Take-Two's profits down-blame Max Payne - Page 2

Yenz · 02-03-2004, 12:21 PM

I think Take Two should change the way they talk about their games. I mean who wants to have a publisher that bashing it's games.
George said it so good before (as my avatar says).
If a good game sells bad it's not the gamemakers fault it's the publishers fault. They faild in selling the game (commersials and so on).

cyborg · 02-03-2004, 12:23 PM

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Cause they are unbrakable.. and you can't burn them?

Nonsense. I've yet to see any copyprotection of any type of any type of physical fuxoring prevent piracy. If there was a surefire way everyone would be using it.

crunchy superman · 02-03-2004, 12:28 PM

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I think it didn't sell a lot, cause P2P are becomming too popular and same thing as warez sites.. and you can get it free from there. I payed $70CDN my copy and the other day my friend had just took it down from kazaa.. I wanted to kick his ass so hard! Anyway I was happy of my purchase!

If that was the case how come other games sell millions of copys surely they can be downloaded as well.

Cause they are unbrakable.. and you can't burn them?

No such thing.

Yenz · 02-03-2004, 12:34 PM

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I've yet to see any copyprotection of any type of any type of physical fuxoring prevent piracy

One word Pro Tools

(thou it's not a game. But the LE verison was hacked abit for some years ago).
I also think that if you put out a game on like 3 dvds and so on, then it would be too much to download (right now anyway, unless you have 10 mbit line or more).

DLT · 02-03-2004, 12:47 PM

what would you fill these dvds with random junk?people would just repack them and warez them anyway and I dont like the idea of games taking up over 10 gig of my hd.

Hudson · 02-03-2004, 12:51 PM

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Cause they are unbrakable.. and you can't burn them?

Nonsense. I've yet to see any copyprotection of any type of any type of physical fuxoring prevent piracy. If there was a surefire way everyone would be using it.

Exactly. Even mighty microsoft admitted there is no way to stop piracy.

Its say.. 250,000 software security engineers vs. 25 million hackers. Some contest

Its like France vs. the LAPD.

Wamplet · 02-03-2004, 12:53 PM

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not really

The biggest fault with Max Payne 2 is that it's not really worth 50 dollars.

Agreed. The game was great, but for 50 hours, I would have expected a bit more out of it.

For a non-multiplayer game, it would be nice for them to lower the price to 30 dollars. I'd bet more people wouldn't be so hesitant to buy it then.

EDIT: I meant 50 gold, but the damage has been done and it will be more amusing to leave the message in it's pristine, yet, butchered form.

Dr.Dude · 02-03-2004, 01:00 PM

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Agreed. The game was great, but for 50 hours, I would have expected a bit more out of it.

Ha ha. Mess up. Ha ha.

It seems obvious that the short length that was mentioned in every review must have been a major cause for this. Of course, for me it was longer than the first game...probably because I spent so much time diving into boxes and knocking them down ledges and stairs.

Wamplet · 02-03-2004, 01:13 PM

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Agreed. The game was great, but for 50 hours, I would have expected a bit more out of it.

Ha ha. Mess up. Ha ha.

OH DEAR! I shall forever be engraved in my very own hall of shame trophy.

Yeah, 50 hours, the god damn game would just NOT END!

Drazula · 02-03-2004, 01:25 PM

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Cause they are unbrakable.. and you can't burn them?

Nonsense. I've yet to see any copyprotection of any type of any type of physical fuxoring prevent piracy. If there was a surefire way everyone would be using it.

Agree. Piracy is not to blame. It takes away from every game.

The problem is: if you are going to make a game that is budget length, it needs to be budget priced. PERIOD! That was the FALL of Max Payne.

John Mirra · 02-03-2004, 01:45 PM

MP2's problem is that it was a very competent, but ultimately unsatisfying, sequel. The lenght, for one, was incredibly small. The original took me much longer to finish. The story took its pace, too, carefully developing characters and situations. I was horribly disappointed with the sequel, in how it handled the cast (bringing back the supposedly dead and turning a good character into a forced villain), not to mention that the story just didn't had that much of an impact (i daresay that the story this time around wasn't as good as the prequel). This game felt like a rushed attempt that tried to capitalize on the franchise. The gameplay remained largely the same, with few additions that added little to nothing. The first title felt much more compelling and much more of an honest attempt at game creating - and perhaps because of that it comes as no surprise that such an unknown game got so much praise back then. I can't for the life of me say the same of the second. I like it, no doubt, but i can't help but think if more attention to it had been given. Another aspect that was a serious letdown was the overal lack of difficulty. Aside the instances where one has to protect NPCs, it felt quite "meh".

Other factors also include game piracy (its always there, its undeniable, no matter if high or low), the lack of multiplayer, and a market saturated with this kind of game. In the end, its a shorter game with largely the same gameplay, for a high price.

Ivan · 02-03-2004, 01:50 PM

Was this tread moved? Thought is was in General Gaming.. Mmmm anyway! I still think it is because of P2P and stupid warez sites!

biXen · 02-03-2004, 02:13 PM

What a shock to see Drazula here

I think this game has three big marketing problems.

1. The fact that it IS short was shown in every review, but we all know it's still a great game, and I can't find many other games that's not a RPG or so that deserves more hours of gaming, but combined with Rockstar's high game prices it's a killer.

2. The marketing for the console versions didn't seem to good to me, I think in some ways Max Payne is very much seen as a PC game, although I think the next one might be some console(s) only, one never knows.

3. The PS2 version lacked bad, it had far less attractive graphics, it just hasn't got the hardware for a game with the emphasis on photo-realistic textures. Besides it's less worth the high prices on consoles since there's no mods and IMO worse controls.

btw: This is some days old already, and besides, if Take 2 earns $500 million or $300 million means less when they've paid many many millions for a franchise they want to make big. I believe they'll go back on top soon. It's sad to say Mafia did disappoint back then too saleswise, it was an excellent game.

John Mirra · 02-03-2004, 02:22 PM

True, the PS2 is actually the worst console in terms of processing power. Its a wonder MP2 runs in it, at all.

As for the length, i go the opposite way: i don't see a reason why games other than RPGs have to be incredibly short; and in this case, MP2's small length coupled with marginally the same gameplay (at a high proce) ended up being a bad point for many people.

Wamplet · 02-03-2004, 03:08 PM

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In the end, its a shorter game with largely the same gameplay, for a high price.

I buy that, but doubt I will be buying MP3.

Drazula, good one liner.

biXen · 02-03-2004, 03:24 PM

But you are forgetting what I and many others love about Max Payne 1 and 2. They get rid of all the unnecessary boring riddle and keyfinding crap that never works well except in games like Silent Hill. Max Payne are one of the few games I bother playing through, just cause it's always pushing me forward and is fast-paced. It's like a 10 hour great movie, and I think it's pretty damn replayable to be honest. But still, I can see why some people feel it's not.

John Mirra · 02-03-2004, 04:50 PM

When did what you and and many others love about Max Payne 1 and 2 came into the discussion regarding game length? I didn't even questioned your or others' preference of game lenghts, i just pointed out i looked at game lenght in a different way. Its not like i was "forgetting" what you and others think, i wasn't even considering it as point in the first place.

biXen · 02-03-2004, 05:54 PM

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When did what you and and many others love about Max Payne 1 and 2 came into the discussion regarding game length?

When it's directly related to the length, genius. They could easily make it longer if they did what I pointed out they didn't (and that's why one shouldn't put length as a reason not to buy it if you instead are gonna buy a longer game that's more boring to go halfway through), if you aren't gonna read my sentences, don't answer them, besides I wasn't talking specifically to you mr. ego boy so chill your nuts.

Scream · 02-03-2004, 06:24 PM

Boys, boys, play nice.

Interesting twist. It appears as if some are pointing to mismanagement at Take Two as the source of all their problems.

Story...

Drazula · 02-03-2004, 06:43 PM

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What a shock to see Drazula here

What the hell does that mean? Are you insinuating that I am exercising some kind of "I told you so"? I assure you I am not. But I could.

biXen · 02-04-2004, 01:19 AM

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What a shock to see Drazula here

What the hell does that mean? Are you insinuating that I am exercising some kind of "I told you so"? I assure you I am not. But I could.

No, it's more that if someone is unhappy about something I expect to find you first in line, eventhough there's nothing to be unhappy about

John Mirra · 02-04-2004, 06:01 AM

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besides I wasn't talking specifically to you mr. ego boy so chill your nuts.

I am the ego boy? This coming from you is a joke.

Drazula · 02-04-2004, 07:13 AM

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What a shock to see Drazula here

What the hell does that mean? Are you insinuating that I am exercising some kind of "I told you so"? I assure you I am not. But I could.

No, it's more that if someone is unhappy about something I expect to find you first in line, eventhough there's nothing to be unhappy about

It could be the end of the line for Max Payne. Isn't that something to be unhappy about?

biXen · 02-04-2004, 07:43 AM

Erm... Tomb Raider, one good game. One decent, 2 or 3 crap ones, 2 movies which is ok if you like action but nothing more. Still some of the most known brand out there.

Max Payne, actually has a story, much more gritty, more action, potential to actually be a good movie. Pretty easy to make a game which is just as good, hard to make one which is much better than the original. I think it's obvious what will happen. Nothing. But they might spend some more time on it, lower their expectations, ditch PS2 or PC, whatever, something they'll probably do, but they didn't pay $xx millions to ditch it cause it didn't sell as astronomically as some accountant dude thought.

John Mirra: nm, in a general consensus we don't disagree so taking this further would be dragging it through the mud.

John Mirra · 02-04-2004, 07:52 AM

Quote:

John Mirra: nm, in a general consensus we don't disagree so taking this further would be dragging it through the mud.

I fully agree, so it would be best to stop; and the next time, use better judgement of people, instead of making assumptions like those.

Aegeri · 02-04-2004, 08:49 AM

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I'm confused here! Did the PC version of Max Payne sell poorly or the console version sold poorly? Or is Take Two looking at Max Payne in one view point(for all platforms)?

I was talking about Deus Ex 2, I haven't much of an idea how Max Payne 2 sold overall. It probably didn't do that badly overall, though who can tell these days.

Qtipie · 02-04-2004, 09:29 AM

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I don't have anything against Max Payne, quite the contrary, it's my very utmost favorite game ever

Then I wouldn't laugh about this. If max payne isn't selling like take two wants it to, they won't make any more max payne games. As far as I know, they have that power since they own the franchise rights to max payne.

exactly, and they payed shitloads of money to get them in the first place so what sense would it make to stop it all? show me one company (gaming industry or anything else) that doesn't whine about the current market situation and decreasing returns.

mp2 was a decent game and a good sequel. it's only problem was that everyone expected it to top its predecessor and that was almost impossible imo. mp is my fave game and i doubt any other could ever come close. yet mp2 was as good as a follow-up could be. sure a bit short, but everyone complained about the length of mp too and in the end it didn't affect its success. you can find a fault with everything and somebody/-thing needs to be blamed for the lack of success. i don't give a damn about this. if someone had confronted me to choose only one game in 2003 i would have waited for mp2.

Scream · 02-04-2004, 04:37 PM

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Erm... Tomb Raider, one good game. One decent, 2 or 3 crap ones, 2 movies which is ok if you like action but nothing more. Still some of the most known brand out there.

No comparison. Max Payne hasn't sold anywhere near as many copies, isn't anywhere near as heavily embedded in other merchandise, and will never be close to Tomb Raider as far as brands go. It has nothing to do with the quality of the games. It has to do with the fact that Max Payne is about a tough New York male cop, which has been done to death a million times, and Tomb Raider is about a female Indiana Jones/James Bond with big boobs, which is, or at least was, relatively original.

I mean, seriously, what exactly is compelling or original about the character Max Payne? New York cop who goes vigilante after his family is killed by mobsters? Old old old. The first game sold because the game was decent and the bullet-time concept was novel. Don't get me wrong, as I enjoyed it. However, for me at least it didn't create a character that was in any way compelling or interesting. I don't see much to carry this franchise much further. We've seen this all before in any number of popular media formats.

Even Tomb Raider has fallen out of favour, as the novelty has worn off and it's become somewhat of a parody of itself. But at least at it's inception it was fresh, regardless of anyone's opinion on the quality of the games.

biXen · 02-05-2004, 01:29 AM

Wrong wrong wrong and wrong. Max Payne is as fresh as it get's in gaming, and apart from Mario, Lara Croft and Duke Nukem might be the biggest character in games today. We've seen it all in movies, yes, but movies have NOTHING to do with this until they make one, and even then it doesn't matter, because people will see it just because it's Max Payne. The fact that Mona is a lot sexier than Lara Croft can also come into play if it's needed. Max Payne as a game is pretty unique in the gaming world, and it's the first game that actually would transfer well into a movie, but it would still probably be cheesy as hell. The only problems with games-> movies is that the dumbasses making the movies spend a billion dollar on it and think it's gonna sell more, dream on.

Mixa · 02-05-2004, 02:43 AM

Hmm. Have you ever thought why max payne 2 wasn't so good like mp1 was. well I think that they (rmd) had too tight deadline, because they probably were in little bit in a hurry

. but they repair damages in mp3

Or
Maybe mp2 is long game, you aren't seeing the facts. there is something new in doa....

.
(you could use your skills to improve the plot or make new levels

)

mp2 is a worth of 50 $... are you so poor?

TAKE 2 F***ed up the marketing, indeed thats the main reason

Scream · 02-05-2004, 06:43 AM

Well, I'm sorry. I don't mean to piss on anyone's favourite game. As a game, Max Payne was decent from a gameplay perspective, and was original in it's presentation (graphic novel). However, the storyline was a rehash of Dirty Harry meets Death Wish. There was zero original about the storyline, if you take into account all popular media (which I think you have to when you're talking storyline). Max Payne would make another boring Hollywood piece of crap action movie with an instantly forgettable character. As far as I'm concerned, Max Payne didn't have a story. It had a concept (vigilante cop taking out the thugs that killed his family). That is not a story. That is the starting point for a story.

Games are held to a different standard when it comes to story. I truly wish that weren't the case. What would be considered rehashed pulp in a movie is lauded as brilliant story-telling in a game. This is true of at least action games like Max Payne anyway. Adventure games like Grim Fandango and The Longest Journey are the exceptions, but they don't sell well. The problem is that it is very difficult to tell a decent story, without being completely linear, which is viewed as a fault in a game. So, perhaps it is simply the nature of the beast.

Remember interactive movies like "Under a Killing Moon" and "Phantasmagoria"? They fell out of favour, as even though they had a few paths you could go down, people felt they didn't have enough control over what happened. Gameplay sacrificed for the sake of story. Hell, people even complain that games like Metal Gear Solid 2 spend too much time in cutscenes. It is difficult to advance story during gameplay, but what people want in a game is good gameplay. That is, after-all, why it's a game and not a movie.

I guess that's why I prefer games that don't even make an attempt at a story. Duke Nukem 3D, and most likely Duke Nukem Forever are prime examples. Aliens invading Earth. One guy saves the planet, blowing up a lot of shit along the way. That's your entire story. It doesn't pretend to be anything else. Gives you the fast paced fun an action game should provide, and that is good enough.

Anyway, Max Payne, if it was in any way true to the game, would make a very run of the mill forgettable movie. Doesn't mean it's not a good game. Not everything can translate between the two mediums. Amadeus is one of my favourite movies, but I wouldn't be buying the game if they made it.

biXen · 02-05-2004, 07:40 AM

Scream: ok, first, have you got a birthday today? If so congrats.

Second. Yeah, I don't disagree with most of what you said there, but I think things are a bit different really. I do think Max Payne has a story, an incredibly cheesy and weird story, that could end up as something like Death Wish, Payback or Dirty Harry, but I think it has more potential. Max Payne has a lot of humor and irony of it's own genre, and I think it's story telling is very unique. Coupled with a director like the one of Requiem for a Dream or so it could be one hell of a movie. (I took that movie as an example because I think it's good at showing how people get ****** up in their mind).

I think Max Payne has a strong something, not sure if I wanna call it story, but maybe theme or setting. I could imagine this movie in so many ways, hell I feel like making it now

But you are right in most of your stuff simply because this movie would never end up like that most likely. Well I think no matter what we say here it would end up in the fact that it depends on director and how much money is in it. But I do think it has a story potential, even as a movie, it depends if it just uses the theme, or starts off in MP1. Duke 3D has character though, but it's a good example of how we don't care about a story if the game is good enough. Duke3d might be my most played game ever, and best multiplayer game ever for me. But it wouldn't be the same without Duke having personality.

Dr.Dude · 02-05-2004, 07:45 AM

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Coupled with a director like the one of Requiem for a Dream or so it could be one hell of a movie.

Darren Aronofsky.

I agree that he'd be great for directing the Max Payne movie, actually.

Wamplet · 02-05-2004, 09:01 AM

I think Tomb Raider is a wonderful example of how you can run a franchise straight into the gutter.

Scotty · 03-14-2004, 05:54 PM

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Take Two had lower than expected earnings, and cite both the slip of Mafia for the consoles to 2nd quarter, and lower than expected earnings for Max Payne 2 as the major reasons.

Story...

Quote:

Quoted from Max Payne 3 Announced! thread:

Taken from Deep Six:

Jeffrey Lapin, CEO at Take 2 confirmed at Bear-Stearns 17th Annual Media, Entertainment and Information Conference this morning that Max Payne 3 is on the way!

They said that even though Max Payne 2 did not meet their expectations, the brand was well known enough and that there will be a third game in the series, although it will be a few years before it comes out.

So there you have it everyone! Max Payne’s journey into the night will continue.

Thanks to HomeLan Fed for the news and you can also listen to the conference over at Bear-Stearns' site here:

http://www.bearstearns.com/conferences/media2004/

Click Web Cast then listen to the Take-Two Interactive Software stream.

Sorry to bump an old thread, but this is maybe my third time on the forums since December, and is the first I've heard of this...

I just listened to the above webcast.

Although Jeffrey Lapin gave the sales figures for MP1 (3.5-4 million units), he said MP2 did poorly against their expectations.

He did not give any actual figures.

He also said MP2 released in November (the PC version released in October, I know, I bought a new system just in time for MP2

) and that it sold comparably to or better than average PS2 releases.

Is the main reason for Take-Two's tarring and feathering of MP2 because of its console sales?

Most of what I saw in this thread concerned length (which would affect both PC and console versions, and could also cause ppl to rent the console version rather than buy the PC version) and multiplayer (primarily affects PC version)

03-15-2004, 09:58 AM

The first Max Payne sol more than 1Million copies?! WTF?!

rado907 · 03-26-2004, 12:00 AM

Stupid.
Max Payne 2 was the definitive game of 2003... Perfect in every respect.
And it doesn't sell...

0marTheZealot · 03-26-2004, 07:56 AM

if you remove the graphic novel, you can beat the game in about 2 hours....

i don't know, maybe that has some affect on the game's sales

mp2 was a good game, but it was too expensive (unfortunately, not everyone can justify paying 50 bucks for a couple hours of gaming) for what it offered. MP1 w/ better graphics and shorter gameplay. There was absolutely nothing different in the sequel from the first game.

I love MP1, but I couldn't bring myself to buy a new copy of MP2, simply because it wasn't worth 50 bucks from every review I read. That's why I bought it used.

03-15-2004, 09:58 AM	#76
Karthik Guest	Re: Take-Two\'s profits down-blame Max Payne The first Max Payne sol more than 1Million copies?! WTF?!

02-03-2004, 12:21 PM	#41
Yenz	Re: This thread has nothing to do with T I think Take Two should change the way they talk about their games. I mean who wants to have a publisher that bashing it's games. George said it so good before (as my avatar says). If a good game sells bad it's not the gamemakers fault it's the publishers fault. They faild in selling the game (commersials and so on). __________________ www.penaltyofheroes.com http://blog.penaltyofheroes.com/ www.databoxgames.com

02-03-2004, 12:47 PM	#45
DLT	Re: This thread has nothing to do with T what would you fill these dvds with random junk?people would just repack them and warez them anyway and I dont like the idea of games taking up over 10 gig of my hd. __________________ The hunt is on!!

02-03-2004, 01:45 PM	#51
John Mirra	I put on my robe and wizard hat. MP2's problem is that it was a very competent, but ultimately unsatisfying, sequel. The lenght, for one, was incredibly small. The original took me much longer to finish. The story took its pace, too, carefully developing characters and situations. I was horribly disappointed with the sequel, in how it handled the cast (bringing back the supposedly dead and turning a good character into a forced villain), not to mention that the story just didn't had that much of an impact (i daresay that the story this time around wasn't as good as the prequel). This game felt like a rushed attempt that tried to capitalize on the franchise. The gameplay remained largely the same, with few additions that added little to nothing. The first title felt much more compelling and much more of an honest attempt at game creating - and perhaps because of that it comes as no surprise that such an unknown game got so much praise back then. I can't for the life of me say the same of the second. I like it, no doubt, but i can't help but think if more attention to it had been given. Another aspect that was a serious letdown was the overal lack of difficulty. Aside the instances where one has to protect NPCs, it felt quite "meh". Other factors also include game piracy (its always there, its undeniable, no matter if high or low), the lack of multiplayer, and a market saturated with this kind of game. In the end, its a shorter game with largely the same gameplay, for a high price. __________________ "....And this world's smartest man means no more to me than does its smartest termite."

02-03-2004, 01:50 PM	#52
Ivan	Re: I put on my robe and wizard hat. Was this tread moved? Thought is was in General Gaming.. Mmmm anyway! I still think it is because of P2P and stupid warez sites!

02-03-2004, 02:13 PM	#53
biXen	Re: I put on my robe and wizard hat. What a shock to see Drazula here I think this game has three big marketing problems. 1. The fact that it IS short was shown in every review, but we all know it's still a great game, and I can't find many other games that's not a RPG or so that deserves more hours of gaming, but combined with Rockstar's high game prices it's a killer. 2. The marketing for the console versions didn't seem to good to me, I think in some ways Max Payne is very much seen as a PC game, although I think the next one might be some console(s) only, one never knows. 3. The PS2 version lacked bad, it had far less attractive graphics, it just hasn't got the hardware for a game with the emphasis on photo-realistic textures. Besides it's less worth the high prices on consoles since there's no mods and IMO worse controls. btw: This is some days old already, and besides, if Take 2 earns $500 million or $300 million means less when they've paid many many millions for a franchise they want to make big. I believe they'll go back on top soon. It's sad to say Mafia did disappoint back then too saleswise, it was an excellent game. __________________ bee-digital - my new web dev blog Max Payne fan site Alan Wake fan site

02-03-2004, 02:22 PM	#54
John Mirra	Re: I put on my robe and wizard hat. True, the PS2 is actually the worst console in terms of processing power. Its a wonder MP2 runs in it, at all. As for the length, i go the opposite way: i don't see a reason why games other than RPGs have to be incredibly short; and in this case, MP2's small length coupled with marginally the same gameplay (at a high proce) ended up being a bad point for many people. __________________ "....And this world's smartest man means no more to me than does its smartest termite."

02-03-2004, 03:24 PM	#56
biXen	Re: I put on my robe and wizard hat. But you are forgetting what I and many others love about Max Payne 1 and 2. They get rid of all the unnecessary boring riddle and keyfinding crap that never works well except in games like Silent Hill. Max Payne are one of the few games I bother playing through, just cause it's always pushing me forward and is fast-paced. It's like a 10 hour great movie, and I think it's pretty damn replayable to be honest. But still, I can see why some people feel it's not. __________________ bee-digital - my new web dev blog Max Payne fan site Alan Wake fan site

02-03-2004, 04:50 PM	#57
John Mirra	Thank you mistress. May i have another? When did what you and and many others love about Max Payne 1 and 2 came into the discussion regarding game length? I didn't even questioned your or others' preference of game lenghts, i just pointed out i looked at game lenght in a different way. Its not like i was "forgetting" what you and others think, i wasn't even considering it as point in the first place. __________________ "....And this world's smartest man means no more to me than does its smartest termite."

02-03-2004, 06:24 PM	#59
Scream	Re: Thank you mistress. May i have anoth Boys, boys, play nice. Interesting twist. It appears as if some are pointing to mismanagement at Take Two as the source of all their problems. Story... __________________ This forum is filled with idiots now. - John Everything. Everyone. Everywhere. Ends.

02-04-2004, 07:43 AM	#64
biXen	Re: I put on my robe and wizard hat. Erm... Tomb Raider, one good game. One decent, 2 or 3 crap ones, 2 movies which is ok if you like action but nothing more. Still some of the most known brand out there. Max Payne, actually has a story, much more gritty, more action, potential to actually be a good movie. Pretty easy to make a game which is just as good, hard to make one which is much better than the original. I think it's obvious what will happen. Nothing. But they might spend some more time on it, lower their expectations, ditch PS2 or PC, whatever, something they'll probably do, but they didn't pay $xx millions to ditch it cause it didn't sell as astronomically as some accountant dude thought. John Mirra: nm, in a general consensus we don't disagree so taking this further would be dragging it through the mud. __________________ bee-digital - my new web dev blog Max Payne fan site Alan Wake fan site

02-05-2004, 01:29 AM	#69
biXen	Re: I put on my robe and wizard hat. Wrong wrong wrong and wrong. Max Payne is as fresh as it get's in gaming, and apart from Mario, Lara Croft and Duke Nukem might be the biggest character in games today. We've seen it all in movies, yes, but movies have NOTHING to do with this until they make one, and even then it doesn't matter, because people will see it just because it's Max Payne. The fact that Mona is a lot sexier than Lara Croft can also come into play if it's needed. Max Payne as a game is pretty unique in the gaming world, and it's the first game that actually would transfer well into a movie, but it would still probably be cheesy as hell. The only problems with games-> movies is that the dumbasses making the movies spend a billion dollar on it and think it's gonna sell more, dream on. __________________ bee-digital - my new web dev blog Max Payne fan site Alan Wake fan site

02-05-2004, 02:43 AM	#70
Mixa	Re: I put on my robe and wizard hat. Hmm. Have you ever thought why max payne 2 wasn't so good like mp1 was. well I think that they (rmd) had too tight deadline, because they probably were in little bit in a hurry . but they repair damages in mp3 Or Maybe mp2 is long game, you aren't seeing the facts. there is something new in doa.... . (you could use your skills to improve the plot or make new levels ) mp2 is a worth of 50 $... are you so poor? TAKE 2 F***ed up the marketing, indeed thats the main reason __________________ Have no fear, Mixa is here.

02-05-2004, 06:43 AM	#71
Scream	Re: I put on my robe and wizard hat. Well, I'm sorry. I don't mean to piss on anyone's favourite game. As a game, Max Payne was decent from a gameplay perspective, and was original in it's presentation (graphic novel). However, the storyline was a rehash of Dirty Harry meets Death Wish. There was zero original about the storyline, if you take into account all popular media (which I think you have to when you're talking storyline). Max Payne would make another boring Hollywood piece of crap action movie with an instantly forgettable character. As far as I'm concerned, Max Payne didn't have a story. It had a concept (vigilante cop taking out the thugs that killed his family). That is not a story. That is the starting point for a story. Games are held to a different standard when it comes to story. I truly wish that weren't the case. What would be considered rehashed pulp in a movie is lauded as brilliant story-telling in a game. This is true of at least action games like Max Payne anyway. Adventure games like Grim Fandango and The Longest Journey are the exceptions, but they don't sell well. The problem is that it is very difficult to tell a decent story, without being completely linear, which is viewed as a fault in a game. So, perhaps it is simply the nature of the beast. Remember interactive movies like "Under a Killing Moon" and "Phantasmagoria"? They fell out of favour, as even though they had a few paths you could go down, people felt they didn't have enough control over what happened. Gameplay sacrificed for the sake of story. Hell, people even complain that games like Metal Gear Solid 2 spend too much time in cutscenes. It is difficult to advance story during gameplay, but what people want in a game is good gameplay. That is, after-all, why it's a game and not a movie. I guess that's why I prefer games that don't even make an attempt at a story. Duke Nukem 3D, and most likely Duke Nukem Forever are prime examples. Aliens invading Earth. One guy saves the planet, blowing up a lot of shit along the way. That's your entire story. It doesn't pretend to be anything else. Gives you the fast paced fun an action game should provide, and that is good enough. Anyway, Max Payne, if it was in any way true to the game, would make a very run of the mill forgettable movie. Doesn't mean it's not a good game. Not everything can translate between the two mediums. Amadeus is one of my favourite movies, but I wouldn't be buying the game if they made it. __________________ This forum is filled with idiots now. - John Everything. Everyone. Everywhere. Ends.

02-05-2004, 07:40 AM	#72
biXen	Re: I put on my robe and wizard hat. Scream: ok, first, have you got a birthday today? If so congrats. Second. Yeah, I don't disagree with most of what you said there, but I think things are a bit different really. I do think Max Payne has a story, an incredibly cheesy and weird story, that could end up as something like Death Wish, Payback or Dirty Harry, but I think it has more potential. Max Payne has a lot of humor and irony of it's own genre, and I think it's story telling is very unique. Coupled with a director like the one of Requiem for a Dream or so it could be one hell of a movie. (I took that movie as an example because I think it's good at showing how people get ****** up in their mind). I think Max Payne has a strong something, not sure if I wanna call it story, but maybe theme or setting. I could imagine this movie in so many ways, hell I feel like making it now But you are right in most of your stuff simply because this movie would never end up like that most likely. Well I think no matter what we say here it would end up in the fact that it depends on director and how much money is in it. But I do think it has a story potential, even as a movie, it depends if it just uses the theme, or starts off in MP1. Duke 3D has character though, but it's a good example of how we don't care about a story if the game is good enough. Duke3d might be my most played game ever, and best multiplayer game ever for me. But it wouldn't be the same without Duke having personality. __________________ bee-digital - my new web dev blog Max Payne fan site Alan Wake fan site

02-05-2004, 09:01 AM	#74
Wamplet	Re: I put on my robe and wizard hat. I think Tomb Raider is a wonderful example of how you can run a franchise straight into the gutter. __________________ "IT'S HUGE!!!!" -chimera I think it's a 17"... or maybe it's a 19"..... it's huge... and bulky! but it has served me quite well -Mariamus "You're dying after Wamplet and Politics." -L'Bulgeur "By god... Wamp has a point." -Damien_Azreal

03-26-2004, 12:00 AM	#77
rado907	Re: Take-Two\'s profits down-blame Max Payne Stupid. Max Payne 2 was the definitive game of 2003... Perfect in every respect. And it doesn't sell... __________________ Relax and enjoy...

03-26-2004, 07:56 AM	#78
0marTheZealot	Re: Take-Two\'s profits down-blame Max Payne if you remove the graphic novel, you can beat the game in about 2 hours.... i don't know, maybe that has some affect on the game's sales mp2 was a good game, but it was too expensive (unfortunately, not everyone can justify paying 50 bucks for a couple hours of gaming) for what it offered. MP1 w/ better graphics and shorter gameplay. There was absolutely nothing different in the sequel from the first game. I love MP1, but I couldn't bring myself to buy a new copy of MP2, simply because it wasn't worth 50 bucks from every review I read. That's why I bought it used.