers what Radar Group was created for? Unless of course, 3DR has been relegated to being the middleman for iphone "games".

[Kristian Joensen]

Well THAT is a really good question.

[peoplessi]

They still own some IPs, so I'd expect them to license stuff further. Similar to the way a lot Apogee stuff was licensed for the new-Apogee.

[Onebullit]

* a) Gambling
* b) Playing Video Games
* c) Watching Television
???

And what does he supposed to do, write you an personal e-mail where he explains to you what went wrong and where ?

It's his life and he is living it.

[TheZachadoodle]

I agree with Onebullit cause what do you think he's suppose to do be bored in a cubicle? Well if you want a game developer like that then go play a retarded big budget game where developers have no creativity or fun. They were probably celebrating cause of THE GAMES THEY WERE CONCENTRATING ON FOR 6 YEARS!!! They probably had to raise a budget in order to get the money to make Duke Nukem Forever and that they were celebrating on the money they got from other developers. I wonder where they are right now? Is 3D Realms really dead? Apogee? I think I should wait for a developer that came from 3d Realms or Apogee to answer your and my questions so IF YOUR FROM 3D REALMS OR APOGEE PLEASE RESPOND I NEED YOUR HELP PLEASE!!!

[prophecy holder]

Originally Posted by Onebullit

* a) Gambling
* b) Playing Video Games
* c) Watching Television
???

And what does he supposed to do, write you an personal e-mail where he explains to you what went wrong and where ?

It's his life and he is living it.

He tanks a company and has many people fired and then gambles in Vegas while he left others seeking jobs (Almost like the one boss in Jim carrey movie Dick and jane), not the kind of person people want to be friends with. I bet $100 if this was done by another person you would all be saying "what a pompous ass" that guy is.

[Onebullit]

Originally Posted by prophecy holder

He tanks a company and has many people fired and then gambles in Vegas while he left others seeking jobs (Almost like the one boss in Jim carrey movie Dick and jane), not the kind of person people want to be friends with. I bet $100 if this was done by another person you would all be saying "what a pompous ass" that guy is.

i don't even know the bosses or something like that, but your also right.....
What im saying also is that the money he gambles in Texas Foldem Poker can not be compared with the amount of money the company needs to finish the game ...

Peace.

[SS202]

Originally Posted by Onebullit

i don't even know the bosses or something like that, but your also right.....
What im saying also is that the money he gambles in Texas Foldem Poker can not be compared with the amount of money the company needs to finish the game ...

Peace.

And at the same time it's his money, not the company's. I do think it's in pretty bad taste, but hate isn't deserved.

[Kray]

Hudson pretty much said everything I wanted to say. How can anyone defend GB? 3DR is without a doubt the most poorly run developer studio in video game history. Now GB is on his way to being the most hated man in video game history! He will probably even surpass Jack Thompson lol.

Duke could have been a huge franchise and GB has squandered it. What a waste . Just think if by some miracle DNF does come out there will very likely not be another fps Duke game developed by 3DR in our lifetimes.

I dont know how old GB is but he seems content to waste his life playing mmos. I have played WoW and I am very familiar with the mmo addict personality. GB reminds me of a WoW addict. They are very arrogant and cannot be reasoned with. Just try telling a WoW addict why he needs to get a life. WoW addicts do not live in the real world, they play to forget how sad and pathetic their lives have become. Basically I think George started playing mmos and he did the bare minimum on DNF just enough to string us and the publishers along for 12 years.

In closing the hate is well deserved. Don't worry about GB and how he will respond to the afore-mentioned hate, he is in mmo haze atm and cannot be bothered.

[WoodenSword]

Nobody's happy with what happened, but before making these nasty comments about gb and scott please take a moment and look at apogee/3d realms history of games and its contribution to the computer gaming world and you will see that you couldn't be more wrong.