Commander Keen: is he gone forever?

Is Keen gone forever? No hope of resurrecting him? Is that it? "Join Keen and Mortimer McMire battling for the universe." That's it? By the way, when are Keen and Mortimer battling for the universe? Where is ID? How come there are no more Keen games? Is it too "cute"? Or is it becuase it's just a side-scroller? DO SOMETHING! SOMEBODY!

[Joe Siegler]

There will eventually be more Keen, but no one knows when it will happen. Here, read this..

Here's a short history of the Commander Keen games. (Updated May 4, 1998)

First, I'll list all the games and their titles. ALL of them were written by id Software.

1) Marooned on Mars ---\
2) The Earth Explodes | ---> Invasion of the Vorticons
3) Keen Must Die ---/
3.5) Keen Dreams
4) Secret of the Oracle --\__ Goodbye Galaxy
5) The Armageddon Machine --/
6) Aliens Ate My Babysitter

Episodes 1-3 are collectively called "Invasion of the Vorticons", and are published by Apogee Software. This series of Commander Keen was released on December 14th, 1990 according to Tom Hall (Ion Storm), and at the time, Creative Director of id Software.

Episodes 4 & 5 are collectively called "Goodbye Galaxy", and are also published by Apogee Software. This series of Commander Keen was released somewhere around June of 1991. There was also a special CGA edition of Keens 4-5 made. The game is functionally exactly the same as the standard EGA version of the game, but the graphics are in CGA. The CGA version of Keens 4-5 was discontinued by Apogee in November 1997 and is no longer available.

Starting in April of 1998, we bundled Keens 1-5 on a single CD-ROM, and they're only available now like this. If you call up to register one of them, the only way to get it now is to get the others, too.

Episode 6 is a "stand alone" game, and is entitled "Aliens Ate my Babysitter". From its inception in 1991 until 1996, it was distributed by FormGen. In 1996, FormGen was bought out by GT Software, and as such, Apogee was left with only what stock we had at the time of the game. It was never actually an APOGEE game, it was a FormGen game that Apogee distributed. In August of 1997, Apogee's stock of the game finally ran out, and as such, Keen 6 is no longer available from Apogee. As of now, the only way to get Keen 6 now is as part of the package "The id Anthology".(more info later) from GT Software. Two side notes to this: First, for some reason, only the CGA version of Keen 6 is on the CD, and second, for awhile, FormGen distributed a playable 3 level commercial demo of Keen 6.

Keen Dreams has kind of an interesting story. This is referred to as the "Lost Episode" of Commander Keen. I like to think of it as "Keen Episode 3.5". The reason for that is that Keen Dreams falls inbetween Vorticons and Galaxy, both in terms of technology and storyline. Before the id guys actually formed id, the majority of them worked at Softdisk, a computer software publisher in Shreveport, LA. The founding members of id Software left Softdisk to do the Vorticons series of Keen for Apogee Software. However, they were contractually obligated to deliver another game to Softdisk, and since development had started on the Galaxy series, they threw together a Keen game for Softdisk, and Keen Dreams was born. This game is not sold by Apogee Software, nor does Apogee have anything at all to do with it. You'd need to contact Softdisk for any further information regarding Keen Dreams.

Episodes 1, 3.5, 4, and the 3 level demo for Episode 6 are the only ones that you are legally allowed to upload and download anywhere. Episodes 2,3,5, and the full version of Episode 6 are commercial software, and should not appear on any BBS, online service, or should otherwise be sold except for authorized sellers of the games.

In December 1996, id Software published a package called "The id Anthology". This is a product that contained every single game that id Software ever made, as well as some others that were made by id people for other companies like Softdisk. In this package are all 7 Commander Keen games mentioned above. As a side note, for some reason, the person at id Software who put the package together put in only the CGA version of Keen6. Why they did this, we don't know. For more info on the id Anthology, contact id Software (Apogee has nothing to do with the id Anthology.)

Here are the BBS filenames as currently available from Apogee for the various Keen games from Apogee.

Keen 1 -> #1KEEN.ZIP
Keen 4 -> #4KEEN.ZIP
Keen 4 -> #4KEENC.ZIP (Special CGA Version)

I've seen the 3 level Aliens Demo available with the filename #6K-DEMO.ZIP (& K6DEMO.ZIP). I've seen Keen Dreams available with the filename KDREAMS.ZIP. However, neither of these are Apogee products, and I cannot vouch for the files' names.

If you played Keen 5, there was a screen that said something to the effect of "Join us in December 1992 for the greatest Keen adventure yet". There was a picture of Keen smiling, with a Santa Claus hat on. At the time, id Software was intending to do a third series of Commander Keen, tentatively entitled "Commander Keen: The Universe is Toast". However, other projects came up (Wolfenstein 3D, Spear of Destiny, and later, Doom). There are no plans now to do more Keen. The main reason for this is that id Software owns the rights to Commander Keen, and any new project would have to be either done by them directly (EXTREMELY unlikely), or at least approved by them. At this time, there are no Keen games under development by either Apogee, id, or Ion Storm (where Tom Hall & John Romero now work as of 1997). If and when there ever is more Keen, it will be state of the art of whatever technology is current at the time.

Notes:

Commander Keen has made a couple of appearances in other video games:

1) In Paganitzu, Keen's helmet makes an appearance in a hidden area.
2) In Bio Menace Episode 2, as one of the hostages you need to rescue.
3) Four Keens made an appearance in a secret level of id's Doom II.
4) Commander Keen's helmet made an apperance in a level of Crystal Caves.

Joe Siegler
Apogee Software

[Uncle Duke]

You know how the gaming media has done all but issue the official title "Greatest Sidescroller Ever" to Jazz Jackrabbit 2? I think that Keen 7 should be the final Keen game, and it should be the FINAL sidescroller ever (or at least one of the last, and I know it can't be controlled, but still), one that was so insanely addictive and successful that IT was the greatest sidescroller ever. Ports to N64, Playstation, a success so wild that even an arcade version would be released . . . the last in a dying genre, yet a game so great it couldn't be overlooked for the rest of gaming history . . .

Nah. I'm just delusional . . . or am I?

interesting idea. I dont think ANY game should be considered the final word in a genre if better things can be done. Besides, people who set out to make "the best ever" of something usually end up with a substandard product having completely missed the point of their operation by overlooking simple factors. In this case, playability might suffer. The simple ideas are often the best.

[MrEricSir]

NetKeen 2d is out, btw, and it totatly sucks. Same with Keen 2000. Neither are official Apogee or id products.

[Flaose]

I think CK2000 is really ckool, besides, it was made by an ametuer with Klick n' Play (not me though).

I hope that when another Keen game does eventually get made and released it isn't 3d or a game which requires a super pc in order to run it- the great things about the Keen games is simplicity of gameplay, the fact you dont need the most uptodate pc and the fact they're NOT 3d

I think CK sucks, period.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I think CK sucks, period.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

why?

[MrEricSir]

CK2000 sucks - the control on each level is very different. Plus, have you tried to play with a joystick? It doesn't even work in most levels!

As far as CK sucking, it's simple - it doesn't! Keen rules.

Commander Keen is not dead. Just be patient. NetKeen is not bad, its just an engine, a good engine if I may add. Better graphics and scrolling than the originals, IMO.

Geoff
http://www.users.fl.net.au/~simsy/keen/keen.htm

[Flaose]

Please note: CK rules, and is the best sidescroller in the world! And as far as Id is concerned, Keen died in one of the secret levels in DOOM II.

I just hope, that when there will be a new Keen (still hoping at that...), it's not a 3D-game...
I simply hate those...
And for the ''fake'' Keen games, let's not forget that they at least keep the good old Keen feeling alive....I think...

[Thea]

I agree with Gert.. they kinda keep Keen alive, but not in a complete way...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I think CK sucks, period.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correction, McCabe, Commander Keen does not suck!!! period.

I needed to cool off a little after I read that. I wish someone would actually make a good Keen game...at least good enough so it's playable.

[MrEricSir]

Gert, those Keen rip-off's may keep Keen alive, but he'll need a lot of surgery to get him back later. I think it would be better to let him die, and then revive him later (or now, preferably.)

Well, I maybe have some good news.
I mailed Tom Hall about this.
He is willing to make a new Keen Game.
(NOT 3D)
It's only ID who is stopping him.....they
won't give him total control...
So ID is the Bad Guy here....
They still hold the rights to Keen...damn...

C.K. will always Live and if Commander Keen Goes Down So will ID and I will make sure of it! ID will have it out by 2000 or else, but what can I do I am just CK. It's what we can do though that will pull us through. Stand tall and proud, Commander Keen Fans, for only in us will he live!
CK
P.S. McCabe I have mind enough to smack if weren't that there was a monitor, at least 3,000,000 miles of wires between us !!!

ok, uhh, I'm new to this message board, so I don't know how to do anything fancy (like quoting people) so I'm just copying and pasting this:

(From Gert)
Well, I maybe have some good news.
I mailed Tom Hall about this.
He is willing to make a new Keen Game.
(NOT 3D)
It's only ID who is stopping him.....they
won't give him total control...
So ID is the Bad Guy here....
They still hold the rights to Keen...damn...

Ok, I seriously doubt that this is true, wouldn't any company jump at an opportunity to make money? Also, if it is true, Tom Hall should just make the game on his own and show it to id for review. Just seems like common sence to me.

-Steve

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Ok, I seriously doubt that this is true, wouldn't any company jump at an opportunity to make money? Also, if it is true, Tom Hall should just make the game on his own and show it to id for review. Just seems like common sence to me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who are you to doubt Gert. As you said, you are a newbie, and IMO, you shouldn't go around saying things like that. It IS true. Tom just wants to have TOTAL control. He doesn't want to do it under IDs control. Its not really about money, I guess. ID doesn't want to make a new Keen, yet they don't want to let him go, who knows why, but it IS true.

You can even see REAL quotes of this, at my website.

Cerebral Cortex 314
http://www.users.fl.net.au/~simsy/keen/keen.htm

It is under the "Future" Section.

PS: Hope this UBB code stuff works..!

Thanx to Geoff!

And for the newby.....we don't post
rumours around here.
BTW: still no reply from ID!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>BTW: still no reply from ID!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gert, I have sent MANY, MANY messages to ID over the past year, haven't revieved 1 reply.. <sigh>.

[Joe Siegler]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Gert, I have sent MANY, MANY messages to ID over the past year, haven't revieved 1 reply..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't count on it. Id will never do another Keen game. Period. They're just not interested. Bothering id won't do any good.

------------------
Joe Siegler
3D Realms Entertainment
http://www.3drealms.com

Joe,

Yeah, this is all true, but they could at least have the decency to reply. I mean, Tom Hall, John Romero, and yourself, all reply to messages promptly. Why can't they? How about if newcomers to the Keen-Scene innocently ask (not bother), they do not deserve to be ignroed!

Hehehe...
I just did send a "sort of mad"-mail to
ID.
Well, wait and see what happens...
Hope they will answer sometime.

[The Borg]

what makes you think these people care to answer at all???

I find that they don't seem to generally respond to most messages sent to them nowadays.

It's the difference in employees that are employed there now and the ones employed there before.

As you know though, when people don't respond to your messages, you almost take it personally, like they're ignoring you.

At the same time though, remember that they are developers and can't spend all day e-mailing.

------------------
www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/2407/
Dopefish!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>At the same time though, remember that they are developers and can't spend all day e-mailing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but the guys at IonStorm, and Apogee, and many others I know, still email back to every message, promptly as well. Why can't they? They obviously don't value their customers..

I never muched liked Keen, it's a weak game, even by 1990-1992 standards.

[MrEricSir]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I never muched liked Keen, it's a weak game, even by 1990-1992 standards.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you're talking about the technology, yes, it was "weak" in that respect. But most people didn't have VGA monitors at that time. They were too expensive, and they'd have to update their graphics cards as well.

So unlike today's games, Keen was made for the computers people had, not top of the line machines.

[Uncle Duke]

Look, guys, his name is a space! How incredibly clever . . . or inanely stupid that he can't think of a screen name, and he's too cowardly to give his real name . . .

------------------
Uncle Duke
[email protected]
3D Realms BB Members FAQ

[Swingball]

Keen still lives in the hearts of all the gamers who made it. If ID wants to hold on to it, I say let them. it's their choice. As much as I'd like to see Keen make a glorious return, I don't think It's likely that ID will release it for Apogee to make. They would rather make it themsleves and get money off of it, than let their rivals make it and get money off of it. It's a corrupt world, and ID is a part of it, just like all the rest. Thanx ppl at 3drealms who put customers first. That's why I come back to you time and again for great games. 3drealms RULES!!!


------------------
<((Swingball))>
"The Magic that Holds the sky up from the ground"

[X-human]

Why are people digging up these old threads?

------------------
The One and Only -=[X-human]=-
GZ News
BJ's hideout
Dopefish Cult

"Does this bug you I'm not touching you"

Keen was not a weak game. Compared to other games back then, Keen ruled.

------------------
Tom Bailey,
Keenmaster,
Quest of Commander Keen-
http://www.angelfire.com/pq/quest/index.html
Go there- I DARE you.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Why are people digging up these old threads?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Seriously! That thing was last replyed to in November!

Heck there are so many keen fans out there that keep keen alive.Keen will always live.
and:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I think CK sucks, period.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
this spells L-E-W-Z-E-R !!!!!!

KEEN IS ONLY THE BEST GAME IN THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD NOT TO MENTION UNIVERSE.KEEN ROCKS THE HOUSE BABY!!!!!! KEEN IS AWESOME SO ALL THESE NEW FIRST PERSON SHOOTERS CAN CURL UP AND DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thankyou.thankyou.thankyou.
ok i'll sit down now.

------------------
M o o ~ C K ~ 1
http://www.angelfire.com/id/moo7
"My dog ate my sourcecode."--Fnord!

MooKeen has made a good point.
*clapclapclap*

------------------
Tom Bailey,
Keenmaster,
Quest of Commander Keen-
http://www.angelfire.com/pq/quest/index.html
Go there- I DARE you.

If anyone wants to talk to John Romero in person (well sorta), his ICQ UIN is 18228384.

------------------
Name: Simon Broadhead
Age: 11
Address: Why would I tell you that?
No I mean E-Mail Address: Oh.
So What is it? [email protected]

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>ALL THESE NEW FIRST PERSON SHOOTERS CAN CURL UP AND DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Interesting...care to say why you feel that way?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>ok i'll sit down now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, please do. You'll probably feel better.


[This message has been edited by Gleamer (edited 07-20-1999).]

[Scotty]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Why are people digging up these old threads?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Seriously! That thing was last replyed to in November!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Just because something was discussed in the past, doesn't make it irrelevant in the present or the future. If you look around the rest of the Board, nearly everything older than 3 months has been killed off to keep things at a manageable level.

A year ago when I first started reading this Board, people still played Duke3D, and there were lots of discussions about best song, best enemy, etc. Now, there are just a lot of people flaming about 3DR not releasing the sourcecode, and DNF taking too long.

If all the old threads get locked or killed (as you once suggested), then this forum will be like the rest of them. The only thing that will be left is people flaming Id for not doing another Keen game, flaming 3DR for misplacing the sourcecode to ROTT, etc, ad nauseam.

-Scotty

...be careful what you wish, you may regret it, be careful what you wish, you just might get it...