The Amazing Spider-man 2

[Kalki]

Electro as villain ensured that the sequel would maintain the exaggerated "science" of the original. That doesn't bother me anymore, heh.



Suit looks great.

[dan2091]

That's a pretty funny picture. I hope the best for this film .

[Kalki]

Other pics:





Really digging the suit.

[Damien_Azreal]

I like the new web shooters and the giant white eyes. So glad they finally made the suit like the comics.

[dan2091]

Official Trailer on Youtube.

[Kalki]

Meant to post that. It's huge & bright like the animated shows and I'm loving this Ultimate Spider-man look to the character.

[dan2091]

Yep . It's aiming at something big.

Did you notice the Dr. Octopus and Vulture easter eggs? I didn't pay close attention, someone pointed that out on comicbookmovie.com.

I wonder what is the long term plan for this movies.. it will be funny to see how it turns out to be.

[Thief]

Ok, so Electro, Rhino and possibly a Goblin? Wow.
Trailer was great.

[Damien_Azreal]

It looks like they are setting the ground for a Sinister Six story arc. Which would be awesome.

But, I absolutely LOVE the new suit. Specially the eyes... they look fantastic.

[Kalki]

Happy New Year!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFjZa0wnQUM

[Commando Nukem]

I have yet to see the new one. I was a little embittered by the fact that the Raimi series of films went downhill as it did. I felt there needed to be a bit more time between the death and relaunch, personally, but that trailer looks pretty snazzy.

Is the first Amazing Spiderman flick worth seeing?

[Damien_Azreal]

Yes.
Personally, I was never really "into" the Raimi trilogy. Which sucks, as I'm a huge fan of Raimi's films.
But, the casting for pretty much every character felt completely off. From Tobey as Peter, to James Franco as Harry.... and even more so. None of them looked like high school students.
And... the film itself, it's like it wanted to be serious, but at the same time wanted to be campy and like the comics. It couldn't find good ground and just felt horribly uneven.

Then, toss in Willem Dafoe. An amazing actor, with an ungodly expressive and creepy face... he's gonna be the Green Goblin. Awesome. Then, they completely cover his face with an ungodly ugly and really stupid looking suit.


The new one nailed what I wanted out of a Spider-Man film. It's a more serious tale, but there is humor in there. And instead of feeling forced of campy, the humor feels more natural.
Also, they brought in one key thing about Spider-Man that the Raimi trilogy missed. Peter was a smart ass. He was always making sarcastic remarks... in the Raimi films he maybe does one per film.
It's done much better in The Amazing Spider-Man. He jokes, pokes fun... and much like in the comics, does it to the point that he causes himself to mess up at times.
It's better casting, better direction, a better looking film... enjoyable characters. Everything.

Also, I actually cared when Uncle Ben died in this one. It felt more real, more believable. It had a stronger impact and felt more real in how it shaped Peter's actions.

[X-Vector]

Originally Posted by Damien_Azreal

Yes.
But, the casting for pretty much every character felt completely off. From Tobey as Peter, to James Franco as Harry.... and even more so. None of them looked like high school students.

They still look younger than their equivalents in the comic(s):



I guess this is what bothers me about both Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield; they look like goofy milkmouths, while the characters in the original strip all seem like young adults with chiseled jawlines, toned bodies and ample curves.
Even in his very first appearance, where he's portrayed as a nerdy "professional wallflower", he still looks more mature than either actor (despite the fact that Maguire was about 26 when Raimi's first Spider-Man feature was shot):



This isn't exactly realistic, but it does seem to give more of an edge to Peter Parker's behaviour and the violence he and his adversaries engage in (other than the inherent differences between the two media).



I must confess I'm not really in the know when it comes to Spider-Man or other superhero comics, but I always pictured Spidey/Parker more as a sarcastic wisecracking (late) adolescent than the goofball kid of the films.

[Kalki]

Originally Posted by Commando Nukem

I have yet to see the new one. I was a little embittered by the fact that the Raimi series of films went downhill as it did. I felt there needed to be a bit more time between the death and relaunch, personally, but that trailer looks pretty snazzy.

Is the first Amazing Spiderman flick worth seeing?

It's alright. Is more plot mumbo jumbo than character driven. It lacks the warmth (or the larger emotional palette) of the Raimi movies. When the story isn't retreading old ground (the main problem being a "reboot") it gets a bit emo, especially with the ending. The spidey wit is an improvement but the stammering romance can annoy. I liked the female characters (Aunt May, Gwen) better in this one.

[Kalki]

Watched it on IMAX 3D this morning. Some mixed feelings. Improved on the first in many ways and was more enjoyable on the whole. They fixed all the criticisms I mentioned in the post above, most notably the story had less plot "science" and more character building. Besides that the 3D was truly worthwhile and the animation was great to the point where it overshadowed those suit improvements.

The negatives were that it was unapologetically comic bookish in parts, especially with the villains. Early parts of Electro (as Max) reminded me of Spoiler:

show spoiler

Jim Carrey's Edward Nygma in Batman Forever

and Paul Giamatti was inexplicable - but probably just having fun, which used to be a problem Spoiler:

show spoiler

with those Batman movies

but Sony doesn't seem to care.

[Damien_Azreal]

I've seen people state those same negatives about the film, and I didn't mind them.

Spoiler:

show spoiler

With Max, yes it is a very similar character arc as Edward in Batman Forever. But, in ASM2 it's handled much better.
Max was a nobody, ignored by the world and saved by Spider-Man. And Peter gives him a little boost before leaving.
So, Max's attachment to Spidey felt more believable to me. And, where as Edward in Batman Forever loved Bruce just because it worked for the plot, and he demands an a response to a very touchy business move the first time they meet... and when denied, instantly turns crazy and hates him.
With Max the transformation only made his inner demons harder to control, and his delusional attachment to Spidey more dangerous.
So, Peter not remembering him, and not stopping the cop from shooting him... seemed more believable to fuel his anger towards Spider-Man.

With Paul as Rhino, it was said long before the movie came out that he was only in the film for maybe five minutes. So, I didn't expect much if anything out of him and figured it would just be a setup for the next film.
And, it was. And to me, it worked fine. In the comics it wasn't uncommon for an bad guy Spider-Man stops to come back much later on with a grudge and the means to try and take Spider-Man down. So, to me, Rhino just felt like that.

The way I see it, TASM2 had two baddies. And I loved it, to me it's the best Spider-Man film made.
As Andrew Garfield has nailed Peter Parker and Spider-Man. The personality and snarky attitude. And to the fact that when he's Spider-Man, he's enjoying it. Unlike so many other superheroes... it's not a burden or curse for him.
It's his way to give back and validate himself. He really enjoys it and it shows. That's not something I ever got from the Raimi films.

But, there was so much about the film I loved. From the focus on character moments, Andrew as Peter... the relationship between Peter and Gwen. The music (Electro's background music was awesome) and the fights.

Spoiler:

show spoiler

In talking with people and reading around, I've seen a lot of people have issue with Harry's turn in this film.
Saying he starts hating Spider-Man too quickly. Which I don't agree with. Yes it was a very quick turn, but in Harry's mind he's dying. He doesn't have time and needs it immediately. So, being told no... being told that he can't help him at that time and they need to take it slowly is just a kick in the guy. That's time Harry doesn't have.
So to him, Spider-Man basically signed his death sentence.
Another thing I've seen people complain about is the fight between Spidey and the Goblin. Which, I prefer this one over the Raimi one.
Yeah, it's Harry instead of Norman... it's not built up over the whole film... but it didn't need to be. The actual fight between the two in the tower is incredibly fast and frantic. And the fact that Peter actually had to try to strangle Harry to get him enough time to try and save Gwen... it's a more powerful fight then Norman just killing himself in Raimi's film.

I also loved that when Harry confronts Peter about Spider-Man, telling Peter that he has to know Spider-Man because he took pictures of him. The fact that Peter says "I took those from a long ways away, I don't know him." was great.
It's a small touch, but to me it helps. As in the Raimi trilogy Peter's just all "Yeah, I'm friends with him... durp"
But, so many little things I loved in this one. From Aunt May's emotional plea with Peter "Your my boy."... that was great. To Peter protecting the kid from the bullies and then walking him home.
There was a ton of heart in this film and I'm so glad they put that much focus into the humanity that drives Peter Parker.
The fact that Peter has possibly the hardest life out of a lot of Marvel's heroes. But, instead of letting it drag him down... it only pushes him to try harder to do better. Yes, he's had more then his share of heartache and horrible experiences. But, he tries so hard to protect the city to make it so people don't have to go through those type of experiences themselves.

And, Gwen's death was... perfect. I loved the move from the bridge in the comic to the bell tower here. And the emotional hit at the end was just... perfect.

Personally, the movie was great. Perfect? No. But, no movie is. But, this was the only comic book film I was looking forward to.
I have zero interest in the next Avengers... DC are ruining Batman VS Superman by basically making it Justice League.
And, as it stands... Spider-Man is becoming the only series I find worth following film wise.


Also, side note, I'm glad Disney/Marvel don't own the film rights to Spider-Man. With Sony having it, it keeps it focused just on Spidey being the hero.
I could easily see Marvel/Disney trying to cram in other heroes and drag Spider-Man into the Avengers. ugh.

[Kalki]

Originally Posted by Damien_Azreal

I've seen people state those same negatives about the film, and I didn't mind them.

Spoiler:

show spoiler

With Max, yes it is a very similar character arc as Edward in Batman Forever. But, in ASM2 it's handled much better.
Max was a nobody, ignored by the world and saved by Spider-Man. And Peter gives him a little boost before leaving.
So, Max's attachment to Spidey felt more believable to me. And, where as Edward in Batman Forever loved Bruce just because it worked for the plot, and he demands an a response to a very touchy business move the first time they meet... and when denied, instantly turns crazy and hates him.
With Max the transformation only made his inner demons harder to control, and his delusional attachment to Spidey more dangerous.
So, Peter not remembering him, and not stopping the cop from shooting him... seemed more believable to fuel his anger towards Spider-Man.

Neither character seem believable to me. Certainly not relatable in an case. Compare Max's character with the relationship between the two leads and the movie appears schizophrenic.

With Paul as Rhino, it was said long before the movie came out that he was only in the film for maybe five minutes. So, I didn't expect much if anything out of him and figured it would just be a setup for the next film.
And, it was. And to me, it worked fine. In the comics it wasn't uncommon for an bad guy Spider-Man stops to come back much later on with a grudge and the means to try and take Spider-Man down. So, to me, Rhino just felt like that.

My problem with these villains are that they are caricatures. There's no depth to them. We've seen some great villains in comic book movies of recent years. Many were fun and seemed real and relatable despite the exaggeration inherent to the genre. And now we're back to this? If you still disagree, that's fine. Nothing more to add except for maybe: Spoiler:

show spoiler

Kafka

[Damien_Azreal]

Other then Heath Ledger's Joker and Loki... I'm having a difficult time thinking of great villains in comic book movies.
And, that's mostly a fault on DC and Marvel themselves. They have a lot of bad guys, yes, but they have a lot of crap bad guys.

The ones I'd like to see in films won't ever be done properly. Like Carnage. Marvel will never do a film version of Carnage that really captures the bloodlust and insanity behind Cletus Cassidy.
Venom... while they are planning a Venom film, I have serious doubts that they'll get him right either. In the same way, toning him down and removing his love for violence.

And really, Paul was yes, playing it very over the top... but I wasn't really expecting anything serious from his cameo. Specially knowing it was just a setup for the next entry.
As for them caricatures, sorry but they were more believable then Norman's Power Ranger Green Goblin, or Doc Oct instantly going psycho for the entire film and only having morals when Peter drops the whole "responsibility' crap on him.
I loved Doc Oct in Spider-Man 2... but it was just as campy as everything else in the film. And, sorry... off topic... but Doc Oct was just a normal guy with extra metal arms. He shouldn't have been able to physically endure punches from Spider-Man.

But, to me, very few villains in these movies are anything but overplayed caricatures. Minus a few exceptions (Joker, Loki).
And while I love this movie, I'm not saying Electro wasn't over the top. But, I'm saying it wasn't a bad thing.
Yeah, these villains couldn't be put next to The Joker, but they don't have to be. It'd be like putting Sly's Dredd in the new Dredd film. Just will not work.
Max/Electro is over the top at times, and definitely not as defined as Peter or Gwen... but that's not a bad thing. And, face it, nobody in these films will ever be as well defined as Peter or Gwen.

[Damien_Azreal]

Other then Heath Ledger's Joker and Loki... I'm having a difficult time thinking of great villains in comic book movies.
And, that's mostly a fault on DC and Marvel themselves. They have a lot of bad guys, yes, but they have a lot of crap bad guys.

The ones I'd like to see in films won't ever be done properly. Like Carnage. Marvel will never do a film version of Carnage that really captures the bloodlust and insanity behind Cletus Cassidy.
Venom... while they are planning a Venom film, I have serious doubts that they'll get him right either. In the same way, toning him down and removing his love for violence.

And really, Paul was yes, playing it very over the top... but I wasn't really expecting anything serious from his cameo. Specially knowing it was just a setup for the next entry.
As for them caricatures, sorry but they were more believable then Norman's Power Ranger Green Goblin, or Doc Oct instantly going psycho for the entire film and only having morals when Peter drops the whole "responsibility' crap on him.
I loved Doc Oct in Spider-Man 2... but it was just as campy as everything else in the film. And, sorry... off topic... but Doc Oct was just a normal guy with extra metal arms. He shouldn't have been able to physically endure punches from Spider-Man.

But, to me, very few villains in these movies are anything but overplayed caricatures. Minus a few exceptions (Joker, Loki).
And while I love this movie, I'm not saying Electro wasn't over the top. But, I'm saying it wasn't a bad thing.
Yeah, these villains couldn't be put next to The Joker, but they don't have to be. It'd be like putting Sly's Dredd in the new Dredd film. Just will not work.
Max/Electro is over the top at times, and definitely not as defined as Peter or Gwen... but that's not a bad thing. And, face it, nobody in these films will ever be as well defined as Peter or Gwen.

[Kalki]

Originally Posted by Damien_Azreal

As for them caricatures, sorry but they were more believable then Norman's Power Ranger Green Goblin, or Doc Oct instantly going psycho for the entire film and only having morals when Peter drops the whole "responsibility' crap on him.
I loved Doc Oct in Spider-Man 2... but it was just as campy as everything else in the film. And, sorry... off topic... but Doc Oct was just a normal guy with extra metal arms. He shouldn't have been able to physically endure punches from Spider-Man.

There was enough setup with those characters talking to mirrors and metal tentacles to know they had slipped off the deep end. And despite that insanity, they had clear motivations and rather rationalized goals and both took on spider-man after he got in the way. The madness didn't begin until each had their respective "incidents" and you can see the moment they break from sanity but the same can't be said for Rhino or Electro because neither changed much beyond gaining the power to hit back and cause mayhem without repercussions. They were pretty much the way they were all through the movie.

I agree with you on the Doc Ock punch though. Carnage could be done btw, just like Blade was (which also had a nice relatable villain).

[FullMetalJacket]

Originally Posted by Kalki

There was enough setup with those characters talking to mirrors and metal tentacles to know they had slipped off the deep end. And despite that insanity, they had clear motivations and rather rationalized goals and both took on spider-man after he got in the way. The madness didn't begin until each had their respective "incidents" and you can see the moment they break from sanity but the same can't be said for Rhino or Electro because neither changed much beyond gaining the power to hit back and cause mayhem without repercussions. They were pretty much the way they were all through the movie.

I agree with you on the Doc Ock punch though. Carnage could be done btw, just like Blade was (which also had a nice relatable villain).

I thought Electro's character arc and motivation made sense. Many of the great comic book villains are a foil or mirror for the hero. Max Dillon was a geek/outsider who got picked on (rather like Peter Parker) and wanted to lash out at people (remember, he fantasizes about screaming at Alistair Smythe), and his new Electro powers gave him the push he needed to go over the edge.

As for Doc Ock: it didn't seem that way in the movie, but Spider-Man normally pulls his punches when he's fighting opponents that are less durable than himself.

[Damien_Azreal]

Originally Posted by Kalki

...but the same can't be said for Rhino or Electro because neither changed much beyond gaining the power to hit back and cause mayhem without repercussions.

Mostly because that's exactly what Rhino was and is. He's just a bad guy who got the power to do as much damage as he wanted.
Some times, bad guys don't have or even need emotional motivation to cause harm. They need the means. And that's what I took from Paul's Aleksei Sytsevich in the movie.
Nothing more then a bad guy given the ability to cause as much mayhem as possible. And that's all he wanted. It worked fine for me.

With Max and Electro, I don't really feel like going back and forth on him. I think he works. And worked very well.
As Max he was a sad, invisible nobody. An invisible guy who Spider-Man (in Max's mind) took the time to save. To save because, to Max, he was important to Spider-Man.
As FullMetalJacket said, he fantasized about strangling his boss and formed an unhealthy obsession on Spider-Man ... so he was already unhinged.
The change just gave him the ability to strike back at a world that had ignored him, and didn't care about him.
And, Spider-Man not remembering him and (in Max's mind) letting the cop shoot him pushed his obsession over the edge.

Max isn't a mentally healthy person made evil, he was an unbalanced person on the verge. Who was given the means to force people to notice him.
Rhino... was nothing more then a bad guy. Which some people are.

Carnage could be done btw, just like Blade was (which also had a nice relatable villain).

Blade I loved, but I don't see Marvel investing in a hardcore R rated film again. They've expressed a dislike of R ratings, specially after Blade Trinity (which was awful) didn't draw in the numbers.
And the last two Punisher films (which the first one with Thomas Jane... was awesome. Warzone was trash) failed to meet expectations.

I doubt Marvel would ever back an R rated take on another of their properties. And that would be the only way to really do Cletus Cassidy. Violent, bloody... and evil. Completely inhuman psychotic blood lust.

it's part of why Ryan Reynold's Deadpool hasn't been able to get off the ground. Fighting with Marvel on an R rating.