Rise of the Triad II

Neuro · 10-13-2009, 11:42 PM

OK, so what should the sequel to Rise of the Triad be like?

Oh, I know. It should be a high-definition remix of it with new maps, kind of like the hi-def Street Fighter remix. At the very core, it would be the same game, but nicer looking and designed with some modern touches.

Glassagate · 10-14-2009, 12:26 AM

They had better bring back the 'yawning hand of death'. If it
came to the 360, they should make it possible to use that attack
by using the Natal.

Oh, and at least 2 player co-op. Better make that 4.

Nubwagon · 03-17-2010, 11:48 AM

I really don't think they should update too much of it. Of course bring it up to speed with the current FPS technology, but keep the same feel to the game...faster than any other FPS out there!

I was talking to a friend of mine the other day about FPS multiplayer games nowadays...MW2 in particular. The problem that I see with it is that there are too many options so most everyone is going to complain that certain weapons/perks/etc are overpowered and unfair. It seems that most of these companies that make these games are out to see how complex and fancy they can make them.

How about we keep it simple and even? That's what I loved about the multiplayer in ROTT. Everyone started out with the same weapon and had to fight to pick up a launcher (bazooka, firewall, drunk missle, etc.). But usually the map made it so that other players could pick up a launcher as well & have a joust to see who blows up first. That type of a simple style of play lends itself to the players having more skill. So those with more talent do better. Most gaming companies have lost sight of this and "dumb down" their games so that Billy 8 year old can play & be good at it.

I say bring back the simple ROTT style of multiplayer! Yes, and the suggestion of co-op would be great as well. And, of course, make it multiplayer capable over the internet.

Ok go! Start making it!

Neuro · 09-20-2010, 10:55 PM

F@#K yeah. Yeah, we really need the multiplayer done by Q1 2011. Pronto.

Rapture_Rising · 09-20-2010, 11:49 PM

I would love to see ROTT II, i made a thread about this ages ago saying that i would love to see a ROTT reboot in the future.

http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showthread.php?t=36189

KO Gilligan · 09-21-2010, 01:48 AM

I made a thread that was a poll of RoTT2 vs ShadowWarrior2

RoTT almost kept up - I voted RoTT, and it was said that Shadow Warrior was off the table legally anyway.

Risse of the Triad II would be very awesome.

jbailey · 09-21-2010, 06:19 AM

If I understand things properly, some people want a total re-make of rott
(or winrottgl) with more modern features and options, while I wouldn't be
totally against such a thing, when I started working on rott, my main goal
was to:

Fix bugs in the code (mostly done)
Provide hi-res/opengl support (done)
Update the audio code to sound better and provide at least some support
for other formats (done)
Generally enhance the game with extra menu options (done)

The only official thing left that really needs to get done is proper
network play (not done).

---------------------------

If all the other things that's been mentioned were done, I think winrottgl
would lose it's feel, it would be a totally different game in a way even
if you kept the original maps in place, but at the same time, it would
be interesting to see a rott re-make with all this new stuff.

GrimWoman · 09-21-2010, 12:22 PM

I would love to see a Rise Of The Triads 2, it would be great if it mixed old school game-play with modern game-play.

Neuro · 09-23-2010, 08:13 AM

The only significant change there should be is a new engine that adds some of Build's features like pseudo-3D floors-over-floors. Otherwise, there ought to be some new guns, items, and enemies. How fun would some new traps and some sort of new jump pad be? The developers, whoever they are, had better stay within the creative realm of the DIP.

Rapture_Rising · 09-23-2010, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReaperMan

I would love to see a Rise Of The Triads 2, it would be great if it mixed old school game-play with modern game-play.

And for gawds sake have a weapon wheel, you have all the DNF fanboys over at gearbox crying becuase DNF has a 2 weapon limit, its quite funny really.

GrimWoman · 09-23-2010, 09:48 AM

I think a four system weapon system would work well for ROTT II, i don't want a two weapon system like what DNF has.

Per_Scan · 10-18-2010, 08:57 AM

Basically, all I want is this:

http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php...n+of+the+triad

With voxels. Just that would make me a happy, happy chappy!

I fear that 'modernising it too much will kill the game's charm. It's a very particular game made by a particular group of inspired (if a little insane!) people from a very particular time in the evolution of the FPS. That's a lot of particulars to replicate!

StoneFrog · 10-18-2010, 02:46 PM

I've been following that project, Per_Scan. It's very promising! I'm glad that the mappers are keeping the architecture fairly tame - the view of orthogonal walls has kind of changed over time from being considered a technical constraint to part of the style. Certainly, it wouldn't be a ROTT inspired game without them.

What I really want to see is somebody making a professional expansion - with the source code in our hands, I want to see a project with a few additional enemies, new bosses, and maybe even modified weapons. New wall graphics, too - nothing particularly ambitious, but if somebody were to basically make the Spear of Destiny equivalent of ROTT, I know it wouldn't mean much to most gamers today, but it would be a great gift to this little forum here.

Per_Scan · 10-18-2010, 03:45 PM

Yeah, I'd really like to see that too. I wish I had the know-how to even begin to do that but I don't even know how to import a game's palette into a paint program! Just out of curiosity do you have much modding experience?

StoneFrog · 10-18-2010, 07:20 PM

I've actually considered undertaking such a project. I've mapped and coded for Wolfenstein 3D so I'm pretty familiar with the engine tech. Sadly I have a bit of an inferiority complex when it comes to mapping. When I used to map for Doom, I always would give up because it felt like it had too much of a "room corridor room" syndrome. I made a ROTT map recently, and it almost feels like it needs more division between areas! :P

GrimWoman · 10-18-2010, 07:40 PM

You could always make some new weapons, i personally would love to have a shotgun that can replace the mp40.

Per_Scan · 10-19-2010, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StoneFrog

...Sadly I have a bit of an inferiority complex when it comes to mapping. When I used to map for Doom, I always would give up because it felt like it had too much of a "room corridor room" syndrome. I made a ROTT map recently, and it almost feels like it needs more division between areas! :P

You should put it up anyway. Maybe you could get some constructive feedback or maybe even find that you're better than you thought. Besides, it's always nice for us to try out a different map!

What editor do you use for ROTT? I've had a look around for Birger's 3D Editor but it seems to have disappeared from the interwebs!

---------- Post added at 12:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReaperMan

You could always make some new weapons, i personally would love to have a shotgun that can replace the mp40.

Can I ask, how would you go about doing that? If it's not too arcane I'd like to give it a try.

StoneFrog · 10-19-2010, 02:15 PM

Well, I haven't finished up enemy and item placement yet so I don't want to do a closed testing, but this is the map in its entirety. I think it's too cramped, really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Per_Scan

What editor do you use for ROTT? I've had a look around for Birger's 3D Editor but it seems to have disappeared from the interwebs

Birger is a cool story bro, but I've never really cared for his 3D Editor. It's pretty experimental - crashes periodically on my computer, and the control scheme is quite unnatural compared to those used in Doom Builder and Wolf3D's ChaosEdit, and it's crashed periodically on me. Grab Rotted 1.1 from the 3D Realms site! It takes a while to get used to it, but the included help file has a tutorial that should get you acquainted with how to set up most of the game's objects.

Per_Scan · 10-19-2010, 05:21 PM

It doesn't look too cramped to me though it does look a little tighter than the average ROTT map. It's hard to judge too much just from the above image. Is it comparable to any the maps in the original game to give a better idea or is it very much your own design thoughts (if that makes sense!)?

I've grabbed ROTTed and the improved icons. I'm going to start messing with it tomorrow.

GrimWoman · 10-19-2010, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Per_Scan

Can I ask, how would you go about doing that? If it's not too arcane I'd like to give it a try.

I don't know i've never modified ROTT's weapons ever, i don't think anyone has.

Per_Scan · 10-20-2010, 06:06 AM

Yeah, I can't think of any mods that have different weapons. Do you think it would involve changes to the source then?

StoneFrog · 10-20-2010, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Per_Scan

Is it comparable to any the maps in the original game to give a better idea or is it very much your own design thoughts (if that makes sense!)?

Uhh...I wanted to theme each map after an area. Realism usually doesn't work well with these fast paced games.

GrimWoman · 10-20-2010, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Per_Scan

Yeah, I can't think of any mods that have different weapons. Do you think it would involve changes to the source then?

Nah, its probably similar to doom since it uses WADs.

Per_Scan · 10-21-2010, 02:49 AM

I wonder why it's never been done then... I'll have to look into it a little - and maybe annoy some folk in the Doom forums for some pointers!

Dopefish7590 · 10-21-2010, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReaperMan

Nah, its probably similar to doom since it uses WADs.

The WADs are different formats though.

I have tried using a DOOM WAD extractor with ROTT, it doesn't work.

Also, even if it did have the same format, that doesn't mean that changing the things within them would be the same either.

Sorry, but it looks like we'd have to do it on our own.

Per_Scan · 10-21-2010, 07:32 AM

So, presumably it would involve writing our own extraction tools? Or do you think Wadutils could do it? Forgive my ignorance, I'm new to this stuff!

Dopefish7590 · 10-21-2010, 11:07 AM

Well, I'm not sure if there are already extraction tools we could use... But even if we do, it shouldn't be that difficult with code that opens WADs in the ROTT source code, and maybe a more stable version of said code in Win/GLROTT. (With permission of course)

StoneFrog · 10-21-2010, 02:55 PM

ROTT's WADs only store sounds and graphics - game behavior is all intrinsic to the executable, so you'd need to grab the source code off the 3D Realms site and rebuild your own executable to make modifications to weapons and the like. As far as making new WADs are concerned, I do know that Apogee gave the game support for loading replacement graphics in the style of doom. I believe you load them using the "-file" parameter when running the game from the command line?

Don't know how far along programs for making ROTT WADs are, though. There's some old WAD utilities for building new ones, but I've never tried them. There is also Birger's ROTT Multitool which seems to serve the same purpose, but with a graphical interface.

For the record, I know that XWE can open and view graphics in DARKWAR.WAD as well, although I'm not sure if it is capable of saving new files into it or any fanmade archives.

Per_Scan · 10-21-2010, 05:12 PM

I'll have to give it a shot with XWE. At least I know how to use that! And I'll definitely have a look at Birger's Multitool. It's really amazing that I can't find any ROTT maps out there that has any amount of custom textures or sprites or that new weapons have never been made for any... For a game that was so customisable (at least in setting up multiplayer games). I mean, the game was like Skulltag 10 years before Skulltag!! It's amazing the game didn't have longer legs...

Dopefish7590 · 10-21-2010, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StoneFrog

ROTT's WADs only store sounds and graphics - game behavior is all intrinsic to the executable, so you'd need to grab the source code off the 3D Realms site and rebuild your own executable to make modifications to weapons and the like. As far as making new WADs are concerned, I do know that Apogee gave the game support for loading replacement graphics in the style of doom. I believe you load them using the "-file" parameter when running the game from the command line?

Don't know how far along programs for making ROTT WADs are, though. There's some old WAD utilities for building new ones, but I've never tried them. There is also Birger's ROTT Multitool which seems to serve the same purpose, but with a graphical interface.

For the record, I know that XWE can open and view graphics in DARKWAR.WAD as well, although I'm not sure if it is capable of saving new files into it or any fanmade archives.

Ah, thanks for the info.

StoneFrog · 10-21-2010, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Per_Scan

I mean, the game was like Skulltag 10 years before Skulltag!! It's amazing the game didn't have longer legs...

It's because of the damn orthogonal walls. Not to mention that the game's shareware release was immediately eclipsed by Heretic - which I must admit is still my favorite doom engine game, so...

GrimWoman · 10-21-2010, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StoneFrog

... Heretic - which I must admit is still my favorite doom engine game, so...

Strife is my favorite Doom engine game.

Per_Scan · 10-22-2010, 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StoneFrog

It's because of the damn orthogonal walls. Not to mention that the game's shareware release was immediately eclipsed by Heretic - which I must admit is still my favorite doom engine game, so...

Which is pretty ironic considering most modern 'realistic' games make pretty much all their indoors areas orthogonal! So, there you go - ROTT was ahead of it's time in another way - it's 'realistic'! :P

Yeah, Heretic probably killed it too. To carry on the OT: Heretic would be my favourite Doom engine game other than Doom itself. It was the first Id game I got to run smoothly on my beloved Amiga and for that reason will always have a special place in my heart.

*Aww*

10-13-2009, 11:42 PM	#1
Neuro	Rise of the Triad II OK, so what should the sequel to Rise of the Triad be like? Oh, I know. It should be a high-definition remix of it with new maps, kind of like the hi-def Street Fighter remix. At the very core, it would be the same game, but nicer looking and designed with some modern touches.

10-14-2009, 12:26 AM	#2
Glassagate	Re: Rise of the Triad II They had better bring back the 'yawning hand of death'. If it came to the 360, they should make it possible to use that attack by using the Natal. Oh, and at least 2 player co-op. Better make that 4.

03-17-2010, 11:48 AM	#3
Nubwagon	Re: Rise of the Triad II I really don't think they should update too much of it. Of course bring it up to speed with the current FPS technology, but keep the same feel to the game...faster than any other FPS out there! I was talking to a friend of mine the other day about FPS multiplayer games nowadays...MW2 in particular. The problem that I see with it is that there are too many options so most everyone is going to complain that certain weapons/perks/etc are overpowered and unfair. It seems that most of these companies that make these games are out to see how complex and fancy they can make them. How about we keep it simple and even? That's what I loved about the multiplayer in ROTT. Everyone started out with the same weapon and had to fight to pick up a launcher (bazooka, firewall, drunk missle, etc.). But usually the map made it so that other players could pick up a launcher as well & have a joust to see who blows up first. That type of a simple style of play lends itself to the players having more skill. So those with more talent do better. Most gaming companies have lost sight of this and "dumb down" their games so that Billy 8 year old can play & be good at it. I say bring back the simple ROTT style of multiplayer! Yes, and the suggestion of co-op would be great as well. And, of course, make it multiplayer capable over the internet. Ok go! Start making it! __________________ "Work gets in the way of life"

09-20-2010, 10:55 PM	#4
Neuro	Re: Rise of the Triad II F@#K yeah. Yeah, we really need the multiplayer done by Q1 2011. Pronto.

09-20-2010, 11:49 PM	#5
Rapture_Rising	Re: Rise of the Triad II I would love to see ROTT II, i made a thread about this ages ago saying that i would love to see a ROTT reboot in the future. http://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showthread.php?t=36189 __________________ Here we go folks... The rarest creature in nature... The Duketard. I will now approach him very quitely and... Jam my thumb in his butt hole. That should REALLY piss him off!.

09-21-2010, 01:48 AM	#6
KO Gilligan	Re: Rise of the Triad II I made a thread that was a poll of RoTT2 vs ShadowWarrior2 RoTT almost kept up - I voted RoTT, and it was said that Shadow Warrior was off the table legally anyway. Risse of the Triad II would be very awesome.

09-21-2010, 06:19 AM	#7
jbailey	Re: Rise of the Triad II If I understand things properly, some people want a total re-make of rott (or winrottgl) with more modern features and options, while I wouldn't be totally against such a thing, when I started working on rott, my main goal was to: Fix bugs in the code (mostly done) Provide hi-res/opengl support (done) Update the audio code to sound better and provide at least some support for other formats (done) Generally enhance the game with extra menu options (done) The only official thing left that really needs to get done is proper network play (not done). --------------------------- If all the other things that's been mentioned were done, I think winrottgl would lose it's feel, it would be a totally different game in a way even if you kept the original maps in place, but at the same time, it would be interesting to see a rott re-make with all this new stuff. __________________ Download Winrott here: http://www.riseofthetriad.dk/DL_GlROTT.htm jbailey

09-21-2010, 12:22 PM	#8
GrimWoman	Re: Rise of the Triad II I would love to see a Rise Of The Triads 2, it would be great if it mixed old school game-play with modern game-play.

09-23-2010, 08:13 AM	#9
Neuro	Re: Rise of the Triad II The only significant change there should be is a new engine that adds some of Build's features like pseudo-3D floors-over-floors. Otherwise, there ought to be some new guns, items, and enemies. How fun would some new traps and some sort of new jump pad be? The developers, whoever they are, had better stay within the creative realm of the DIP.

09-23-2010, 09:48 AM	#11
GrimWoman	Re: Rise of the Triad II I think a four system weapon system would work well for ROTT II, i don't want a two weapon system like what DNF has.

10-18-2010, 08:57 AM	#12
Per_Scan	Re: Rise of the Triad II Basically, all I want is this: http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php...n+of+the+triad With voxels. Just that would make me a happy, happy chappy! I fear that 'modernising it too much will kill the game's charm. It's a very particular game made by a particular group of inspired (if a little insane!) people from a very particular time in the evolution of the FPS. That's a lot of particulars to replicate!

10-18-2010, 02:46 PM	#13
StoneFrog	Re: Rise of the Triad II I've been following that project, Per_Scan. It's very promising! I'm glad that the mappers are keeping the architecture fairly tame - the view of orthogonal walls has kind of changed over time from being considered a technical constraint to part of the style. Certainly, it wouldn't be a ROTT inspired game without them. What I really want to see is somebody making a professional expansion - with the source code in our hands, I want to see a project with a few additional enemies, new bosses, and maybe even modified weapons. New wall graphics, too - nothing particularly ambitious, but if somebody were to basically make the Spear of Destiny equivalent of ROTT, I know it wouldn't mean much to most gamers today, but it would be a great gift to this little forum here.

10-18-2010, 03:45 PM	#14
Per_Scan	Re: Rise of the Triad II Yeah, I'd really like to see that too. I wish I had the know-how to even begin to do that but I don't even know how to import a game's palette into a paint program! Just out of curiosity do you have much modding experience?

10-18-2010, 07:20 PM	#15
StoneFrog	Re: Rise of the Triad II I've actually considered undertaking such a project. I've mapped and coded for Wolfenstein 3D so I'm pretty familiar with the engine tech. Sadly I have a bit of an inferiority complex when it comes to mapping. When I used to map for Doom, I always would give up because it felt like it had too much of a "room corridor room" syndrome. I made a ROTT map recently, and it almost feels like it needs more division between areas! :P

10-18-2010, 07:40 PM	#16
GrimWoman	Re: Rise of the Triad II You could always make some new weapons, i personally would love to have a shotgun that can replace the mp40.

10-19-2010, 05:21 PM	#19
Per_Scan	Re: Rise of the Triad II It doesn't look too cramped to me though it does look a little tighter than the average ROTT map. It's hard to judge too much just from the above image. Is it comparable to any the maps in the original game to give a better idea or is it very much your own design thoughts (if that makes sense!)? I've grabbed ROTTed and the improved icons. I'm going to start messing with it tomorrow.

10-20-2010, 06:06 AM	#21
Per_Scan	Re: Rise of the Triad II Yeah, I can't think of any mods that have different weapons. Do you think it would involve changes to the source then?

10-21-2010, 02:49 AM	#24
Per_Scan	Re: Rise of the Triad II I wonder why it's never been done then... I'll have to look into it a little - and maybe annoy some folk in the Doom forums for some pointers!

10-21-2010, 07:32 AM	#26
Per_Scan	Re: Rise of the Triad II So, presumably it would involve writing our own extraction tools? Or do you think Wadutils could do it? Forgive my ignorance, I'm new to this stuff!

10-21-2010, 11:07 AM	#27
Dopefish7590	Re: Rise of the Triad II Well, I'm not sure if there are already extraction tools we could use... But even if we do, it shouldn't be that difficult with code that opens WADs in the ROTT source code, and maybe a more stable version of said code in Win/GLROTT. (With permission of course)

10-21-2010, 02:55 PM	#28
StoneFrog	Re: Rise of the Triad II ROTT's WADs only store sounds and graphics - game behavior is all intrinsic to the executable, so you'd need to grab the source code off the 3D Realms site and rebuild your own executable to make modifications to weapons and the like. As far as making new WADs are concerned, I do know that Apogee gave the game support for loading replacement graphics in the style of doom. I believe you load them using the "-file" parameter when running the game from the command line? Don't know how far along programs for making ROTT WADs are, though. There's some old WAD utilities for building new ones, but I've never tried them. There is also Birger's ROTT Multitool which seems to serve the same purpose, but with a graphical interface. For the record, I know that XWE can open and view graphics in DARKWAR.WAD as well, although I'm not sure if it is capable of saving new files into it or any fanmade archives.

10-21-2010, 05:12 PM	#29
Per_Scan	Re: Rise of the Triad II I'll have to give it a shot with XWE. At least I know how to use that! And I'll definitely have a look at Birger's Multitool. It's really amazing that I can't find any ROTT maps out there that has any amount of custom textures or sprites or that new weapons have never been made for any... For a game that was so customisable (at least in setting up multiplayer games). I mean, the game was like Skulltag 10 years before Skulltag!! It's amazing the game didn't have longer legs...